Waterford North Quays

Any update on this project, seems to have gone quiet?

I know there's bigger things going on in the world plus the lockdown.

Dexpat wrote:

I know that with Covid the future is uncertain, especially in retail, but I'm sure the developers have reconfigured the scheme to take account of that.

Should be fine, the main element of this project Is really about property and land speculation, which is currently going very well, as prices are rising, exactly what was intended. Retail certainly is currently in no man's land, and by looks of it, will radically change post covid, but that won't necessarily disrupt the main objectives of the project. It certainly will be interesting to the city change post construction, elements of it will certainly be amazing

Dexpat wrote: »

Your views on propery and land speculation have been well and frequently articulated in the past so I won't go there!

It certainly will make some difference even before it's up and running. Just to see it happening will give huge confidence boost to the place.

The greenway being extended up along the Quays across the bridge and linking at the site to the New Ross greenway will be a huge factor in the overall success of the scheme and the city centre. It should really allow the city to build up the tourist and leisure sector which it has fallen down on somewhat in the past.

This will add to the vibrancy of the city centre throughout the day and evening rather than just relying on retail which left John Roberts Sq empty after 6pm.

The news and star got the site area a bit wrong 8837ha’s is off by a factor of at least 100.....? Hoarding and a few tower cranes still needed to convince the majority that this is going to happen.....covid is obviously a factor in delays for visible construction activity but can hardly be used as an excuse for not for completing the legalities of sale.....?

Dexpat wrote: »

Your views on propery and land speculation have been well and frequently articulated in the past so I won't go there!

It certainly will make some difference even before it's up and running. Just to see it happening will give huge confidence boost to the place.

The greenway being extended up along the Quays across the bridge and linking at the site to the New Ross greenway will be a huge factor in the overall success of the scheme and the city centre. It should really allow the city to build up the tourist and leisure sector which it has fallen down on somewhat in the past.

This will add to the vibrancy of the city centre throughout the day and evening rather than just relying on retail which left John Roberts Sq empty after 6pm.

any idea where the new ross greenway is at, heard its been cleared now, and almost ready for development?

Dexpat wrote: »

Yeah I know. It will take cranes to convince people and I suppose I don't blame them. Waterford has had lots of potential for years and years without a huge amount to show for it. I was pretty sure that this will happen after the funding for infrastuructue was committed by the government. More waiting though.

Just from reading the N&S article, the reason for delay in completing the lagalities is that the clock starts ticking once the contract is signed. The developers have to complete it within a certain timeframe or face penalties if they don't. The Covid construction stoppage means that they can't start preparatory work, putting them behind already.

However, I'm sure that it wouldn't be a big issue to adjust the contract to reflect that so who knows. I'm sure that Michael Walsh and the council are frustrated by the delay though. Falcon have committed to giving details of commercialisation in May (pre lets and sales etc) That should tell a lot.

i truly believe the public funding should really be used to create a public infrastructure bank, and fund the works from that, its an almost perfect situation for it, i.e. an almost guaranteed method to repay the debt from the bank

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

I’m intrigued by the sound of the ‘public infrastructure bank’ .....could you elaborate on how this model of financing would work...?

ive a vague understanding to be honest, but the most important thing to remember about banking is that banks actually create the money for loans themselves, this is true for all banks, in both the public and private domain. the activity is generally called 'double entry book keeping', its effectively an accountancy activity. when a loan is required, effectively two accounts are created, the credit is simply typed into one side of the balance sheet, and the other side is the return of this money from payments, or servicing of these debts. so effectively the bank simply just creates the money, but the bank must have reserves in order to function, and must always meet these reserve requirements. the critical part of all of this is that a serious attempt must be made to pay back the loan, or face failure of the bank, and possible/probable further contagion, i.e. the accounts must balance in the long run.

in the case of the north quays, i personally think the public money already approved, should really be used to create one of these banks, apparently not cheap to start up. the public transport network, in particular the train network, is gonna be critical for the success of this project, there will be a significant increase in the capacity and usage of the train network from this project, therefore a significant increase of income stream, this increase could be used to service the new debts created from the bank. it seems daft to use debt to create new debt, but a public infrastructure bank would in fact give us back an element of financial sovereignty, a new financial institution of our own, so that we can become somewhat less reliant on the international markets, but it would be critical that this bank be run correctly, as banks, including public ones, can become bad banks very easily and quickly, and we all know where that goes! other euro group countries have public banks as such, so its all legal and above board, we re actually very good at managing our books, contrary to some opinions, we have a good history of balancing our books, and paying our debts, this would mean, we just pay some of our debts back to ourselves. obviously this bank could then be used to fund other national infrastructure projects of our choice, provided we manage it properly.

im sure theres a lot more to it than that, but thats my understanding of it anyway, scotland has recently just created one, so theyre obviously preparing for independence, they ll need it. theres loads of stuff out there on such banks, china's banks are all largely public, then theres others dotted around the world, including in the states. theres been a public banking movement in the states for a few years now, ive been keeping an eye on it, theyre making process, some politicians are starting to take notice, theyre slowly making it a reality for more, as they currently only have two.

Christy Browne wrote: »

You’ve made a grave mistake....

Based on the above explanation of the new type of bank what would or should be the next step......, Waterford council have had €100m gifted to them and lying in a bank account so do they should in theory be able to get the new bank created quite easily..?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

No, the state would own the bank, and no, it's not a gift, it's debt sitting on the national balance sheet, and needs to be carefully managed. We 're stuck in a cycle of over dependence on the international markets, bond markets, and the private sector banks, for our money supply, which is helping to cause the boom bust cycles, we 're walking straight back into another credit fuelled property boom, which is one of the main reasons of rising property prices. Such a bank may help to stop this, or at least reduce the negative effects, but it would need to be carefully managed, apparently Italy's public banks are lethal, badly managed for years. It would be extremely important to not allow politicans within an arses roar of it.

I suspect this wouldn't be very easy to achieve, as you can see, there's virtually no drive in Ireland for serious change towards our financial institutions, the whole davys situation is truly terrifying, nothing has actually changed within our financial institutions, after one of the biggest economic crashes in human history, that's just disturbing. We 're still allowing the international fire sectors(finance, insurance and real estate), dictate the narrative, and surprise surprise, we 're still experiencing the same outcomes, I.e. rising prices, we reap what we sow!

Interesting.....you obviously work in financial services/economics sector

Wanderer78 wrote: »

god no i dont, sounds like hell to be honest, just personal interest, 08 was a wake up call, but we decided to just roll over and go straight back to sleep. there are interesting ideas out there to try deal with these issues, but as you can see, theyre generally just ridiculed, until they become necessary, we re pretty much at that point now. theres no easy solutions to these issues, as far as i can see, i think all possible solutions will all be problematic in themselves, but defaulting is not an option, its actually dangerous to us all now

One slight difference between now and 2008 is that ‘austerity’ has not been mentioned yet.....government seems to be committed to spending obviously borrowed money.....if you think back to the period 2008 to 2012/13 it was all about deficit reduction/death by 1000 cuts etc....it would have been unthinkable that €100m would have been given to such a project as North Quays

Wanderer78 wrote: »

absolutely, but the idea is actually still bubbling around, if we go back down that road, we ll be in serious trouble, we need to also get over this idea of balancing budgets and running surpluses, its been well proven now that that is just dangerous behavior. you can see that this thinking is still deeply imbedded within our political and societal structures, its not gonna be easy to break it, but thankfully america is going for it, so maybe theres hope for us

One thing for sure is that your fears or opinions posted here about what will or won’t transpire will have zero bearing on what eventually occurs......if the north quays eventually turns into the mega development that a lot of people expect I doubt if the current financial mechanism will alter to what you describe above.?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Absolutely, we currently have very little influence in these outcomes, the fire sectors have become an almost uncontrollable beast, but it has become so serious now, particularly our housing issues, we 're gonna have to do something radical and fast. it's starting to have serious negative effects in every aspect of our economy and society, hitting every generation, but the younger generations the most, this has to stop, something serious has to change. our housing situation is rapidly deteriorating, and element of maturity is urgently required to deal with it, but we 're defaulting to our old ways of trickle down and rising tides, which was always nonsense anyway, it's just worse now than ever, this won't end well for us all.

I assume ‘fire sectors’ is a typo....? If not can you explain?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

thank you, but i obviously strongly disagree, im deeply alarmed by the way these treads are being handled, ive come to the conclusion there is strong interest group interference occurring in them, including politically. i appreciate your modding of the situation, but this is a public forum after all, thank you again

Haha...there is no conspiracy! People are just fed up of threads being continously dragged off topic with the same rhetoric over and over again. You're obviously passionate about this topic and more power to you, so why don't you create a seperate thread and you can talk, discuss and debate about it to your hearts content. I think the reason you won't is because you know you will be talking to yourself in there. But that level of interest should give you a clue to how others feel when they come into a thread to see if there is any news on the subject only to find 10 posts of broad economic theory that has been rehashed over and over again!!

Wanderer78 wrote: »

thank you, but i obviously strongly disagree, im deeply alarmed by the way these treads are being handled, ive come to the conclusion there is strong interest group interference occurring in them, including politically. i appreciate your modding of the situation, but this is a public forum after all, thank you again

There is no conspiracy!!

Because I'm one of the people fed up coming into threads to find you've destroyed it with the same ****e yet again so i'm sure i'm not alone! Why won't you start a new economics thread to post your thoughts and theories?