Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ireland RWC Backline

Options
1246789

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    bilston wrote: »
    He hasn't coached at a World Cup before where you play intense games every week for hopefully seven weeks. That may change his thinking a bit.

    The groups of Canada, Romania, Italy, France is easier than a 6Ns though (particularly when the game against the French is not in Paris.

    Past the groups is where it gets difficult.


  • Options
    #93
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,073 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Id imagine as close to full strength as possible starting v canada, get game over early and ring the changes early.

    That finishing team mostly starting v Romania, with squad outliers benching.

    Full strength as possible again v italy and same rotation from there.


  • Options
    #94
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    I'm hoping Payne steps it up a notch. Whilst he's done no wrong he's still the weak link in our back line actually opening up sides. We miss the maestro so much in that regards, and whilst it's nice having a back line full of 15st flankerish backs we haven't looked like moving the ball in a way that'll turn sides inside out? Is it beyond us? Absolutely not. Joe is one of the best back coaches in the business, the stuff Leinster were pulling off in their pomp wasn't flukes, his playbook is exciting, but you need 100% accuracy, confidence and commitment to pull it off.

    I'm hoping with a good 6n under his belt that Payne will look to create a bit more and the playbook will be used a bit more liberally.


  • Options
    #95
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I can't see the logic in taking Jones ahead of Earls, Fitz, Zebo, Trimble, Reid or Gilroy. They are all better players than him and are more capable of covering multiple positions off of the bench.

    I hope that Joe a gives some countenance to mixing up the back line. Payne at FB and one of Fitz or Earls in the centre with Henshaw would be a worthwhile experiment.


  • Options
    #96
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Regardless of what people think about Jones, the fact is, he's the best actual physical defender we have in the back 3 positions. That's why he is in the squad.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    That's nonsense, what are you using to justify that? I'd say Fitz is probably the hardest tackler out of that lot, not to mention Bowe and trimble would be more powerful than him in the tackle.


  • Options
    #98
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Reality


  • Options
    #99
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    I'd have Fitzgerald as the best defender of that bunch as well. Never makes a mistake and has made some huge hits over the years (the one on Howlett always stands out). He's also got great technique at the breakdown.

    I'm a big fan of Jones though. I remember how good he was coming out of Seapoint and in the early Leinster days, I'm hoping that potential didn't just disappear and Joe's persistence with him is based on some chance that he might turn into the player he looked like he was becoming at the 2009 Churchill Cup, before the injuries.


  • Options
    #100
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Jones tackles better than anyone in the back 3, to even suggest Fitz even comes close is laughable, good luck with the love in


  • Options
    #101
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I'd have Fitzgerald as the best defender of that bunch as well. Never makes a mistake and has made some huge hits over the years (the one on Howlett always stands out). He's also got great technique at the breakdown.

    I'm a big fan of Jones though. I remember how good he was coming out of Seapoint and in the early Leinster days, I'm hoping that potential didn't just disappear and Joe's persistence with him is based on some chance that he might turn into the player he looked like he was becoming at the 2009 Churchill Cup, before the injuries.

    Didn't Fitz injure himself with that hit?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,183 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Jones is in the squad because he does all the little things and does them well. He's very much a player than be a cog in a system and fit in when called upon. Doesn't have many eye catching moments but he's very much a team player which always appears to be what Schmidt values.

    There's no specific facet of his game that excels or has him in the squad, similar to Trimble. He's just a really solid performer with a low error count.


  • Options
    #103
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Wang King wrote: »
    Jones tackles better than anyone in the back 3, to even suggest Fitz even comes close is laughable, good luck with the love in

    And you were talking about reality? Fitz is good enough to be one of the best centres playing in the country. A huge part of that is down to his defensive abilities. After BOD and D'Arcy, he is probably the best tackling and jackling back around.


  • Options
    #104
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    I can't see the logic in taking Jones ahead of Earls, Fitz, Zebo, Trimble, Reid or Gilroy. They are all better players than him and are more capable of covering multiple positions off of the bench.

    I hope that Joe a gives some countenance to mixing up the back line. Payne at FB and one of Fitz or Earls in the centre with Henshaw would be a worthwhile experiment.

    They all have their negatives:
    Earls - size
    Fitz - lack of try scoring ability, made of glass
    Zebo - everything :)
    Trimble - poor kicking game, not great under high ball
    Reid - looks promising but is inexperienced
    Gilroy - defence


  • Options
    #105
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,183 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Wang King wrote: »
    Jones tackles better than anyone in the back 3, to even suggest Fitz even comes close is laughable, good luck with the love in

    I know you've a bit of a crush on Jones but Fitz is a superb tackler. Always has been. That doesn't mean Jones isn't excellent too.

    It's pretty far fetched to say it's laughable that Fitzgerald "even comes close" to Jones in defence. Many people would have Fitzgerald ahead; it's probably the strongest aspect of his game.


  • Options
    #106
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    And you were talking about reality? Fitz is good enough to be one of the best centres playing in the country. A huge part of that is down to his defensive abilities. After BOD and D'Arcy, he is probably the best tackling and jackling back around.

    Yet, Joe Schmidt sees him as a winger, not a centre. Payne & Henshaw are good defensively, but lack attacking ability. An attacking centre is what is needed, not another backrower in the centre.


  • Options
    #107
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    And you were talking about reality? Fitz is good enough to be one of the best centres playing in the country. A huge part of that is down to his defensive abilities. After BOD and D'Arcy, he is probably the best tackling and jackling back around.

    I read this post... And no....still wondering


  • Options
    #108
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Are you trying to say that Fitz ( or Earls for that matter) aren't attacking centres? From your history, I know you champion Earls in much the same way that I do Fitz. I would like to see someone else given a shot with Henshaw.


  • Options
    #109
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Wang King wrote: »
    I read this post... And no....still wondering

    Well, good for you so. No point in continuing the discussion obviously.


  • Options
    #110
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Buer wrote: »
    I know you've a bit of a crush on Jones but Fitz is a superb tackler. Always has been. That doesn't mean Jones isn't excellent too.

    It's pretty far fetched to say it's laughable that Fitzgerald "even comes close" to Jones in defence. Many people would have Fitzgerald ahead; it's probably the strongest aspect of his game.

    If tackling is the strongest aspect of Fitz's game, he's in trouble.
    One on one, there is no better tackle in the Irish back 3 options that Jones.
    He has his limitations, of course, but anyone who has ever seen him tackle knows he is superb at it, Fitz offers mountains more as an attacking option, but nope, not defensively, not even close


  • Options
    #111
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    Well, good for you so. No point in continuing the discussion obviously.

    When i read something that makes sense, maybe, until then, I'll just say no thank you


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    .ak wrote: »
    I'm hoping Payne steps it up a notch. Whilst he's done no wrong he's still the weak link in our back line actually opening up sides. We miss the maestro so much in that regards, and whilst it's nice having a back line full of 15st flankerish backs we haven't looked like moving the ball in a way that'll turn sides inside out? Is it beyond us? Absolutely not. Joe is one of the best back coaches in the business, the stuff Leinster were pulling off in their pomp wasn't flukes, his playbook is exciting, but you need 100% accuracy, confidence and commitment to pull it off.

    I'm hoping with a good 6n under his belt that Payne will look to create a bit more and the playbook will be used a bit more liberally.

    I know you're not having a dig at him but I don't think this post is very fair. We didn't play very creatively in the 6N, nobody did really, so I'm not sure singling out Payne is entirely right. Henshaw had a very strong, all-action tournament but I don't think bringing Payne into the game was something he did especially well. I was really impressed by Payne overall, I'm not going to go looking for the stats (so hopefully you'll take my word for it) but he made a deceptive amount of ground in the tournament with ball in hand and he controlled his channel in defence so well. Tbh if we're looking to dish out "blame" for lack of a better word, it should be pointed at the coaching team. We've two halfbacks who kick the ball incredibly well so we went with it.


  • Options
    #113
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I genuinely have no idea what you've been watching WK. I would rate fitz's defense as the best part of his game and he's easily the best back 3 tackler I've seen at Leinster for some time. He's textbook.


  • Options
    #114
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I genuinely have no idea what you've been watching WK. I would rate fitz's defense as the best part of his game and he's easily the best back 3 tackler I've seen at Leinster for some time. He's textbook.

    Right, lets make it easy for us.
    Why did Schmidt pick Felix for the squad, and bring him into the team when he felt it was needed?
    Some sense of misplaced loyalty? He liked the way he ran perhaps?.
    Any of those? Something else maybe?
    One on one, imo! we have nobody in the back 3 better defending our line , or in a one on one try scoring situation.
    Now Joe may not think the same as me, but he picks him


  • Options
    #115
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,183 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Wang King wrote: »
    If tackling is the strongest aspect if Fitz's game, he's in trouble

    I'm not sure if you think he's just a poor defender in that case?

    I would genuinely say his defence is best asset. People would be hard pushed to remember any significant errors off the top of their head. They notice the jinking footwork but his tackling and positioning is top class.

    He won MOTM in the do or die ECC game at Wasps this season based purely on his defence when he was shutting down anything that moved and making multiple good defensive reads; that is far from out of the ordinary.


  • Options
    #116
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Buer wrote: »
    I'm not sure if you think he's just a poor defender in that case?

    I would genuinely say his defence is best asset. People would be hard pushed to remember any significant errors off the top of their head. They notice the jinking footwork but his tackling and positioning is top class.

    He won MOTM in the do or die ECC game at Wasps this season based purely on his defence when he was shutting down anything that moved and making multiple good defensive reads; that is far from out of the ordinary.

    I don't think his defending is poor, all I'm saying, and I stick by it, is Jones is our best tackler bar none in all of our back 3 options.
    Joe has complete confidence in bringing him into a game at a point when defense is paramount, and that's a much better affirmation than I can ever give him


  • Options
    #117
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,183 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Wang King wrote: »
    Right, lets make it easy for us.
    Why did Schmidt pick Felix for the squad, and bring him into the team when he felt it was needed?
    Some sense of misplaced loyalty? He liked the way he ran perhaps?.
    Any of those? Something else maybe?
    One on one, imo! we have nobody in the back 3 better defending our line , or in a one on one try scoring situation.
    Now Joe may not think the same as me, but he picks him

    No coach picks any player for a single aspect of their game much less such an isolated item as one on one tackling where there might not be a single one for the player to make in 80 minutes.

    Jones is picked because he's a very solid performer, does all the little things well and plays intelligently.


  • Options
    #118
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Wang King wrote: »
    Right, lets make it easy for us.
    Why did Schmidt pick Felix for the squad, and bring him into the team when he felt it was needed?
    Some sense of misplaced loyalty? He liked the way he ran perhaps?.
    Any of those? Something else maybe?
    One on one, imo! we have nobody in the back 3 better defending our line , or in a one on one try scoring situation.
    Now Joe may not think the same as me, but he picks him

    I never mentioned Jones there. The only time I have mentioned him in this thread is to say he is 100% going.

    I don't even have an issue with you claiming jones is better defensively. I honestly haven't seen enough of him to know. But you have been incredibly dismissive of the notion that Fitz is in anyway good defensively and that simply doesn't fit with reality.

    Fitz doesn't play full back so he doesn't come one on one with players as often. He was absolutely supreme defending from centre in the season gone and his tackling head on is almost flawless. Whether jones would be better one on one I don't know but you're being weirdly and stupidly dismissive of Fitzgerald and I don't understand it.


  • Options
    #119
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Wang King wrote: »
    I don't think his defending is poor, all I'm saying, and I stick by it, is Jones is our best tackler bar none in all of our back 3 options.
    Joe has complete confidence in bringing him into a game at a point when defense is paramount, and that's a much better affirmation than I can ever give him

    So let me get this straight - the fact Jones doesn't start but sometimes comes on towards the end of games (he was unused in 3 of the 6N games) is meant to demonstrate he's a better defender than the guys that actually do start...?


  • Options
    #120
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Wang King wrote: »
    I don't think his defending is poor
    Wang King wrote: »
    If tackling is the strongest aspect of Fitz's game, he's in trouble.

    Doesn't exactly read that way


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #121
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Doesn't exactly read that way

    Does anyone think Fitz is picked on the wing because of his defensive ability? Was that why he was picked against Scotland, to stem the flow of the attacking threat they carried?


Advertisement