Ireland RWC Backline

total former

I've been saying this for months but a recalibration of expectations for these matches is needed in some quarters. Joe won't be bothered about new combinations or seeing what guys can do in a different position. There isn't time and there's very little point.

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

I've been saying this for months but a recalibration of expectations for these matches is needed in some quarters. Joe won't be bothered about new combinations or seeing what guys can do in a different position. There isn't time and there's very little point.

At most we'll see back-ups getting time off the bench but not a whole lot else. I would like to see Jackson get a decent bit of game time, but other than that I wouldn't be too pushed really.

smiley_face

molloyjh wrote: »

At most we'll see back-ups getting time off the bench but not a whole lot else. I would like to see Jackson get a decent bit of game time, but other than that I wouldn't be too pushed really.

Our 1st choice players are more or less decided, but we have to give a few 2nd choice players time in these matches, or we might end up regretting it if there are injuries.
Without injuries it would all be very simple, but how often do we go 4-6 matches without an injury.
We simply have to prepare for the scenario where Henshaw or Payne gets an injury, or we could end up facing France in a huge match with a new centre pairing.
Surely a run against Scotland for example with Cave and McFadden would be worth the game-time.
Henshaw and Payne could play the other 3 matches.
I do think they need time to get more cohesive, but I'd also be wary of either of them being over-used without any other options being tested out.
At the very least, the other players deserve a crack at impressing before selections are made.

Podge_irl

Cave and McFadden won't be starting without about 4 injuries. I'm sceptical of the benefit of one start in a middling warm up game (I lie, I'm not sceptical I think its worthless).

shuffol

I think we'll see another option tried at 13, possibly Earls or Fitz with Payne possibly getting a run at FB. Think we might see D'arcy starting a game also.

bilston

There is no way the 1st XV are going to play all 4 warm up games. I would have thought that just about all 41, or whatever number it is will get some minutes in the first two games, and if not the 41 then the 33 or 34 players that are in contention for the WC squad. So fringe players are bound to get a chance, even if it is just one start and maybe a couple of 30 minute bursts from the bench.

Not that any of that will change the 1st XV. I think most of us agree 14 positions are nailed down and only the left wing is open to debate. But there will unfortunately be injuries so it is important that other players get at least some game time in these next 4 weeks as some of them will be needed during the WC.

bilston

Podge_irl wrote: »

Cave and McFadden won't be starting without about 4 injuries. I'm sceptical of the benefit of one start in a middling warm up game (I lie, I'm not sceptical I think its worthless).

They are worthwhile from the point of view of getting players match fitness up to scratch.

That is really the whole point, as well as making a few Euros/Pounds for the Unions of course!

jacothelad

shuffol wrote: »

I think we'll see another option tried at 13, possibly Earls or Fitz with Payne possibly getting a run at FB. Think we might see D'arcy starting a game also.

I sincerely hope not. Two wingers - one of whom scores tries - and an over the hill, once stellar player who now has the acceleration of Mike Ross. Time to go Gordon. Despite his great history he has gone on too long - certainly in the Ireland shirt. If you want centres, use centres. It's like calling for McFadden to play there. I'd have him at 12 or 13 only if all the other actual centres had become unavailable but he has proven his worth on the wing. Fitz has played a few games in the league at 13 and has looked o.k. but let's see him do it for a season and actually be better than the other options. Earls is a good player and can do a job at 13 for Munster but when you see him on the wing, he is so much in his element. I have to admit I would have him as a starter on the wing.

phog

I can't see Darcy starting a game for us bar injury. He didn't feature for us during the 6Ns or was he injured?.

Fitz has said he's behind the rest in terms of fitness so he'll probably miss the first warm up game and possibly the Scottish game too.

shuffol

jacothelad wrote: »

I sincerely hope not. Two wingers - one of whom scores tries - and an over the hill, once stellar player who now has the acceleration of Mike Ross. Time to go Gordon. Despite his great history he has gone on too long - certainly in the Ireland shirt. If you want centres, use centres. It's like calling for McFadden to play there. I'd have him at 12 or 13 only if all the other actual centres had become unavailable but he has proven his worth on the wing. Fitz has played a few games in the league at 13 and has looked o.k. but let's see him do it for a season and actually be better than the other options. Earls is a good player and can do a job at 13 for Munster but when you see him on the wing, he is so much in his element. I have to admit I would have him as a starter on the wing.

I wouldn't have D'arcy in the squad myself but we've shag all options at 12 and I can see him being given an opportunity. I can't see Cave being involved, we'll be relying on someone from the back 3 as center cover so that would mean Earls or Fitzgerald.

Fitzgerald also played 6 games in the ERC last season and looked better than ok IMO, not sure why his try scoring record on the wing is relevant to him playing center either.

total former

shuffol wrote: »

I think we'll see another option tried at 13, possibly Earls or Fitz with Payne possibly getting a run at FB. Think we might see D'arcy starting a game also.

No one is going to play all 4 games so we'll see alternatives tried in every position.

I don't think Payne will play any at 15 simply because he's never going to do so in the RWC and he needs all the game time at 13 he can get.

wittycynic

shuffol wrote: »

I wouldn't have D'arcy in the squad myself but we've shag all options at 12 and I can see him being given an opportunity. I can't see Cave being involved, we'll be relying on someone from the back 3 as center cover so that would mean Earls or Fitzgerald.

Fitzgerald also played 6 games in the ERC last season and looked better than ok IMO, not sure why his try scoring record on the wing is relevant to him playing center either.

I really think we have little option but to view Madigan as our second choice 12 and Earls as our second choice 13. They are both international quality players with a good amount of experience in those positions at club level.

Fitzgerald is a great talent but he doesn't have a lot of centre experience and Joe does view him very much as a winger, and Fitz has admitted as much. Cave in my opinion can do a job, but I have never been seriously impressed by him and his perpetual standing as a fringe squad player in the international team suggests I'm not alone in that assessment. D'arcy is past it; a great servant who shone for a decade, but his time has finished. Past these men, we have no other serious contenders for back up centre roles.

With Madigan likely occupying the No. 22 shirt, I believe Earls should surely be included in the squad, either at left wing or at 23 to provide outside centre cover. With aerial challenges and constant breakdown battles a core part of Joe's game, I do wonder will Earls's size keep him out of the picture though.

shuffol

total former wrote: »

No one is going to play all 4 games so we'll see alternatives tried in every position.

I don't think Payne will play any at 15 simply because he's never going to do so in the RWC and he needs all the game time at 13 he can get.

I think we'll be looking at options to cover in contingency situations, as it stands Jones is backup 15 but is of limited value in a WC squad, if we're going to be looking at optimizing resources then Payne covering 15 with another center included at Jones expense may be an option.

irishbucsfan

I don't think Payne at 15 fits the way we play whereas Jones can reproduce some of Kearney's style of play. I would be surprised if we see Payne at 15 tbh.

total former

It's more that, if Kearney gets injured, shifting Payne to 15 creates another hole at 13 so it just compounds the problem.

Flipper22

Yeah, if Kearney got hurt I reckon Jones would come straight into the team. I'd be shocked if he moved Payne, think he'd start any of Zebo, Fitz, DK, Earls at fullback before he'd do that. If one of our centres get injured I'd bring in Fitz or Earls, but I wouldn't be surprised to see D'Arcy come into the picture. Id rather him than Madigan at 12 anyway.

Ardillaun

With Joe in charge, such discussions worry me a lot less than they used to. I'm confident he will be in the region of right on whom to pick for his plan, so after that it's just down to who is fit to go. I happen to not see much in Jones and feel that Zebo brings something special to attack but I won't be in my usual torment if the choices don't go my way.

smiley_face

1 week to go before Wales match in Dublin.
The backline is still up for much debate and speculation;
3rd Scrum half, 1st choice left wing, No. 23, squad cover, select Trimble though not 100%.

My current prediction for the RWC is:
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. Henshaw
13. Payne
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

21. Reddan
22. Madigan
23. Earls

Squad cover:
Marmion
Jackson
Fitzgerald
Jones

Final Wales match:
After 2 matches of experimentation would guess that against Wales we will put out a full team, but...
Would like to see 9. Marmion, 10. Jackson, 11. Fitzgerald, 12. Henshaw, 13. Earls, 14. Gilroy, 15. D Kearney,
21. Murray, 22. Sexton, 23. McFadden

Moflojo

Based on the above cliché, below is my pseudo-scientific prediction on who's going to the RWC. Each player receives a score out of ten for their current form (International form where possible) and a score out of ten based on their overall ability (Class), with the average score predicting whether they should be in the squad or not. Here goes...

SH
Murray: Form=9 Class=9 Avg=9
Reddan: Form=7 Class=9 Avg=8
Marmion: Form=8 Class=6 Avg=7
Boss: Form=5 Class=7 Avg=6

OH
Sexton: Form=8 Class=10 Avg=9
Madigan: Form=7 Class=7 Avg=7
Jackson: Form=6 Class=7 Avg=6.5

Centre
Henshaw: Form=10 Class=8 Avg=9
Earls: Form=9 Class=8 Avg=8.5
Payne: Form=9 Class=7 Avg=8
Cave: Form=8 Class=6 Avg=7
D'arcy: Form=2 Class=9 Avg=5.5

OB
Trimble: Form=7 Class=9 Avg=8
Zebo: Form=9 Class=7 Avg=8
Bowe: Form=6 Class=9 Avg=7.5
D Kearney: Form=8 Class=7 Avg=7.5
R Kearney: Form=5 Class=9 Avg=7
Fitzgerald: Form=6 Class=8 Avg=7
Jones: Form=8 Class=6 Avg=7
McFadden: Form=7 Class=6 Avg=6.5
Gilroy: Form=6 Class=6 Avg=6

The players with the lowest average score are dropped. Where players have the same average score, the player with the higher 'Class' score travels (R. Kearney vs. Fitzgerald vs. Jones). My method predicts 14 backs, with Earls and Madigan as the cover for centre.

Moflojo

Moflojo wrote: »

Based on the above cliché, below is my pseudo-scientific prediction on who's going to the RWC. Each player receives a score out of ten for their current form (International form where possible) and a score out of ten based on their overall ability (Class), with the average score predicting whether they should be in the squad or not. Here goes...

SH
Murray: Form=9 Class=9 Avg=9
Reddan: Form=7 Class=9 Avg=8
Marmion: Form=8 Class=6 Avg=7
Boss: Form=5 Class=7 Avg=6

OH
Sexton: Form=8 Class=10 Avg=9
Madigan: Form=7 Class=7 Avg=7
Jackson: Form=6 Class=7 Avg=6.5

Centre
Henshaw: Form=10 Class=8 Avg=9
Earls: Form=9 Class=8 Avg=8.5
Payne: Form=9 Class=7 Avg=8
Cave: Form=8 Class=6 Avg=7
D'arcy: Form=2 Class=9 Avg=5.5

OB
Trimble: Form=7 Class=9 Avg=8
Zebo: Form=9 Class=7 Avg=8
Bowe: Form=6 Class=9 Avg=7.5
D Kearney: Form=8 Class=7 Avg=7.5
R Kearney: Form=5 Class=9 Avg=7
Fitzgerald: Form=6 Class=8 Avg=7
Jones: Form=8 Class=6 Avg=7
McFadden: Form=7 Class=6 Avg=6.5
Gilroy: Form=6 Class=6 Avg=6

The players with the lowest average score are dropped. Where players have the same average score, the player with the higher 'Class' score travels (R. Kearney vs. Fitzgerald vs. Jones). My method predicts 14 backs, with Earls and Madigan as the cover for centre.

Some of your scores are nonsense.

Moflojo

Deleted User wrote: »

Some of your scores are nonsense.

Which ones?

Wang King

Moflojo wrote: »

Which ones?

Obviously Jones not getting 11's

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

Some of your scores are nonsense.

Well, Gilroy for one. Form? Top try scorer in the Pro12. Winner of try of the year. You gave Dave K. an 8 based on 10 minutes against a beaten and hopeless Scotland. You gave Fitz. an 8 for class. Based on what exactly?

Yeah_Right

Also what's the definition of "form"? Performance in preseason games? This year? Last season?

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Also what's the definition of "form"? Performance in preseason games? This year? Last season?

It depends when the last time your favourite players played well was

Wang King

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It depends when the last time your favourite players played well was

D'Arcy 2009?