Covid 19 PUP - Self-Employed only

Snow_White1987 · 23-07-2020 3:18pm

ATC110 wrote: »

I'd prefer if there had've been a blanket reduction to €203 per week in July - it's a generous payment in its own right and much higher than any benefits in the UK.

My issue is being put on a reduced rate despite meeting the income threshold while others remain on the higher rate.

I disagree RE blanket reductions as €203 a week if you've a mortgage and kids is nothing!

UK also offer much more seperate benefits than here so to compare is fruitless – both countries are so different!

They don't say if those on the reduced rate now will stay on this until April?

I take issue with the same as I feel I should be on the higher rate but I'm always grateful to get something at the same time. It's just being self-employed in media means there is little out there work-wise at the moment so the higher rate I could really use for even a few weeks.

Dempo1 · 23-07-2020 3:22pm

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

I disagree RE blanket reductions as €203 a week if you've a mortgage and kids is nothing!

UK also offer much more seperate benefits than here so to compare is fruitless – both countries are so different!

They don't say if those on the reduced rate now will stay on this until April?

I take issue with the same as I feel I should be on the higher rate but I'm always grateful to get something at the same time. It's just being self-employed in media means there is little out there work-wise at the moment so the higher rate I could really use for even a few weeks.

Completely agree with your disagree, pointless to compare UK with Ireland. I would hope those appealing the reduced rate will see an outcome soon. I assume no news yet? Might be good if you get my meaning. At least its positive the payments will continue

Snow_White1987 · 23-07-2020 3:26pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Completely agree with your disagree, pointless to compare UK with Ireland. I would hope those appealing the reduced rate will see an outcome soon. I assume no news yet? Might be good if you get my meaning. At least its positive the payments will continue

No news yet so that could be good but if I don't hear back before the new rate changes kick in I think I might never hear back as God knows what'll happen then!

Dempo1 · 23-07-2020 3:30pm

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

No news yet so that could be good but if I don't hear back before the new rate changes kick in I think I might never hear back as God knows what'll happen then!

I wouldn't worry too much, once appeal has been lodged they can't avoid it, obv keep all paperwork, correspondence etc

pickneary · 23-07-2020 5:44pm

Can someone explain to me what they mean The top rate of €350 down to €300 will apply to those who earned Over €300 Per week before the pandemic , does that mean Gross or Net pay ?

If a person has 14,000 net pay do they come from 350 to 300?

Dempo1 · 23-07-2020 5:47pm

pickneary wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what they mean by those who earned Over €300 Per week before the pandemic , does that mean Gross or Net pay ?

To be honest I'm unsure, I'm guessing net but there should be more clarification on this in the coming days, I say net as the PUP is a net payment if I'm making sense

ATC110 · 23-07-2020 6:22pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

That's were I might disagree, to compare UK benefits with Irelands is like apples and Oranges, the UK system offers far more generous universal credit benefits, housing etc.

Not at all - Universal Credit is incomparable to PUP as it's strictly means tested and is not payable if you have savings of over £16000. Apropos housing in ROI, one of the reasons rents are so high is due to the HAP scheme where the welfare-dependant tenant only makes a small contribution.

Dempo1 wrote: »

€203 is I accept the normal SW rate but let's not forget many are on PUP through no fault of their own, both self employed and directly employed. Many if not all have seen a serious drop in income and I suspect job opportunities are extremely limited and will be for months. Self employment also is extremely challenging as I know companies, individuals etc are very nervous at spending any money outside existing budgets. My own Job is struggling, particularly the business side with companies at a standstill re spending

I agree but my point is having only some recipients on a much lower rate than they should be has created a huge inequity.

ATC110 · 23-07-2020 6:26pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

To be honest I'm unsure, I'm guessing net but there should be more clarification on this in the coming days, I say net as the PUP is a net payment if I'm making sense

PUP is received as a gross payment with any tax liability deferred until such time as a tax return is submitted then it will be treated the same as any other income; it's not a tax-exempt payment.

torrevieja · 23-07-2020 9:11pm

ATC110 wrote: »

PUP is received as a gross payment with any tax liability deferred until such time as a tax return is submitted then it will be treated the same as any other income; it's not a tax-exempt payment.

So The top rate of €350 down to €300 will apply to those who earned Over €300 Per week before the pandemic , is Gross Pay ?

If it's not it would mean Ur net would need to be over € 15,000 ?

ATC110 · 24-07-2020 11:34am

torrevieja wrote: »

So The top rate of €350 down to €300 will apply to those who earned Over €300 Per week before the pandemic , is Gross Pay ?

If it's not it would mean Ur net would need to be over € 15,000 ?

I meant for taxation purposes

Snow_White1987 · 26-07-2020 8:24pm

I got the news today that, as a self-employed person, I won't be going back on the higher rate. Their reasoning was as follows:

As I've only been self-employed since January 2019, I haven't yet filed my first tax return as a self-employed person for 2019 (though I'm in the process of doing it now).

This naturally means there'd be no self-employment tax return for me for 2018 as I was an employee.

And as I've not filed my 2019 tax return yet, which would tell Revenue I'm officially self-employed, they still identify me as an employee on record (and also because those are the last statements they have on me there). So now, because they think I'm still an employee and there's nothing on record for me for January and February of this year in terms of any earnings (there wouldn't be, as I'm self-employed!) my income is defined as NIL and I get the lower payment.

I also have NIL self-employment earnings for 2018 as I was an employee then too, so again, the lower rate is what I get put on.

So, in short, any newly self-employed will automatically lose out which is very disappointing.

ATC110 · 26-07-2020 8:28pm

Snow_White1987, how were you contacted?

I've checked on MyWelfare but no new messages

Snow_White1987 · 26-07-2020 8:29pm

ATC110 wrote: »

Snow_White1987, how were you contacted?

I've checked on MyWelfare but no new messages

They sent me an email at 4pm today!

It looks like they have staff working weekends to try and sort out the backlog...

Dempo1 · 26-07-2020 8:34pm

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

I got the news today that, as a self-employed person, I won't be going back on the higher rate. Their reasoning was as follows:

As I've only been self-employed since January 2019, I haven't yet filed my first tax return as a self-employed person for 2019 (though I'm in the process of doing it now).

This naturally means there'd be no self-employment tax return for me for 2018 as I was an employee.

And as I've not filed my 2019 tax return yet, which would tell Revenue I'm officially self-employed, they still identify me as an employee on record (and also because those are the last statements they have on me there). So now, because they think I'm still an employee and there's nothing on record for me for January and February of this year in terms of any earnings (there wouldn't be, as I'm self-employed!) my income is defined as NIL and I get the lower payment.

I also have NIL self-employment earnings for 2018 as I was an employee then too, so again, the lower rate is what I get put on.

So, in short, any newly self-employed will automatically lose out which is very disappointing.

So sorry to hear this, very disappointing and no doubt frustrating, particularly after all the information you submitted.

HereinBray · 26-07-2020 8:46pm

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

They sent me an email at 4pm today!

It looks like they have staff working weekends to try and sort out the backlog...

Wow - that's good to hear - hopefully the backlog will be cleared soon.

Sorry to hear that you're not getting the higher payment. It's a pain - but at least you have a better idea of how you're fixed.

Did they mention anything about back payments? And when you would actually get paid?

Thanks so much for sharing the info - you're very good.

HIB

Snow_White1987 · 26-07-2020 9:34pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

So sorry to hear this, very disappointing and no doubt frustrating, particularly after all the information you submitted.

Ah thank you. It's disappointing as it seems the self-employed frequently lose out when it comes to these things but I'm exetremly grateful to get even the 203 per week for a bit longer – it all helps!

Dempo1 · 26-07-2020 9:37pm

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

Ah thank you. It's disappointing as it seems the self-employed frequently lose out when it comes to these things but I'm exetremly grateful to get even the 203 per week for a bit longer – it all helps!

Keep the faith, hopefully things will improve generally in the coming weeks, months

Snow_White1987 · 26-07-2020 9:39pm

HereinBray wrote: »

Wow - that's good to hear - hopefully the backlog will be cleared soon.

Sorry to hear that you're not getting the higher payment. It's a pain - but at least you have a better idea of how you're fixed.

Did they mention anything about back payments? And when you would actually get paid?

Thanks so much for sharing the info - you're very good.

HIB

They mentioned nothing about back payments (apart from a week I'm owed at the beginning of April I wouldn't be in receipt of any others) but, sadly, I don't imagine any back payments will realistically be sorted until closer to the PUP being finished – at least, that's what I was told on the PUP helpline.

Especially as they'll have three more sets of rate cuts to get through once September hits under the new PUP regulations! I assume they are trying to hurry the self-employed backlog along so all that doesn't overlap as it'll get very messy.

I would love to know if those on the €203 will stay on that for the forseeable though? That's what they don't say, there's only different rates announced if you're on the €350...

26-07-2020 10:42pm

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

They mentioned nothing about back payments (apart from a week I'm owed at the beginning of April I wouldn't be in receipt of any others) but, sadly, I don't imagine any back payments will realistically be sorted until closer to the PUP being finished – at least, that's what I was told on the PUP helpline.

Especially as they'll have three more sets of rate cuts to get through once September hits under the new PUP regulations! I assume they are trying to hurry the self-employed backlog along so all that doesn't overlap as it'll get very messy.

I would love to know if those on the €203 will stay on that for the forseeable though? That's what they don't say, there's only different rates announced if you're on the €350...

Sorry to hear that.

Based on the seriousness of the situation I believe that they will let people on the lower payment remain as they are, moving them to a social welfare payment would balloon the unemployment statistics and many would end up being casualties of this situation and become long-term unemployed.

amd1982 · 27-07-2020 8:32pm

Has anybody heard of or had a successful appeal yet ? Still no reply to emails here

HereinBray · 27-07-2020 8:47pm

amd1982 wrote: »

Has anybody heard of or had a successful appeal yet ? Still no reply to emails here

Not a peep - and I sent in my 2018 evidence 3 weeks ago today. I've sent a couple of reminders - and got one auto response on the 16th.

Thanks

HIB

27-07-2020 11:07pm

HereinBray wrote: »

Not a peep - and I sent in my 2018 evidence 3 weeks ago today. I've sent a couple of reminders - and got one auto response on the 16th.

Thanks

HIB

Same, mine went in on Friday 3rd.

Snow_White1987 · 27-07-2020 11:52pm

amd1982 wrote: »

Has anybody heard of or had a successful appeal yet ? Still no reply to emails here

I heard back but it was a no!

I don't know anyone who actually received a successful appeal yet.

amd1982 · 28-07-2020 9:14am

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

I heard back but it was a no!

I don't know anyone who actually received a successful appeal yet.

So sorry to hear that after all the waiting

ATC110 · 28-07-2020 10:45am

I appealed by registered post on 2nd July. No reply yet

amd1982 · 28-07-2020 11:41am

ATC110 wrote: »

I appealed by registered post on 2nd July. No reply yet

Hopefully we hear soon it’s ridiculous at this stage helpline haven’t a clue either don’t know what it’s there at all

Dempo1 · 28-07-2020 11:44am

amd1982 wrote: »

Hopefully we hear soon it’s ridiculous at this stage helpline haven’t a clue either don’t know what it’s there at all

Following another thread, a poster just said they applied for PUP early June, just got approved from the date applied, only one week payment though , seems the back dated issue is still not resolved even for new claimants, it's shocking

Snow_White1987 · 28-07-2020 5:48pm

amd1982 wrote: »

So sorry to hear that after all the waiting

Thanks, I wasn't too surprised.

They needed a self-employed tax return for 2018 and, as I only became self-employed in 2019, I automatically lost out (as will all newly self-employed!).

It seems unfair but they seem to be targeting those on PUP/self-employed which we know know is true from what's been reported in the news.

mystic · 29-07-2020 12:59am

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

Thanks, I wasn't too surprised.

They needed a self-employed tax return for 2018 and, as I only became self-employed in 2019, I automatically lost out (as will all newly self-employed!).

It seems unfair but they seem to be targeting those on PUP/self-employed which we know know is true from what's been reported in the news.

I was watching the Minister (Heather Humphreys) in the second stage debate earlier tonight. She said the Department would accept 2019 tax returns for self-employed people instead of 2018 if 2019 was more favourable.

It was in part when she was addressing the concerns of opposition TDs. It will be online.

Hope this helps

mystic · 29-07-2020 1:17am

mystic wrote: »

I was watching the Minister (Heather Humphreys) in the second stage debate earlier tonight. She said the Department would accept 2019 tax returns for self-employed people instead of 2018 if 2019 was more favourable.

It was in part when she was addressing the concerns of opposition TDs. It will be online.

Hope this helps

Found a link. https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2020-07-28/43/
Scroll to the end

HereinBray · 29-07-2020 3:53pm

Hi all,

Latest update.

Called the helpline - they could see that my application had been disallowed on the 30th of June with no further updates on my account. Even though I had sent of proof of payment etc - and that my S contributions were fully visible.

The (very nice and helpful) person on the phone suggested that I submit my application again. She took the time to make sure that I was going to the correct place on the website etc. She also suggested calling again on Friday to make sure that everything looked ok.

So - anyone who is still waiting for their initial payment - I would suggest giving them a buzz on Phone: 1890 800 024. No harm.

Best of luck

HIB

HereinBray · 29-07-2020 4:41pm

HereinBray wrote: »

Hi all,

Latest update.

Called the helpline - they could see that my application had been disallowed on the 30th of June with no further updates on my account. Even though I had sent of proof of payment etc - and that my S contributions were fully visible.

The (very nice and helpful) person on the phone suggested that I submit my application again. She took the time to make sure that I was going to the correct place on the website etc. She also suggested calling again on Friday to make sure that everything looked ok.

So - anyone who is still waiting for their initial payment - I would suggest giving them a buzz on Phone: 1890 800 024. No harm.

Best of luck

HIB

(Yet) Another update

Just got a response to my mail sending off my PRSI payment backup (July 7th) stating that my claim has been awarded and I'll get paid next week. (Happy Dance)

I've asked the question about back payments and will update as I hear.

Thanks and good luck everyone

HIB

Dempo1 · 29-07-2020 4:46pm

HereinBray wrote: »

(Yet) Another update

Just got a response to my mail sending off my PRSI payment backup (July 7th) stating that my claim has been awarded and I'll get paid next week. (Happy Dance)

I've asked the question about back payments and will update as I hear.

Thanks and good luck everyone

HIB

Delighted for you, well done

More good news, government getting a kicking over targeting PUP recepients at airports, good day all round

HereinBray · 29-07-2020 4:53pm

HereinBray wrote: »

(Yet) Another update

Just got a response to my mail sending off my PRSI payment backup (July 7th) stating that my claim has been awarded and I'll get paid next week. (Happy Dance)

I've asked the question about back payments and will update as I hear.

Thanks and good luck everyone

HIB

Me again - they don't have a date when arrears will be paid - but they are showing on the system - so once they have the date they will be paid.

Thanks guys.

HIB

Snow_White1987 · 29-07-2020 5:52pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Delighted for you, well done

More good news, government getting a kicking over targeting PUP recepients at airports, good day all round

This is great news!

Did you get awarded the higher amount?

Snow_White1987 · 29-07-2020 5:53pm

HereinBray wrote: »

Me again - they don't have a date when arrears will be paid - but they are showing on the system - so once they have the date they will be paid.

Thanks guys.

HIB

Is this arrears for the PUP rate change or general PUP arrears?

Snow_White1987 · 29-07-2020 5:58pm

mystic wrote: »

I was watching the Minister (Heather Humphreys) in the second stage debate earlier tonight. She said the Department would accept 2019 tax returns for self-employed people instead of 2018 if 2019 was more favourable.

It was in part when she was addressing the concerns of opposition TDs. It will be online.

Hope this helps

Thanks so much, but given that it took them a month to get back to me, I’m not sure it’s worth re-submitting it is worth the hassle. I read they’ll be looking at all PUP claims again in September anyhow to try and save millions of euro!

I can’t help but feel being on the PUP from now will just cause issues, given what’s in the news of late.

I’m filing my 2019 tax in the next couple of weeks anyhow (my accountant is working on it now), just to have it done so that I’m not caught out with tax again!

HereinBray · 29-07-2020 7:26pm

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

This is great news!

Did you get awarded the higher amount?

They didn't say - I'll let you know when it hits the bank account (fingers crossed!)

HereinBray · 29-07-2020 7:27pm

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

Is this arrears for the PUP rate change or general PUP arrears?

For me - it's the general arrears - I haven't received anything at all yet.

29-07-2020 7:35pm

HereinBray wrote: »

(Yet) Another update

Just got a response to my mail sending off my PRSI payment backup (July 7th) stating that my claim has been awarded and I'll get paid next week. (Happy Dance)

I've asked the question about back payments and will update as I hear.

Thanks and good luck everyone

HIB

Happy days! Hopefully you get the back money quick enough.

ATC110 · 30-07-2020 5:08pm

Received a written reply today, postmarked Waterford, to my request for a review of the weekly rate.

The outcome of the review is I will remain on the lower rate.

It explicitly states "under PUP rating rules, self-employed incomes can only be examined in respect of the 2018 year and the income figures used by the Department for PUP (and all other schemes) is always the figure after capital allowances and deductible business expenses".

There is no return address on the letter and it's signed the "PUP Rerate Team".

There is also no invitation to submit 2019 tax return details.

Has anyone had a similar letter or have they been invited to submit 2019 details?

Dempo1 · 30-07-2020 5:10pm

ATC110 wrote: »

Received a written reply today, postmarked Waterford, to my request for a review of the weekly rate.

The outcome of the review is I will remain on the lower rate.

It explicitly states "under PUP rating rules, self-employed incomes can only be examined in respect of the 2018 year and the income figures used by the Department for PUP (and all other schemes) is always the figure after capital allowances and deductible business expenses".

There is no return address on the letter and it's signed the "PUP Rerate Team".

There is also no invitation to submit 2019 tax return details.

Has anyone had a similar letter or have they been invited to submit 2019 details?

As far as I know, permitting 2019 returns is only being considered by government, there's been no decision on this.

mystic · 30-07-2020 5:27pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

As far as I know, permitting 2019 returns is only being considered by government, there's been no decision on this.

That's not what the Minister said in the Dáil debate on Tuesday. Perhaps the letter was written before the Minister spoke. It's quite possible the relevant sections haven't been informed of the changes yet.

Dempo1 · 30-07-2020 5:30pm

mystic wrote: »

That's not what the Minister said in the Dáil debate on Tuesday. Perhaps the letter was written before the Minister spoke. It's quite possible the relevant sections haven't been informed of the changes yet.

You'll need to confirm this but this is only being considered but not agreed on or finalised, if there's something I've missed, apologies but I'm pretty sure nothing has changed.

Just went through all uodates on the website, updated 27 July & 30 July, no changes re 2018

30-07-2020 8:42pm

ATC110 wrote: »

Received a written reply today, postmarked Waterford, to my request for a review of the weekly rate.

The outcome of the review is I will remain on the lower rate.

It explicitly states "under PUP rating rules, self-employed incomes can only be examined in respect of the 2018 year and the income figures used by the Department for PUP (and all other schemes) is always the figure after capital allowances and deductible business expenses".

There is no return address on the letter and it's signed the "PUP Rerate Team".

There is also no invitation to submit 2019 tax return details.

Has anyone had a similar letter or have they been invited to submit 2019 details?

Sorry to hear that. I have an idea how you feel, my start up costs for 2018 were monstrous. The money still has to be earned even if it is tax deductible and it's grossly unfair that it isn't included.

I'll tell ya, I actually considered applying for jobs today. It's a funny one, a job feels secure and you are paid on a regular basis but it isn't much more secure than being self-employed. The only real difference in terms of security is the pain the self-employed go through developing their business.

Frostybrew · 30-07-2020 9:20pm

ATC110 wrote: »

It explicitly states "under PUP rating rules, self-employed incomes can only be examined in respect of the 2018 year and the income figures used by the Department for PUP (and all other schemes) is always the figure after capital allowances and deductible business expenses".

If this is the case, then it should work both ways. Any self employed person should be able to continue receiving the PUP while working, until the amount of their capital allowances and expenses has been reached.

mystic · 31-07-2020 12:47pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

You'll need to confirm this but this is only being considered but not agreed on or finalised, if there's something I've missed, apologies but I'm pretty sure nothing has changed.

Just went through all uodates on the website, updated 27 July & 30 July, no changes re 2018

There's an update.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c4828-self-employed-and-the-pandemic-unemployment-payment/

ATC110 · 31-07-2020 4:01pm

mystic wrote: »

There's an update.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c4828-self-employed-and-the-pandemic-unemployment-payment/

It doesn't mention whether the increased payment would be backdated or not

HereinBray · 31-07-2020 5:13pm

HereinBray wrote: »

(Yet) Another update

Just got a response to my mail sending off my PRSI payment backup (July 7th) stating that my claim has been awarded and I'll get paid next week. (Happy Dance)

I've asked the question about back payments and will update as I hear.

Thanks and good luck everyone

HIB

The plot thickens!

Got a refusal email from the second application I made yesterday - no record of PRSI etc etc. When I log into my Welfare I can only see the disallowed claim.

This is nuts. I've mailed the person who advised that my original claim was allowed.

Have a nice long weekend!

HIB

Dempo1 · 31-07-2020 5:27pm

HereinBray wrote: »

The plot thickens!

Got a refusal email from the second application I made yesterday - no record of PRSI etc etc. When I log into my Welfare I can only see the disallowed claim.

This is nuts. I've mailed the person who advised that my original claim was allowed.

Have a nice long weekend!

HIB

Confused, approved and then disallowed??

Covid 19 PUP - Self-Employed only

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