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Covid-19 likely to be man made

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    #932
    thecretinhop
    Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭thecretinhop


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9632921/Is-Patient-Su-Covids-Patient-Zero-asks-IAN-BIRRELL.html

    still no proof eh Km?


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    #933
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Riiiigtht. There was a lot of talk about how science can show us that virus jumped species most likely in wuhan wet market and blaming it particularly on Chinese culinary special - bat soup.
    Now it appears Wuhan lab was behind and not wet market chefs.
    Since Trump came with it it was dismissed as rambling without evidence but some extremely intelligent board posters may overlooked simple fact that some of the evidence they so desperately demanded may have been classified.


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    #934
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    thecretinhop wrote: »
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9632921/Is-Patient-Su-Covids-Patient-Zero-asks-IAN-BIRRELL.html

    still no proof eh Km?

    No. There is still no proof.

    Are you just going to keep dumping links from sensationalist websites and run away before actually defending them?


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    #935
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Riiiigtht. There was a lot of talk about how science can show us that virus jumped species most likely in wuhan wet market and blaming it particularly on Chinese culinary special - bat soup.
    You keep claiming this is what people are arguing. It's a misrepresentation.
    If we were doing the same to you, you'd be whinging non-stop.

    Please show one example of any one here claiming this.
    If you can't, please don;t just ignore this question. Just admit that you can't.
    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Now it appears Wuhan lab was behind and not wet market chefs.
    Since Trump came with it it was dismissed as rambling without evidence but some extremely intelligent board posters may overlooked simple fact that some of the evidence they so desperately demanded may have been classified.
    What evidence did Trump have access to?
    Was this the same kind of evidence he used when he claimed that the virus wasn't going to be a big deal? Was this the same kind of evidence he used when he claimed injecting bleach would cure it?


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    #936
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    King Mob wrote: »
    You keep claiming this is what people are arguing. It's a misrepresentation.
    If we were doing the same to you, you'd be whinging non-stop.

    Ye do this constantly in this forum..


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    #937
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ye do this constantly in this forum..
    You're welcome to show this.
    This accusation has been made many times, and either no one has supported it or it's been shown to be false.

    Or perhaps you can pull up Patnor for it since it's something that he's just done.
    Can you point to any examples of anyone here " blaming it particularly on Chinese culinary special - bat soup"?


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    #938
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    King Mob wrote: »
    No. There is still no proof.

    Are you just going to keep dumping links from sensationalist websites and run away before actually defending them?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

    Quote: Dr. Sørensen and British Professor Angus Dalgleish said initial attempts to publish their findings were rejected by major scientific journals

    And John Cena apologises to the Chinese communist party for defending taiwan. He had no problem getting published.

    But still none dare call it a conspiracy.

    <mod snip>


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    #939
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    pearcider wrote: »
    Quote: Dr. Sørensen and British Professor Angus Dalgleish said initial attempts to publish their findings were rejected by major scientific journals
    Ok. And how do you know this is actually true?
    Do you just believe everything you are told by the mainstream media?

    What journals did they submit the papers to? What reasons did the journals give to reject them? How do you know all of those reasons are false?
    pearcider wrote: »
    And John Cena apologises to the Chinese communist party.
    Yes, noted virologist John Cena...

    What has this to do with anything?
    pearcider wrote: »
    But still none dare call it a conspiracy.
    Ok. You believe there's a conspiracy.
    What is it?

    Are you claiming that China somehow controls all scientific journals as well as professional wrestling?

    <mod snip>


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    #940
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    It’s all there in the paper. Of course even a fool could see The Chinese communist party had the means and the motive to launch a bio weapon against america following trumps trade war which was doing incredible damage to their economy. At the end of the day, the whole thing stinks. It came from the labs of the WIV (labs that the CDC built over the protests of the french) and their communist pals in the WHO and the CDC covered it up. But it’s a conspiracy. <mod snip>


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    #941
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    pearcider wrote: »
    It’s all there in the paper.
    No, it's not contained in that link. If it was, you'd be quoting it directly and in full to rub it in my face.
    The paper is not actually out yet, nor would it actually contain any of that information either.
    What's happening here is that you read this claim (in a mainstream media source) and just believed it without question. You did nothing to verify it. You just accepted it was true because it lines up with your conspiracy theory.
    pearcider wrote: »
    Of course even a fool could see The Chinese communist party had the means and the motive to launch a bio weapon against america following trumps trade war which was doing incredible damage to their economy.
    Ok. So you believe that the conspiracy is that the Chinese government created and released this virus to get at America.
    They did this by releasing it in the China and in a way that makes it obvious it was them?
    pearcider wrote: »
    At the end of the day, the whole thing stinks. It came from the labs of the WIV (labs that the CDC built over the protests of the french) and their communist pals in the WHO and the CDC covered it up. But it’s a conspiracy.
    Ok. So also, the WHO and CDC and WWE are all controlled by the communists.
    How is this control achieved?
    <mod snip>


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    #942
    alrightjack89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13 ✭alrightjack89


    Reading through this thread is quite sad

    Every single conversation is killed in its tracks by a poster with his fact checka, that is replying to every post

    Can he not let the conspiracy theory guys talk freely without interrupting and go to coronavirus threads where that head in sand behavior is lauded and appreciated

    Especially now that lab leak is gaining traction in msm


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    #943
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,075 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    alrightjack89 wrote: »
    Reading through this thread is quite sad

    Every single conversation is killed in its tracks by a poster with his fact checka, that is replying to every post

    Can he not let the conspiracy theory guys talk freely without interrupting and go to coronavirus threads where that head in sand behavior is lauded and appreciated

    Especially now that lab leak is gaining traction in msm

    We saw in January 6th that allowing conspiracy theories go unchecked becomes a very dangerous thing and can lead to gullible people doing dangerous things.

    Do you think people pushing conspiracy theories should not be bound to prove what they are saying??

    Maybe all conspiracy theory threads should be in the sci-fi forum then?


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    #944
    Trigger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,538 ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    Mod: back on topic, if you think a post is breaking the charter report it. Leave the moderation to the mods


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    #945
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    We saw in January 6th that allowing conspiracy theories go unchecked becomes a very dangerous thing and can lead to gullible people doing dangerous things.

    Do you think people pushing conspiracy theories should not be bound to prove what they are saying??

    Maybe all conspiracy theory threads should be in the sci-fi forum then?


    It’s only considered a conspiracy theory if the idea is not supported by government.

    The US arming Muslim fanatics, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, all conspiracy theories that are rarely referenced but they were conspiracy theories.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #946
    Detritus70
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    I'm don't even have to read this thread or the OP to say this:
    Bollocks.


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    #947
    athlone573
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭athlone573


    Persuasive article on medium.com here :

    https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038

    I think it's fair to say we don't know whether covid was man-made. Even Biden's administration are still looking into it.


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    #948
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    athlone573 wrote: »
    Persuasive article on medium.com here :

    https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038

    I think it's fair to say we don't know whether covid was man-made. Even Biden's administration are still looking into it.

    Yes and nice to see him give a shout out to some members of drastic. I'm still curious about the paper that described some of the early patients...

    https://peerj.com/articles/10246/

    Put it this way, it could be helpful (or not?) to know in advance of next winter the actual origin of covid19.


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    #949
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,793 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    alrightjack89 wrote: »
    Reading through this thread is quite sad

    Every single conversation is killed in its tracks by a poster with his fact checka, that is replying to every post

    Can he not let the conspiracy theory guys talk freely without interrupting and go to coronavirus threads where that head in sand behavior is lauded and appreciated

    Especially now that lab leak is gaining traction in msm

    Translation: "This poster keeps asking perfectly straightforward and rational questions that challenge other poster's views on a public discussion forum, that is not on"


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    #950
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,793 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    athlone573 wrote: »
    Persuasive article on medium.com here :

    https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038

    It's a blog, and the writer is controversial
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Wade

    The consensus of virologists and scientists is that the virus is natural, so they were generally ruling out that the virus was man-made.

    Not that a natural virus could have escaped a laboratory.


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    #951
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,495 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Where the theory falls through for me is why a bio weapon would be created that is relatively mild..with a pretty select at risk group. Why would you make a weapon that kills senior citizens with health issues. Not the most effective way to cripple a country really is it?


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    #952
    alrightjack89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13 ✭alrightjack89


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Where the theory falls through for me is why a bio weapon would be created that is relatively mild..with a pretty select at risk group. Why would you make a weapon that kills senior citizens with health issues. Not the most effective way to cripple a country really is it?

    Who's talking about bio weapons to destroy countries?

    The hypothesis is it leaked accidently from a Wuhan based lab who studied bat viruses and played around with them to make them more infectious, which happens in labs around the world. The Swiss even proved it when a Swiss lab made the first synthetic clone of sarscov2 in a lab. All that is a very realistic hypothesis

    No one is saying it's a bio weapon or we are at war or it was released intentionally


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    #953
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,793 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Where the theory falls through for me is why a bio weapon would be created that is relatively mild..with a pretty select at risk group. Why would you make a weapon that kills senior citizens with health issues. Not the most effective way to cripple a country really is it?

    You can make up any answer you want, just think like a conspiracy theorist.

    e.g. the virus was deliberately created by the Chinese to impact the world economically, in order to give them an economic boost. They knew, being prepared, they would take a lesser economic hit than anyone else. And that's precisely what happened, they locked down very quick, and were back to almost full steam before most other countries.

    Any appeal to motive will do


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    #954
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,793 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    alrightjack89 wrote: »
    Who's talking about bio weapons to destroy countries?

    Conspiracy theorists are. It's also a "scam", a conspiracy by all world governments to destroy their economies and install "Communism", "Fascism", or hybrid of both, etc.


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    #955
    alrightjack89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13 ✭alrightjack89


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Translation: "This poster keeps asking perfectly straightforward and rational questions that challenge other poster's views on a public discussion forum, that is not on"

    The other poster keeps using fact checka to close the arguements , with fact checka being wrong in itself.He will then use some prestige msm articles who no longer report news or science, they're just there to control a narrative to close the arguement.

    The virus most likely came from a lab, but fact checka will say that's wrong, with no proof, just going on past coronaviruses and few hand selected virologists to back them up.

    Alternative media is the only way forward, more and more are switching off their TVs and coming over, that's what I am seeing anyway.


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    #956
    alrightjack89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13 ✭alrightjack89


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Conspiracy theorists are. It's also a "scam", a conspiracy by all world governments to destroy their economies and install "Communism", "Fascism", or hybrid of both, etc.

    Your stereotyping now


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    #957
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,075 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    alrightjack89 wrote: »
    The other poster keeps using fact checka to close the arguements , with fact checka being wrong in itself.He will then use some prestige msm articles who no longer report news or science, they're just there to control a narrative to close the arguement.

    The virus most likely came from a lab, but fact checka will say that's wrong, with no proof, just going on past coronaviruses and few hand selected virologists to back them up.

    Alternative media is the only way forward, more and more are switching off their TVs and coming over, that's what I am seeing anyway.

    Biden has given his guys 90 days to come back with a report... Why not wait to see how that goes?

    Also, there's a big difference between "it came from a lab" and "it was man made"... Which is the conspiracy here?


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    #958
    alrightjack89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13 ✭alrightjack89


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Biden has given his guys 90 days to come back with a report... Why not wait to see how that goes?

    Also, there's a big difference between "it came from a lab" and "it was man made"... Which is the conspiracy here?

    If it came from a lab it probably was man made with them peforming gain of function research on it.

    If it just came from a lab and they didn't modify it, how did they find it and how did it not infect people before they found it, something as contagious as Covid that occured in nature and was found by a lab with no modification is like finding gold on Mars

    What's Biden going to find out? The man couldn't find his dentures these days, he will be lucky if he makes it 90 days himself.


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    #959
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,793 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    alrightjack89 wrote: »
    The other poster keeps using fact checka to close the arguements , with fact checka being wrong in itself.He will then use some prestige msm articles who no longer report news or science, they're just there to control a narrative to close the arguement.

    I don't understand this paragraph.
    The virus most likely came from a lab, but fact checka will say that's wrong, with no proof, just going on past coronaviruses and few hand selected virologists to back them up.

    There is no credible evidence the virus was man-made, the consensus of virologists and scientists is that it is natural.

    There is no credible evidence that the virus escaped for a lab, however that hypothesis can't be ruled out.
    Alternative media is the only way forward, more and more are switching off their TVs and coming over, that's what I am seeing anyway.

    Confirmation bias.

    People with extreme beliefs will gravitate towards anything that validates those beliefs. Ergo we have "alternative media" which exists due to demand.


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    #960
    alrightjack89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13 ✭alrightjack89


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I don't understand this paragraph.



    There is no credible evidence the virus was man-made, the consensus of virologists and scientists is that it is natural.

    There is no credible evidence that the virus escaped for a lab, however that hypothesis can't be ruled out.



    Confirmation bias.

    People with extreme beliefs will gravitate towards anything that validates those beliefs. Ergo we have "alternative media" which exists due to demand.

    Where is the evidence it came from nature?


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    #961
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,793 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    alrightjack89 wrote: »
    Where is the evidence it came from nature?

    Virologists and experts have studied the virus and many have concluded they see no "tell-tale" signs of man-made manipulation. So that means the current scientific consensus is that the virus is natural. Not man-made.

    Moving on from that, there are hundreds of coronaviruses, most of which circulate in animals. So far 6 have made the jump to humans. Bats in China alone carry more than 400 Coronaviruses. So it would be rational to conclude there's a high possibility that the disease, like the others, was transmitted from an animal to human. The host animal has not been found yet so this cannot be confirmed.

    Likewise, there's a possibility it could have been accidentally leaked from a lab while being studied. There's no credible evidence for this, but it cannot be ruled out.


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