Principal Officer competition 2019

tea and coffee · 13-09-2019 8:12am #1

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/index.php?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&Itemid=263&cid=108181&campaignId=19208306

Closing date 3rd October.

hardybuck · 13-09-2019 10:05am

tea and coffee wrote: »

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/index.php?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&Itemid=263&cid=108181&campaignId=19208306

Closing date 3rd October.

No candidate information booklet or advertising date is a little odd?

Bowiegal · 13-09-2019 10:12am

hardybuck wrote: »

No candidate information booklet or advertising date is a little odd?

Application form is available to download

GBCS · 13-09-2019 10:13am

Is there a 500 word limit to ALL questions or just the supplementary information one? Unclear!

GBCS · 13-09-2019 10:14am

No information on the process either- odd!

myk · 13-09-2019 11:42am

Any indication on whether this competition includes the Diplomatic Stream in DFAT and Higher Principal Officers?

Maybenever · 13-09-2019 2:05pm

Noting the thread.

Seems different from the last time? No regions? All a bit unclear at the moment.

myk · 15-09-2019 11:31am

myk wrote: »

Any indication on whether this competition includes the Diplomatic Stream in DFAT and Higher Principal Officers?

I've looked at both application forms. In 2017 it referred to Principal Officers and Counselors in DFAT. In the application form for this competition is only refers to Principal Officers. So I assume the DFAT Diplomatic Stream is excluded from this competition.

15-09-2019 2:23pm

myk wrote: »

Any indication on whether this competition includes the Diplomatic Stream in DFAT and Higher Principal Officers?

Just heard about this and will be applying... first time applicant to the CS. :eek:

From what I've read the top 60 applicants from this application and existing CS can apply for the Higher Principal Officers.

Then again, I don't know the difference between a PO and HPO

Riskymove · 16-09-2019 11:01am

Deleted User wrote: »

From what I've read the top 60 applicants from this application and existing CS can apply for the Higher Principal Officers.

Yes top 60 and existing Principal Officers can apply in due course for PO Higher, it was the same last time

It is an odd criteria but still in place ( as you need a year as PO to apply but can apply if in top 60)

PO Higher generally get assigned to Departments of Finance, Public Expenditure or Taoiseach

16-09-2019 11:20am

Riskymove wrote: »

PO Higher generally get assigned to Departments of Finance, Public Expenditure or Taoiseach

Thanks, but aren't they on the same payscale, is it just the kudos of working in the premier departments?

And finally, do we know how far down the panel they went last time in filling positions (will save me from reading the other thread

)

hardybuck · 16-09-2019 12:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks, but aren't they on the same payscale, is it just the kudos of working in the premier departments?

And finally, do we know how far down the panel they went last time in filling positions (will save me from reading the other thread )

No, different payscales.

I think they went to 40 or 50 in the non higher scale panel last time, and had a panel of 10-12 on the higher scale, over a two year timeframe.

16-09-2019 12:30pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I think they went to 40 or 50 in the non higher scale panel last time, and had a panel of 10-12 on the higher scale, over a two year timeframe.

Very interesting - thanks.

Kagi · 16-09-2019 1:04pm

myk wrote: »

I've looked at both application forms. In 2017 it referred to Principal Officers and Counselors in DFAT. In the application form for this competition is only refers to Principal Officers. So I assume the DFAT Diplomatic Stream is excluded from this competition.

Yes, no reference to DFAT in this competition. It might be worth asking PAS for clarification though.

Riskymove · 16-09-2019 1:13pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I think they went to 40 or 50 in the non higher scale panel last time, .

40 or 50 were placed but they went down to 70s or 80s on the panel to get to them

there are many still on the panel who are waiting for regional locations

Irishder · 17-09-2019 11:36am

Applied for this myself. First time applying for a public job. My background is manufacturing and lean so not sure if my skills are transferable.

Have a bachelors in Electronic Engineering, a HDIP in Business Management and a Masters in Business.

Would these kind of qualifications and experience count for much?

17-09-2019 11:42am

Anybody any ideas how many externals made it through to the HPO level from an external application.

Maybenever · 17-09-2019 1:55pm

Irishder wrote: »

Applied for this myself. First time applying for a public job. My background is manufacturing and lean so not sure if my skills are transferable.

Have a bachelors in Electronic Engineering, a HDIP in Business Management and a Masters in Business.

Would these kind of qualifications and experience count for much?

I would say yes generally, but it all depends on specifics of course and how you present them. How much you know about the CS will factor, I got quizzed on it last time out.

The lean stuff could be spun, my own view is that PM skills are somewhat lacking (of course it will depend on the individual). You'll have to get your thinking hat on as to how you present it in the context of the CS functions.

As for the Q above on externals, I think 8 in total went on the general panel. No idea what happened with the HPO.

17-09-2019 2:15pm

Maybenever wrote: »

I think 8 in total went on the general panel.

8 out of 160(ish) (5%) :eek:

Riskymove · 17-09-2019 3:11pm

9% of the successful applicants were private sector

but apparently there was a very low application rate also

there were only 12 people put on the PO1 panel so I wouldn't imagine too many were external

hardybuck · 17-09-2019 5:31pm

Aside from some technical roles, I think PO is a difficult level to join the organisation at.

Perhaps someone who has been in an NGO, or someone like IBEC that's lobbying Government, might find it easier.

Revenue is another that doesn't have a Minister and isn't embroiled in political matters to the same extent.

Otherwise you're very likely to be embroiled in Ministerial interaction and in and out of the Sec Gen's office like a yo-yo.

17-09-2019 6:07pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Aside from some technical roles, I think PO is a difficult level to join the organisation at.

Perhaps someone who has been in an NGO, or someone like IBEC that's lobbying Government, might find it easier.

Revenue is another that doesn't have a Minister and isn't embroiled in political matters to the same extent.

Otherwise you're very likely to be embroiled in Ministerial interaction and in and out of the Sec Gen's office like a yo-yo.

It's okay, I'm covered. I've see a few episodes of 'Yes Minister'.

hardybuck · 17-09-2019 6:24pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's okay, I'm covered. I've see a few episodes of 'Yes Minister'.

Eh, yeah - you should be fine...you could mention that at interview.

William72 · 18-09-2019 8:53am

I notice that there's no regional preference section in the application form. Is this unusual? (this is my first PO application). Also what is the implication of that for those with a preference for a regional (i.e. non-Dublin) post? If you're offered a Dublin based post from your place in the panel and turn it down - is that it - you're done? Thanks in advance.

GBCS · 18-09-2019 9:06am

Does anyone know the selection process for this competition? Ie will it follow and standard steps including online tests to sift?

Riskymove · 18-09-2019 10:17am

GBCS wrote: »

Does anyone know the selection process for this competition? Ie will it follow and standard steps including online tests to sift?

the process is set out in the booklet attached to the ad

Riskymove · 18-09-2019 10:19am

William72 wrote: »

I notice that there's no regional preference section in the application form. Is this unusual? (this is my first PO application). Also what is the implication of that for those with a preference for a regional (i.e. non-Dublin) post? If you're offered a Dublin based post from your place in the panel and turn it down - is that it - you're done? Thanks in advance.

The booklet says most jobs are expected to be in Dublin. That and the fact that people remain on the existing panel for regions would imply that there is very little scope for regional jobs from this panel

I would imagine if you take a job in Dublin then you are off the panel

GBCS · 18-09-2019 12:19pm

Riskymove wrote: »

the process is set out in the booklet attached to the ad

Thanks- when the competition was first posted there was no information booklet.

Addle · 18-09-2019 12:41pm

Can’t POs be assigned/reassigned anywhere?

hardybuck · 18-09-2019 12:44pm

Addle wrote: »

Can’t POs be assigned/reassigned anywhere?

All Civil Servants can be redeployed at the Minister's discretion, within certain geographical limits - which I think is a 45km radius.

happygoose · 19-09-2019 7:42pm

Irishder wrote: »

Applied for this myself. First time applying for a public job. My background is manufacturing and lean so not sure if my skills are transferable.

Have a bachelors in Electronic Engineering, a HDIP in Business Management and a Masters in Business.

Would these kind of qualifications and experience count for much?

Lean / Business Management / Business Analyst skills are very relevant. Automation / process efficiencies are high in priority under OPS2020 as Government look to remove large numbers in data entry roles and remove wasteful processes through RPA etc.

Anyone got the three competency questions handy? I’m AP I doubt I will stand a chance as each of the questions require ‘significant experience’ from what I remember but I’m not long in the role.

xeresod · 02-10-2019 1:14pm

I've noticed the stage 1 assessment requires access to a computer with a web cam - any idea what this for?

Isn't stage 1 usually verbal, numerical and job simulation tests, I can't think why a web cam would be needed for that!

tea and coffee · 02-10-2019 1:53pm

xeresod wrote: »

I've noticed the stage 1 assessment requires access to a computer with a web cam - any idea what this for?

Isn't stage 1 usually verbal, numerical and job simulation tests, I can't think why a web cam would be needed for that!

One previous P.O. higher required you to record yourself answering 3 pre set questions - I think, from memory, it was some sort of shortlisting

cee_jay · 02-10-2019 3:31pm

xeresod wrote: »

I've noticed the stage 1 assessment requires access to a computer with a web cam - any idea what this for?

Isn't stage 1 usually verbal, numerical and job simulation tests, I can't think why a web cam would be needed for that!

For the AO, the aptitude tests were remotely supervised - I don't think they needed to verify in PAS offices as a result.

hardybuck · 02-10-2019 3:39pm

cee_jay wrote: »

For the AO, the aptitude tests were remotely supervised - I don't think they needed to verify in PAS offices as a result.

So the computer you hope to use to take the test must have a webcam to verify that it's you taking the test!?

cee_jay · 02-10-2019 3:51pm

Yes - you connect and there is an invigilator on the other end who checks your room/surroundings, nothing on the desk, etc. Sound on so they can hear anything happening in the room. You stay connected to them then while taking the test.
It may have been the AO they did this with - or another campaign - but I know someone who had this earlier this year.

hardybuck · 02-10-2019 4:07pm

cee_jay wrote: »

Yes - you connect and there is an invigilator on the other end who checks your room/surroundings, nothing on the desk, etc. Sound on so they can hear anything happening in the room. You stay connected to them then while taking the test.
It may have been the AO they did this with - or another campaign - but I know someone who had this earlier this year.

I know the tests are designed to reduce the numbers, but I can see a lot of people saying to hell with this approach!

Addle · 02-10-2019 4:50pm

I’d have to buy a new laptop!

hardybuck · 02-10-2019 5:05pm

Addle wrote: »

I’d have to buy a new laptop!

Sure plenty of people wouldn't have a personal laptop at all.

Edit: A few in the office talking about doing it wearing a Scream mask or a balaclava!

xeresod · 03-10-2019 9:30am

Addle wrote: »

I’d have to buy a new laptop!

I'd have to buy a new house!

Or use someone else's without kids & animals so it doesn't look a bomb hit it!!!

Although last time I did the tests from bed, if I did that with a webcam I'd either have a very happy invigilator or cause them to run screaming from the room :eek:

fi314 · 03-10-2019 12:18pm

Has anyone any official confirmation that there will be online tests? The first Sec first stage was shortlisting and then a video interview. It seems a more suitable process for roles at this level.

03-10-2019 7:57pm

Submitted this late last - Re the 3 500 word questions. First two were fine, but only got approx 400 words for the 3rd section. Happy enough though.

tea and coffee · 10-10-2019 10:28pm

Anyone hear any whispers about what's next?

randomer542 · 14-10-2019 12:12pm

so, I've just realized I never saved the information booklet! Doh!
Anyone any idea where I might get my hands on it? thanks

16-10-2019 10:10am

Got a text message in the last couple of minutes to check for an update on Public Jobs

Dear "Chinese Whospers",

I refer to the above named competition.

It is anticipated that the online testing window will take place between the 4th and 6th November. Please be advised that familiarisation material for the online assessments will issue to you over the coming days. As yet, no test links have been issued.

Past30Now · 16-10-2019 10:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

Got a text message in the last couple of minutes to check for an update on Public Jobs

Dear "Chinese Whospers",

I refer to the above named competition.

It is anticipated that the online testing window will take place between the 4th and 6th November. Please be advised that familiarisation material for the online assessments will issue to you over the coming days. As yet, no test links have been issued.

Received the same message. I didn't save the information booklet either. Can anyone help?

Irishder · 16-10-2019 10:30am

Deleted User wrote: »

Got a text message in the last couple of minutes to check for an update on Public Jobs

Dear "Chinese Whospers",

I refer to the above named competition.

It is anticipated that the online testing window will take place between the 4th and 6th November. Please be advised that familiarisation material for the online assessments will issue to you over the coming days. As yet, no test links have been issued.

Got a mail stating the same

16-10-2019 10:44am

Past30Now wrote: »

Received the same message. I didn't save the information booklet either. Can anyone help?

I didn't save it either.

But, I don't think the next stage requires it (could be wrong - first time CS applicant).

However, if we get through that stage it would be good to reference again. If you go into your application on PublicJobs.ie there's a contact email address.

She could be contacted if progressed after the next stage.

I'm looking forward to seeing the familiarisation material.

Xofpod · 16-10-2019 11:03am

I have the booklet saved but can't attach it here. DM me with an email address and I'll send it to you.

16-10-2019 11:04am

Xofpod wrote: »

I have the booklet saved but can't attach it here. DM me with an email address and I'll send it to you.

See, this is the type that will get the actual PO job offer

Summer2019 · 18-10-2019 1:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

See, this is the type that will get the actual PO job offer

I got a message from PAS in relation to the next step in this competition and it mentions remote invigilation. Has anyone done the Critical Analysis test through PAS before?

It doesn't have any links to view the format.

Principal Officer competition 2019

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