Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

xabi · 14-03-2019 1:40pm

Feisar wrote: »

Well if you were right then Bloody Sunday wouldn't have happened. Obviously they did look like targets.

You dont know much about this whole incident I take it?

Wheres Me Jumper? · 14-03-2019 1:41pm

amcalester wrote: »

That was my first thought too.

actually i'm surprised they dodn't atempt to prosecute the dead guy, and claim what a wonderful day for British justice this is.

baldbear · 14-03-2019 1:44pm

Feisar wrote: »

Well if you were right then Bloody Sunday wouldn't have happened. Obviously they did look like targets.

A target like Gerard McKinney? Shot in the chest at Abbey Park. A soldier ran through an alleyway from Glenfada Park and shot him from a few yards away. Witnesses said that when he saw the soldier, McKinney stopped and held up his arms, shouting "Don't shoot! Don't shoot!", before being shot. The bullet apparently went through his body and struck Gerard Donaghy behind him

Feisar · 14-03-2019 1:47pm

Uncharted wrote: »

Dance on the head of a pin with symantics all you want.

You're talking about a fcuking atrocity committed against innocent civilians in this country,against the backdrop of some of this island's darkest hours.

You're not describing a ps4 session of call of duty.
Show some decency and respect.
Ffs!

Innocent people were killed by soldiers. No need to start effing at me. I believe it's the person/people who put aggressive front line soldiers in a civilian environment that are more to blame.

Uncharted · 14-03-2019 1:47pm

Feisar wrote: »

Innocent people were killed by soldiers. No need to start effing at me. I believe it's the person/people who put aggressive front line soldiers in a civilian environment that are more to blame.

Be careful whilst backpeddling,yeah.

fonecrusher1 · 14-03-2019 1:53pm

Uncharted wrote: »

You're not describing a ps4 session of call of duty.
Show some decency and respect.
Ffs!

This. Spot on. I doubt he / she has any idea about what he / she is commenting on. Utterly clueless.

Feisar · 14-03-2019 1:58pm

No I wasn't in Derry on the day, hands up who was?

Feisar · 14-03-2019 1:59pm

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

This. Spot on. I doubt he / she has any idea about what he / she is commenting on. Utterly clueless.

Why am I utterly clueless?

Feisar · 14-03-2019 2:00pm

Uncharted wrote: »

Be careful whilst backpeddling,yeah.

No backpedaling required.

14-03-2019 2:02pm

When will Dave's anonymity be fully removed?

baldbear · 14-03-2019 2:02pm

Soldier F is an absolute scumbag. The families in Derry are so dignified. "Justice for one is justice for all"

Have a read of this article

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/03/the-case-for-prosecuting-bloody-sunday-soldier-f/

Uncharted · 14-03-2019 2:04pm

Feisar wrote: »

No backpedaling required.

Its extremely obvious the role you're trying to play here.
Within the context of the subject matter at hand,its shameful.

I won't be biting further.

Mutant z · 14-03-2019 2:07pm

What's the betting he will get off with technicality the utterly corrupt British establishment will make sure of it they have no intention of helping to ever bring those murdering scum to justice when it's one of their own they will simply give them immunity for life.

fonecrusher1 · 14-03-2019 2:14pm

Uncharted wrote: »

Its extremely obvious the role you're trying to play here.
Within the context of the subject matter at hand,its shameful.

I won't be biting further.

Don't feed it.

On another note I suspect the charged will be given some considerable leniency given his age. Unfortunately.

Mrsmum · 14-03-2019 2:14pm

Mutant z wrote: »

What's the betting he will get off with technicality the utterly corrupt British establishment will make sure of it they have no intention of helping to ever bring those murdering scum to justice when it's one of their own they will simply give them immunity for life.

Or I was thinking, is it possible they will be happy enough to throw this one fellow under the bus as if he had gone rogue. That's why I would prefer more than one soldier to be charged to show a mindset and also of course to reflect what actually happened.

partyguinness · 14-03-2019 2:15pm

I had to check the Daily Mail website for the inevitable FURY and DISGRACE. Never disappoints.

mloc123 · 14-03-2019 2:19pm

Will he be named if found guilty?

Mutant z · 14-03-2019 2:21pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

Or I was thinking, is it possible they will be happy enough to throw this one fellow under the bus as if he had gone rogue. That's why I would prefer more than one soldier to be charged to show a mindset and also of course to reflect what actually happened.

Those soldiers are still regarded as heroes bringing peace to NI by the British state so there's no chance of that happening.

Berserker · 14-03-2019 2:23pm

Mutant z wrote: »

What's the betting he will get off with technicality the utterly corrupt British establishment will make sure of it they have no intention of helping to ever bring those murdering scum to justice when it's one of their own they will simply give them immunity for life.

Well, if he's not found guilty then he acted within the bounds of the law of the land. The law of the land was good and fair when IRA terrorists were getting of due to technicalities, so this should be no different. I have a feeling that this soldier will not get off. A conviction here will appease the masses. It'll be a nice softener for the angst the Brexit is causing also.

Junkyard Tom · 14-03-2019 2:28pm

Nobody should mistake this for justice - justice would have seen them in prison in the early 1970's serving life for cold-blooded murder.

14-03-2019 2:30pm

Berserker wrote: »

Well, if he's not found guilty then he acted within the bounds of the law of the land. The law of the land was good and fair when IRA terrorists were getting of due to technicalities, so this should be no different. I have a feeling that this soldier will not get off. A conviction here will appease the masses. It'll be a nice softener for the angst the Brexit is causing also.

Exactly, getting the green light by his masters to commit atrocities. Within the parameters of "justice". You can falsely conflate this with Brexit all you want.

Mutant z · 14-03-2019 2:34pm

Berserker wrote: »

Well, if he's not found guilty then he acted within the bounds of the law of the land. The law of the land was good and fair when IRA terrorists were getting of due to technicalities, so this should be no different. I have a feeling that this soldier will not get off. A conviction here will appease the masses. It'll be a nice softener for the angst the Brexit is causing also.

This sounds like a bit like oh but look over there someone else did something a classic whataboutary tactic and what the hell brexit has to do with it i will never know.

Jimbob1977 · 14-03-2019 2:36pm

Does the Good Friday Agreement extend to British soldiers?

Berserker · 14-03-2019 2:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly, getting the green light by his masters to commit atrocities. Within the parameters of "justice". You can falsely conflate this with Brexit all you want.

You should consider a career in tabloid journalism with language like that and the will be a sideline story/distraction if things get heated over Brexit.

rapul · 14-03-2019 2:36pm

A ****ing sham.

Feisar · 14-03-2019 2:45pm

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Don't feed it.

On another note I suspect the charged will be given some considerable leniency given his age. Unfortunately.

No need to call me a troll because I believe the fault lies mainly with the authorities.

The_Kew_Tour · 14-03-2019 2:50pm

Doubt familes will be happy with this

partyguinness · 14-03-2019 2:57pm

There will just be massive campaign to counter this with the old boys network clubbing together to paint him as a poor distressed soldier in an impossible situation doing his best with all sorts of pressure from the upper echelons of British society blah blah blah

Akin the SAS guy in Afghanistan who blatantly went up to a dying Afghani on the ground and shot him point blank in the chest. He even acknowledged what he was about to do was in violation of the Geneva Convention.

Giveaway · 14-03-2019 3:01pm

The trial will have to be in the form of justice available at the time. So a Diplock(non jury) court. I would much prefer for the trial to be held in front of a jury, preferably in front of a jury of normal English people so they can see the horror of what was done.

Immortal Starlight · 14-03-2019 3:09pm

It's an absolute insult to the 13 people who died and their families to only find 1 soldier did wrong that day. Some of them were only 17 years old. They deserve more than this. This is not justice.

riffmongous · 14-03-2019 3:18pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Does the Good Friday Agreement extend to British soldiers?

As far as I am aware, the GFA was for early release, not an amnesty for crimes that were never prosecuted. Since there were never any British soldiers prosecuted, it doesn't apply to them

Gimme A Pound · 14-03-2019 3:21pm

Mutant z wrote: »

This sounds like a bit like oh but look over there someone else did something a classic whataboutary tactic and what the hell brexit has to do with it i will never know.

Agreed, what the actual **** does Brexit have to do with it...

Feisar wrote: »

No need to call me a troll because I believe the fault lies mainly with the authorities.

Yeah I think people are being harsh on you. You're nowhere near the actual whatabouters here.

riffmongous · 14-03-2019 3:21pm

partyguinness wrote: »

I had to check the Daily Mail website for the inevitable FURY and DISGRACE. Never disappoints.

The Express is taking it surprsingly well though, I suppose they don't want anything distracting from Brexit

steddyeddy · 14-03-2019 3:32pm

Feisar wrote: »

Why am I utterly clueless?

You're utterly clueless because you're maintaining that putting a group of some of the world's best trained soldiers into an area where there are civil rights protesters was always going to result in 14 dead people.

Soldier F, the one who's being prosecuted is described in the following retelling of the Saville tribunal. Sorry F but shooting innocent civilians while they're crawling away isn't what a soldier does. Lieing about your actions isn't what a soldier does either, unless they weren't acting like a soldier.

Under questioning in 2003, the short and stocky F — then in late middle age — was reduced to monosyllabic answers, generally of either ‘yes’ or ‘no’. He claimed to remember almost nothing of the day, despite it being his first visit to Derry and — by his own admission — the most shots he had fired on any deployment up to that date. Under devastating questioning, F was shown to have killed at least four people that day. One of them was Patrick Doherty, shot through a buttock as he was crawling away. One more killing which soldier F had ‘forgotten’ about when first questioned by the RMP.

Then, while Doherty lay crying in agony, a 41-year-old man called Barney McGuigan stepped out from behind a block of flats to try to get help for the dying man. McGuigan was waving a white handkerchief. According to the testimony of numerous witnesses, including an officer from another regiment stationed on the city walls, soldier F — positioned on the other side of the road — got down on one knee and shot McGuigan through the head. No one who saw the mortuary photos of the exit wound in McGuigan’s face will forget what just that one bullet of soldier F’s did.

steddyeddy · 14-03-2019 3:34pm

Berserker wrote: »

Well, if he's not found guilty then he acted within the bounds of the law of the land. The law of the land was good and fair when IRA terrorists were getting of due to technicalities, so this should be no different. I have a feeling that this soldier will not get off. A conviction here will appease the masses. It'll be a nice softener for the angst the Brexit is causing also.

This is a common ignorance among British people. IRA members weren't given amnesty, they were released early.

Giveaway · 14-03-2019 3:34pm

The daily mail have disabled comments like its thejournal.ie

Cryptopagan · 14-03-2019 3:42pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Does the Good Friday Agreement extend to British soldiers?

Early release under the GFA only covers offences from 1973 to 1998, so it’s not relevant to Bloody Sunday anyhow.

Afaik it’s never been applied to a member of the security forces, but there isn’t anything in the legislation that says it can’t be.

realitykeeper · 14-03-2019 3:42pm

Wasn`t a former IRA bomber deported or arrested or something recently for a 1972 bombing? This British soldier being charged with murder might have been negotiated at some level and an agreement made regarding charging him and charging the IRA man. Of course it could just be a coincidence.

zapitastas · 14-03-2019 3:51pm

The parachute regiment are full of the dregs of British society. Absolutely sick psychopaths

Spook_ie · 14-03-2019 3:54pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Nobody should mistake this for justice - justice would have seen them in prison in the early 1970's serving life for cold-blooded murder.

And presumably released under the GFA?

Junkyard Tom · 14-03-2019 4:08pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

And presumably released under the GFA?

I'd imagine so.

vicwatson · 14-03-2019 4:09pm

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

It's an absolute insult to the 13 people who died and their families to only find 1 soldier did wrong that day. Some of them were only 17 years old. They deserve more than this. This is not justice.

14

Wheres Me Jumper? · 14-03-2019 4:20pm

did anybody see the BBC Newsnight interview with the then para commander Derek Wilford?

Would he apologise to the families of the victims? "I said that at the time and I've said it subsequently, he replied. "I see no point in repeating it because whatever I say will be discounted."

I finally asked what Bloody Sunday had done to him.

"I think it destroyed my world," he sighed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-47559123

partyguinness · 14-03-2019 4:26pm

riffmongous wrote: »

As far as I am aware, the GFA was for early release, not an amnesty for crimes that were never prosecuted. Since there were never any British soldiers prosecuted, it doesn't apply to them

That is an important distinction that apologists for the British Army forget (conveniently or just do not understand).

The fundamental difference is that members of IRA, UVF et al were caught, prosecuted, served time and were then released.

To this day paras from both sides are still apprehended, prosecuted, sentenced but then pretty much released straight away under the GFA.

As you say, no British soldier was ever put through due process in the first instance.

Odhinn · 14-03-2019 4:31pm

baldbear wrote: »

Soldier F is an absolute scumbag. The families in Derry are so dignified. "Justice for one is justice for all"

Have a read of this article

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/03/the-case-for-prosecuting-bloody-sunday-soldier-f/

He may well be, but that was part of his job description. They (the British government ) sent in the paras to brutalise the population and quash dissent and resistance. They did nothing in the north that was in anyway unique, they just happened to do it in the glare of modern media.

Immortal Starlight · 14-03-2019 4:32pm

vicwatson wrote: »

14

Yes of course John Johnston RIP was as much a victim of Bloody Sunday as the rest of the people killed on the day.

FrancieBrady · 14-03-2019 4:40pm

We already know via Widgery, The Birmingham Six and many other instances that British courts are controlled by the establishment which is morally bankrupt.

The surprise here is that people are surprised that it is taking so long for the British to own up to what they did.

To the people of Derry the will to fight on.

Junkyard Tom · 14-03-2019 4:44pm

partyguinness wrote: »

That is an important distinction that apologists for the British Army forget (conveniently or just do not understand).

The fundamental difference is that members of IRA, UVF et al were caught, prosecuted, served time and were then released..

Also, unlike for those murdered by paramilitaries, the families of those killed by the British Army suffered the stigma of having their loved-ones described as nail-bombers and shooters. When the soldiers were found innocent it automatically laid the blame with those they killed.

Timberrrrrrrr · 14-03-2019 4:49pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Also, unlike for those murdered by paramilitaries, the families of those killed by the British Army suffered the stigma of having their murdered loved-ones described as nail-bombers and shooters. When the soldiers were found innocent it automatically laid the blame with those they killed.

I know what you mean

zapitastas wrote: »

The parachute regiment are full of the dregs of British society. Absolutely sick psychopaths

Anywho, hopefully the victims if that horrible day will see justice served, pity it's not more of them on trial for what happened that day.

lawred2 · 14-03-2019 4:49pm

But they were only following orders...

yada yada yada

I don't believe in hell - but I'd love there to be one for these animals. And I hope they scream for eternity.

Bloody Sunday is only a footnote in the list of barbarism inflicted on the world by British armed forces.

Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

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