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Papal Visit - Poor show by the Defense Forces

  • 28-08-2018 9:40pm
    #1
    BowSideChamp
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭


    The Defense Forces were assigned the task of protecting the 100k's visiting the Phoenix Park during the Papal visit. It is their most important fuction- to protect the state and the citizens. They have not only bitched and moaned about it on social media but probably breached opsec by posting pictures online. Anyone else disappointed at their conduct?


«1

Comments

  • #2
    scuby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭scuby


    To be fair, not being paid similar to guards and sleeping rough under a tarp in the park, surrounded by needles... would you happily do it


  • #3
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    They always have and always will perform all tasks assigned, at home or overseas.

    They have long standing grievences which have been continuously ignored by the government and military leadership.

    This is a product of frustration and their only outlet to be heard...unlike other jobs, careers, state services.

    It's not ideal to do a similar but more robust task and get paid less than €2 per hour while another guy doing less work, in better conditions gets paid 20 times that.

    Looking in from the outside, it looks like whinging but thats all you see...from the outside.

    Technically, OPSEC wasnt breached but PERSEC was and they still performed their task as assigned....in the rain...for low pay...at a religious festival...which they shouldnt have been assigned.

    Anyway, these lads train to defend the State and have been doing it since 1922. They are entrusted as you said to defend its citizens...their most important task.

    It's so important that they are rewarded as the lowest paid body in the public sector.

    They signed up to fight for you under any circumstances and any time. They travel overseas and put themselves in a position to fight for someone else if needed.

    Let them fight for themselves here now, because nobody else will.

    You are trying to paint a rainbow using only black and white colours. How about supporting them instead of bashing them?


  • #4
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,530 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    They were there to act as yellow pack stewards* not to protect the state. hard to do while unarmed. Told to live in filthy conditions surrounded by discarded needles. despite this they still did the job assigned to them and did it with good humour by all accounts. Those that complained publicly were right to do so.



    *this is not an insult to the members of the PDF. the way they were treated was.


  • #5
    Adamocovic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,292 ✭✭✭Adamocovic


    From people I know in the Defense Forces they were on ridiculously low pay for the shifts while Gardaí I think received over-time.

    I dont' have any annoyance towards them. I don't want to say specifics incase I am remembering the exacts wrong but the hourly pay was insultingly low for the hours required.

    Also in some areas like Knock they were scheduling shifts there but had received complaints from locals about feeling uncomfortable about military presence and the operation was scraped a couple of hours in.

    I would definitely understand some of the Defense Force not being happy and voicing that opinion.


  • #6
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    BowSideChamp wrote:
    The Defense Forces were assigned the task of protecting the 100k's visiting the Phoenix Park during the Papal visit. It is their most important fuction- to protect the state and the citizens. They have not only bitched and moaned about it on social media but probably breached opsec by posting pictures online. Anyone else disappointed at their conduct?


    Here you are bitching and moaning about the DF. The irony.


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  • #7
    Faith+1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Faith+1


    Adamocovic wrote: »
    Also in some areas like Knock they were scheduling shifts there but had received complaints from locals about feeling uncomfortable about military presence and the operation was scraped a couple of hours in.

    The same useless b*stards who are delighted to see the Army assisting them during the floods, snow, storms etc....
    The utter contempt people have for the military in this Country is a disgrace.

    Maybe if they had to do their 16 weeks basic they'd feel a bit different about the Army.


  • #8
    gunnerfitzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭gunnerfitzy


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    They always have and always will perform all tasks assigned, at home or overseas.

    They have long standing grievences which have been continuously ignored by the government and military leadership.

    This is a product of frustration and their only outlet to be heard...unlike other jobs, careers, state services.

    It's not ideal to do a similar but more robust task and get paid less than €2 per hour while another guy doing less work, in better conditions gets paid 20 times that.

    Looking in from the outside, it looks like whinging but thats all you see...from the outside.

    Technically, OPSEC wasnt breached but PERSEC was and they still performed their task as assigned....in the rain...for low pay...at a religious festival...which they shouldnt have been assigned.

    Anyway, these lads train to defend the State and have been doing it since 1922. They are entrusted as you said to defend its citizens...their most important task.

    It's so important that they are rewarded as the lowest paid body in the public sector.

    They signed up to fight for you under any circumstances and any time. They travel overseas and put themselves in a position to fight for someone else if needed.

    Let them fight for themselves here now, because nobody else will.

    You are trying to paint a rainbow using only black and white colours. How about supporting them instead of bashing them?

    Excellently articulated post about where the DF is currently from a serving soldier's perspective.


  • #9
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Faith+1 wrote: »
    The same useless b*stards who are delighted to see the Army assisting them during the floods, snow, storms etc....
    The utter contempt people have for the military in this Country is a disgrace.

    Maybe if they had to do their 16 weeks basic they'd feel a bit different about the Army.

    Couldnt agree more. It should be mandatory for all people between 18 and 25 or so. It would have value in so many ways.

    Oh, and the way the DF lads were treated in the Phoenix Park at the weekend was a diagrace. Whatever about the money, a decent campground and billets wouldnt have hurt anyone, and a rotation into McKee for grub and sanitation.


  • #10
    Pussyhands
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    scuby wrote: »
    To be fair, not being paid similar to guards and sleeping rough under a tarp in the park, surrounded by needles... would you happily do it

    Why should different job roles be paid the same by default? Join the guards if you want their pay.


  • #11
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,181 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    The residents of knock are obviously knobheads that don't deserve protection (if they turned their noses up as detailed in this thread)


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  • #12
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Pussyhands wrote: »
    Why should different job roles be paid the same by default? Join the guards if you want their pay.

    This is not about pay parity between services. You do not seem to have a grasp of the situation.

    This is about payment for out of hours service.

    In this scenario, the Defence Forces conducted tasks that An Garda Siochana could/would not do.

    An Garda Siochana were rotated every couple of hours. They got to wind down in the local pubs and hotels which were booked out exclusively for them. Hot, fresh carvery food, tea, water and shelter. They recieved up to €40 per hour for this.

    The Defence Forces were sent into the Phoenix Park on Saturday to perfrom armed patrols and were told, "See ye on Sunday evening lads, hope ye have yer wet gear".

    "Rest areas" were provided. This was a 10 man tent which 40 lads were meant to be able to squeze into...no chance. Lads had to bivi up along the railings out in the rain. Unfortunately in locations which had used needles and bags of faeces strewn around. The food was pre packed sandwiches and substandard tin foil meals.

    The Defence Forces are no strangers to hardship, this was not particularly hard by any means. They dont care about patrolling or sleeping in the rain with limited shelter or insufficient food.

    They care about being paid on par with the lads who requested their presence at the event in the first place...i.e AGS. Soldiers are cheaper than AGS members despite being better trained with a higher skillset and vast armed operational experience gleaned from operating in hostile environments.

    Monetarily, you get 30+ soldiers for the price of 1 AGS member. If you don't see a problem with that then Im not going to try to convince you.

    I know a few AGS members who were working at the Papal visit. They will be close to clearing €1k for working less time sitting down dry in a car while the soldier wont even clear €100.

    Out of interest, how much does your job pay you for overtime, is it less than €2 per hour?


  • #13
    Dank Janniels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Dank Janniels


    Genuine question, why wasnt there a marquee or tent structure put up for them, like a temperary basecamp as sum1 alredy mentioned above? Sleeping out rough and then expected to put in a shift? Where was the nearest barricks?


  • #14
    Autochange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭Autochange


    Faith+1 wrote: »
    The same useless b*stards who are delighted to see the Army assisting them during the floods, snow, storms etc....
    The utter contempt people have for the military in this Country is a disgrace.

    Maybe if they had to do their 16 weeks basic they'd feel a bit different about the Army.

    Paid 16 weeks.


  • #15
    Pussyhands
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    This is not about pay parity between services. You do not seem to have a grasp of the situation.

    This is about payment for out of hours service.

    In this scenario, the Defence Forces conducted tasks that An Garda Siochana could/would not do.

    An Garda Siochana were rotated every couple of hours. They got to wind down in the local pubs and hotels which were booked out exclusively for them. Hot, fresh carvery food, tea, water and shelter. They recieved up to €40 per hour for this.

    The Defence Forces were sent into the Phoenix Park on Saturday to perfrom armed patrols and were told, "See ye on Sunday evening lads, hope ye have yer wet gear".

    "Rest areas" were provided. This was a 10 man tent which 40 lads were meant to be able to squeze into...no chance. Lads had to bivi up along the railings out in the rain. Unfortunately in locations which had used needles and bags of faeces strewn around. The food was pre packed sandwiches and substandard tin foil meals.

    The Defence Forces are no strangers to hardship, this was not particularly hard by any means. They dont care about patrolling or sleeping in the rain with limited shelter or insufficient food.

    They care about being paid on par with the lads who requested their presence at the event in the first place...i.e AGS. Soldiers are cheaper than AGS members despite being better trained with a higher skillset and vast armed operational experience gleaned from operating in hostile environments.

    Monetarily, you get 30+ soldiers for the price of 1 AGS member. If you don't see a problem with that then Im not going to try to convince you.

    I know a few AGS members who were working at the Papal visit. They will be close to clearing €1k for working less time sitting down dry in a car while the soldier wont even clear €100.

    Out of interest, how much does your job pay you for overtime, is it less than €2 per hour?

    I'm on salary so I don't get paid for extra hours....

    If you want to go down the lines of my job, I used to work in a job where I earned 10 quid an hour while a person in another company earned about 15 euro an hour for the same work.


  • #16
    Elemonator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭Elemonator


    Troll post. Next.


  • #17
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Don't bother with lads like that.

    They're of the mindset that anyone who earns less is a useless b*stard and anyone who earns more is an overpaid c#nt.


  • #18
    fiload
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭fiload


    In fairness, if you are in the army and not overseas you basically have nothing to do everyday. The majority of the time is spent sweeping the yard, gym or computer games.


  • #19
    swarlb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭swarlb


    fiload wrote: »
    In fairness, if you are in the army and not overseas you basically have nothing to do everyday. The majority of the time is spent sweeping the yard, gym or computer games.

    Same could be said of firefighters (not allowed call them firemen anymore).. maybe we should shut down all the barracks and fire stations, and just hand out mobile phones (paid by themselves of course). Just give them a call whenever a war breaks out, a forest or hotel goes up in flames or the next time El Papa pays a call !


  • #20
    FirefighterT7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭FirefighterT7


    I agree Defence Forces members do a excellent job and deserve far more support. I agree with Swarlb, as a member of Fire Service people seem to think we have a great time of it, try to forget what we see at 3am, the same goes for the Defence forces, they deserve so much more.


  • #21
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,493 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    scuby wrote: »
    surrounded by needles
    Why didn't the just move somewhere else?


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  • #22
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    FirefighterT7 wrote: »
    I agree Defence Forces members do a excellent job and deserve far more support. I agree with Swarlb, as a member of Fire Service people seem to think we have a great time of it, try to forgetb what we see at 3am, the same goes for the Defence forces, they deserve so much more.
    FirefighterT7 wrote: »

    what we see at 3am

    Why do you be lining up the crosshairs on some bloke while thinking "wonder if he has kids......they'll be off to an orphanage in 3....2....1 " ?



    Tell us again how much you get paid ?


  • #23
    Adamocovic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,292 ✭✭✭Adamocovic


    Everyone's entitled to their opinion but some of the posts regarding the Defence Force here seem so odd in my eyes.

    I can't see how anyone can hear the huge divide in pay for the event and think it was acceptable. Both the Gardaí and Defence Force are governmental services.

    The Gardaí were given up to €30 an hour for overtime during the event.
    The Defence Forces were given up to €24 a day for overtime, for performing a similar role. Ones who worked 24-hour shifts got up to €48 euro a day.

    It's an outrageous divide between the two. It's also been reported that the facilities provided for people performing 24-hour shifts were very poor.

    It's odd to me that people are taking the side of the Government on this one regarding the facilities and pay when our society seems to mostly side against the Government these days.


  • #24
    Faith+1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Faith+1


    Adamocovic wrote: »

    The Gardaere given up to €30 an hour for overtime during the event.
    The Defence Forces were given up to €24 a day for overtime, for performing a similar role. Ones who worked 24-hour shifts got up to €48 euro a day.

    And they wonder why they can't fill their recruitment quotas. It's not that there's a lack of suitable candidates, it's the simple fact that the pay is fcuking atrocious.

    I understand people have aspirations of serving their Country but that won't pay the bills, especially when you can earn more working in Dominos pizza. Plus the public probably have more respect for a pizza maker than their soldiers :rolleyes:


  • #25
    swarlb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭swarlb


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Why do you be lining up the crosshairs on some bloke while thinking "wonder if he has kids......they'll be off to an orphanage in 3....2....1 " ?



    Tell us again how much you get paid ?

    They get paid basically for this...
    Being on call for every minute that they report for work, unlike most people who have set times for breaks, lunch etc.
    This work usually includes...
    Dealing with drunks, drug addicts and whatever else is to be found in need of 'emergency care' as in, transport to whatever hospital may be on call.
    Scraping the remains of humans unlucky to be found dead at the scene of a road traffic accident, not an easy job at the best of times.
    Also having to deal with human remains found either rotting or burnt, people who either died of natural causes and were not found for days or weeks, or victims of house fires, men, women, children, babies...A man called Birmingham springs to mind.
    Being called out to a 999 emergency call, only to find the person who called has a toothache.. and yes, they are required to attend, and it does happen.
    The fire service (in Dublin at least) also operates the ambulance service.
    Many firefighters suffer as a result of what they have seen and had to endure down through the years, and more than a few have turned to drink. Relationships and family life have also suffered as a result.
    Yes, they get paid well, and they deserve every penny and more.
    As for joining the defence forces, the one thing that can be guaranteed about this job, is that in the event of conflict, they usually get shot at.
    Unusually other occupations, people who work in IT, or Deli shops tend not to get to see half of what a firefighter sees on a regular basis, yet one thing is certain, if they are involved in a car crash, an assault by a thug, or need a cat rescued from a tree, it'll be a firefighter who turns up to help.
    Maybe they should ask what the pay is ?

    By the way.. I'm not a firefighter...


  • #26
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Pussyhands wrote: »
    I'm on salary so I don't get paid for extra hours....

    According to THIS THREAD you don't do over time. You work ten minutes from home, for 8.5 hours per day. You're off every weekend, but you're "too bollixed" to do anything with it (free weekends) and you've twenty annual leave days per year.

    You're able to save €15k per annum and have €60k savings. For a soldier to make that kind of wedge they'd have to travel oversea's to someone else's misery.. Kiddo, at 26 you're not doing too bad for yourself

    So why not answer the question put to you, would you work for €2 per hour OT?. If you don't want to answer that, answer this then. When everyone else in society wants nothing else but equality, respect and fairness do you think a soldier, airman or sailor should settle for anything less?.


  • #27
    osheen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭osheen


    What I can't understand is why the lads weren't rotated in and out of McKee .
    No shortage of facilities there and only a 10 minute walk from the stage . It just baffles me the disregard that was shown to the lads forcing them to camp out with a mostly empty barracks so close .


  • #28
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    Technically, OPSEC wasnt breached but PERSEC was and they still performed their task as assigned....in the rain...for low pay...at a religious festival...which they shouldnt have been assigned.

    Since when did the DF start getting political ? It was a large public event whether you like it or not, and finally something for them to assist with as an aid to the civil power, or should they be paid to be left in the guardhouse all day playing cards and sitting on their arses whining and talking shyte as usual ?


  • #29
    FirefighterT7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭FirefighterT7


    =FirefighterT7;107938100]

    what we see at 3am

    Why do you be lining up the crosshairs on some bloke while thinking "wonder if he has kids......they'll be off to an orphanage in 3....2....1 " ?


    Tell us again how much you get paid ?
    If you must Know I earned a hardly huge €22000 after tax last year, to be on call 24/7 365, all the while holding down a second job to pay my bills and feed my family. What about you? Ever put in a 48 hour shift? I hope you or yours never need us, but if you should we don’t discriminate because of ignorance, abuse or any of the rest of it, so rest assured we will drop everything and come.


  • #30
    FirefighterT7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭FirefighterT7


    swarlb wrote: »
    gctest50 wrote: »
    Why do you be lining up the crosshairs on some bloke while thinking "wonder if he has kids......they'll be off to an orphanage in 3....2....1 " ?



    Tell us again how much you get paid ?

    They get paid basically for this...
    Being on call for every minute that they report for work, unlike most people who have set times for breaks, lunch etc.
    This work usually includes...
    Dealing with drunks, drug addicts and whatever else is to be found in need of 'emergency care' as in, transport to whatever hospital may be on call.
    Scraping the remains of humans unlucky to be found dead at the scene of a road traffic accident, not an easy job at the best of times.
    Also having to deal with human remains found either rotting or burnt, people who either died of natural causes and were not found for days or weeks, or victims of house fires, men, women, children, babies...A man called Birmingham springs to mind.
    Being called out to a 999 emergency call, only to find the person who called has a toothache.. and yes, they are required to attend, and it does happen.
    The fire service (in Dublin at least) also operates the ambulance service.
    Many firefighters suffer as a result of what they have seen and had to endure down through the years, and more than a few have turned to drink. Relationships and family life have also suffered as a result.
    Yes, they get paid well, and they deserve every penny and more.
    As for joining the defence forces, the one thing that can be guaranteed about this job, is that in the event of conflict, they usually get shot at.
    Unusually other occupations, people who work in IT, or Deli shops tend not to get to see half of what a firefighter sees on a regular basis, yet one thing is certain, if they are involved in a car crash, an assault by a thug, or need a cat rescued from a tree, it'll be a firefighter who turns up to help.
    Maybe they should ask what the pay is ?

    By the way.. I'm not a firefighter...

    Thank you Swarlb,
    I couldn’t have summed it up better apart from the highly paid part, most of Irish fire service is retained and a lot struggle to make ends meat, hence why I can relate to Defence Forces and feel so sorry for them and how they are treated. Thank you for the support and be safe!


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  • #31
    Pussyhands
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Cristiano Small Ping-pong wrote: »
    According to THIS THREAD you don't do over time. You work ten minutes from home, for 8.5 hours per day. You're off every weekend, but you're "too bollixed" to do anything with it (free weekends) and you've twenty annual leave days per year.

    You're able to save €15k per annum and have €60k savings. For a soldier to make that kind of wedge they'd have to travel oversea's to someone else's misery.. Kiddo, at 26 you're not doing too bad for yourself

    So why not answer the question put to you, would you work for €2 per hour OT?. If you don't want to answer that, answer this then. When everyone else in society wants nothing else but equality, respect and fairness do you think a soldier, airman or sailor should settle for anything less?.

    Not sure what my spending habits or commute have to do with my job. Those are my choices.

    I don't do overtime but I also am not out on the button every day. I was in work until 11pm multiple days this year. I get 0 extra for this.

    In 22 years I'll be forced to work where a defence force member can retire with a pension.


  • #32
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Cristiano Small Ping-pong wrote:
    According to


    Hope that lad found his way to the "burns unit". Well done.


  • #33
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    FirefighterT7 wrote:
    Thank you Swarlb, I couldn’t have summed it up better apart from the highly paid part, most of Irish fire service is retained and a lot struggle to make ends meat, hence why I can relate to Defence Forces and feel so sorry for them and how they are treated. Thank you for the support and be safe!


    Just saw your post fair play lad. I was in the service myself. Retained. Cheap way for the council to have 24hour cover. Absolute p*ss take. Often on call at 3 In the morning and in to my regular job at 8. Hard life.


  • #34
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Pussyhands wrote:
    In 22 years I'll be forced to work where a defence force member can retire with a pension.


    Wrong, do some research.


  • #35
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Pussyhands wrote: »
    Not sure what my spending habits or commute have to do with my job. Those are my choices.

    I don't do overtime but I also am not out on the button every day. I was in work until 11pm multiple days this year. I get 0 extra for this.

    In 22 years I'll be forced to work where a defence force member can retire with a pension.

    When you have to spend your off time cutting the noose of some poor f+cker who decided to end his life, you might not be so quick to complain about staying in a bit late.

    The ignorance of some people is unbelievable


  • #36
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Pussyhands wrote: »
    Not sure what my spending habits or commute have to do with my job. Those are my choices.

    I don't do overtime but I also am not out on the button every day. I was in work until 11pm multiple days this year. I get 0 extra for this.

    In 22 years I'll be forced to work where a defence force member can retire with a pension.

    1. I'm pointing out that you know little about the DF and have absolutely nothing to compare your living & working (plus pay) conditions to a soldiers.

    I'm sure if you had worked until 11pm on multiple days you'd have mentioned it in the other thread, you whinged just about everything else.

    Some soldiers can retire at 21 years pension, a tiny number can. But its not a pension you can retire from work on and in their last few years of service a soldier starts to prepare themselves for civilian employment. Where as you're moaning in the other thread that your life is so hard that you'd like to retire at 40. Nothing wrong with that, we'd all love to do that but most of us live in the real world.

    I'm not going to engage with you further. Since you've failed to answer the questions put to you I'm going to assume that 1, you wouldn't work for less than €2 an hour OT. You like your 8.5 hours work a day and your weekends free, so would I.

    2. That you think the DF's pay and conditions are fair.. Well I don't, and fair play to soldiers, sailors and airmen for finally fighting back and speaking up for themselves.


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  • #37
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,483 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Adamocovic wrote: »

    Also in some areas like Knock they were scheduling shifts there but had received complaints from locals about feeling uncomfortable about military presence and the operation was scraped a couple of hours in.
    Are you seriously suggesting that a military operation was scrapped became of a few complaints?


  • #38
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    Since when did the DF start getting political ? It was a large public event whether you like it or not, and finally something for them to assist with as an aid to the civil power, or should they be paid to be left in the guardhouse all day playing cards and sitting on their arses whining and talking shyte as usual ?

    I hope you wiped the shyte from the side of your mouth after that drivel.

    What do you mean by "finally something for them to assist with as an aid to the civil power"? They provide ATCP multiple times a year.

    The only reason large numbers of the DF were tasked is because they are cheaper labour than AGS members.

    Oh and nobody plays cards on duty anymore, that died out in the early 2000's, plus it was a weekend....3000 lads wouldnt be in the Guard Room that day.

    Anyway, this is about two seperate State assets providing a similar task for the State but being paid astronomically different OT by the State. What is your opininon on that?

    If youre going to have a pot shot at someone, at least bring some live ammo with you.


  • #39
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Pussyhands wrote: »
    In 22 years I'll be forced to work where a defence force member can retire with a pension.

    Now now, lets give you an update pussy...hands.

    But first, if you work extra hours, is it sitting behind a desk or is it self sufficient and out in the elements with no support? Is there a guy next to you doing the same job for more pay?

    DF members who joined before 2006 can retire at 21 years service on a pension. An Enlisted rank will still need to secure employment as (in my case) the pension will cover the mortgage payment but I will still need to eat....so I am very much forced to work....like yourself.

    DF members who joined later (I think there are 3 more variants) will have differing contracts. Some need to serve 31 years before becoming eligible for a pension. Some need to serve 31 years but cannot draw their pension until they are 60 and others 65.

    We all cannot leave at 21 and draw down pension.

    There are valid reasons why soldiers can leave at 21 and recieve a pension but the ones cited to me may not be correct so I wont post them. I will endevour to find out though if requested.


  • #40
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    I hope you wiped the shyte from the side of your mouth after that drivel.

    Anyway, this is about two seperate State assets providing a similar task for the State but being paid astronomically different OT by the State. What is your opininon on that?

    Well if that knacker response is representative of the DF then I hope their pay is reduced so. A spoiled brat pack that are not even required by the state, paid by taxpayers that actually have to work for a living, to hide away inside their billets and lie in their bunks all week all week, and then whining when they are given anything to do.
    Chewbacca wrote: »
    If youre going to have a pot shot at someone, at least bring some live ammo with you.

    Yeah, as if the Irish DF have a large stock of ammo, how much did you sign out, and what are you going to threaten me next with ? A hard of hearing or a sore back claim ?


  • #41
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Also, just FYI.

    Soldiers frustrations are not aimed at just this event. There are 10+ years of context you guys are missing.

    Someone earlier asked "when did the DF get political"?

    Well the answer is, as soon as the DF were used as the "fall guy" by the State when the recession hit. And most recently by a 'weak as puppy sh1t' Chief of Staff whose sole focus is to get a cushy gig when he retires. Instead of looking after his troops, he is feathering his own nest and taking that Government cock at both ends.

    Fcuk the lads.


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  • #42
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    Well if that knacker response is representative of the DF then I hope their pay is reduced so. A spoiled brat pack that are not even required by the state, paid by taxpayers that actually have to work for a living, to hide away inside their billets and lie in their bunks all week all week, and then whining when they are given anything to do.

    Yeah, as if they Irish DF have a large stock of ammo, so what are you going to threaten me next with ?

    Come back to us when you have an idea of what you are taking about....you clearly dont.

    I didnt threaten you....please read again and this time, try to understand. Or at least get someone else to read it and explain it to you.....it was a methaphor for you having useless information...i.e blank rounds...not live rounds.


  • #43
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    Come back to us when you have an idea of what you are taking about....you clearly dont.

    I didnt threaten you....please read again and this time, try to understand. Or at least get someone else to read it and explain it to you.....it was a methaphor for you having useless information...i.e blank rounds...not live rounds.

    Just try threatening someone else with live rounds again and see how you get on. Go and have a lie down in your bunk and scratch your balls again, your'e well paid for it.


  • #44
    FirefighterT7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭FirefighterT7


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    FirefighterT7 wrote:
    Thank you Swarlb, I couldn’t have summed it up better apart from the highly paid part, most of Irish fire service is retained and a lot struggle to make ends meat, hence why I can relate to Defence Forces and feel so sorry for them and how they are treated. Thank you for the support and be safe!


    Just saw your post fair play lad. I was in the service myself. Retained. Cheap way for the council to have 24hour cover. Absolute p*ss take. Often on call at 3 In the morning and in to my regular job at 8. Hard life.

    You know what I’m talking about! It’s a hard life but it’s harder when treated like crap and more cuts every 2 weeks.. Well done for you’re service Hitman3000


  • #45
    FirefighterT7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭FirefighterT7


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    Chewbacca wrote: »
    Come back to us when you have an idea of what you are taking about....you clearly dont.

    I didnt threaten you....please read again and this time, try to understand. Or at least get someone else to read it and explain it to you.....it was a methaphor for you having useless information...i.e blank rounds...not live rounds.

    Just try threatening someone else with live rounds again and see how you get on. Go and have a lie down in your bunk and scratch your balls again, your'e well paid for it.

    It’s funny that you are the one on about knacker responses when that’s what you come back to the table with, kettle pot springs to mind.. do us all a favour and go stir Crap somewhere else.


  • #46
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    FirefighterT7 wrote: »
    It’s funny that you are the one on about knacker responses when that’s what you come back to the table with, kettle pot springs to mind.. do us all a favour and go stir Crap somewhere else.

    And another overpaid bed scratcher leaps to the rescue, no cats stuck up a tree or power washing to do this morning ?


  • #47
    FirefighterT7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭FirefighterT7


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    FirefighterT7 wrote: »
    It’s funny that you are the one on about knacker responses when that’s what you come back to the table with, kettle pot springs to mind.. do us all a favour and go stir Crap somewhere else.

    And another overpaid bed scratcher leaps to the rescue, no cats stuck up a tree or power washing to do this morning ?

    What do you do?? Come on tell us


  • #48
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    FirefighterT7 wrote: »
    What do you do?? Come on tell us

    I'm another taxpayer that pays your wages, that already pays too much for you lie around around complaining all day.


  • #49
    FirefighterT7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭FirefighterT7


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    FirefighterT7 wrote: »
    What do you do?? Come on tell us

    I'm another taxpayer that pays your wages, that already pays too much for you lie around around complaining all day.

    Yeah I’m sure you work very hard being a Keyboard warrior but that’s not taxable, so have a nice day being ignorant


  • #50
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    Just try threatening someone else with live rounds again and see how you get on. Go and have a lie down in your bunk and scratch your balls again, your'e well paid for it.

    More nonsense out of you.

    I apologise for being curt but it's hard to debate with people like yourself that have no idea what they are talking about but continue to post as if they do...but hey, thats your problem.

    Please highlight where I threatened anyone with live ammunition. Feel free to report it to the Mods or An Garda Siochana if you want to make a fool of yourself.

    I think its best if we ignore each other...unless you actually have something relevent to say or when your comprehension improves.

    Best of luck

    Edit:

    Actually, I just copped you joined the site 2 weeks ago. LOL, I wont be reponding to you again :pac: Cant believe I fell for it.


  • #51
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    More nonsense out of you.

    I apologise for being curt but it's hard to debate with people like yourself that have no idea what they are talking about but continue to post as if they do...but hey, thats your problem.

    Please highlight where I threatened anyone with live ammunition. Feel free to report it to the Mods or An Garda Siochana if you want to make a fool of yourself.

    I think its best if we ignore each other...unless you actually have something relevent to say or when your comprehension improves.

    Best of luck

    Edit:

    Actually, I just copped you joined the site 2 weeks ago. LOL, I wont be reponding to you again :pac: Cant believe I fell for it.

    Might be best if you like to dish it out but can't take it, can't control your reactions, and then and resort to inferences about live ammunition.

    So far I haven't seen much reputable behavior from members of the DF here, or evidence of their CO's and PA's enforcing any recent discipline in their Units.

    Certainly no reason for taxpayers to fork out even more of there hard earned taxes for this kind of continued deterioration in DF standards of behavior.


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