The Orville

_Kaiser_ · 20-04-2019 10:11am

is_that_so wrote: »

Not a fan of that one at all. Yet another Seth McFarlane relationship episode and IMO it shows up just how limited The Orville is. It's got to the point where they might as well dispense with the ship for stories.

Don't worry. It looks like there'll be lots of pew pew next week with the Kaylon - either a follow up on the mid-season episodes or maybe as a result of the altered timeline.

While there are a lot of character episodes this year, I think they've successfully gotten the audience engaged with these people, and with the exception of LeMarr I think all of the bridge crew have gotten decent development this year.

Contrast that with Discovery where expensive CGI, moody lighting and pew pew has been used unsuccessfully to cover for the fact that most of the main cast are still effectively extras that we neither know or care about.

It depends on what you want from a show. I'll grant you that the overall trend for Sci-fi in the last few years is towards ever more flashy CGI, dark complex characters and stories, and an even more convoluted season long plot - but there is definitely a place for a lighter, more episodic take on the genre with characters that the audience can relate to and actually like. Y'know like TNG or Voyager.

That's the gap the Orville fits, and it's why it's been more successful at capturing the essence of those previous shows and what people enjoyed about them than Discovery has.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 20-04-2019 10:15am

One character that has dissappeared is the sludge lad.

_Kaiser_ · 20-04-2019 10:18am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

One character that has dissappeared is the sludge lad.

He is still in it. He was a big part of the resolution to the Kaylon two parter, and even in the latest episode he was in it for a scene or two.

I think his sporadic appearances are more down to actor availability and that he's a guest star more than a regular

20-04-2019 11:02am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Don't worry. It looks like there'll be lots of pew pew next week with the Kaylon - either a follow up on the mid-season episodes or maybe as a result of the altered timeline.

While there are a lot of character episodes this year, I think they've successfully gotten the audience engaged with these people, and with the exception of LeMarr I think all of the bridge crew have gotten decent development this year.

Contrast that with Discovery where expensive CGI, moody lighting and pew pew has been used unsuccessfully to cover for the fact that most of the main cast are still effectively extras that we neither know or care about.

It depends on what you want from a show. I'll grant you that the overall trend for Sci-fi in the last few years is towards ever more flashy CGI, dark complex characters and stories, and an even more convoluted season long plot - but there is definitely a place for a lighter, more episodic take on the genre with characters that the audience can relate to and actually like. Y'know like TNG or Voyager.

That's the gap the Orville fits, and it's why it's been more successful at capturing the essence of those previous shows and what people enjoyed about them than Discovery has.

Yes, because Braga is reusing stories to beat the band. He's plagiarising himself half the time

is_that_so · 20-04-2019 11:35am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Don't worry. It looks like there'll be lots of pew pew next week with the Kaylon - either a follow up on the mid-season episodes or maybe as a result of the altered timeline.

While there are a lot of character episodes this year, I think they've successfully gotten the audience engaged with these people, and with the exception of LeMarr I think all of the bridge crew have gotten decent development this year.

Contrast that with Discovery where expensive CGI, moody lighting and pew pew has been used unsuccessfully to cover for the fact that most of the main cast are still effectively extras that we neither know or care about.

It depends on what you want from a show. I'll grant you that the overall trend for Sci-fi in the last few years is towards ever more flashy CGI, dark complex characters and stories, and an even more convoluted season long plot - but there is definitely a place for a lighter, more episodic take on the genre with characters that the audience can relate to and actually like. Y'know like TNG or Voyager.

That's the gap the Orville fits, and it's why it's been more successful at capturing the essence of those previous shows and what people enjoyed about them than Discovery has.

I think it's just become a Seth McFarlane show and I'm pretty much done with it. The episode made no sense in any way whatsoever. The humour is OTT, excessive and often juvenile and episodes vary from the truly execrable to the very mundane. As for TNG and Voyager some people seem to have lost all critical faculties if that's what you're comparing it to.

Who do people relate to apart from him? None of the rest have any personality!

is_that_so · 20-04-2019 11:36am

blade1 wrote: »

And I think you need some!! :pac:

At this stage I probably do to get through an episode!

Tom Mann Centuria · 20-04-2019 12:24pm

is_that_so wrote: »

At this stage I probably do to get through an episode!

Yet somehow you carry on, just so you can share your wisdom with us. You're the hero of our times.

is_that_so · 20-04-2019 12:38pm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Yet somehow you carry on, just so you can share your wisdom with us. You're the hero of our times.

It's called an observation and in fairness I suppose it matters as little as this post!

Tom Mann Centuria · 20-04-2019 1:11pm

is_that_so wrote: »

It's called an observation and in fairness I suppose it matters as little as this post!

True, apologies for snark.

GreeBo · 20-04-2019 6:23pm

is_that_so wrote: »

I think it's just become a Seth McFarlane show and I'm pretty much done with it. The episode made no sense in any way whatsoever. The humour is OTT, excessive and often juvenile and episodes vary from the truly execrable to the very mundane. As for TNG and Voyager some people seem to have lost all critical faculties if that's what you're comparing it to.

Who do people relate to apart from him? None of the rest have any personality!

I'd probably take a Seth McFarlane show over another bloody Michael Burnham show.

Thought this week was good... interesting idea with a clever twist at the end

Blazer · 20-04-2019 8:23pm

is_that_so wrote: »

I think it's just become a Seth McFarlane show and I'm pretty much done with it. The episode made no sense in any way whatsoever. The humour is OTT, excessive and often juvenile and episodes vary from the truly execrable to the very mundane. As for TNG and Voyager some people seem to have lost all critical faculties if that's what you're comparing it to.

Who do people relate to apart from him? None of the rest have any personality!

hello..Scott Grimes?
His episode was fantastic. Unlike Discovery Seth seems to be focusing on the crew a lot more.
Christ I can't even name the bridge crew in Discovery from that Ariam, Pike and Burham and goddamn Tilly.

If Discovery got canned I'd say good riddance.
The Orville on the other hand has gotten stronger since season 1 which I hadn't expected to get renewed as the earlier stuff was a bit cringy.

_Kaiser_ · 21-04-2019 11:54am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, because Braga is reusing stories to beat the band. He's plagiarising himself half the time

As opposed to a show which is being sued for lifting the whole concept of Tardigrades, spores, and many of its central characters from an indy game.

_Kaiser_ · 21-04-2019 12:15pm

is_that_so wrote: »

I think it's just become a Seth McFarlane show and I'm pretty much done with it. The episode made no sense in any way whatsoever. The humour is OTT, excessive and often juvenile and episodes vary from the truly execrable to the very mundane. As for TNG and Voyager some people seem to have lost all critical faculties if that's what you're comparing it to.

Who do people relate to apart from him? None of the rest have any personality!

The humor and juvenile antics have been significantly toned down which was a good move. The episodes themselves, while often character driven, have become more consistently solid with some outstanding ones in between.

As for personalities, they have fleshed out Claire and her kids, Isaac, Gordon, Bortas and Kyden, and Ed and Kelly have grown a fair bit this season too - if anything, the fact that the other characters have gotten more development suggests it's NOT the Seth show. About the only one of the main cast who is lagging behind is LeMarr as I said above.

Contrast to Discovery which is most definitely the Michael Burnham Show, with weekly reminders for the audience of how awesome and amazing she is! FFS they went from having her as the saviour of the Federation and the Klingon Empire last season, to the saviour of the Universe and the future and a literal (Red) Angel this year :rolleyes:

But aside from the irritant that is Tilly, Saru (who's been relegated to a background character for most of the season just finished), Pike (who like Lorca before him was the standout) and Stamets and Culber, we know practically nothing about the 2 women at the helm and ops, the tactical guy, the replacement for Arium (who got a single episode crammed wuth instant back story, friendships and tragedy - but failed to make the audience really care as it came out of nowhere), or the Admiral who in the last few appearances was more background character but somehow we were expected to care about in a nonsensically written heroic sacrifice of invulnerable bulkhead doors with emergency overrides on the same side of an antimatter photon torpedo that didn't destroy the ship despite being wedged in the hull for half the episode.

Discovery doesn't just have bad or anonymous characters, the whole show is badly written but it's covered by flashy effects. Most of the positive reactions I read about the show revolve around how impressive the CGI is or the pew pew. But then that's the audience its aiming for, using a well known brand name as a hook.

It's a hugely less engaging series with far less depth than the supposed interloper that is the Orville.

21-04-2019 1:37pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As opposed to a show which is being sued for lifting the whole concept of Tardigrades, spores, and many of its central characters from an indy game.

That's not the point I'm making. I'm saying it feels so familiar because it is. We've seen it all before, as Braga ground Trek into a repetitive dust.

It's been given a tonne of goodwill through nostalgia and rose tints, I'm also guilty, but saying it captures the real essence of trek hyperbolic.
It's an entertaining mimic but that's what it is.
It COULD be so much more, but prefers to play it safe and tug on the nostalgic heartstrings.

I'm surprised that in this copy character out of time that we didn't hear Kelly's middle name was Tom and she would be Lt. Tom Riker Greyson and grow a goatee

is_that_so · 21-04-2019 10:24pm

Blazer wrote: »

hello..Scott Grimes?
His episode was fantastic. Unlike Discovery Seth seems to be focusing on the crew a lot more.
Christ I can't even name the bridge crew in Discovery from that Ariam, Pike and Burham and goddamn Tilly.

If Discovery got canned I'd say good riddance.
The Orville on the other hand has gotten stronger since season 1 which I hadn't expected to get renewed as the earlier stuff was a bit cringy.

The first two of this season were shocking rubbish. You do need a love for McFarlane and how he does stuff and I'd be the opposite with the crew. There is no substance whatsoever to them. I don't think he can do substance. I wouldn't miss them if they all died in the next episode. Discovery is a different beast and tries to plug loosely into the ST universe. I this it has largely done that despite some of the storylines and the JJ Abrams type vision of ST. Season 3 will allow it to do something else.

is_that_so · 21-04-2019 10:44pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The humor and juvenile antics have been significantly toned down which was a good move. The episodes themselves, while often character driven, have become more consistently solid with some outstanding ones in between.

As for personalities, they have fleshed out Claire and her kids, Isaac, Gordon, Bortas and Kyden, and Ed and Kelly have grown a fair bit this season too - if anything, the fact that the other characters have gotten more development suggests it's NOT the Seth show. About the only one of the main cast who is lagging behind is LeMarr as I said above.

Which is fine but none of them are anyway interesting characters. Isaac and Bortus are pretty much the same cardboard character and the Bortus episode was creepy, never mind the race of extremely dubious morals he comes from. The kids are annoying and Grimes and his buddy just frat boys. The ship doesn't go anywhere and apart from a pew pew (much prefer a good character study myself) it doesn't seem to know where it's going.

Contrast to Discovery which is most definitely the Michael Burnham Show, with weekly reminders for the audience of how awesome and amazing she is! FFS they went from having her as the saviour of the Federation and the Klingon Empire last season, to the saviour of the Universe and the future and a literal (Red) Angel this year :rolleyes:

But aside from the irritant that is Tilly, Saru (who's been relegated to a background character for most of the season just finished), Pike (who like Lorca before him was the standout) and Stamets and Culber, we know practically nothing about the 2 women at the helm and ops, the tactical guy, the replacement for Arium (who got a single episode crammed wuth instant back story, friendships and tragedy - but failed to make the audience really care as it came out of nowhere), or the Admiral who in the last few appearances was more background character but somehow we were expected to care about in a nonsensically written heroic sacrifice of invulnerable bulkhead doors with emergency overrides on the same side of an antimatter photon torpedo that didn't destroy the ship despite being wedged in the hull for half the episode.

Discovery doesn't just have bad or anonymous characters, the whole show is badly written but it's covered by flashy effects. Most of the positive reactions I read about the show revolve around how impressive the CGI is or the pew pew. But then that's the audience its aiming for, using a well known brand name as a hook.

It's a hugely less engaging series with far less depth than the supposed interloper that is the Orville.

Well Discovery is not what I would consider ST. It's set in that universe but has gone its own way but IMO wedged itself in reasonably well. My attitude to it has been to go with the stories for themselves. Some have been enjoyable and some little more than puff pieces. Sure it's largely about her but that's a sign of the times and it almost had to be a character like her. Yeah she's annoying and there are other questionable choices but the main thrust has been the path of Discovery. Moving it forward as they have should allow it get its own voice, but it is still unlikely to become ST! Gotta wait for Picard for that!

corkie · 21-04-2019 11:12pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Gotta wait for Picard for that!

Allot of people pinning hopes on the 'Picard Series', but don't realize it is going to be produce by the same crowd of people (As JJ Movies and Discovery). Governed by the same licensing deal as STD.

Also billed as a 10 hour movie script.

OldMrBrennan83 · 21-04-2019 11:32pm

corkie wrote: »

Allot of people pinning hopes on the 'Picard Series', but don't realize it is going to be produce by the same crowd of people (As JJ Movies and Discovery). Governed by the same licensing deal as STD.

Also billed as a 10 hour movie script.

If it's going to be along the lines of Discovery I couldn't be happier with it.

AMKC · 21-04-2019 11:46pm

Just watched the latest Orville episode now and have to say it was very good although I did not like the Disco scene in the middle bur the rest was all good. Great twist at the end. I do wonder do how did she know if the Doctor was supposed to have stopped her from remembering? Did it not work or did she just miss that part? Does that not now been she is on an alternate timeline and both her and the current Kelly can exist or does it now mean the current timeline changes and Kelly might be Captain next week? If so where is Ed? So many questions. That's makes a good show not just pew pew CGI.

Blazer · 22-04-2019 12:50am

corkie wrote: »

Allot of people pinning hopes on the 'Picard Series', but don't realize it is going to be produce by the same crowd of people (As JJ Movies and Discovery). Governed by the same licensing deal as STD.

Also billed as a 10 hour movie script.

Crap. Well at least I could put up with Picard telling Tilly to “shut the hell up Tilly”.

_Kaiser_ · 22-04-2019 9:45am

corkie wrote: »

Allot of people pinning hopes on the 'Picard Series', but don't realize it is going to be produce by the same crowd of people (As JJ Movies and Discovery). Governed by the same licensing deal as STD.

Also billed as a 10 hour movie script.

Yep, if anything I'm very worried about the Picard series for the reasons above.

If it has the same tone, visual look and over-reliance on CGI and 'splosions as Discovery and the JJ films it'll be bad enough, but I have very little faith in their ability to write a decent story or create engaging characters (although Pike and Lorca would be the exceptions, but I think a lot of that was down to the actors themselves).

As I have seen others say elsewhere, if we get an evolution of TNG Picard then it could have potential, but if it's dune buggy racing action Picard from the movies then that'll fit better with what the producers have done since, but it'll be a far poorer show and could destroy the character.

is_that_so · 22-04-2019 9:49am

corkie wrote: »

Allot of people pinning hopes on the 'Picard Series', but don't realize it is going to be produce by the same crowd of people (As JJ Movies and Discovery). Governed by the same licensing deal as STD.

Also billed as a 10 hour movie script.

It may well be but there's far more scope with a top notch actor like Stewart.

_Kaiser_ · 22-04-2019 9:52am

is_that_so wrote: »

It may well be but there's far more scope with a top notch actor like Stewart.

Yea, the hope would be that he'll be able to rein in some of the more excessive nonsense from the current production crew given how long he's played the character and been connected with the franchise. Plus, they came to him - I'm sure that included some creative control.

But, he has said that it'll be a very different Picard than we know too. That plus Discovery's production team worries me.

is_that_so · 22-04-2019 9:57am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Yea, the hope would be that he'll be able to rein in some of the more excessive nonsense from the current production crew given how long he's played the character and been connected with the franchise. Plus, they came to him - I'm sure that included some creative control.

But, he has said that it'll be a very different Picard than we know too. That plus Discovery's production team worries me.

I can't see an almost octogenarian running around the place and I do expect them to throw in the JJ Abrams fireworks but I'm inclined to trust his call, for now anyway.

_Kaiser_ · 22-04-2019 10:27am

This sums it up well for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN3oAd9mT9c

Of course it's mostly based on rumor and subsequent speculation but they cover the underlying concerns about Picard pretty well.

is_that_so · 22-04-2019 10:34am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This sums it up well for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN3oAd9mT9c

Of course it's mostly based on rumor and subsequent speculation but they cover the underlying concerns about Picard pretty well.

Yeah, have seen that or a version of it. Whole licensing thing is a mess and it's almost like boxing titles! They could all make money from something that does very well. It doesn't mean that it can't focus strongly on the content. I would have thought that name alone is a seller.

blade1 · 26-04-2019 12:36pm

Another good episode!
Let's hope for season 3!

_Kaiser_ · 26-04-2019 1:24pm

That was great. Fantastic season finale. Really hope we get a season 3

Loved the call back to Return of the Jedi with Yaphit

is_that_so · 26-04-2019 4:24pm

Hmm, if your sci-fi show is drifting, you can try any of the options in this, a little bit of SG-1 or just make it Star Wars! Enough plotholes to show just how pointless the previous episode was. Could have gone with this one instead! That said, plenty of plot and great sequences, done with panache and energy and nice to see a familiar face, however briefly!

Very good finale and certainly one of the best episodes of Season 2. If nothing else, the episode is a reminder of the problems with the show - off-key episodes and far too many empty characters and how it can overcome them. Some regular faces are really not missed here and something has to change in Season 3, if it happens. With a tax break dangling for them it might but ratings are a bit iffy.

OldMrBrennan83 · 26-04-2019 7:37pm

I'm about ten minutes in. Have I missed an episode?

The Orville

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