Discovery 2x14 'Such Sweet Sorrow Part 2' [Spoilers Within]

AMKC wrote: »

The idea of Leland going back in time do is a good one and could certainly contribute to the start of the Borg.

Is this Discovery's first two part of season two? How many two part episodes to season one was there?

There wasn't any two part episodes in Season 1 (unless you count the first Two Pilot episodes aboard Shenzhou). The rest of the season was 2 separate arcs across the season (Klingon War and Mirror Universe).

The Borg Origin theory is something I speculated on here, and other like-minded people have had similar ideas.


Hoping the episode lives up to all the HYPE, placed on it.

No Mudd tiein as the actor confirmed he wasn't appearing this season!

liamtech wrote: »

Im really looking forward to it -

I suspect Mudd will be in it unfortunately - his short trek hasnt been referenced so he is due - probably the cliffhanger

As to Leiland/Borg etc - i cant see it happening

I agree with pixelburp that this season has been hit and miss - some amazing episodes but usually followed up with some terrible ones - Really hope the finale is the former

What i have noticed across the Web is that opinion is very divisive and polarizing - For example i hate the 'Disco-Haters' - people who just hate this show for the sake of it, or deny that it is 'Real Star Trek' - complaining constantly about 'canon issues', usually aesthetic ones which dont really matter IMHO

However it seems that genuine honest criticism tends to get regular fans labeled as 'Haters' - its very polarized - Last weeks in particular -

We just have to wait - here's hoping its an epic

Right there with you. We'd disagree on last week's episode, and I really enjoyed the season overall, but you made your points well.

The internet just tends to filter out moderate voices. Extreme views get more clicks, more reactions, more shares. Far from being representative of our collective voices, it's massively skewed towards the few, noisiest.

After watching that, I would much prefer if season 3 focused on the Enterprise. Pike has a lot of offer, and Spock has been decent too.

Also, why did Discovery make the jump after Leland and Control had been neutralised?

Slight bug bear though...how fecking sturdy was that blast door Pike was standing behind!? The photon torpedo took out a fair auld chunk of the Enterprise, just not the bit ten feet in front of it.

Alas, I was quite underwhelmed by that. I was hoping for better, and in the end got very a confused and surprisingly boring space battle scene.

The whole thing with Micheal using the Red Angel does tie up the over arching plot....but it felt very thin. She went back in time to give them....good ideas? I know that all of this was necessary for the end resolution to work...but it did still feel very thin...I had felt that they would do something more *clever* with it.

The Time-travel sequences were very nicely rendered, and later on I did notice a possible reference to the ST:TMP worm hole scene, which was fun.

Some very odd things I didn't like. In one scene, there was a build up to the Leyland / Georgeo fight where Georgeo was having some banter with the Security Chief.

Georgeo: I'll get this door open, and then we'll get Leyland
Security: Yum-Yum!!

"Yum-yum?" Is that really the best you guys could write? That was just stupid, and just wrecked an otherwise OK character as well.

As for the canon-resolving wrap-up at Starfleet:



I was joking earlier in the season with this image...but dammit...this is exactly what they did!! Come on guys...a whole sci-fi universe to play with and you go for a Simpsons joke to wrap it all up?!!

I did like the Classic Spock reveal at the end, but all in all this felt like a massive anti-climax.

I don't think I will want to follow Discovery into the future. If it were the TNG future I might be interested...but I don't think I'll ever be in the mood to want to follow Micheal in her quest to find her mother in the distant future.

It was fun to have a Trek show to watch every week again...but alas until the Picard show comes up, I think that might be all for now.

Enjoyed that episode and tidies things up canon wise.

I was wondering why Burnham didn't just go to the destination with Spock instead of flying there herself. Would've got there quicker.

I thought the torpedo would lead to the cause of Pike's injuries

corkie wrote: »

We know the cause of his injuries in the future, from TOS 'The Menagerie' and from the preview when he touched the Time Crystal.

Yeah just wasn't sure of the location from the crystal, so before the admiral and Number 1 said they would go, I thought Pike would go and we would see it was the same place.

But I did wonder why they don't just make the rest of the ship out of whatever material the blast door is made of.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I’d prefer a Star Trek pre Kirk enterprise myself. We probably wouldn’t have welcomed that before (not with the lack of success of the previous Enterprise) but this is a great Pike.

Agree on that one - but given the mess they made of THIS prequel, I wouldn't trust them with it.

Pike and Lorca are about the only 2 characters that had any real interesting aspects in this show. Even Saru was relegated to an extra for the most part this season.

Of course there is now nothing stopping the writers having Discovery return AFTER the TNG, DS9 etc. timeline and continue from there for a couple of seasons before being sent back to the future to tie in with the short story.

I see people referencing season 3 will be in the future, was the nod at the end not to discovery being in the Beta quadrant and returning back in time? Maybe i missed something but I don't think I'll enjoy season 3 if its 900 years in the future.

A Pike Enterprise series would excite me. I enjoyed the season, I'll need to do a rewatch of the last episode but I felt a few bits where just convenient to ending the series. Like others have said, if that was end of the show then the would have been an excellent ending I think.

That was excellent. So hard to put it all into words.

I dunno, lets see.. by..

3 mins in: Massive Drone defence setting up for an even more epic battle
+1 Trek modernisation

5/6 mins in: successful separation of Trek and Discovery

7/8 mins in (just before opening credits): WOAH!! Two massive drone backed sides about to go at it.

9/10 mins in (just after opening credits): WOAAHHH!!! Massive Drone battle with explosions giving me reminders of that feeling from seeing the modern Battlestar Gallactica using this style for the first time.

At this point I was sold. Looked like they'd spent a fortune on the episode.
Also had been plenty of subtle incorporating of TOS sound effects by the sound crew. Oh you peeps!

13/14 mins in: DID YOU SEE THAT!!!!! Enterprise can ATTAK BUT ENTERPRISE ALSO PROTEK! That one scene alone bringing the feels from a bunch of Deep Space Nine dominion war battles out. The multi-ships, the protect a ship, the shields, the damage, the explosions!

I was like.. phew! episode must be nearly over right?! *checks* nope only one fifth of the way through :eek:

Dammit! Just rewatched that scene about 6 more times in the middle of writing this post!

14/15 mins in: Stamets looked to be mortally wounded! Oh crap!! Spock the only one who can pull Michael back into it!

18/19 mins in: The real Hail Mary pass of the episode. Getting, protecting, and following through the plan of getting Michael to setup the signal and get Discovery away.

Michael got through but Control took advantage of the Shields being down.
+1 Tech understanding.

25/26 mins in: Things feeling bad with shields so low.. KLINGONS! to the rescue. Remember the DS9 scene!!!! Then the Ba'ul and Saru's sister! Then Tyler!! I was like *FIST IN AIR* and then the Empress giving orders and the other klingon looking very Search for Spock and then TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE!

only two fifths of the way through the episode! :eek:

30/31 mins in: gotta give Georgiou and Landry credit for legit presenting control with a logic problem (because, maybe they were lying, maybe not) and getting it to follow them.

30 - 33 mins in: awe no, Stamets and Hugh!
followed just then by..
34/35 mins in: Spock is in trouble all is going wrong.

Hail Mary Time. Let's see what you got Michael!
Time Stood Still. Time for some High Concept SciFi.
Let's remind you of Star Trek The Motion Picture. Let's get you thinking of 2001 A Space Odyssey. Even a little Intersellary.
But Definitely Star Trek. Definitely Discovery.
Then we're good. This can happen, this can work.
The whole season was for this.
Now it's just down to everyone else sticking to the plan and Michael getting through it.

36/37 mins in: RED SHIRTS out the airlock :eek:

40/41 mins in: Cornwell and No 1 working away. Those subtle sound effects again. This time reminding of Wrath of Khan/Search for Spock.
Cornwell looking at the manual release Ah but... but.. but awe.. awe

41/42 mins in: KLINGONS! WADE THROUGH THE RUIN OF YOUR ENEMIES!!!

44/45 mins in: Ah you did well Georgiou. You did well. Control distracted for a good fifth of the episode.

45/46 mins in: OK, well you've warned us OK, nothing can be done. OK Just stand there.. eh yeah I guess. There was only just 15 seconds. Brave to the end. Will miss Admiral Cornwell.

47/48 mins in: Let go Michael. We just had to let go of Cornwell. Well done scriptwriters. A very Spock and Michael a chat that seemed just right for their history.

50 mins in: Oh! Georgiou got control!
+1 Georgiou Danger Level

51 mins in: LOL Tilly somehow reminding me of Scotty

52 - 57 mins: Red Angel + Discovery + Control Defeated + Wormhole/Event Horizon (looking thing)
Goodbye Discovery. See you next season.
Those marvelous visual effects!
and again +1 Georgiou Danger Level

57 - 59 mins: Golden Gate bridge! Highlight of the interviews: No 1 calling herself Number 1 Really felt like they were making a deal about who the interviewer might be.
Felt like they sorted out an omission of Discovery from future timeline discussions.

1hr to 1hr 4 mins - Rebuilt Enterprise! TOS Spock! That felt just fine! Sound effect crew on point again!

1hr 4 mins to End - the credits music! lovely! Discovery mix with TOS. Just felt right! Well done Jeff Russo and crew!

Thought it was an excellent episode. Slydice sums it up very succinctly
Pike going down to the photon torpedo - was that look saying is this it then the admiral saying now is not your time

Felt like I was watching a movie, couldn't believe I was only 30 minutes into it when I checked the time

Defo gonna miss Pike (he's said he might be open to a Pike series)

Saru: "Evasive pattern Delta 5"

Every ship sitting face to face, not moving, blasting the ****e outta each other for the rest of the episode

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Although The Voyage Home had a similar sequence when they slingshot as I recall

It was more The Motion Picture I felt...Voyage Home had this wierd thing where everyone turned into CGI heads that morphed into each-other....then a Space Whale!

I had to suspend A LOT of disbelief (the amazing blast door, Leland cyborg crap fighting skills, the stereotypical kill-Leland-and-the-rest-just-go-ro-sleep) but I did enjoy the episode. The cgi and tenor if the episode were very good and it opens up a lot of possibilities, especially a Pike/Spock series.

But I have a question and a timey-wimey issue:
How did Burnham let off her red signals?

And the timey-wimey issue of the purpose of her signals: she only knew where to set the signals because she had experienced Terralysium etc. But she only experienced them because she had set the signals herself. And she only knew where to set them because she had experienced them. And so on

Bit of a messy episode. Entertaining in parts but mostly nonsense.

One good thing about being in the future is they can concentrate on episode centric episodes
There's no reason for any overarching story line - that will likely please a lot of people, and maybe less Michael is the center of everything.

(as for the blast doors - that's been the trope of many sci-fi films, bit like why radiation doesn't travel thru glass...)

edit
Oh unless the war from Calypso comes in to play but then Discovery's AI doesn't know about it...hmmm...

TaurenDruid wrote: »

If Trek ships had always had fleets of fighters/shuttles and drones - fair enough. I'd say they're not as cool as BSG, but sure, go for it. But they don't. And they didn't last season, when there was a whole war with the Klingons going on! So assuming roughly proportional numbers of drones on the Section 31 fleet, it was just hugely improbable that Discoprise survived for more than 5 minutes.

* The Blast Door of Imperviousness! (tm) Yeah, as someone mentioned, why not just make the whole hull out of that material!

* Leland/Control is dead? Yay, we win! But I'll still just fly off on a one-way trip to the future...

Control Nanite's converting the S31 Ships into probes, not that the ships always had that many probes. Reason we don't really see the ships move, destructed to form the probes.

The Blast door logic is bad, why is the handle on the inside only. And as point out side to side transport to get her out of there?

They wheren't certain that Control was fully destroyed, but only deactivated. Also stuck in timeline paradox where they had to fulfill it to the end path.