Discovery 2x14 'Such Sweet Sorrow Part 2' [Spoilers Within]

TheValeyard

This is it folks. The final episode of season two.
Will canon link up?
Will Michael save the galaxy?
Will Control become V'ger, The Borg, or just a random AI?
Will Discovery be sent forward in time?
Will Leland be thrown back in time to the Delta Quadrant?

Promo:

Looks like plenty of Pew Pew to be had, a black hole, explosions, Michael saving civilization as we know it, Spock in a shuttle





See you all for the Picard show!

corkie

Anyone look at the leak photo's for this episode?

Do they spoil anything? Hesitant to look myself.

pixelburp

The road has been a touch bumpy, and seems like last weeks was the most divisive, but I'm still stoked about the finale.

And knowing there's definitely a season 3 coming, I'm also prepared for the inevitable "WTF???" cliffhanger moment at the end

AMKC

I was thinking about this last night and thinking about how someone said they hope Discovery is not sent 900 hundred years into the future as a universe with no life would make for a very boring series and I agree but what if its not 900 hundred yeas but maybe 700 hundred or 800 hundred yeas into the future it is sent and its sent there to stop all life being destroyed and the crew spend the rest of their journeys and life in that time. Discovery we see in the short Trek is it after the crew have all died after being to the future and saving all life. I know could be a bit far fetched but just a thought I had.

The idea of Leland going back in time do is a good one and could certainly contribute to the start of the Borg.

Is this Discovery's first two part of season two? How many two part episodes to season one was there?

corkie

AMKC wrote: »

The idea of Leland going back in time do is a good one and could certainly contribute to the start of the Borg.

Is this Discovery's first two part of season two? How many two part episodes to season one was there?

There wasn't any two part episodes in Season 1 (unless you count the first Two Pilot episodes aboard Shenzhou). The rest of the season was 2 separate arcs across the season (Klingon War and Mirror Universe).

The Borg Origin theory is something I speculated on here, and other like-minded people have had similar ideas.


Hoping the episode lives up to all the HYPE, placed on it.

liamtech

Im really looking forward to it -

I suspect Mudd will be in it unfortunately - his short trek hasnt been referenced so he is due - probably the cliffhanger

As to Leiland/Borg etc - i cant see it happening

I agree with pixelburp that this season has been hit and miss - some amazing episodes but usually followed up with some terrible ones - Really hope the finale is the former

What i have noticed across the Web is that opinion is very divisive and polarizing - For example i hate the 'Disco-Haters' - people who just hate this show for the sake of it, or deny that it is 'Real Star Trek' - complaining constantly about 'canon issues', usually aesthetic ones which dont really matter IMHO

However it seems that genuine honest criticism tends to get regular fans labeled as 'Haters' - its very polarized - Last weeks in particular -

We just have to wait - here's hoping its an epic

corkie

No Mudd tiein as the actor confirmed he wasn't appearing this season!

TheValeyard

corkie wrote: »

No Mudd tiein as the actor confirmed he wasn't appearing this season!

I actually enjoyed his role. Also thought the many deaths of Captain Lorca was kinda funny.

AtomicHorror

liamtech wrote: »

Im really looking forward to it -

I suspect Mudd will be in it unfortunately - his short trek hasnt been referenced so he is due - probably the cliffhanger

As to Leiland/Borg etc - i cant see it happening

I agree with pixelburp that this season has been hit and miss - some amazing episodes but usually followed up with some terrible ones - Really hope the finale is the former

What i have noticed across the Web is that opinion is very divisive and polarizing - For example i hate the 'Disco-Haters' - people who just hate this show for the sake of it, or deny that it is 'Real Star Trek' - complaining constantly about 'canon issues', usually aesthetic ones which dont really matter IMHO

However it seems that genuine honest criticism tends to get regular fans labeled as 'Haters' - its very polarized - Last weeks in particular -

We just have to wait - here's hoping its an epic

Right there with you. We'd disagree on last week's episode, and I really enjoyed the season overall, but you made your points well.

The internet just tends to filter out moderate voices. Extreme views get more clicks, more reactions, more shares. Far from being representative of our collective voices, it's massively skewed towards the few, noisiest.

liamtech

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Right there with you. We'd disagree on last week's episode, and I really enjoyed the season overall, but you made your points well.

The internet just tends to filter out moderate voices. Extreme views get more clicks, more reactions, more shares. Far from being representative of our collective voices, it's massively skewed towards the few, noisiest.

I appreciate your words

What i find is the polarization is pretty intense surrounding the show, and 'haters' seem to latch on to everything they can - The Talosians didnt look Talosian - lol.. ridiculous nitpicking for probably the best episode of the show so far

But again, some of the episodes, (last weeks for me in particular), they dont do the show any favors and just give the 'haters' fuel to use attacking Discovery.

Which in turn polarizes Trekkie die hards into attacking the moderate fan who loves trek, but finds fault in episodes! It wasnt always this polarizing

I remember having an argument with a trekkie about Enterprise 'Silent Enemy' and whether the unnamed Aliens are related to the ones from TNGs 'Times Arrow' - and of course arguing about enterprise being not altogether what it should have been - but we never accused each other of being 'haters'! lol

Spear

If I didn't know there was already a season 3 being worked on, I'd swear I'd just seen a series finale, not a season finale, and one that seemed to fairly explicitly hand-off to a separate Pike based show. Even the end credit music seemed to reinforce this.

That giggle from Georgiou was wonderfully creepy

Doodah7

That was wrapped up neatly and tied off with a bow!! No need for a third season I would have thought?

Dave0301

After watching that, I would much prefer if season 3 focused on the Enterprise. Pike has a lot of offer, and Spock has been decent too.

Also, why did Discovery make the jump after Leland and Control had been neutralised?

Slight bug bear though...how fecking sturdy was that blast door Pike was standing behind!? The photon torpedo took out a fair auld chunk of the Enterprise, just not the bit ten feet in front of it.

liamtech

Just watched it - a Decent Episode - not the best of the Season - Overall Season was Weak in my mind

Signals/Red Angel - Yea it all added up in the end so, happy about that

I would like to know though - WHY did they start making the suit this week??? Would that not have been a better activity to undertake last week, you know, instead of all the goodbyes and discussions about love and JUST HOW AWESOME Burnham is?

Control/AI/Leland - Im disappointed by the lack of even a wink in the direction of the Borg - It seemed WAY WAY too close for comfort, and sadly i think i called it a while ago - The writers were in fact winding us up

Discovery's Faith - Interesting - didnt expect the Reboot that we got but all the same it will be interesting - As an Aside we know that Georgiouwill return for the S31 Show, which does suggest disco might return to the 23rd century, does it not?

Spock - Well there you go! lol

Pike - I would normally exclaim 'PROMOTE THAT MAN' but that could be bad news for him so lets not do that

OVERALL SEASON

Despite some amazing outings, i think it was overall a weak one for me - certainly weaker than season one - This weeks was decent, which for me only amplifies the question as to what happened with last weeks story - they could easily have had some of this weeks plot Placed in last weeks episode to bulk up on its incredibly weak plot

But that kinda sums up the season as a whole for me - 4-5 GREAT EPISODES (one in particular was epic) mixed in with moderate and sometimes dull stories

Im happy that it worked out - and i am MORE THAN curious of where things go from here - Disco in the 32nd Century? Disco Returns? will certainly be interesting to see what happens -

Given our knowledge that Pike is gone, i am annoyed we wont get a season with enterprise, pike, spock, and Number one -

TheValeyard

You know what, that was a good deal ending.

It also did wrap things up nicely with canon. I like clean shaven Spock in Uniform. We definitely need a Pike show!

3280 here we come!

Also, a lot of us here have been calling this future jump scenario all the way since season one.

-go away, spinny camera
-"in English please" stahp
-"how long will that take" "4 mins" "can you cut that in half" "violate the basic laws of physics? Uhh no" - haha love that twist on the usual YOU HAVE X/2 TIME
-i love the little fixer robots!
I love anson mount. And hipster spock
That was awesome

Franz Von Peppercorn

So there could be a series set on the Enterprise pre Kirk. I am sure that CBS were aware that was an option if they always had this ending in mind. Discovery in the future at least escapes the Canon ( peace be upon it) so there will be fewer complaints in that direction. Its also in the alpha quadrant ( iirc) so it could be interesting. A post star fleet future?

Franz Von Peppercorn

liamtech wrote: »

Control/AI/Leland - Im disappointed by the lack of even a wink in the direction of the Borg - It seemed WAY WAY too close for comfort, and sadly i think i called it a while ago - The writers were in fact winding us up

Honestly never got that at all. Not once. One is a full artificial intelligence, the other is a hive mind of intelligent augmented carbon beings.

Rawr

Alas, I was quite underwhelmed by that. I was hoping for better, and in the end got very a confused and surprisingly boring space battle scene.

The whole thing with Micheal using the Red Angel does tie up the over arching plot....but it felt very thin. She went back in time to give them....good ideas? I know that all of this was necessary for the end resolution to work...but it did still feel very thin...I had felt that they would do something more *clever* with it.

The Time-travel sequences were very nicely rendered, and later on I did notice a possible reference to the ST:TMP worm hole scene, which was fun.

Some very odd things I didn't like. In one scene, there was a build up to the Leyland / Georgeo fight where Georgeo was having some banter with the Security Chief.

Georgeo: I'll get this door open, and then we'll get Leyland
Security: Yum-Yum!!

"Yum-yum?" Is that really the best you guys could write? That was just stupid, and just wrecked an otherwise OK character as well.

As for the canon-resolving wrap-up at Starfleet:



I was joking earlier in the season with this image...but dammit...this is exactly what they did!! Come on guys...a whole sci-fi universe to play with and you go for a Simpsons joke to wrap it all up?!!

I did like the Classic Spock reveal at the end, but all in all this felt like a massive anti-climax.

I don't think I will want to follow Discovery into the future. If it were the TNG future I might be interested...but I don't think I'll ever be in the mood to want to follow Micheal in her quest to find her mother in the distant future.

It was fun to have a Trek show to watch every week again...but alas until the Picard show comes up, I think that might be all for now.

liamtech

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Honestly never got that at all. Not once. One is a full artificial intelligence, the other is a hive mind of intelligent augmented carbon beings.

I think there was far too much 'Borg-Like' stuff for us not to conclude that it was linked to them

Dialogue - From 'Struggle is pointless' - to the ships being controlled by 'Drones' with no life signs

Technology - Leland was assimilated by Nano probes - as was the other guy, leading us down the road of an AI controlled decentralized Hive Mind

Artificial intelligence - i will watch Q - Who later but i immediately remember the line of dialogue when they discovered Borg Babies in maturation Chambers

'What Riker finds astounding is that the Borg have developed the technology to link artificial intelligence directly into the humanoid brain. ' from memory Alpha

Borg Origin - Guinan explained the origin of the Collective in terms of it being 'Made up of Biological and artificial life that has been evolving for centuries' -

It is really simple for me to see how people thought it was the Borg - and if Fans thought of it then so did the writers -

That said im not going to complain it wasnt a bad episode - i enjoyed it, if not the season as a whole

CastorTroy

Enjoyed that episode and tidies things up canon wise.

I was wondering why Burnham didn't just go to the destination with Spock instead of flying there herself. Would've got there quicker.

I thought the torpedo would lead to the cause of Pike's injuries

corkie

CastorTroy wrote: »

I thought the torpedo would lead to the cause of Pike's injuries

We know the cause of his injuries in the future, from TOS 'The Menagerie' and from the preview when he touched the Time Crystal.




Wasted opportunity to hint at a possible 'Borg' Origin story.

Killing Leland (cutting head of control off).

Looks like they are bowing to fan pressure to have Season 3 in the future.

Section 31 as known organization in this time-frame left unresolved.

Have another re-watch of this episode this afternoon.

CastorTroy

corkie wrote: »

We know the cause of his injuries in the future, from TOS 'The Menagerie' and from the preview when he touched the Time Crystal.

Yeah just wasn't sure of the location from the crystal, so before the admiral and Number 1 said they would go, I thought Pike would go and we would see it was the same place.

But I did wonder why they don't just make the rest of the ship out of whatever material the blast door is made of.

_Kaiser_

Well, that was pretty much as expected...

- confusing spinning cameras and CGI overload to mask the disjointed mess that was the big battle scene. All that was missing was a Optimus Prime voice over and it could have been a Michael Bay movie

- despite this, there's numerous time outs for relationship drama with Stamets and Culver, Mikey and Spock, Pike and the Admiral

- Tilly gets to be irritating in every scene she's in.. Check!

- Stupid fist fights with Leland.. Why - besides yet another Michelle does Kung Fu scene. Why did he not just assimilate her or whatever?

- 10/15 minutes later they're still working on the torpedo that was supposed to detonate long beforehand but it gives Admiral idiocy a chance for a heroic death and another deep moment with Pike - who just stands there as the torpedo explodes in his face

- and in the end, despite the misdirection with Burnham's mother, Mikey is indeed the Red Angel and the source of everything this season and saviour of the universe :rolleyes: We get an Interstellar style sequence and flashback montages. She's also Spock's saviour and heart too of course! Oh, and she sets up what will be the relationship between him, Kirk and McCoy - isn't she just the bestest! :rolleyes:

Then we finally get to the Canon clean ups that were promised and again its a cop out...

- Discovery, its crew, and Mikey Burnham all removed from the timeline

- Tyler becomes head of a revamped Section 31 that will bring it in line with what we know

But the most ridiculous part?? Well we just won't talk about Burnham, Discovery, spore drives, red angels or anything connected with the last 2 seasons of this show.. Grand so!

And with that this mess draws to a close... Or it would if they hadn't allegedly green lit a third season. Wtf will that be about? Even the end credits music suggests it's done.

I'm torn. The episode itself was mostly nonsense as expected but if its all actually over I can live with it.

Spear

Michelle Yeoh has publicly stated that Discovery season 3 will be filmed before the Section 31 show.

Which kinda undermines much of the main gimmick of the entire season 2 if we know they end up back where they started.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I’d prefer a Star Trek pre Kirk enterprise myself. We probably wouldn’t have welcomed that before (not with the lack of success of the previous Enterprise) but this is a great Pike.

_Kaiser_

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I’d prefer a Star Trek pre Kirk enterprise myself. We probably wouldn’t have welcomed that before (not with the lack of success of the previous Enterprise) but this is a great Pike.

Agree on that one - but given the mess they made of THIS prequel, I wouldn't trust them with it.

Pike and Lorca are about the only 2 characters that had any real interesting aspects in this show. Even Saru was relegated to an extra for the most part this season.

Johnny Storm

Spear wrote: »

If I didn't know there was already a season 3 being worked on, I'd swear I'd just seen a series finale, not a season finale, and one that seemed to fairly explicitly hand-off to a separate Pike based show....

^ +100 - I'm stoked for the new Pike/Spock show!

Meh episode at best, I'm sorry to have to say.
How could a huge space battle with excellent graphics actually be boring ? - quite an achievement in its own way .... :mad:
Did we really need to see each of the signals being created?
Fairly meh season overall too with a few good moments

Doodah7

Of course there is now nothing stopping the writers having Discovery return AFTER the TNG, DS9 etc. timeline and continue from there for a couple of seasons before being sent back to the future to tie in with the short story.

corkie

Temporal Prime Directive

Regulation 157, Section 3, Paragraph 18: Starfleet officers shall take all necessary precautions to minimize any participation in historical events.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Temporal_Prime_Directive
https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Temporal_Prime_Directive


Also the method used to to activate the time crystal from the prior suggested that only one trip was possible before it failed, yet Micheal was able to make multiple jumps to the past.

duffman13

I see people referencing season 3 will be in the future, was the nod at the end not to discovery being in the Beta quadrant and returning back in time? Maybe i missed something but I don't think I'll enjoy season 3 if its 900 years in the future.

A Pike Enterprise series would excite me. I enjoyed the season, I'll need to do a rewatch of the last episode but I felt a few bits where just convenient to ending the series. Like others have said, if that was end of the show then the would have been an excellent ending I think.

corkie

duffman13 wrote: »

I see people referencing season 3 will be in the future, was the nod at the end not to discovery being in the Beta quadrant and returning back in time? Maybe i missed something but I don't think I'll enjoy season 3 if its 900 years in the future.

That was just Micheal sending the last signal, to let Spock know all was well!


Alex Kurtzman Confirms ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season 3 Destination, Hears Fans On Pike Series

Slydice

That was excellent. So hard to put it all into words.

I dunno, lets see.. by..

3 mins in: Massive Drone defence setting up for an even more epic battle
+1 Trek modernisation

5/6 mins in: successful separation of Trek and Discovery

7/8 mins in (just before opening credits): WOAH!! Two massive drone backed sides about to go at it.

9/10 mins in (just after opening credits): WOAAHHH!!! Massive Drone battle with explosions giving me reminders of that feeling from seeing the modern Battlestar Gallactica using this style for the first time.

At this point I was sold. Looked like they'd spent a fortune on the episode.
Also had been plenty of subtle incorporating of TOS sound effects by the sound crew. Oh you peeps!

13/14 mins in: DID YOU SEE THAT!!!!! Enterprise can ATTAK BUT ENTERPRISE ALSO PROTEK! That one scene alone bringing the feels from a bunch of Deep Space Nine dominion war battles out. The multi-ships, the protect a ship, the shields, the damage, the explosions!

I was like.. phew! episode must be nearly over right?! *checks* nope only one fifth of the way through :eek:

Dammit! Just rewatched that scene about 6 more times in the middle of writing this post!

14/15 mins in: Stamets looked to be mortally wounded! Oh crap!! Spock the only one who can pull Michael back into it!

18/19 mins in: The real Hail Mary pass of the episode. Getting, protecting, and following through the plan of getting Michael to setup the signal and get Discovery away.

Michael got through but Control took advantage of the Shields being down.
+1 Tech understanding.

25/26 mins in: Things feeling bad with shields so low.. KLINGONS! to the rescue. Remember the DS9 scene!!!! Then the Ba'ul and Saru's sister! Then Tyler!! I was like *FIST IN AIR* and then the Empress giving orders and the other klingon looking very Search for Spock and then TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE!

only two fifths of the way through the episode! :eek:

30/31 mins in: gotta give Georgiou and Landry credit for legit presenting control with a logic problem (because, maybe they were lying, maybe not) and getting it to follow them.

30 - 33 mins in: awe no, Stamets and Hugh!
followed just then by..
34/35 mins in: Spock is in trouble all is going wrong.

Hail Mary Time. Let's see what you got Michael!
Time Stood Still. Time for some High Concept SciFi.
Let's remind you of Star Trek The Motion Picture. Let's get you thinking of 2001 A Space Odyssey. Even a little Intersellary.
But Definitely Star Trek. Definitely Discovery.
Then we're good. This can happen, this can work.
The whole season was for this.
Now it's just down to everyone else sticking to the plan and Michael getting through it.

36/37 mins in: RED SHIRTS out the airlock :eek:

40/41 mins in: Cornwell and No 1 working away. Those subtle sound effects again. This time reminding of Wrath of Khan/Search for Spock.
Cornwell looking at the manual release Ah but... but.. but awe.. awe

41/42 mins in: KLINGONS! WADE THROUGH THE RUIN OF YOUR ENEMIES!!!

44/45 mins in: Ah you did well Georgiou. You did well. Control distracted for a good fifth of the episode.

45/46 mins in: OK, well you've warned us OK, nothing can be done. OK Just stand there.. eh yeah I guess. There was only just 15 seconds. Brave to the end. Will miss Admiral Cornwell.

47/48 mins in: Let go Michael. We just had to let go of Cornwell. Well done scriptwriters. A very Spock and Michael a chat that seemed just right for their history.

50 mins in: Oh! Georgiou got control!
+1 Georgiou Danger Level

51 mins in: LOL Tilly somehow reminding me of Scotty

52 - 57 mins: Red Angel + Discovery + Control Defeated + Wormhole/Event Horizon (looking thing)
Goodbye Discovery. See you next season.
Those marvelous visual effects!
and again +1 Georgiou Danger Level

57 - 59 mins: Golden Gate bridge! Highlight of the interviews: No 1 calling herself Number 1 Really felt like they were making a deal about who the interviewer might be.
Felt like they sorted out an omission of Discovery from future timeline discussions.

1hr to 1hr 4 mins - Rebuilt Enterprise! TOS Spock! That felt just fine! Sound effect crew on point again!

1hr 4 mins to End - the credits music! lovely! Discovery mix with TOS. Just felt right! Well done Jeff Russo and crew!

_Kaiser_

Johnny Storm wrote: »

^ +100 - I'm stoked for the new Pike/Spock show!

I would watch that, but I imagine the controversies and disruption to such a show would be even worse than Discovery

Meh episode at best, I'm sorry to have to say.
How could a huge space battle with excellent graphics actually be boring ? - quite an achievement in its own way .... :mad:

Because overloading on CGI and dizzying camera cuts alone are not enough to generate tension or excitement. The battle was dragged out over three-quarters of the episode, much of it happened off screen or it was impossible to see what was going on, and the long monologues and soap opera intermissions certainly didn't help either.

Did we really need to see each of the signals being created?

It used up run time and was another way to tell us how Burnham is the bestest character ever in Trek - literally the saviour of the Universe and all life in it. An actual (Red) Angel who is loved and worshipped by everyone whose lives she touched. Suppose they had to top her saving the Federation and Klingon empire (from a war she helped instigate) last season

:rolleyes:

Fairly meh season overall too with a few good moments

Replace "meh" with awful and you're spot on!

OldMrBrennan83

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I would watch that, but I imagine the controversies and disruption to such a show would be even worse than Discovery



Because overloading on CGI and dizzying camera cuts alone are not enough to generate tension or excitement. The battle was dragged out over three-quarters of the episode, much of it happened off screen or it was impossible to see what was going on, and the long monologues and soap opera intermissions certainly didn't help either.



It used up run time and was another way to tell us how Burnham is the bestest character ever in Trek - literally the saviour of the Universe and all life in it. An actual (Red) Angel who is loved and worshipped by everyone whose lives she touched. Suppose they had to top her saving the Federation and Klingon empire (from a war she helped instigate) last season

:rolleyes:




Replace "meh" with awful and you're spot on!

I'm just glad you won't have to watch it any more.

_Kaiser_

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

I'm just glad you won't have to watch it any more.

I always laugh at this sentiment.

Unlike some of the more vocal YouTubers, I don't let this drivel personally affect me. It's 43 minutes of my life a week that I watch in between better shows (and this week's Orville topped it again).

But the show is so full of conveniences, soap opera drama, outright illogical premises, and a godawful Mary Sue lead character that I have no problem with calling this crap out.

Maybe there should be a "Positive reviews only" thread for those who have issues with differing views

Spear

Some disparate rambling thoughts...

So what happened to what we saw in Calypso? Was that an intended ending that got dropped in the reshoots in January? While the Mudd focussed Short Trek didn't matter in the larger arc, the rest all did, leaving Calypso as an oddity in presenting significant events which didn't figure into the season.


Did anyone else get the impression that the wormhole time dilation effects were a callback to The Motion Picture?

_Kaiser_

Spear wrote: »

Some disparate rambling thoughts...

So what happened to what we saw in Calypso? Was that an intended ending that got dropped in the reshoots in January? While the Mudd focussed Short Trek didn't matter in the larger arc, the rest all did, leaving Calypso as an oddity in presenting significant events which didn't figure into the season.

Well it suggested that Discovery was going to end up in the far future which is has. The AI in that short Trek is probably just a result of the sphere data continuing to integrate with the ship's systems over time.

It still works too if the crew abandon Discovery for some reason in the next season

Did anyone else get the impression that the wormhole time dilation effects were a callback to The Motion Picture?

Reminded me more of Interstellar and 2001 myself. Although The Voyage Home had a similar sequence when they slingshot as I recall

fritzelly

Thought it was an excellent episode. Slydice sums it up very succinctly
Pike going down to the photon torpedo - was that look saying is this it then the admiral saying now is not your time

Felt like I was watching a movie, couldn't believe I was only 30 minutes into it when I checked the time

Defo gonna miss Pike (he's said he might be open to a Pike series)

liamtech

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Reminded me more of Interstellar and 2001 myself. Although The Voyage Home had a similar sequence when they slingshot as I recall

Yea it was very 2001 in my opinion - i kinda think TMP and TVH stole their effects ideas from 2001 tbh but i wont nit pick - 2001 is, IMHO, the greatest Science fiction film of all time so im fine with shows and movies paying homage

duffman13

Saru: "Evasive pattern Delta 5"

Every ship sitting face to face, not moving, blasting the ****e outta each other for the rest of the episode

TheValeyard

Yeah the time travel felt very 2001 style.

I did think the space battle was hard to follow. All those Drones whizzing everywhere.

The D7s were class. And it's nice to see the Klingon Ramming ship was not a bizarre one off thing.


A Pike Enterprise show would be class.

Rawr

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Although The Voyage Home had a similar sequence when they slingshot as I recall

It was more The Motion Picture I felt...Voyage Home had this wierd thing where everyone turned into CGI heads that morphed into each-other....then a Space Whale!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65nSJrF-zgw

_Kaiser_

Kurtzman with some stuff on the end of S2/future of S3...

Kurtzman talked about how the decision to jump the show into the 33rd century frees them up:

We love playing within canon. It’s a delight and a privilege. It’s fun to explore nooks and crannies of the universe that people haven’t fully explored yet. That being said, we felt strongly that we wanted to give ourselves an entirely new energy for season three with a whole new set of problems. We’re farther than any Trek show has ever gone. I also had experience working on the [J.J. Abrams] films where we were stuck with canonical problems. We knew how Kirk had died, and we wondered how we could put him in jeopardy to make it feel real. That’s what led us to go with an alternate timeline; suddenly we could tell the story in a very unpredictable way. That’s the same thought process that went into jumping 950 years into the future. We’re now completely free of canon, and we have a whole new universe to explore.

Sounds more like they're conceding defeat to the notion that Discovery was EVER going to fit in with Canon, so they're just going to bypass it entirely and go so far into the future it'll bypass everything that's aired before (or due to air with Picard, Section 31 etc)

Smart move. Something they should have done really from the start, but we'll see if it pays off. The issue of the deeply unlikable and now Godlike Burnham still has to be dealt with

alchemist33

I had to suspend A LOT of disbelief (the amazing blast door, Leland cyborg crap fighting skills, the stereotypical kill-Leland-and-the-rest-just-go-ro-sleep) but I did enjoy the episode. The cgi and tenor if the episode were very good and it opens up a lot of possibilities, especially a Pike/Spock series.

But I have a question and a timey-wimey issue:
How did Burnham let off her red signals?

And the timey-wimey issue of the purpose of her signals: she only knew where to set the signals because she had experienced Terralysium etc. But she only experienced them because she had set the signals herself. And she only knew where to set them because she had experienced them. And so on

corkie

Overall opinions on the Season?

I enjoyed the ride, even with me getting on the canon band wagon in a few posts. Got Caught in the youtube media hype.

There is problems sure with the 'LOGIC' and 'Time Paradoxes' in the show that don't make proper sense. When you look at it critically.

But the overall season was enjoyable, with quality high points.


..... Your thoughts, or should this discussion be for another thread.

Spear wrote: »

Some disparate rambling thoughts...

So what happened to what we saw in Calypso? Was that an intended ending that got dropped in the reshoots in January? While the Mudd focussed Short Trek didn't matter in the larger arc, the rest all did, leaving Calypso as an oddity in presenting significant events which didn't figure into the season.

At present just look at 'Calypso' as a kind of Easter Egg short. It could be a possibility in some timeline where control succeed. Or could be how the show exits at the end of it's run.

We knew that Mudd short wasn't getting a Tie-in and that he wasn't appearing this season. So unless some robot version of him survives to future, it is unlikely he will make appearance in discovery again. Maybe just away to say goodbye to the character.

We yet to find out what timeframe the S31 show will be set in, we could be looking at it's evolution up to this point in time. Or well in to the future after Season 3 airs?


The script certainly looks like it was laid out and written before season 3 got the go ahead.

Goodshape

Bit of a messy episode. Entertaining in parts but mostly nonsense.

TaurenDruid

"Mostly nonsense" sums it up pretty well, I think.

* I mean, there were what, 30-something ships surrounding Disco and Enterprise. There's even some dialogue where Georgiou says to Leland "You only have 30 ships, we have 200" - and he says "Count again!" and his fleet's drones launch...

If Trek ships had always had fleets of fighters/shuttles and drones - fair enough. I'd say they're not as cool as BSG, but sure, go for it. But they don't. And they didn't last season, when there was a whole war with the Klingons going on! So assuming roughly proportional numbers of drones on the Section 31 fleet, it was just hugely improbable that Discoprise survived for more than 5 minutes.

* "Burnham, you have to do the flying-into-the-future thing, any second now! Hurry!" "4 minutes until the time crystal is charged!" "Suit's ready - run!"

"Ok, we're ready to go right now, but now it's just me and my brother, we're going to ignore the raging battle and impending deaths of our friends and possibly all organic life that any delay might cause and have some poignant chats and feels... And... done. Right, there goes Spock to his shuttle. Walking. Slowly."

* The Blast Door of Imperviousness! (tm) Yeah, as someone mentioned, why not just make the whole hull out of that material!

* Leland/Control is dead? Yay, we win! But I'll still just fly off on a one-way trip to the future...

Overall, I really enjoyed the series, but that ending... pacing, logic, and Mary Sue-ism were huge problems.

fritzelly

One good thing about being in the future is they can concentrate on episode centric episodes
There's no reason for any overarching story line - that will likely please a lot of people, and maybe less Michael is the center of everything.

(as for the blast doors - that's been the trope of many sci-fi films, bit like why radiation doesn't travel thru glass...)

edit
Oh unless the war from Calypso comes in to play but then Discovery's AI doesn't know about it...hmmm...

Goodshape

fritzelly wrote: »

One good thing about being in the future is they can concentrate on episode centric episodes

I doubt that unfortunately.

corkie

TaurenDruid wrote: »

If Trek ships had always had fleets of fighters/shuttles and drones - fair enough. I'd say they're not as cool as BSG, but sure, go for it. But they don't. And they didn't last season, when there was a whole war with the Klingons going on! So assuming roughly proportional numbers of drones on the Section 31 fleet, it was just hugely improbable that Discoprise survived for more than 5 minutes.

* The Blast Door of Imperviousness! (tm) Yeah, as someone mentioned, why not just make the whole hull out of that material!

* Leland/Control is dead? Yay, we win! But I'll still just fly off on a one-way trip to the future...

Control Nanite's converting the S31 Ships into probes, not that the ships always had that many probes. Reason we don't really see the ships move, destructed to form the probes.

The Blast door logic is bad, why is the handle on the inside only. And as point out side to side transport to get her out of there?

They wheren't certain that Control was fully destroyed, but only deactivated. Also stuck in timeline paradox where they had to fulfill it to the end path.