Discovery 2x14 'Such Sweet Sorrow Part 2' [Spoilers Within]

TheValeyard

This is it folks. The final episode of season two.
Will canon link up?
Will Michael save the galaxy?
Will Control become V'ger, The Borg, or just a random AI?
Will Discovery be sent forward in time?
Will Leland be thrown back in time to the Delta Quadrant?

Promo:

Looks like plenty of Pew Pew to be had, a black hole, explosions, Michael saving civilization as we know it, Spock in a shuttle





See you all for the Picard show!

corkie

Anyone look at the leak photo's for this episode?

Do they spoil anything? Hesitant to look myself.

pixelburp

The road has been a touch bumpy, and seems like last weeks was the most divisive, but I'm still stoked about the finale.

And knowing there's definitely a season 3 coming, I'm also prepared for the inevitable "WTF???" cliffhanger moment at the end

AMKC

I was thinking about this last night and thinking about how someone said they hope Discovery is not sent 900 hundred years into the future as a universe with no life would make for a very boring series and I agree but what if its not 900 hundred yeas but maybe 700 hundred or 800 hundred yeas into the future it is sent and its sent there to stop all life being destroyed and the crew spend the rest of their journeys and life in that time. Discovery we see in the short Trek is it after the crew have all died after being to the future and saving all life. I know could be a bit far fetched but just a thought I had.

The idea of Leland going back in time do is a good one and could certainly contribute to the start of the Borg.

Is this Discovery's first two part of season two? How many two part episodes to season one was there?

corkie

AMKC wrote: »

The idea of Leland going back in time do is a good one and could certainly contribute to the start of the Borg.

Is this Discovery's first two part of season two? How many two part episodes to season one was there?

There wasn't any two part episodes in Season 1 (unless you count the first Two Pilot episodes aboard Shenzhou). The rest of the season was 2 separate arcs across the season (Klingon War and Mirror Universe).

The Borg Origin theory is something I speculated on here, and other like-minded people have had similar ideas.


Hoping the episode lives up to all the HYPE, placed on it.

liamtech

Im really looking forward to it -

I suspect Mudd will be in it unfortunately - his short trek hasnt been referenced so he is due - probably the cliffhanger

As to Leiland/Borg etc - i cant see it happening

I agree with pixelburp that this season has been hit and miss - some amazing episodes but usually followed up with some terrible ones - Really hope the finale is the former

What i have noticed across the Web is that opinion is very divisive and polarizing - For example i hate the 'Disco-Haters' - people who just hate this show for the sake of it, or deny that it is 'Real Star Trek' - complaining constantly about 'canon issues', usually aesthetic ones which dont really matter IMHO

However it seems that genuine honest criticism tends to get regular fans labeled as 'Haters' - its very polarized - Last weeks in particular -

We just have to wait - here's hoping its an epic

corkie

No Mudd tiein as the actor confirmed he wasn't appearing this season!

TheValeyard

corkie wrote: »

No Mudd tiein as the actor confirmed he wasn't appearing this season!

I actually enjoyed his role. Also thought the many deaths of Captain Lorca was kinda funny.

AtomicHorror

liamtech wrote: »

Im really looking forward to it -

I suspect Mudd will be in it unfortunately - his short trek hasnt been referenced so he is due - probably the cliffhanger

As to Leiland/Borg etc - i cant see it happening

I agree with pixelburp that this season has been hit and miss - some amazing episodes but usually followed up with some terrible ones - Really hope the finale is the former

What i have noticed across the Web is that opinion is very divisive and polarizing - For example i hate the 'Disco-Haters' - people who just hate this show for the sake of it, or deny that it is 'Real Star Trek' - complaining constantly about 'canon issues', usually aesthetic ones which dont really matter IMHO

However it seems that genuine honest criticism tends to get regular fans labeled as 'Haters' - its very polarized - Last weeks in particular -

We just have to wait - here's hoping its an epic

Right there with you. We'd disagree on last week's episode, and I really enjoyed the season overall, but you made your points well.

The internet just tends to filter out moderate voices. Extreme views get more clicks, more reactions, more shares. Far from being representative of our collective voices, it's massively skewed towards the few, noisiest.

liamtech

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Right there with you. We'd disagree on last week's episode, and I really enjoyed the season overall, but you made your points well.

The internet just tends to filter out moderate voices. Extreme views get more clicks, more reactions, more shares. Far from being representative of our collective voices, it's massively skewed towards the few, noisiest.

I appreciate your words

What i find is the polarization is pretty intense surrounding the show, and 'haters' seem to latch on to everything they can - The Talosians didnt look Talosian - lol.. ridiculous nitpicking for probably the best episode of the show so far

But again, some of the episodes, (last weeks for me in particular), they dont do the show any favors and just give the 'haters' fuel to use attacking Discovery.

Which in turn polarizes Trekkie die hards into attacking the moderate fan who loves trek, but finds fault in episodes! It wasnt always this polarizing

I remember having an argument with a trekkie about Enterprise 'Silent Enemy' and whether the unnamed Aliens are related to the ones from TNGs 'Times Arrow' - and of course arguing about enterprise being not altogether what it should have been - but we never accused each other of being 'haters'! lol

Spear

If I didn't know there was already a season 3 being worked on, I'd swear I'd just seen a series finale, not a season finale, and one that seemed to fairly explicitly hand-off to a separate Pike based show. Even the end credit music seemed to reinforce this.

That giggle from Georgiou was wonderfully creepy

Doodah7

That was wrapped up neatly and tied off with a bow!! No need for a third season I would have thought?

Dave0301

After watching that, I would much prefer if season 3 focused on the Enterprise. Pike has a lot of offer, and Spock has been decent too.

Also, why did Discovery make the jump after Leland and Control had been neutralised?

Slight bug bear though...how fecking sturdy was that blast door Pike was standing behind!? The photon torpedo took out a fair auld chunk of the Enterprise, just not the bit ten feet in front of it.

liamtech

Just watched it - a Decent Episode - not the best of the Season - Overall Season was Weak in my mind

Signals/Red Angel - Yea it all added up in the end so, happy about that

I would like to know though - WHY did they start making the suit this week??? Would that not have been a better activity to undertake last week, you know, instead of all the goodbyes and discussions about love and JUST HOW AWESOME Burnham is?

Control/AI/Leland - Im disappointed by the lack of even a wink in the direction of the Borg - It seemed WAY WAY too close for comfort, and sadly i think i called it a while ago - The writers were in fact winding us up

Discovery's Faith - Interesting - didnt expect the Reboot that we got but all the same it will be interesting - As an Aside we know that Georgiouwill return for the S31 Show, which does suggest disco might return to the 23rd century, does it not?

Spock - Well there you go! lol

Pike - I would normally exclaim 'PROMOTE THAT MAN' but that could be bad news for him so lets not do that

OVERALL SEASON

Despite some amazing outings, i think it was overall a weak one for me - certainly weaker than season one - This weeks was decent, which for me only amplifies the question as to what happened with last weeks story - they could easily have had some of this weeks plot Placed in last weeks episode to bulk up on its incredibly weak plot

But that kinda sums up the season as a whole for me - 4-5 GREAT EPISODES (one in particular was epic) mixed in with moderate and sometimes dull stories

Im happy that it worked out - and i am MORE THAN curious of where things go from here - Disco in the 32nd Century? Disco Returns? will certainly be interesting to see what happens -

Given our knowledge that Pike is gone, i am annoyed we wont get a season with enterprise, pike, spock, and Number one -

TheValeyard

You know what, that was a good deal ending.

It also did wrap things up nicely with canon. I like clean shaven Spock in Uniform. We definitely need a Pike show!

3280 here we come!

Also, a lot of us here have been calling this future jump scenario all the way since season one.

coffee_cake

-go away, spinny camera
-"in English please" stahp
-"how long will that take" "4 mins" "can you cut that in half" "violate the basic laws of physics? Uhh no" - haha love that twist on the usual YOU HAVE X/2 TIME
-i love the little fixer robots!
I love anson mount. And hipster spock
That was awesome

Franz Von Peppercorn

So there could be a series set on the Enterprise pre Kirk. I am sure that CBS were aware that was an option if they always had this ending in mind. Discovery in the future at least escapes the Canon ( peace be upon it) so there will be fewer complaints in that direction. Its also in the alpha quadrant ( iirc) so it could be interesting. A post star fleet future?

Franz Von Peppercorn

liamtech wrote: »

Control/AI/Leland - Im disappointed by the lack of even a wink in the direction of the Borg - It seemed WAY WAY too close for comfort, and sadly i think i called it a while ago - The writers were in fact winding us up

Honestly never got that at all. Not once. One is a full artificial intelligence, the other is a hive mind of intelligent augmented carbon beings.

Rawr

Alas, I was quite underwhelmed by that. I was hoping for better, and in the end got very a confused and surprisingly boring space battle scene.

The whole thing with Micheal using the Red Angel does tie up the over arching plot....but it felt very thin. She went back in time to give them....good ideas? I know that all of this was necessary for the end resolution to work...but it did still feel very thin...I had felt that they would do something more *clever* with it.

The Time-travel sequences were very nicely rendered, and later on I did notice a possible reference to the ST:TMP worm hole scene, which was fun.

Some very odd things I didn't like. In one scene, there was a build up to the Leyland / Georgeo fight where Georgeo was having some banter with the Security Chief.

Georgeo: I'll get this door open, and then we'll get Leyland
Security: Yum-Yum!!

"Yum-yum?" Is that really the best you guys could write? That was just stupid, and just wrecked an otherwise OK character as well.

As for the canon-resolving wrap-up at Starfleet:



I was joking earlier in the season with this image...but dammit...this is exactly what they did!! Come on guys...a whole sci-fi universe to play with and you go for a Simpsons joke to wrap it all up?!!

I did like the Classic Spock reveal at the end, but all in all this felt like a massive anti-climax.

I don't think I will want to follow Discovery into the future. If it were the TNG future I might be interested...but I don't think I'll ever be in the mood to want to follow Micheal in her quest to find her mother in the distant future.

It was fun to have a Trek show to watch every week again...but alas until the Picard show comes up, I think that might be all for now.

liamtech

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Honestly never got that at all. Not once. One is a full artificial intelligence, the other is a hive mind of intelligent augmented carbon beings.

I think there was far too much 'Borg-Like' stuff for us not to conclude that it was linked to them

Dialogue - From 'Struggle is pointless' - to the ships being controlled by 'Drones' with no life signs

Technology - Leland was assimilated by Nano probes - as was the other guy, leading us down the road of an AI controlled decentralized Hive Mind

Artificial intelligence - i will watch Q - Who later but i immediately remember the line of dialogue when they discovered Borg Babies in maturation Chambers

'What Riker finds astounding is that the Borg have developed the technology to link artificial intelligence directly into the humanoid brain. ' from memory Alpha

Borg Origin - Guinan explained the origin of the Collective in terms of it being 'Made up of Biological and artificial life that has been evolving for centuries' -

It is really simple for me to see how people thought it was the Borg - and if Fans thought of it then so did the writers -

That said im not going to complain it wasnt a bad episode - i enjoyed it, if not the season as a whole

CastorTroy

Enjoyed that episode and tidies things up canon wise.

I was wondering why Burnham didn't just go to the destination with Spock instead of flying there herself. Would've got there quicker.

I thought the torpedo would lead to the cause of Pike's injuries

corkie

CastorTroy wrote: »

I thought the torpedo would lead to the cause of Pike's injuries

We know the cause of his injuries in the future, from TOS 'The Menagerie' and from the preview when he touched the Time Crystal.




Wasted opportunity to hint at a possible 'Borg' Origin story.

Killing Leland (cutting head of control off).

Looks like they are bowing to fan pressure to have Season 3 in the future.

Section 31 as known organization in this time-frame left unresolved.

Have another re-watch of this episode this afternoon.

CastorTroy

corkie wrote: »

We know the cause of his injuries in the future, from TOS 'The Menagerie' and from the preview when he touched the Time Crystal.

Yeah just wasn't sure of the location from the crystal, so before the admiral and Number 1 said they would go, I thought Pike would go and we would see it was the same place.

But I did wonder why they don't just make the rest of the ship out of whatever material the blast door is made of.

_Kaiser_

Well, that was pretty much as expected...

- confusing spinning cameras and CGI overload to mask the disjointed mess that was the big battle scene. All that was missing was a Optimus Prime voice over and it could have been a Michael Bay movie

- despite this, there's numerous time outs for relationship drama with Stamets and Culver, Mikey and Spock, Pike and the Admiral

- Tilly gets to be irritating in every scene she's in.. Check!

- Stupid fist fights with Leland.. Why - besides yet another Michelle does Kung Fu scene. Why did he not just assimilate her or whatever?

- 10/15 minutes later they're still working on the torpedo that was supposed to detonate long beforehand but it gives Admiral idiocy a chance for a heroic death and another deep moment with Pike - who just stands there as the torpedo explodes in his face

- and in the end, despite the misdirection with Burnham's mother, Mikey is indeed the Red Angel and the source of everything this season and saviour of the universe :rolleyes: We get an Interstellar style sequence and flashback montages. She's also Spock's saviour and heart too of course! Oh, and she sets up what will be the relationship between him, Kirk and McCoy - isn't she just the bestest! :rolleyes:

Then we finally get to the Canon clean ups that were promised and again its a cop out...

- Discovery, its crew, and Mikey Burnham all removed from the timeline

- Tyler becomes head of a revamped Section 31 that will bring it in line with what we know

But the most ridiculous part?? Well we just won't talk about Burnham, Discovery, spore drives, red angels or anything connected with the last 2 seasons of this show.. Grand so!

And with that this mess draws to a close... Or it would if they hadn't allegedly green lit a third season. Wtf will that be about? Even the end credits music suggests it's done.

I'm torn. The episode itself was mostly nonsense as expected but if its all actually over I can live with it.

Spear

Michelle Yeoh has publicly stated that Discovery season 3 will be filmed before the Section 31 show.

Which kinda undermines much of the main gimmick of the entire season 2 if we know they end up back where they started.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I’d prefer a Star Trek pre Kirk enterprise myself. We probably wouldn’t have welcomed that before (not with the lack of success of the previous Enterprise) but this is a great Pike.

_Kaiser_

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I’d prefer a Star Trek pre Kirk enterprise myself. We probably wouldn’t have welcomed that before (not with the lack of success of the previous Enterprise) but this is a great Pike.

Agree on that one - but given the mess they made of THIS prequel, I wouldn't trust them with it.

Pike and Lorca are about the only 2 characters that had any real interesting aspects in this show. Even Saru was relegated to an extra for the most part this season.

Johnny Storm

Spear wrote: »

If I didn't know there was already a season 3 being worked on, I'd swear I'd just seen a series finale, not a season finale, and one that seemed to fairly explicitly hand-off to a separate Pike based show....

^ +100 - I'm stoked for the new Pike/Spock show!

Meh episode at best, I'm sorry to have to say.
How could a huge space battle with excellent graphics actually be boring ? - quite an achievement in its own way .... :mad:
Did we really need to see each of the signals being created?
Fairly meh season overall too with a few good moments

Doodah7

Of course there is now nothing stopping the writers having Discovery return AFTER the TNG, DS9 etc. timeline and continue from there for a couple of seasons before being sent back to the future to tie in with the short story.

corkie

Temporal Prime Directive

Regulation 157, Section 3, Paragraph 18: Starfleet officers shall take all necessary precautions to minimize any participation in historical events.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Temporal_Prime_Directive
https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Temporal_Prime_Directive


Also the method used to to activate the time crystal from the prior suggested that only one trip was possible before it failed, yet Micheal was able to make multiple jumps to the past.

duffman13

I see people referencing season 3 will be in the future, was the nod at the end not to discovery being in the Beta quadrant and returning back in time? Maybe i missed something but I don't think I'll enjoy season 3 if its 900 years in the future.

A Pike Enterprise series would excite me. I enjoyed the season, I'll need to do a rewatch of the last episode but I felt a few bits where just convenient to ending the series. Like others have said, if that was end of the show then the would have been an excellent ending I think.