Rent Freeze - the mechanics of

LeineGlas · 20-03-2020 10:41am

piplip87 wrote: »

I get the feeling that this would work out ok if it wasn't for the piss takers.

I have seen and heard people who are now work from home demanding a rent freeze or a three month break even though Thier financial situation will be better off during this. The same thing happened during the recession people just have up paying mortgages because some people got into difficulty.

By announcing no evictions during this crisis they have just given the opportunity to those who will take the piss to do just that. The genuine ones who lost jobs and are now in trouble will be the ones to scrape something together for Thier landlords.

You're very out of touch if you think the crisis only started in the last few weeks.

Just because people haven't lost their jobs doesn't mean they are struggling to pay extortionate rents.

The rhetoric of landlords over the past few months shows why they have the reputation they have.

GreeBo · 20-03-2020 10:58am

dharma200 wrote: »

There will be a demand alright. There wont be airlines. What ones survive will be so knee deep in state debt you can be sure they wont be charging you 30 euro to bask in the costa.

And why wont there be new airlines if there is demand?

where do you think all the low cost airlines came from originally?

Roberto_gas · 20-03-2020 11:02am

I have been informed of a rent increase from next month...will this stop that increase ?

sbsquarepants · 20-03-2020 11:19am

dharma200 wrote: »

No,
Because air b n b will be pretty much finished, air travel will be extortionate, people all over europe too skint to spend a week in dublin or galway, no more big cultural events, mass unemployment and no more false rental economy.

Have a big long think.

People really are getting hysterical.

Here's what you need to be thinking, temporary things are temporary. Pandemics do not last forever, there have been a quite a few of them already, there has even been much worse ones than this. They end and life returns to normal. This will be no different.

Everything tends toward the average over time - extremes do not become the new norm.

Roberto_gas · 20-03-2020 11:43am

c0rk3r wrote: »

Guess i don't have to pay the increased rate of rent which commences Mid-April ? A minor win.

Ditto for me !

handlemaster · 20-03-2020 12:30pm

c0rk3r wrote: »

Guess i don't have to pay the increased rate of rent which commences Mid-April ? A minor win.

Why would you not ?

handlemaster · 20-03-2020 12:32pm

piplip87 wrote: »

I get the feeling that this would work out ok if it wasn't for the piss takers.

I have seen and heard people who are now work from home demanding a rent freeze or a three month break even though Thier financial situation will be better off during this. The same thing happened during the recession people just have up paying mortgages because some people got into difficulty.

By announcing no evictions during this crisis they have just given the opportunity to those who will take the piss to do just that. The genuine ones who lost jobs and are now in trouble will be the ones to scrape something together for Thier landlords.

And you can tag the social welfare work avoiding tenants onto that. No impact on their circumstances

c0rk3r · 20-03-2020 12:43pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Why would you not ?

Not being funny or anything but because its the law (or will be). Look, the landlord uses the same legislative mechanism to increase the rent every year. Now whens its the tenants opportunity to use a similar mechanism... they should. I imagine, during these difficult times ahead that the landlord is thankful that she has tenants that can actually pay because alot cant.

dharma200 · 20-03-2020 12:58pm

Nice opportunity for a few air b n b home blockers to help the less fortunate.

https://twitter.com/IrishRefugeeCo/status/1240968214995181568

handlemaster · 20-03-2020 1:25pm

c0rk3r wrote: »

Not being funny or anything but because its the law (or will be). Look, the landlord uses the same legislative mechanism to increase the rent every year. Now whens its the tenants opportunity to use a similar mechanism... they should. I imagine, during these difficult times ahead that the landlord is thankful that she has tenants that can actually pay because alot cant.

Does it say that ?

handlemaster · 20-03-2020 1:26pm

dharma200 wrote: »

Nice opportunity for a few air b n b home blockers to help the less fortunate.

https://twitter.com/IrishRefugeeCo/status/1240968214995181568

Home blockers ? What does that mean ?

20-03-2020 2:12pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Does it say that ?

My understanding is that no rent reviews/increases can be given to tenants once legislation passes. I haven’t read that it is retrospectively applies to notices already given, but I could be wrong.

Mind you, the LL would have to be a complete tosser to expect the rent increase to go ahead.

Roberto_gas · 20-03-2020 2:25pm

Dav010 wrote: »

My understanding is that no rent reviews/increases can be given to tenants once legislation passes. I haven’t read that it is retrospectively applies to notices already given, but I could be wrong.

Mind you, the LL would have to be a complete tosser to expect the rent increase to go ahead.

what changes for tenants then ? 4% increase for notice given yesterday

c0rk3r · 20-03-2020 3:29pm

We'll have to wait until the legislation is published completely next week. RTB cannot advise until it's published. It'll be a bit of a sickener paying an increase during a national pandemic with a recession around the corner. I was just getting comfortable from the last one :rolleyes:

Ray Palmer · 20-03-2020 4:24pm

c0rk3r wrote: »

We'll have to wait until the legislation is published completely next week. RTB cannot advise until it's published. It'll be a bit of a sickener paying an increase during a national pandemic with a recession around the corner. I was just getting comfortable from the last one :rolleyes:

It is there to help people who are directly affected. Are you directly effect in that your salary has stopped? If not you are trying to make a profit for yourself out of the emergency.

Yellow_Fern · 20-03-2020 5:05pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Soo, you'll get a break on the mortgage but won't pass it on?

I hope you never get another cent from your tenants, and lose your asset.

Such nastiness. Amazing how people bite the hands that feeds.

Tacitus Kilgore · 20-03-2020 5:26pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Such nastiness. Amazing how people bite the hands that feeds.

:pac: Did you not see what the post was in reply to?

"Bite the hand that feeds" - Jesus christ :eek:

Yellow_Fern · 20-03-2020 5:42pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

:pac: Did you not see what the post was in reply to?

"Bite the hand that feeds" - Jesus christ :eek:

I have been overcharged plenty of times. It is annoying but it would be pretty dark if I wished them to lose their job over it.

If this shutdown lasts months fair enough there will have to be plenty of leeway for tenants but it is pretty insane to have no back plan to get you through a month if you lose your job.

Roberto_gas · 20-03-2020 5:46pm

It depends on how good a tenant has been - increase rent....tenant says no thanks....best of luck finding a new stable tenant for a hike of 4% ! Its a double edged sword in this market !

Tacitus Kilgore · 20-03-2020 5:58pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I have been overcharged plenty of times. It is annoying but it would be pretty dark if I wished them to lose their job over it.

If this shutdown lasts months fair enough there will have to be plenty of leeway for tenants but it is pretty insane to have no back plan to get you through a month if you lose your job.

WTH are you on about?

Bite the hand that feeds is a fairly weird comment, are you implying that a tenant is somewhat indebted to the kindness of a landlord for renting to them, for money?

shivermetimber · 20-03-2020 6:04pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Nice idea.
I'm sure you are also contacting your employer to tell them to cut your wages back to 2014 levels also?

There'd be no need as I haven't had a raise since then! Not messing either..

Dr_Kolossus · 20-03-2020 6:34pm

Bit of a shower thought, if rents drop now, let's say by 50 % are landlords allowed to reduce rents for a sitting Tennant by same amount, or is it the same 4% for increases to be applied to decreases?

Varik · 20-03-2020 6:45pm

Dr_Kolossus wrote: »

Bit of a shower thought, if rents drop now, let's say by 50 % are landlords allowed to reduce rents for a sitting Tennant by same amount, or is it the same 4% for increases to be applied to decreases?

There's no limits on rent decreases, but any decreased will be locked in going forwards. if you dropped by 50% it'd take 25 years of 4% yearly increases to get back up.

Yellow_Fern · 20-03-2020 7:22pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

WTH are you on about?

Bite the hand that feeds is a fairly weird comment, are you implying that a tenant is somewhat indebted to the kindness of a landlord for renting to them, for money?

Private landlords house people and that is a social good. Just like an other service. if a landlord overcharges someone it still doesnt negate that they provide a social good. No one says a rip off doctor should be struck off. No one says rip off builders should be barred from the sector.

Claw Hammer · 20-03-2020 7:27pm

Varik wrote: »

There's no limits on rent decreases, but any decreased will be locked in going forwards. if you dropped by 50% it'd take 25 years of 4% yearly increases to get back up.

The rent cap will probably be allowed lapse next year. There wil no longer be any need for it.

JustAThought · 20-03-2020 7:38pm

I suspect there will he an increase in landlords selling the defaulting tenants debt to a debt collection company where they will hounf and harass them wherever they are or go. Plenty of private debt collection companies prepared to lift a car or other assets to obtain closure on a debt.

As regards the hoards of self entitled demanding to live for free or use services for free - have you jot consodered a credit inion loan to cover your debts and obligations or asking your parents for financial help - or allowing the leade to lapse and moving out and back in with your family. Your service provider does not owe you anything - you oay for yhe service or you cannot afford it and move out. Stealing services and self entitled demands on strangers seems to be the theme here - it is all 18-20 years olds with no morals who have sprung from spce with no families or people who want them that are prepared to help them? They are quick enough to demand it from strangers.

Tacitus Kilgore · 20-03-2020 7:39pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Private landlords house people and that is a social good. Just like an other service. if a landlord overcharges someone it still doesnt negate that they provide a social good. No one says a rip off doctor should be struck off. No one says rip off builders should be barred from the sector.

I never said he should be barred, but I did wish bad luck on him if he gets a mortgage break but profits off it instead of passing it on to the tenants.

Nah, and as others will inform you on thread, landlords are selling a product.

You referred to it as the hand of the landlord feeding the tenant. Horsecrap.

20-03-2020 7:39pm

Roberto_gas wrote: »

It depends on how good a tenant has been - increase rent....tenant says no thanks....best of luck finding a new stable tenant for a hike of 4% ! Its a double edged sword in this market !

Only one way to find out, off you go.

20-03-2020 7:42pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

I never said he should be barred, but I did wish bad luck on him if he gets a mortgage break but profits off it instead of passing it on to the tenants.

Nah, and as others will inform you on thread, landlords are selling a product.

You referred to it as the hand of the landlord feeding the tenant. Horsecrap.

A mortgage break isn’t a profit, the LL still has to pay the mortgage in full.

Tacitus Kilgore · 20-03-2020 7:43pm

Dav010 wrote: »

A mortgage break isn’t a profit, the LL still has to pay the mortgage in full.

Does he have to pay it right now?

20-03-2020 7:56pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Does he have to pay it right now?

Doesn’t matter, it is still not a profit. If you get a 3 month moratorium on a car loan, it doesn’t get written off, you still have to pay.

Yellow_Fern · 20-03-2020 7:58pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

I never said he should be barred, but I did wish bad luck on him if he gets a mortgage break but profits off it instead of passing it on to the tenants.

Nah, and as others will inform you on thread, landlords are selling a product.

You referred to it as the hand of the landlord feeding the tenant. Horsecrap.

I was referring to Irish people biting the hand that feeds. Not tenants. I have no idea if you are a tenant. Irish people would be poorer if there was no private rental.

Tacitus Kilgore · 20-03-2020 8:05pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Doesn’t matter, it is still not a profit. If you get a 3 month moratorium on a car loan, it doesn’t get written off, you still have to pay.

Its a cash flow fix, well it's supposed to be anyway. if the landlord doesnt have to pay right now the tenant doesn't have to either. That's the whole idea. It's not something youll find in a contract because its a pretty exceptional circumstance.

20-03-2020 8:17pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Its a cash flow fix, well it's supposed to be anyway. if the landlord doesnt have to pay right now the tenant doesn't have to either. That's the whole idea. It's not something youll find in a contract because its a pretty exceptional circumstance.

That is still not a profit though.

Pkiernan · 20-03-2020 8:23pm

Easy way to implement rent freeze is for the landlord not to have to pay tax on the rent when it resumes until such time as the landlord is back to parity.

Everyone's a winner, no ones a loser.

20-03-2020 8:27pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

Easy way to implement rent freeze is for the landlord not to have to pay tax on the rent when it resumes until such time as the landlord is back to parity.

Everyone's a winner, no ones a loser.

And also, as interest rates at an all time low, ensure the stalled repayments do not accumulate interest over the rest of the term at a higher rate.

WhiteMemento9 · 20-03-2020 8:37pm

If someone wants to end a tenancy do they still have to give some kind of notcie to get the despoit back from the landlord or do the new rules cover this kind of situation. So for example, if renting at the moment but want to end tenancy ASAP, move out and get deposit back?

JustAThought · 20-03-2020 8:55pm

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

If someone wants to end a tenancy do they still have to give some kind of notcie to get the despoit back from the landlord or do the new rules cover this kind of situation. So for example, if renting at the moment but want to end tenancy ASAP, move out and get deposit back?

If you have been a reliable and good tenant and you have fallen victim to the Carona disaster it would be reasonable to hope that your landlord would be reasonable with your request. That said, they are in a debt chain and in many instances can’t just magic up ‘your’ rent to pay to the bank as well as wherever they are living and paying for themselves. Best thing to do is talk to them - if you have lost your job we all know there is the e800-1000 a month incoming from the social welfare and the expectation would be that you would claim that and at least put good the last months rent due with that. Otherwise they would be right to assume you’re just shirking your responsibilities and playing a-la -carte on your debts, which probably wouldn’t fly. I would imagine thAt with a month paid notice and all bills/debts paid and the deposit to offset damages it would be reasonable for them to be reasonable. Assuming you approached it right and hadn’t been a problem up to now. Most people like to be nice, given the choice and a reasonable proposition.

handlemaster · 20-03-2020 9:28pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Does he have to pay it right now?

Tell that to the shop keeper when you dont want to pay for your food.

handlemaster · 20-03-2020 9:30pm

c0rk3r wrote: »

Guess i don't have to pay the increased rate of rent which commences Mid-April ? A minor win.

Speaking to reporters at Government Buildings yesterday, Donohoe said he would be speaking to Housing Minister Eoghan Murphy about enforcement measures, adding that from all of the discussions in relation to a rent freeze and rent pressure zones the government believes there are “legal constraints in place in relation to the ability of any government to intervene in the contract between landlords and tenants”.

handlemaster · 20-03-2020 9:34pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Speaking to reporters at Government Buildings yesterday, Donohoe said he would be speaking to Housing Minister Eoghan Murphy about enforcement measures, adding that from all of the discussions in relation to a rent freeze and rent pressure zones the government believes there are “legal constraints in place in relation to the ability of any government to intervene in the contract between landlords and tenants”.

And the government have screwed the landlords for years . Now it appears they cannot bring in a rent freeze and apply the morality stick. If they think people should pay less why dont the government pay the difference. Why is it always the landlord that has to prop up tenants it's a business which the government are very happy to tax handsomely. The government are solely responsible for social provision but they have neglected that for years

Touchee · 20-03-2020 9:37pm

JustAThought wrote: »

I suspect there will he an increase in landlords selling the defaulting tenants debt to a debt collection company where they will hounf and harass them wherever they are or go. Plenty of private debt collection companies prepared to lift a car or other assets to obtain closure on a debt.

As regards the hoards of self entitled demanding to live for free or use services for free - have you jot consodered a credit inion loan to cover your debts and obligations or asking your parents for financial help - or allowing the leade to lapse and moving out and back in with your family. Your service provider does not owe you anything - you oay for yhe service or you cannot afford it and move out. Stealing services and self entitled demands on strangers seems to be the theme here - it is all 18-20 years olds with no morals who have sprung from spce with no families or people who want them that are prepared to help them? They are quick enough to demand it from strangers.

No, haven’t considered any of that. Family live 200km away, can’t really leave our almost endangered jobs.

We really are in a precarious situation. If both of us are let go, the paltry support offered by the government would cover 70% of the rent and we would have no money for food or bills. Most companies have a rent freeze going on so it would be tough to get another job.

As of yet, we haven’t lost our jobs, but I’m defo taking a pay cut next week. Won’t be defaulting on the rent payment, but you never know could happen next month.

If the Government introduced measures similar to UK in terms of employee and business support then there would be no need to think of pausing rent payments. But as it stands, all the government has offered is the normal social welfare payment which is sweet f..k all

jrosen · 20-03-2020 11:27pm

jrosen wrote: »

I was only thinking the same. Im a landlord and the property has a mortgage on it. So I wont be allowing any rent break.The mortgage still has to be paid. Even if I got a break on the mortgage, it will be tagged onto the end for me and ultimately I will take the hit.

I dont see how there could be a break for renters.

For all those who misunderstood. I never once said I wouldnt pass on a break if I got one. Although I can see it reads that way. What I pointed out was that ultimately Ill take the hit, the mortgage payments and interest dont disappear.

I accept its the risk we have chosen to take for the long term gain (hopefully). What I take issue with is the government making decisions over a property that I own (well the bank), that we maintain and are taxed through the arse for.

We have a contingency for events like this. But now if my tenants stop paying, regardless of ability to pay we now are locked into not being able to do anything about it. Granted its for 3 months but as someone who likes to plan ahead and plan for the unknown it concerns me that this 3 month break might become longer.

It is not my responsibility to house people for free. My tenants are great, but we have had numerous times where their rent has been late, significantly late. We have been fair, given flexibility. We have never taken a hard line with them. They are paying well below current market value for the area. We could have not renewed their lease at any stage and put the house back on the market for more money but we haven't. We feel what they are paying is a fair rent.

c0rk3r · 21-03-2020 12:15am

Just checked daft there. There's 2 bed apartments now available for what I pay for a 1 bed...

LeineGlas · 21-03-2020 12:29am

Pkiernan wrote: »

Easy way to implement rent freeze is for the landlord not to have to pay tax on the rent when it resumes until such time as the landlord is back to parity.

Everyone's a winner, no ones a loser.

Landlords always looking to weasel out of contributing to society.

21-03-2020 12:57am

Varik wrote: »

There's no limits on rent decreases, but any decreased will be locked in going forwards. if you dropped by 50% it'd take 25 years of 4% yearly increases to get back up.

We may be in an interesting scenario where half of Dublin wants to move house simply to significantly reduce their rent

Varik · 21-03-2020 1:36am

Deleted User wrote: »

We may be in an interesting scenario where half of Dublin wants to move house simply to significantly reduce their rent

Current situation where existing tenants are trying to stay in their places, but if they've to move to any of the new rental then those are at the higher market rate.

To where as you say they're trying to move.

Problem is that supply is still needed but if prices fall then so does the drive for new supply, and added to this many LL got locked into a below market rate as we came out of recession so are they going to be wary of that. Even if the RPZ is repealed, another one could be quickly done again.

21-03-2020 7:42am

Seems Dharma is partly right, owners of short let properties are putting them onto the rental market, not enough to effect the market in a big way, but it is early days.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEIVAX8y7J_5wrueXoDT2pOYqGAgEKg8IACoHCAowyNLTATDN-jUwjbOhAQ?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE%3Aen

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiZGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnJ0ZS5pZS9uZXdzL2J1c2luZXNzLzIwMjAvMDMyMC8xMTI0NDQyLWJpZy1yaXNlLWluLWR1Ymxpbi1jaXR5LXJlbnRhbHMtaW4tbWFyY2gtZGFmdC1pZS_SAR9odHRwczovL3d3dy5ydGUuaWUvYW1wLzExMjQ0NDIv?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE:en

Irish_peppa · 21-03-2020 7:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

We may be in an interesting scenario where half of Dublin wants to move house simply to significantly reduce their rent

I would reckon any landlord who is currently charging current high market rents that recieves communication from any of their GOOD tenants that they are moving to a better value place would immediately drop or start to haggle a better price. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush dont ya know:cool:

handlemaster · 21-03-2020 9:03am

LeineGlas wrote: »

Landlords always looking to weasel out of contributing to society.

How have they not paid their fair share. You do know most of the rent goes back to the government and the lending bank.

Rent Freeze - the mechanics of

Comments