Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

1…130131133135136…198

Comments

  • #6602
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Good man Raind....

    So the death rate isn't even considered in the definition of a pandemic...what about seriousness of illnesses or infection?

    How do they discern between a mild pandemic and a severe one? Do they bother...we just lock down for any pandemic is it?

    A pandemic is a pandemic. Whether it’s haemorrhaging fever with ifr of 99% or a mild rash. The reaction is based on the potential impact to life and health not because it’s declared a pandemic.


  • #6603
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    darconio wrote: »
    That's relatively old, it's a study published in July 2020, but regardless, do we want to keep ignoring the following sentence or do we want to acknowledge the fact that the number of reported deaths by covid is not real?

    "As of mid April, in line with World Health Organization (WHO) guidance, death reporting was extended to include deaths both in patients with probable COVID-19 in addition to deaths among confirmed cases.
    By definition, such deaths must result from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID-19 (for example, trauma).    "


    The above are WHO guidelines used by HIQA for its study of RIP death notices are out of date by about a year.

    See the ECDC covid guidelines linked to on the HPSC website I detailed and explanation.

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/epidemiologyfrequentlyaskedquestions/

    The definitions used are explained here and include Confirmed case, Probable case, Possible case etc

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casedefinitions/covid-19interimcasedefinitionforireland/


    Under the ECDC guidelines- It remains what is detailed are laboratory confirmed (tested positive) deaths and non laboratory confirmed deaths as alternatively determined by doctors etc and relevant criteria for each category.


  • #6604
    arccosh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭arccosh


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/066ce-ireland-placed-on-full-level-5-restrictions-of-the-plan-for-living-with-covid-19/

    loads for you to do according to that


  • #6605
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This is what happens when you “see a guy talking” rather than listen to reality. The number of deaths does not and never has defined a pandemic
    Deleted User wrote: »
    A pandemic is a pandemic. Whether it’s haemorrhaging fever with ifr of 99% or a mild rash. The reaction is based on the potential impact to life and health not because it’s declared a pandemic.

    You're the gift that keeps on giving...never change Raind....never change!


  • #6606
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    There are so many people here who post in bad faith.


  • Advertisement
  • #6607
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    You're the gift that keeps on giving...never change Raind....never change!

    Reading comprehension as always is a challenge I see


  • #6608
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Faugheen wrote: »
    There are so many people here who don't post the way I want them to.

    Fixed that there for you!!


  • #6609
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Reading comprehension as always is a challenge I see

    No I got you...

    A Pandemic is not concerned with death rates, it's the rate of impact on life...death would be a fairly significant impact on life one would have thought!!!


  • #6610
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    No I got you...

    A Pandemic is not concerned with death rates, it's the rate of impact on life...death would be a fairly significant impact on life one would have thought!!!

    I shall try a be a bit slower

    A declaration of a pandemic is based on the spread of an infectious agent and not on its severity

    The reaction to an infectious agent is based on its severity and not on the fact that it’s been declared a pandemic. An Ebola outbreak in west Africa for example requires extreme reactions but it’s not a pandemic

    Two separate things. Do you need smaller words?


  • #6611
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I shall try a be a bit slower

    A declaration pandemic is based on the spread of an infectious agent and not on its severity

    The reaction to an infectious agent is based on its severity and not on the fact that it’s been declared a pandemic. An Ebola outbreak in west Africa for example requires extreme reactions but it’s not a pandemic

    Two separate things. Do you need smaller words?

    Jesus Raind...you're not the quickest as it is....

    I understand the point you are making...I also understand my own ignorance of the term....I was merely pointing out that it had been alleged the WHO changed the definition of the term.

    I understand there are a few elements as in the geographical spread, the death rate would be one you'd imagine would indicate the severity of it, would we have locked down our country if we know this pandemic had a death rate of about 0.3 - 0.5%....I am not sure the vast public would have signed up to that!


  • Advertisement
  • #6612
    shtpEdthePlum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    No I got you...

    A Pandemic is not concerned with death rates, it's the rate of impact on life...death would be a fairly significant impact on life one would have thought!!!
    The definition of pandemic is actually based on the ability of a disease to spread throughout the world.


  • #6613
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    shtpEdthePlum wrote: »
    The definition of pandemic is actually based on the ability of a disease to spread throughout the world.

    From wikipedia
    "A pandemic (from Greek πᾶν, pan, "all" and δῆμος, demos, "local people" the 'crowd')
    is an epidemic of an infectious disease that has spread across a large region,
    for instance multiple continents or worldwide,
    affecting a substantial number of people.     "


  • #6614
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    shtpEdthePlum wrote: »
    The definition of pandemic is actually based on the ability of a disease to spread throughout the world.

    So I'm told...I do know the British have been planning for a Pandemic with a much higher death rate than Covid for over 10 years...so their experts clearly didn't get the memo!


  • #6615
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    normanoffside wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1384185685226057743

    You can watch it yourself here from 33-36 minutes

    'We've been very clear since day 1 that we've reported all deaths because of or with Covid 19"

    Later When asked about people with terminal illness and a short potential life span who just happened to die with covid he says they do make up a proportion of our (covid) deaths.

    :D:D:D hahaha hahaha.

    That is not even within in an asses roar of what you claimed. :pac:

    Viz.
    normanoffside wrote: »
    Hi Gozunda, Dr Glynn was just asked about this and has confirmed that he reports all deaths with Covid19 whether or not it is the cause of or even a factor in the death.

    So he says they report all covid related deaths - - that does not mean that they assign covid as a cause of death to anything and everything as you have suggested above

    Oh and of the covid deaths reported - a proportion have underlying conditions. Well there's a surprise. I didn't know that...


  • #6616
    shtpEdthePlum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    PintOfView wrote: »
    From wikipedia
    "A pandemic (from Greek πᾶν, pan, "all" and δῆμος, demos, "local people" the 'crowd')
    is an epidemic of an infectious disease that has spread across a large region,
    for instance multiple continents or worldwide,
    affecting a substantial number of people.     "
    That's what i said.


  • #6617
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Jesus Raind...you're not the quickest as it is....

    I understand the point you are making...I also understand my own ignorance of the term....I was merely pointing out that it had been alleged the WHO changed the definition of the term.

    I understand there are a few elements as in the geographical spread, the death rate would be one you'd imagine would indicate the severity of it, would we have locked down our country if we know this pandemic had a death rate of about 0.3 - 0.5%....I am not sure the vast public would have signed up to that!


    We know that presently the CFR is 2.14% not 0,3 -0.5% and that is for all age groups. Stands to reason that the percentage for the elderly and those with underlying condition will be higher again.


  • #6618
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    ypres5 wrote: »
    You do realize you're talking to the guy who framed northern ireland to be some dystopian hellhole where one couldn't step outside without being mauled by a gang of roaming loyalists just last week?

    Ah even more stuff never said by anyone. This is a very good game guys. Keep it lit :pac:

    Meanwhile Dublin is Mad Max Territory. Oh the irony ...


  • #6619
    Seweryn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Seweryn


    charlie14 wrote: »
    From that I take it you have an explanation for all the high E.U. excess monthly deaths that coincide with the various Covid waves.
    If those excess deaths are not due to Covid, then what are they due too ?
    The explanation is simple, but there are no official figures supporting the fact.

    Right at the start, it was obvious that the lockdowns and closures of hospital departments would kill far more people than the over-promoted virus. And that is exactly what has happened.

    Hospital departments were shut and hospital staff with not enough to do performed funny dances which were put onto the internet to entertain the patients who were being denied medical treatment. Politicians claimed that hospitals were under huge pressure, but the figures showed that wards and intensive care units were emptier than usual.

    So called cure (the lockdown policies and the refusal to treat other patients to "protect" them from infection) kills far more people than the disease. But no, you will not find it in official figures. Because who is going to admit and explain this? Corrupted politicians or lying doctors?


  • #6620
    ypres5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    gozunda wrote: »
    Ah even more stuff never said by anyone. This is a very good game guys. Keep it lit :pac:

    So all the posts about irish people and southern reg cars being attacked were a group hallucination on the part of the people here? Considering I'm not the first person to reference them.


  • #6621
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    charlie14 wrote: »
    We know that presently the CFR is 2.14% not 0,3 -0.5% and that is for all age groups. Stands to reason that the percentage for the elderly and those with underlying condition will be higher again.

    The CFR should only be used if we have an accurate number on the number of people who have been infected...we have no idea, we have a number of confirmed cases...that includes a large amount of people who have not shown a single symptom.

    The figures we do have do not present us with what could be described as a deadly virus....thankfully.

    I do note that it can be a very serious infection for many, who don't need hospital treatment...I do believe in the need for some restrictions.


  • Advertisement
  • #6622
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 13,151 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    charlie14 wrote: »
    We know that presently the CFR is 2.14% not 0,3 -0.5% and that is for all age groups. Stands to reason that the percentage for the elderly and those with underlying condition will be higher again.

    Higher again?
    How do you work that out?
    92% of all deaths to date have been 65+.
    How could the percentage be higher when they already make up a huge proportion of mortalities?
    Does. Not. Compute.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #6623
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,139 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    gozunda wrote: »
    :
    So he says they report all covid related deaths - - that does not mean that they assign covid as a cause of death to anything and everything as you have suggested above

    I knew you would nit-pick which is why in my follow up post I listened to his exact words and reported them as he said them
    DrGlynn wrote:
    'We've been very clear since day 1 that we've reported all deaths because of or with Covid 19"

    In other words everyone who dies with covid is listed as a covid death.
    It doesn't matter if it was the cause of death or not.

    What else do you understand by 'we've reported all deaths with covid 19'?


  • #6624
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    ypres5 wrote: »
    So all the posts about irish people and southern reg cars being attacked were a group hallucination on the part of the people here? Considering I'm not the first person to reference them.

    Well no - maybe just yours? And what relevance has the previous comments about reported rioting in NI etc got to do with anything which was being discussed tonight?

    So you are "the people"??? Erm no I dont believe you are

    Here's the comment you are referring to.. I believe there was another one or two on the same subject. Yeah I get the pot stirring. It doesn't wash my friend.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116909034&postcount=6051

    And btw the trouble there is not limited to any one side as you may bizarrely believe ...

    But I guess as you've never lived there or seem to have a general clue on that subject. But the North is far from some "dystopian hellhole" as you bizarrely refer to it. But yes it does have some issues. But its not Mad Max eitherway.

    But anyway you dug that up to apparently start some agro. Which you seem to like. Not going there my friend.

    I'll leave you at it.


  • #6625
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Seweryn wrote: »
    The explanation is simple, but there are no official figures supporting the fact.

    Right at the start, it was obvious that the lockdowns and closures of hospital departments would kill far more people than the over-promoted virus. And that is exactly what has happened.

    Hospital departments were shut and hospital staff with not enough to do performed funny dances which were put onto the internet to entertain the patients who were being denied medical treatment. Politicians claimed that hospitals were under huge pressure, but the figures showed that wards and intensive care units were emptier than usual.

    So called cure (the lockdown policies and the refusal to treat other patients to "protect" them from infection) kills far more people than the disease. But no, you will not find it in official figures. Because who is going to admit and explain this? Corrupted politicians or lying doctors?


    And just by sheer coincidence all those people show up in the 26 E.U. countries we have official statistics for as excessive deaths during the same time as the various Covid-19 waves.


    I`m afraid to believe that would be stretching credulity into the realm of fantasy.


  • #6626
    User1998
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,010 ✭✭✭User1998


    charlie14 wrote: »
    I don`t know about you, but 141Million infected and 3.01Million dead in a year looks like a pandemic to me.

    There are 55 million+ deaths every year tho


  • #6627
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    normanoffside wrote: »
    I knew you would nit-pick which is why in my follow up post I listened to his exact words and reported them as he said them. In other words everyone who dies with covid is listed as a covid death.
    It doesn't matter if it was the cause of death or not. What else do you understand by 'we've reported all deaths with covid 19'?

    Again thats not what you said
    normanoffside wrote: »
    Hi Gozunda, Dr Glynn was just asked about this and has confirmed that he reports all deaths with Covid19 whether or not it is the cause of or even a factor in the death .

    I believe you're deliberately twisting his words.

    To see how covid deaths are listed / determined see the following

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/epidemiologyfrequentlyaskedquestions/

    Definitions here

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casedefinitions/covid-19interimcasedefinitionforireland/

    This fully explains how covid deaths differentiate between laboratory confirmed (tested positive) deaths and non laboratory confirmed deaths as alternatively determined by doctor only etc

    Stipulations include that death due to Covid cannot be assigned where where there is a clear alternative cause of death (e.g. trauma).


  • #6628
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    JRant wrote: »
    Higher again?
    How do you work that out?
    92% of all deaths to date have been 65+.
    How could the percentage be higher when they already make up a huge proportion of mortalities?
    Does. Not. Compute.


    If the CFR for all age groups is 2.14% if the 65+ deaths make up 92% rather than 100% then the percentage has to be higher.

    Admittedly not by much, but it is still many times more than the 0.3% -0.5% that was claimed.


  • #6629
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    User1998 wrote: »
    There are 55 million+ deaths every year tho


    I really do not understand what point you are making. Other than perhaps that we should just have ignored a transmittable virus that in a year has caused over 3 Million+ deaths on the basis that if you die you die.


    If it is then maybe we should abondon all medical interventions regardless.


  • #6630
    francogarbanzo
    Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭francogarbanzo


    charlie14 wrote: »
    I really do not understand what point you are making. Other than perhaps that we should just have ignored a transmittable virus that in a year has caused over 3 Million+ deaths on the basis that if you die you die.


    If it is then maybe we should abondon all medical interventions regardless.

    The only two options are ignoring the virus or closing the entire country for a year.


  • Advertisement
  • #6631
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,139 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    gozunda wrote: »
    Again thats not what you said



    I believe you're deliberately twisting his words.

    To see how covid deaths are listed / reported see the following

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/epidemiologyfrequentlyaskedquestions/

    Definitions here

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casedefinitions/covid-19interimcasedefinitionforireland/

    This fully explains how covid deaths differentiate between laboratory confirmed (tested positive) deaths and non laboratory confirmed deaths as alternatively determined by doctor only etc

    Stipulations include that death due to Covid cannot be assigned where where there is a clear alternative cause of death (e.g. trauma).

    And that death due to COVID-19 may not be attributed to a death from a non clinically compatible disease (e.g. cancer)

    I initially reported it as I heard it and in the context of the conversation I believe that is what he was saying.

    Then I went back and quoted his exact words which were that NPHET counted all deaths with covid. I.E. if you had covid at the time of death you were counted in the numbers.

    I believe that is saying the same thing anyway.

    Are you a professional arguer?

    You remind me of John Cleese in that Monty python scene


  • #6632
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,037 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    ypres5 wrote: »
    So all the posts about irish people and southern reg cars being attacked were a group hallucination on the part of the people here? Considering I'm not the first person to reference them.

    Stop replying honestly, it's not good for your health. It's endless bull****.


  • #6633
    darconio
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭darconio


    charlie14 wrote: »
    What is so difficult for you to understand in relation to a country`s official statistics ?
    What you are attempting to demonstrate is using a document that is not official state statistics.

    The official state statistical authority for Ireland is the Central Statistics Office.
    Every country in the E.U. has one. Recognised by it`s own government and Eurostat as such. Until the CSO publish the complete records, anything else is supposition.

    You have been making much of WHO "directives" and "guidelines" inflating Covid deaths. What the WHO have to say is not going to make a blind bit of difference as to what the figure is. Excess deaths when they are officially known for Ireland will do that. Same as they already do for the rest of the E.U., showing that excess deaths coincide with the various Covid waves.

    If by chance your document is correct, (and on HIQA`s past record I would not bet too much on that if I was you), then it will just show how much more successful we have been in minimising Covid deaths compared to not just in the E.U. but in the world.
    If you have so much faith in this document then can I take it you acknowledge that ?

    I see you don't want to simply acknowledge the evidence: if the numbers that make your statistics are incorrect, the resulting statistics won't be correct.
    That's it I'm out, I won't explain this anymore.
    If official reports are considered correct/incorrect only when they support your agenda then I'm afraid it doesn't make any sense to even have a conversation.


  • #6634
    User1998
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,010 ✭✭✭User1998


    charlie14 wrote: »
    I really do not understand what point you are making. Other than perhaps that we should just have ignored a transmittable virus that in a year has caused over 3 Million+ deaths on the basis that if you die you die.


    If it is then maybe we should abondon all medical interventions regardless.

    People die all the time that’s just apart of life. I don’t see the big deal about having say 10% more worldwide deaths for 1 year. Its 1 year out of thousands and thousands of years that people have been on this earth. Think of the bigger picture


  • #6635
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    darconio wrote: »
    I see you don't want to simply acknowledge the evidence: if the numbers that make your statistics are incorrect, the resulting statistics won't be correct.
    That's it I'm out, I won't explain this anymore.
    If official reports are considered correct/incorrect only when they support your agenda then I'm afraid it doesn't make any sense to even have a conversation.


    You really do appear to be very confused as to statistics that are regarded and acknowledged as a country`s official statistic and those that are not. Even if I have done my best to explain that to you.


    Official statistic have nothing to do with supporting an agenda or not. They simply are what they are, and the official statistics of the other 26 E.U. countries are at variance with what you are claiming.


    Who knows, perhaps your figures when the official statistics are known are correct. But you do not appear to even believe that yourself, as you keep avoiding answering the question that if they are then would that not show how extraordinarily effective Ireland has been in keeping Covid deaths so low.


  • #6636
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    So in Oregon they want to introduce an indefinte mask law ..... basically mask wearing forever ....

    In Canada they want the police to get new powers to keep people locked up in their homes, and asking people to snitch on their neighbours ..

    Canada is becoming a Fascist state.

    Evil evil people, also this at a time when vaccines are being ramped out ..


    https://youtu.be/jdMOAKpXiNc


  • Advertisement
  • #6637
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    normanoffside wrote: »
    I initially reported it as I heard it and in the context of the conversation I believe that is what he was saying. Then I went back and quoted his exact words which were that NPHET counted all deaths with covid. I.E. if you had covid at the time of death you were counted in the numbers.
    I believe that is saying the same thing anyway.
    Are you a professional arguer?You remind me of John Cleese in that Monty python scene

    Again that's your personal interpretation and spinning the word 'with'

    The died "with / of" covid has been dragged over the coals more time than I've had hot dinners already. It doesn't wash.

    For clarification see - the HSPC "Can you describe what death in confirmed/probable/possible case of COVID-19 means?"

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/epidemiologyfrequentlyaskedquestions/

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casedefinitions/covid-19interimcasedefinitionforireland/

    The above include stipulations that death due to Covid cannot be assigned where where there is a clear alternative cause of death (e.g. trauma).

    This is a discussion. So maybe drop the daft personalisation stuff. I could make similar asides - but you know what - I couldn't be arsed.

    Here are cases of people who have died with (of) covid and which were reported in the media and not by reason of being counted in the numbers...

    https://www.thejournal.ie/kilkenny-nurse-dies-covid-19-solson-saviour-5328571-Jan2021/

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53501389


  • #6638
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Seweryn wrote: »
    Right at the start, it was obvious that the lockdowns and closures of hospital departments would kill far more people than the over-promoted virus.
    And that is exactly what has happened.
    What made that obvious?
    And what makes you think that the lockdowns did, in fact, kill far more people than covid?
    And what you do think would have happened if we didn't lockdown?

    Have you looked at the excess death rates in other countries (US, UK, etc)?
    Do you think they had a different virus to us?

    It's easy to claim anything, but a bit more difficult to back it up with reason and logic!


  • #6639
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,139 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    gozunda wrote: »
    Again that's your personal interpretation and spinning the word 'with'

    The died old with / of covid has been dragged over the coals more time than I've had hot dinners already. It doesn't wash.

    For clarification see - the HSPC "Can you describe what death in confirmed/probable/possible case of COVID-19 means?"

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/epidemiologyfrequentlyaskedquestions/

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casedefinitions/covid-19interimcasedefinitionforireland/

    The above include stipulations that death due to Covid cannot be assigned where where there is a clear alternative cause of death (e.g. trauma).

    This is a discussion. So maybe drop the daft personalisation stuff. I could make similar asides - but you know what - I couldn't be arsed.

    Here are cases of people who have died with (of) covid and which were reported in the media

    https://www.thejournal.ie/kilkenny-nurse-dies-covid-19-solson-saviour-5328571-Jan2021/

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53501389


    You refuse to understand plain English as spoken by Glynn and Varadkar in the context the statements were made.

    There is really is really no point arguing with you.

    Please don't reply with your essays to me any more as I won't be responding so you're wasting your time.


  • #6640
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    User1998 wrote: »
    People die all the time that’s just apart of life. I don’t see the big deal about having say 10% more worldwide deaths for 1 year. Its 1 year out of thousands and thousands of years that people have been on this earth. Think of the bigger picture


    That really has to be up there with the craziest replies I have ever recieved.



    The world population increased by 1.08% last year. Down from 1.08% for 2019, 1.1% for 2018 and 1.12% for 2016.
    If you are having deaths of 10% year on year, do you not perhaps see a flaw in your thousands of years big picture theory.

    Actually don`t bother replying. On second thought I really have no interest in having a discussion with someone who looks on over 3 Million worldwide deaths a year due to a particular virus as an irrevelance.


  • #6641
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    So in Oregon they want to introduce an indefinte mask law ..... basically mask wearing forever ....

    In Canada they want the police to get new powers to keep people locked up in their homes, and asking people to snitch on their neighbours ..

    Canada is becoming a Fascist state.

    Evil evil people, also this at a time when vaccines are being ramped out ..


    https://youtu.be/jdMOAKpXiNc

    Your first sentence is inaccurate and misleading (and the rest of your post is fantasy).
    You should check out for yourself what the indefinite mask law was about!
    Perhaps update the record here with the reality after you check!


  • Advertisement
  • #6642
    User1998
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,010 ✭✭✭User1998


    charlie14 wrote: »
    That really has to be up there with the craziest replies I have ever recieved.



    The world population increased by 1.08% last year. Down from 1.08% for 2019, 1.1% for 2018 and 1.12% for 2016.
    If you are having deaths of 10% year on year, do you not perhaps see a flaw in your thousands of years big picture theory.

    Who said anything about year on year? This is for one year and one year only. We’ve had 3 million with/of covid deaths in a year compared to 55 million general deaths.

    You also have to consider that there are almost 8 billion people walking the earth.

    What I’m saying is that if we had of relaxed with the whole worldwide lockdowns and ended up with 10% excess deaths for one year and one year only would it had really been a massive deal? Its one year out of thousands of years that humans have walked this earth

    Death in old age is natural and it seems that some people have forgotten that. I know its awful for families to have a loved one die but these things inevitably happen unfortunately


  • #6643
    PaulJoseph22
    Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭PaulJoseph22


    Seweryn wrote: »
    The explanation is simple, but there are no official figures supporting the fact.

    Right at the start, it was obvious that the lockdowns and closures of hospital departments would kill far more people than the over-promoted virus. And that is exactly what has happened.

    Hospital departments were shut and hospital staff with not enough to do performed funny dances which were put onto the internet to entertain the patients who were being denied medical treatment. Politicians claimed that hospitals were under huge pressure, but the figures showed that wards and intensive care units were emptier than usual.

    So called cure (the lockdown policies and the refusal to treat other patients to "protect" them from infection) kills far more people than the disease. But no, you will not find it in official figures. Because who is going to admit and explain this? Corrupted politicians or lying doctors?

    This, an absolute disgrace that everything ignored apart from Covid.
    The only way I could get a hospital appointment this year was to go to a private hospital and pay for it.
    This country is a disgrace.


  • #6644
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    PintOfView wrote: »
    Your first sentence is inaccurate and misleading (and the rest of your post is fantasy).
    You should check out for yourself what the indefinite mask law was about!
    Perhaps update the record here with the reality after you check!

    This is the proposed ordinance with regard to masks in Oregon.
    PORTLAND, Ore. (AP)...

    A top health official is considering indefinitely extending rules requiring masks and social distancing in all businesses in the state.

    The proposal would keep the rules in place until they are “no longer necessary to address the effects of the pandemic in the workplace.”

    https://ktvz.com/news/2021/04/17/as-mask-mandates-end-oregon-bucks-trend-with-permanent-rule-sparking-uproar/

    Thing is that the alternative reality is getting worse. I've no doubt much of social media is leading the charge with spreading some of these whackey ideas ie that we're all going to be forced to wear masks forever is up there with all deaths being recorded "with covid" just to artificially inflate death numbers. The whole thing just gets crazier and crazier every time tbh.


  • #6645
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,925 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Is tomorrow the big day or will it be next Tuesday in regards deciding on the restrictions ?


  • #6646
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    gozunda wrote: »
    Again that's your personal interpretation and spinning the word 'with'

    The died "with / of" covid has been dragged over the coals more time than I've had hot dinners already. It doesn't wash.

    For clarification see - the HSPC "Can you describe what death in confirmed/probable/possible case of COVID-19 means?"

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/epidemiologyfrequentlyaskedquestions/

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casedefinitions/covid-19interimcasedefinitionforireland/

    The above include stipulations that death due to Covid cannot be assigned where where there is a clear alternative cause of death (e.g. trauma).

    This is a discussion. So maybe drop the daft personalisation stuff. I could make similar asides - but you know what - I couldn't be arsed.

    Here are cases of people who have died with (of) covid and which were reported in the media and not by reason of being counted in the numbers...

    https://www.thejournal.ie/kilkenny-nurse-dies-covid-19-solson-saviour-5328571-Jan2021/

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53501389

    So strange - I posted the HSE links yesterday evening and this morning in another thread to completely disprove what you are trying to allege.

    Please read the reply to question on the HSE website again. The stipulations apply only to a probable or possible case - where the attending medical professional can make a call in the absence of an ante-mortem test.

    For all deaths with confirmed tests ante-mortem;

    ‘Deaths in confirmed COVID-19 case: A death in a person with laboratory confirmation of COVID-19 infection, irrespective of clinical signs and symptoms (including post mortem).’

    It really couldn’t be any clearer.


  • #6647
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    User1998 wrote: »
    Who said anything about year on year? This is for one year and one year only. We’ve had 3 million with/of covid deaths in a year compared to 55 million general deaths.

    You also have to consider that there are almost 8 billion people walking the earth.

    What I’m saying is that if we had of relaxed with the whole worldwide lockdowns and ended up with 10% excess deaths for one year and one year only would it had really been a massive deal? Its one year out of thousands of years that humans have walked this earth

    Death in old age is natural and it seems that some people have forgotten that. I know its awful for families to have a loved one die but these things inevitably happen unfortunately


    Death will come to us all, but it seems you have an idea as to what age there should be no medical intervention to prolong life

    There are a few other flaws in your no world lockdown theory, but tbh on your natural death belief and your, to paraphrase, "shucks sure over 3 Million deaths from a virus is nothing", as I said it`s a conversation I have no wish to engage in.


  • #6648
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Stormyteacup wrote: »
    So strange - I posted the HSE links yesterday evening and this morning in another thread to completely disprove what you are trying to allege.Please read the reply to question on the HSE website again. The stipulations apply only to a probable or possible case - where the attending medical professional can make a call in the absence of an ante-mortem test.For all deaths with confirmed tests ante-mortem;

    ‘Deaths in confirmed COVID-19 case: A death in a person with laboratory confirmation of COVID-19 infection, irrespective of clinical signs and symptoms (including post mortem).’

    It really couldn’t be any clearer.

    Did you? What HSE links yesterday? Yes I agree it is quite clear.

    The above is the HPSC website detailing the ECDC guidelines for reporting/ determining covid deaths.

    There are three categories for reporting / determining Covid deaths viz

    The first relates to covid cases / deaths which have unequivocally been confirmed by laboratory tests. Its not difficult to understand.

    Deaths in confirmed COVID-19 case: A death in a person with laboratory confirmation of COVID-19 infection, irrespective of clinical signs and symptoms (including post mortem).

    The wording is rather brief- but what it effectively means is that where a person dies as a result of covid which has been determined by a laboratory confirmation- then other criteria do not have to be applied. It does not mean that if you get a positive test this year, recover and get hit by a bus in 10 years time - that cause of death will be put down as a covid related death. It won't.

    The next two are confirmed not by laboratory tests but with regard to a medical diagnosis etc.

    Deaths in probable COVID-19 case: A death in a person with probable COVID-19 infection

    Where a Probable case is defined as
    "Any person meeting the clinical criteria with an epidemiological link
    OR
    Any person meeting the diagnostic imaging criteria"

    Where Clinical criteria

    A patient with acute respiratory infection (sudden onset of at least one of the following; cough, fever1, shortness of breath)

    OR

    Sudden onset of anosmia2, ageusia3 or dysgeusia4

    OR

    A patient with severe acute respiratory infection (fever and at least one sign/symptom of respiratory disease (e.g. cough, fever, shortness of breath)) AND requiring hospitalisation (SARI) AND with no other aetiology that fully explains the clinical presentation.

    Clinical judgement should be applied in application of these criteria to determine who requires testing.

    Diagnostic imaging criteria
    Radiological evidence showing lesions compatible with COVID-19

    Deaths in possible/suspect COVID-19 case:

    Possible Case classification

    Any person meeting the clinical criteria (see above)


    For full definitions of each of the above see link

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casedefinitions/covid-19interimcasedefinitionforireland/


  • #6649
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Is tomorrow the big day or will it be next Tuesday in regards deciding on the restrictions ?

    Next 2 weeks I hear ...


  • #6650
    Sharpyshoot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭Sharpyshoot


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Next 2 weeks I hear ...

    Are critical.


  • #6651
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    gozunda wrote: »
    Did you? What HSE links yesterday

    The above is the HPSC website detailing the ECDC guidelines for reporting/ determining covid deaths.

    I've no idea what you've posted btw.

    Hardly matters - it was an aside, remarking on the coincidence. It’s here; https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058179140&page=2

    Any comment on the answer to the question on HSPC -

    ‘Q. Can you describe what death in confirmed/probable/possible case of COVID-19 means?’

    I’ll post the response re confirmed cases just in case;

    ‘Deaths in confirmed COVID-19 case: A death in a person with laboratory confirmation of COVID-19 infection, irrespective of clinical signs and symptoms (including post mortem).‘

    Thereafter probable and possible cases are explained - but confirmed cases are stand alone as being reported irrespective of clinical signs.


  • Advertisement
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement