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EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

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    #662
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Seems certs/passports won't be needed for a haircut!

    They were never going to be anyway I don't think.

    The only outlet that reported it was the examiner and even at that it was such a vague article.


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    #663
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    They were never going to be anyway I don't think.

    The only outlet that reported it was the examiner and even at that it was such a vague article.
    Most of the speculation about it is impractical to apply, apart from travel and venues that would attract large crowds. Even there it's unclear how widely they might be used.


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    #664
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FileNotFound wrote: »
    As Vaccines - based on whats happening in the UK at least exponentially reduce transmission then restriction on distancing would not required.

    That way a restaurant could fill to standard capacity - which would make them viable.

    Apparently it was lockdowns and not vaccines that were the main reason for the UK drop in transmission...

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-lockdown-is-main-reason-for-drop-in-coronavirus-cases-and-deaths-not-vaccinations-says-boris-johnson-12274266?fbclid=IwAR1aFa3ca7v16vM5JKNuFHkLV79mlJCbgxHuzdf7QDuIDWN9xIVaaibPkmg


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    #665
    Ashbourne hoop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Ashbourne hoop


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Seems certs/passports won't be needed for a haircut!

    It was never going to happen, it didn't stop people losing their reason on social media though.


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    #666
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ah sure MHQ is falling apart and the courts cannot keep up for letting people out. Solicitors and the court of human rights etc are getting stuck in...the passports will do the same..you cannot write legislation quick enough to keep up with rushed legislation...it's a joke designed by jokers for a circus and we are all spectators at this stage.

    The GOVT are looking more inept by the day now with athlete exemptions and adoptive parents being allowed in and out..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9MZUeeg2Ug&ab_channel=KannanLawFirm-Documentalista comes to mind..


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    #667
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    rusty cole wrote: »
    ah sure MHQ is falling apart and the courts cannot keep up for letting people out. Solicitors and the court of human rights etc are getting stuck in...the passports will do the same..you cannot write legislation quick enough to keep up with rushed legislation...it's a joke designed by jokers for a circus and we are all spectators at this stage.

    The GOVT are looking more inept by the day now with athlete exemptions and adoptive parents being allowed in and out..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9MZUeeg2Ug&ab_channel=KannanLawFirm-Documentalista comes to mind..


    How many cases have been through the courts to completion and resulted in release.

    Hadn't heard that anyone had actually won a court case against it yet. When did that happen?


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    #668
    Micky 32
    Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    brenbrady wrote: »
    Apparently it was lockdowns and not vaccines that were the main reason for the UK drop in transmission...

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-lockdown-is-main-reason-for-drop-in-coronavirus-cases-and-deaths-not-vaccinations-says-boris-johnson-12274266?fbclid=IwAR1aFa3ca7v16vM5JKNuFHkLV79mlJCbgxHuzdf7QDuIDWN9xIVaaibPkmg

    Yes that could be possible, only half the population is vaccinated and lockdowns were implemented before the vaccine roll out gathered pace.

    However the fact is the vaccines work and there is no doubt in that or running away from that fact, once the masses are inoculated the cases should stay very low and stable and life for the vaccinated will go on.


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    #669
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Ashbourne hoop wrote: »
    It was never going to happen, it didn't stop people losing their reason on social media though.

    leo did suggest additional freedoms for vaccinated people

    admittedly he suggests much vague guff but he is the Tánaiste and Taoiseach in waiting - lets not pretend it was some social media rumour


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    #670
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Yes that could be possible, only half the population is vaccinated and lockdowns were implemented before the vaccine roll out gathered pace.

    However the fact is the vaccines work and there is no doubt in that or running away from that fact, once the masses are inoculated the cases should stay very low and stable and life for the vaccinated will go on.

    I thought that vaccines only help prevent the person vaccinated from becoming seriously ill but that you can still be infected and transmit the virus, so how does a vaccine prevent transmission?


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    #671
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Seems certs/passports won't be needed for a haircut!

    The place I go to confirmed they won't discriminate based on vaccine status, same with a physio I contacted.


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    #672
    arccosh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭arccosh


    brenbrady wrote: »
    I thought that vaccines only help prevent the person vaccinated from becoming seriously ill but that you can still be infected and transmit the virus, so how does a vaccine prevent transmission?

    vaccinated or not, if you get infected, you get infected.

    Vaccination is never a complete block on infection...

    What it does do is prime your body to make antibodies faster to attack and kill the virus when it enters your body ....

    a certain virus load therefore needs to be present before it triggers an immune response..

    this is different for everyone

    So some people will start to get sick before their body fights back
    Others won't get noticeably sick at all while their body fights off the infection..

    how it reduces infection is it reduces the time the virus has to grow an multiply in a host, to a point where large viral loads are discharged in it's usual transmission vectors (sneezing, coughing etc...)...

    meaning compared to an unvaccinated person, you won't be infectious as long as they would be (if even), reducing transmission vectors and virus survivability..


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    #673
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,719 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Ashbourne hoop wrote: »
    It was never going to happen, it didn't stop people losing their reason on social media though.

    The fact that it was 'floated' at all means it was/is a possibility.

    There have plenty of businesses and individuals pushing for it.

    The average non-committal boards poster only notices people pushing back ('losing their reason') and says "These people [pushing back] are paranoid".


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    #674
    Ashbourne hoop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Ashbourne hoop


    paw patrol wrote: »
    leo did suggest additional freedoms for vaccinated people

    admittedly he suggests much vague guff but he is the Tánaiste and Taoiseach in waiting - lets not pretend it was some social media rumour

    Leo says a lot more than his prayers, lets be honest. For many reasons, vaccinaton passports for the likes of going for a pint or haircut was never going to work. For travel and large sporting/music events it remains a possibility, particularly travel. And even then it's likely to be proof of vaccination, negative test or previous infection. Personally I'd be ok with that.


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    #675
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,499 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    brenbrady wrote: »
    I thought that vaccines only help prevent the person vaccinated from becoming seriously ill but that you can still be infected and transmit the virus, so how does a vaccine prevent transmission?


    There is no doubt that vaccines reduce people's transmission of the virus, although they may not eliminate it completely.


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    #676
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    There is no doubt that vaccines reduce people's transmission of the virus, although they may not eliminate it completely.
    That was always their primary aim, the elimination is a bonus. As I am fond of saying - 5000 cases a day and nobody in hospital is a cold!


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    #677
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    There is no doubt that vaccines reduce people's transmission of the virus, although they may not eliminate it completely.

    I don't think that has been fully established. https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/give-me-a-crash-course-in-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-1.4538261
    Health experts say there is no definitive scientific data yet to show that vaccination prevents transmission, so that risk remains.


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    #678
    arccosh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭arccosh


    brenbrady wrote: »
    I don't think that has been fully established. https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/give-me-a-crash-course-in-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-1.4538261

    it reduces it through people fighting off infection faster, reducing probability of transmission, and reducing viral load if contagious ...

    which has a domino effect if passed to someone vaccinated, they fight off faster, reduce transmission probability and reduce viral load if transmitted...

    repeat until nothing


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    #679
    bfa1509
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    brenbrady wrote: »
    I don't think that has been fully established. https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/give-me-a-crash-course-in-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-1.4538261

    I work for a multinational medical device company and we got a talk recently from the in-house physicians who said the latest data (can't recall source) showed that the vaccines are very effective at preventing transmission.

    They're probably not telling us so as to prevent the OAPs from having raves.


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    #680
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bfa1509 wrote: »
    I work for a multinational medical device company and we got a talk recently from the in-house physicians who said the latest data (can't recall source) showed that the vaccines are very effective at preventing transmission.

    They're probably not telling us so as to prevent the OAPs from having raves.

    I know what you mean, a bit like this time last year when the public was told that facemasks were ineffective to prevent supply shortages.


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    #681
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    brenbrady wrote: »
    I don't think that has been fully established. https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/give-me-a-crash-course-in-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-1.4538261
    But they do prevent serious illness and hospitalisations, their primary aim.


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    #682
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    But they do prevent serious illness and hospitalisations, their primary aim.

    I was asking about transmission in the context of a vaccine passport.


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    #683
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    brenbrady wrote: »
    I was asking about transmission in the context of a vaccine passport.
    It's just one of the many flaws with such passport, it can only state you've been vaccinated. For managing travel that may be enough in the short term.


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    #684
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's just one of the many flaws with such passport, it can only state you've been vaccinated. For managing travel that may be enough in the short term.

    But why does somebody need a vaccine passport to travel if it hasn't been determined that a vaccine will reduce transmission? What does a vaccine passport achieve in that context?


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    #685
    arccosh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭arccosh


    brenbrady wrote: »
    But why does somebody need a vaccine passport to travel if it hasn't been determined that a vaccine will reduce transmission? What does a vaccine passport achieve in that context?

    It has been proven it reduces transmission...lots of data coming from the UK,US, and Israel the last few weeks showing this...

    What hasn't been proven is that it stops transmission.... which is a pretty big ask from a vaccine, because you need to be infected to trigger an immune response, which is different in everyone...

    meaning some people will get to a point of being contagious even with the vaccine...

    But this number is far lower compared to people who haven't had the vaccine, hence reducing the virus


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    #686
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    brenbrady wrote: »
    But why does somebody need a vaccine passport to travel if it hasn't been determined that a vaccine will reduce transmission? What does a vaccine passport achieve in that context?
    A statement that they have been vaccinated and a way for Mediterranean countries, in particular, to welcome visitors this summer.


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    #687
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    A reflection on the complexities of vaccine passports.
    At first glance, this might seems an excellent proposal, a source of reassurance and an important piece of public health protection.
    ...
    On the other hand, this argument is certainly weakened when you see the significant levels of flight travel happening in the US, even during its last pandemic surge.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/vaccine-passports-far-more-complicated-than-they-might-appear-1.4543793


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    #688
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bfa1509 wrote: »
    I work for a multinational medical device company and we got a talk recently from the in-house physicians who said the latest data (can't recall source) showed that the vaccines are very effective at preventing transmission.

    They're probably not telling us so as to prevent the OAPs from having raves.

    ah sure we can trust the medical device industry to give sound advise. Those vaccines were tested on healthy people who were maybe not on medication, or indeed overweight etc. What we see now is real world data, vaccines on people with underlying conditions, with diabetes, hypertension, huge BMI's and people that are on all manner of other medications that have to be and will be deemed safe for inoculation. Also the time between doses once shifted, will run contrary to original trials, whatever the new data is saying. I wouldn't be a bill gates put a chip in my arm brigade man, but I will wait for a good while to see more real world efficacy and adverse reactions, considering these are early days and we have clots albeit rare cases. how long did it take for the narcolepsy to develop post Pandermix?


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    #689
    arccosh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭arccosh


    rusty cole wrote: »
    . how long did it take for the narcolepsy to develop post Pandermix?

    It was rolled out for the 2009 Swine Flu pandemic (having been tested in various forms from 2006).

    Scientists started looking at the Narcolepsy link early 2010 and had substantial evidence of the link around Autumn 2010.

    Around 31 million people were administered in total (some single some double). Which is going to be minute compared to the various Covid vaccines.


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    #690
    wadacrack
    Registered Users Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    Seeing an article like this on RTE would give people reassurance that the vaccines are very effective and possibly relief anxiety for some people who are worried about health effects or more lockdowns looming etc

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1385580666629234688


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    #691
    wadacrack
    Registered Users Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    Seeing an article like this on RTE would give people reassurance that the vaccines are very effective and possibly relief anxiety for some people who are worried about health effects or more lockdowns looming etc

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1385580666629234688


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