Why do Irish people support English teams?

gormdubhgorm · 07-06-2019 10:00pm

8-10 wrote: »

Nah we were in the game. They were better in the second half but panicked a bit in the final third.

I've seen us play much much worse than that

I can't disagree there.
Denmark will be raging though.

Plus I saw a fella with a Cork City jersey in the crowd - fair play to him.
The green jersey can double for Ireland support.

EmmetSpiceland · 07-06-2019 10:02pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Maybe they mean the youth stuff...
https://www.thejournal.ie/senior-cup-fight-3824291-Jan2018/

Or just the players...
https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2019/0605/1053650-irfu-leinster-investigation/

Seems like you are OK in the stadium, just not so much afterwards.

A “brawl” due to underage drinking? An ex player smacking a younger lad? A player pissing on someone’s leg in a pub or riding someone’s girlfriend at a house party he crashed?

Three out of those four examples happened without a game being on that day. The first one relates to schools rugby so I don’t believe it’s applicable here.

We’re talking “scum” causing grief at, or around, rugby matches. I don’t believe rugby has any hooligan or trouble making issues.

The image that LoI has regarding crowd issues and hooliganism still hasn’t gone away, hopefully with all the renewed interest and attendances that will change but there’s no contest when it comes to “match safety” at a rugby match.

odyssey06 · 07-06-2019 10:09pm

Bateman wrote: »

Maybe not you personally but prevalent views

ps half the time it's only said because some LOI weirdo fan starts going on about 'real fans', so it's met with the automatic response of "well the LOI is ****e".
(It doesn't mean all LOI fans are weirdos or that the LOI is always ****e).

odyssey06 · 07-06-2019 10:11pm

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Too busy posting about people supporting English teams to bother watching the Irish team play. You couldn't make it up!

You can do both. Especially given that the ball is in play for about 60 minutes of the 90.

Bonniedog · 07-06-2019 10:13pm

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Something being "crap" is subjective I guess, some people find soccer to be "crap", the shock and horror of it all

I think it is a bit more than subjective.

Rap is cr@p compared to Motown or jazz for example.

Foster and Allen is cr@p compared to the Dubliners.

Sitting in a pub half comatose watching Sky droning most EPL games is cr@p compared to walking up the road to Dalymount or Tolka Park or Oriel Park or wherever.

But lots of people prefer all of those things. Which is their choice and no-one should deny them that.

hetuzozaho · 07-06-2019 10:34pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Sitting in a pub half comatose watching Sky droning most EPL games is cr@p compared to walking up the road to Dalymount or Tolka Park or Oriel Park or wherever.

Might have missed the discussion about the merits of sitting in a pub half comatose!
I know lads who go down the pub after Richmond Park and get half comatose haha

Might be for a different thread though!

FourFourRED · 07-06-2019 10:37pm

Edenmoar wrote: »

Some of us were freezing our gonads off in Dalymount last night.
The EPL is a slick product with tonnes of marketing behind it and far more attractive to people than irish football unfortunately. Plus every irish Liverpool or Yenira fan has a “Me Uncle worked der on the sites in the 80s and used to bring me back programs nall” story as justification.

This may come as a shock to your gonads but it can be very cold in the grounds of English clubs too. This doesn’t stop Irish people from paying a the money to go and attend the games.

You don’t need justification to support a football team other than it’s something you want to do. It’s people who act like you need to justify supporting a team that are far worse than those who support Man United or Liverpool.

blade1 · 07-06-2019 10:50pm

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Too busy posting about people supporting English teams to bother watching the Irish team play. You couldn't make it up!

You mean they are not even at the game :eek:

Jim Gazebo · 07-06-2019 11:15pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

A more subtle kind? Like what, the kind who’d rob you with a pen or a spreadsheet?

If there is any “scum” at international, Pro14 or AIL rugby games they keep very quiet. I haven’t seen, or heard, of any hooliganism at a rugby match in nearly 30 years of going.

Fair play. 30 years of rugby with no scraps. I believe you thousands wouldnt.

Jim Gazebo · 07-06-2019 11:18pm

FourFourFM wrote: »

This may come as a shock to your gonads but it can be very cold in the grounds of English clubs too. This doesn’t stop Irish people from paying a the money to go and attend the games.

You don’t need justification to support a football team other than it’s something you want to do. It’s people who act like you need to justify supporting a team that are far worse than those who support Man United or Liverpool.

Come off it. Support your own league and make it better, you'll enjoy it more. Like give me a break, if it was OK then there'd be a bigger spread of teams followed in England other than Chelsea, arsenal, Liverpool, united and the odd Leeds fan. Its a bandwagon similar to Ireland when they get to a tournament.

Jim Gazebo · 07-06-2019 11:21pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

A “brawl” due to underage drinking? An ex player smacking a younger lad? A player pissing on someone’s leg in a pub or riding someone’s girlfriend at a house party he crashed?

Three out of those four examples happened without a game being on that day. The first one relates to schools rugby so I don’t believe it’s applicable here.

We’re talking “scum” causing grief at, or around, rugby matches. I don’t believe rugby has any hooligan or trouble making issues.

The image that LoI has regarding crowd issues and hooliganism still hasn’t gone away, hopefully with all the renewed interest and attendances that will change but there’s no contest when it comes to “match safety” at a rugby match.

BUT there isn't an image of crowd trouble at LOI games? Give me a recent example. Pats and City start of the season and a scrap in derry? Now go to the English game and therell be a hell of a lot more. So that excuse is bollocks.

EmmetSpiceland · 07-06-2019 11:35pm

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

BUT there isn't an image of crowd trouble at LOI games? Give me a recent example. Pats and City start of the season and a scrap in derry? Now go to the English game and therell be a hell of a lot more. So that excuse is bollocks.

There is most certainly an image of crowd trouble at LoI games.

Maybe it’s all changed in the last year or two when the hipster crowd started following, and hopefully it has, but I’d have my doubts.

I have attended LoI matches in the past and the violence in the “shed” was shocking.

Jim Gazebo · 07-06-2019 11:37pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

There is most certainly an image of crowd trouble at LoI games.

Maybe it’s all changed in the last year or two when the hipster crowd started following, and hopefully it has, but I’d have my doubts.

I have attended LoI matches in the past and the violence in the “shed” was shocking.

I need examples of this "shocking" violence. Is this in the new shed or the old shed? Because if its the old shed I am not going to be able to take you seriously.

trashcan · 07-06-2019 11:37pm

FourFourFM wrote: »

This may come as a shock to your gonads but it can be very cold in the grounds of English clubs too. This doesn’t stop Irish people from paying a the money to go and attend the games.

You don’t need justification to support a football team other than it’s something you want to do. It’s people who act like you need to justify supporting a team that are far worse than those who support Man United or Liverpool.

Not too cold in front of the tv, or in the pub though. And of course you're right, no-one needs to justify supporting an English team, funny how many feel the need to do so though.

The Moldy Gowl · 07-06-2019 11:46pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

There is most certainly an image of crowd trouble at LoI games.

Maybe it’s all changed in the last year or two when the hipster crowd started following, and hopefully it has, but I’d have my doubts.

I have attended LoI matches in the past and the violence in the “shed” was shocking.

Ah you're back.

Weren't you the lad who was asked specifically what happened but couldn't answer because it didn't happen?
The shed? What's that?

Why would there be violence among the same supporters?

Few bohs and rovers fans having a scrap before the game, fair enough.

SHOVELLER · 07-06-2019 11:55pm

Greyfox wrote: »

You don't have to be from the area to be really into it. The passion, joy, pain, attachment and love is the same for the manu/Liverpool supporter living in Dublin as for the LOI fan. There's nothing artificial about a Dub following an English team, my English team have given me hundredths of wonderful memories, made my friendships stronger, made my family bonds stronger and made my working relationships stronger. There's nothing neutral about a supporter of an English team. The reality is the connection I feel now to my English club cannot be matched by a LOI team.

It is all artificial.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Most of the viewers of a World Cup final or All Ireland final are neutrals though.
And a Champions League final v All ireland final, much difference in intensity? Nope.
Sport isn't tribal in its essence, though as humans are a tribal species we tag it as such.
The soccer teams we are discussing in this thread weren't formed by tribes or to encourage tribalism. County or country teams only exist because of clubs - which came first. They were all just groups of players starting out, one team of many in a city or town.

Sport doesn't need spectators. It doesn't need fans. It just needs players and participants.

You should really stop posting. Like listening to trump supporters here.

Strumms wrote: »

People enjoy the Premiership, La Liga etc simply because it’s a much much better, much much more entertaining product than has been on offer here.

Better players
Better teams
Better facilities
Better atmospheres
Better competition
Better entertainment
Better excitement
Better occasions....

BETTER.

In addition there will have beeen in many cases the likes of family loyalty etc..

If you want some invisible credit like pat on the back for preferring to be down Tolka Park on a pissy cold and wet evening in April, in a quarter full ‘stadium’ with little atmosphere, debatable interest, players doing there upmost more power to you, I say why not try both and ENJOY both were possible but the idea that people should be questioned or criticized for liking Premiership football is just fûcking daft and some.

Why do barstoolers always use the cold and wet argument? Is the weather in ingerland better too?

The whole better thing qualifies you as a glory hunter.

AidoEirE wrote: »

Why do irish support english teams

Easy, the irish league and setup is ****e. You go to an lou game its misery battling wind, rain and the quality of football is seriously inferior mever mind the fact the fai put **** all into its countries soccer league, compared to the english side, where if you go to a match, its a phenomanl spectacle, protected by the elements and the atmosphere is far superior with 40 to 60 thousand people depending on where you go.

Home side, the premiere league is on every saturday and sunday, loi has feck all games on tv and if they are on at daft times.
Theres no promotion by rte or any of the tv license money we pay for.

It's a no given why so many supprort the english teams, because its done so much better.

And to be honest, who cares, let people enjoy what they want.

Embarrassing how clueless this is.

Deleted User wrote: »

Rubbish. If say you grew up in Westport in Mayo (like me), wheres my 'local' LoI club? The nearest one ever has been Galway (50 miles away). The next nearest are 75 to 80 miles way (Sligo, Longford etc). Heres a map of showing a distribution of LoI clubs (not all are shown). The LoI is not relevant to many people who like soccer in this country. Thats not intended as a derogatory comment btw, but one based on geography.

I know Rovers fans who travel from Roscommon and Wexford for every game.

8-10 wrote: »

There's no such thing as this "real fan" except in the unwritten rules of people who care about what other people do with their lives.

Anyone wearing a Liverpool shirt is fine by me whatever their reasons - I consider them a fan/supporter

Actually there is such a thing as a real fan. It happens everywhere in the world except Ireland. Its called supporting a club from your own country.

grenadino wrote: »

I'd hardly call it a pro league similar to Belgium, Netherlands, Scotland, England etc. The facilities certainly aren't.
And to the person who reckoned fans wouldn't travel if teams got relegated. Plenty of Leeds Utd fans travel over to England from Ireland.

Ever been to Tallaght Stadium?

Greyfox · 08-06-2019 12:05am

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Come off it. Support your own league and make it better, you'll enjoy it more. Like give me a break, if it was OK then there'd be a bigger spread of teams followed in England other than Chelsea, arsenal, Liverpool, united and the odd Leeds fan. Its a bandwagon similar to Ireland when they get to a tournament.

My league is the EPL, but as I'm Irish I think I should support the Irish league too. There's nothing to be gained from a EPL v LOI argument. There's no rule that says you can't support both.

Jim Gazebo · 08-06-2019 12:07am

SHOVELLER wrote: »

It is all artificial.

You should really stop posting. Like listening to trump supporters here.

Why do barstoolers always use the cold and wet argument? Is the weather in ingerland better too?

The whole better thing qualifies you as a glory hunter.

Embarrassing how clueless this is.

I know Rovers fans who travel from Roscommon and Wexford for every game.

Actually there is such a thing as a real fan. It happens everywhere in the world except Ireland. Its called supporting a club from your own country.

Ever been to Tallaght Stadium?

Outstanding, fair play. Nail on the head.

Jim Gazebo · 08-06-2019 12:08am

Greyfox wrote: »

My league is the EPL, but as I'm Irish I think I should support the Irish league too. There's nothing to be gained from a EPL v LOI argument. There's no rule that says you can't support both.

Yes but do you support both?

Omackeral · 08-06-2019 12:16am

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I have attended LoI matches in the past and the violence in the “shed” was shocking.

Which ''shed'' was this?

Was it the same shed where the fans were chanting Bomb the Premier League from that other thread?

Omackeral · 08-06-2019 12:19am

Greyfox wrote: »

My league is the EPL, but as I'm Irish...

Well then it's kinda not. What do you think that 'E' stands for?

Greyfox wrote: »

There's no rule that says you can't support both (LOI and EPL)

This is true. Wish more would.

Greyfox · 08-06-2019 12:44am

SHOVELLER wrote: »

It is all artificial.

I know Rovers fans who travel from Roscommon and Wexford for every game.

Actually there is such a thing as a real fan. It happens everywhere in the world except Ireland. Its called supporting a club from your own country.

Utter nonsense, absolutely nothing artificial about it which is why most Irish people will always prefer the EPL

If the Rovers fans use to live in Tallaght I admire them and if there not from Tallaght then there the same as Irish fans flying over to Old Trafford/Anfield

And where is this rulebook that defines a real fan?.. Oh you just made it up yourself.. making up rules it something children do, next you'll be saying a real Irish person should only buy food produced in Ireland and that were not allowed to support sports stars who are not Irish

MarkY91 · 08-06-2019 3:32am

Champions of Europe.

Granadino · 08-06-2019 7:11am

On the same note , there are plenty of people in Spain who support R Madrid or Barca and are as far from those two cities as Dublin is from Liverpool etc.They don’t support their local smaller teams or sometimes support both.
Same in Italy with Juventus.

8-10 · 08-06-2019 7:27am

MarkY91 wrote: »

Champions of Europe.

You'd think this feeling would have ended by now but it's been a week

The fact you had 750,000 at the victory parade on Sunday in a city with a population of 500,000 that has 2 clubs tells you all you need to know about this being much much more than a local club. It's global club and this idea that the Irish are unique in supporting teams like this over their own is laughable. It's Australians, Norweigens, Mayalsians, Germans, Egyptians, Americans and many many many more who support this team and why our games are broadcast everywhere. 46m YouTube views in May, more than any club on the planet. That's not coming just from Ireland and Liverpool.

The EPL can't be compared to a grassroots league. It's bigger and better.

MarkY91 · 08-06-2019 7:47am

8-10 wrote: »

You'd think this feeling would have ended by now but it's been a week

The fact you had 750,000 at the victory parade on Sunday in a city with a population of 500,000 that has 2 clubs tells you all you need to know about this being much much more than a local club. It's global club and this idea that the Irish are unique in supporting teams like this over their own is laughable. It's Australians, Norweigens, Mayalsians, Germans, Egyptians, Americans and many many many more who support this team and why our games are broadcast everywhere. 46m YouTube views in May, more than any club on the planet. That's not coming just from Ireland and Liverpool.

The EPL can't be compared to a grassroots league. It's bigger and better.

I was on a flight to Malaysia the day after the game and there was loads of them in jerseys quite obviously coming home from Madrid. Anyone who goes to anfield will often meet Norwegians in a pub near the stadium.

Huge following in America too. Seen loads of supporters bars online.

8-10 · 08-06-2019 8:19am

MarkY91 wrote: »

I was on a flight to Malaysia the day after the game and there was loads of them in jerseys quite obviously coming home from Madrid. Anyone who goes to anfield will often meet Norwegians in a pub near the stadium.

Huge following in America too. Seen loads of supporters bars online.

I met all sorts in Madrid after the game partying on the street. Probably mostly English from outside of Liverpool but also lots from Ireland and Norway. Same with the fanzone beforehand. Plenty from Liverpool, sure, but it was clearly a more diverse celebration

I think it’s great to be honest. The way people are talking here it’s as if they think Liverpool is only supported by locals and Irish people who are ignoring the LOI.

They just don’t have a concept of what the modern elite EPL team is like. A global family. A community of its own.

johnory1 · 08-06-2019 9:36am

I remember some die hard liverpool fan tell me how bad Loi is a couple of years ago , his main moaning point was the pitch at Dalymount, and how unlevel it was at one end, this cracked me up as any who had seen a game at anfield would know that the pitch was famously unlevel at one end.

Granadino · 08-06-2019 9:56am

I think the LoI hooligans are hilarious as well. Apeing the English. Twats.

Omackeral · 08-06-2019 9:58am

grenadino wrote: »

I think the LoI hooligans are hilarious as well. Apeing the English. Twats.

You couldn't have picked a more English sounding word than twat if you tried.

Jim Gazebo · 08-06-2019 10:56am

8-10 wrote: »

I met all sorts in Madrid after the game partying on the street. Probably mostly English from outside of Liverpool but also lots from Ireland and Norway. Same with the fanzone beforehand. Plenty from Liverpool, sure, but it was clearly a more diverse celebration

I think it’s great to be honest. The way people are talking here it’s as if they think Liverpool is only supported by locals and Irish people who are ignoring the LOI.

They just don’t have a concept of what the modern elite EPL team is like. A global family. A community of its own.

No what you are not understanding is most of those countries have the problem we have where people want to follow the glory. Their local Leagues are also poor and unsupported.

The Moldy Gowl · 08-06-2019 11:12am

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

No what you are not understanding is most of those countries have the problem we have where people want to follow the glory. Their local Leagues are also poor and unsupported.

Dunno. A lot of those countries have decent leauges.
Like the Norwegian leauge and Danish would have good crowds and they are similar to us here and they have a heavy following of English football.
But they go down to their local leauge as well, same with the yanks as well. The mls is pulling in serious crowds these days.
Pretty sure Asia has a decent leauge as well.

There is no problem following top flight football. Its a completely different beast, its nearly a separate thing at this stage.
I just found going to games completely changes your view on how the game is played.

Jim Gazebo · 08-06-2019 11:15am

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

Dunno. A lot of those countries have decent leauges.
Like the Norwegian leauge and Danish would have good crowds and they are similar to us here and they have a heavy following of English football.
But they go down to their local leauge as well, same with the yanks as well. The mls is pulling in serious crowds these days.
Pretty sure Asia has a decent leauge as well.

There is no problem following top flight football. Its a completely different beast, its nearly a separate thing at this stage.
I just found going to games completely changes your view on how the game is played.

Agreed on Denmark, Norway not so much outside of rosenborg. But that's the way it should be done, and we could have that if people piled into the grounds here. The atmosphere in a packed tallaght, dalymount, Turners Cross is unbelievable and should keep people coming. But it doesn't. Because people can say, we won the champions league the loi is crap.

Jim Gazebo · 08-06-2019 11:16am

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Agreed on Denmark, Norway not so much outside of rosenborg. But that's the way it should be done, and we could have that if people piled into the grounds here. The atmosphere in a packed tallaght, dalymount, Turners Cross is unbelievable and should keep people coming. But it doesn't. Because people can say, we won the champions league the loi is crap.

What I'm saying is, we could do both like Denmark say. But we have people who don't want to.

gormdubhgorm · 08-06-2019 11:20am

I am still struck by the level of cognitive dissonance by Irish fans those who support English Premier League clubs.
Yet they also support Ireland at an international level

Representation - sense of place - identity - community:

The English club

It does not represent where the Irish person is from, at all.
It is a foreign city in a foreign land.
A manufactured choice based purely on success, marketing and consumerism.
Not an identity in any shape or form.

The Irish football team -

The Irish football team represents the country the supporter is from - a natural connection,
Not manufactured, it is organic.
A natural choice.

Standard-Level-Quality-Style of play:

The English Club:

When supporting the English club only the best will do - this normally means top six team.
Best players, great style of play, glamour, excitement etc

The Irish football team:

The Irish football team have a terrible style of play.
Most of the players are journeymen pros.
The style ranges from hoofing the ball all the time - to not hoofing it as much
None of the players can arguably be called 'world class'.

Yet when you ask the same Irish Premier League supporter to support a LOI team/local team like they would with Ireland.
Suddenly the excuses start......

It's crazy really, it is like part of the brain shuts off and all logic disappears.

Omackeral · 08-06-2019 11:22am

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

The atmosphere in a packed tallaght, dalymount, Turners Cross is unbelievable and should keep people coming. But it doesn't.

I've found that if you start people off on a derby game or a high stakes fixture, you're likely to get them back again. The colour, the noise, even the venom... being in the middle of it all does hook them in a bit. They're kind of taken in by it, from what I've seen anyway. I think if people give it a chance and luck is on your side that the atmosphere is good or a decent performance is put on they'll come back.

It's getting them there initially that's tough, and then doubly challenging if they happen to see an uninspiring game and write the lot off and that's that for them. There's an element of fortune in these things. I also think people should give it at least two or three games before making up their mind completely.

The Moldy Gowl · 08-06-2019 11:30am

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Agreed on Denmark, Norway not so much outside of rosenborg. But that's the way it should be done, and we could have that if people piled into the grounds here. The atmosphere in a packed tallaght, dalymount, Turners Cross is unbelievable and should keep people coming. But it doesn't. Because people can say, we won the champions league the loi is crap.

I just did a quick Google there on Norway. They have some moderately sized stadiums. https://www.transfermarkt.com/eliteserien/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/NO1/saison_id/2017

A lot of 3/4/5k attendence. Few tipping 10.If Ireland could get that base of people going week in week out that would be good going.
If the new crowd come in and change the leauge here and in 5/10 years, the facilities are looked after it would be a good leauge and be able to hold onto the good players. Few teams would even sneak into the champions leauge.

Top level football is changing for the worse with the money and curruption going on and the proposed plans. Sure look at the world Cup in qator and how many fans are saying they will boycott it but still watch it.

I was probably one of those fans who brushed aside the loi and I regret it after I gave it a chance.
Now ill be on the bus to Waterford in a few weeks with bohs lads i didn't know a year ago having a great day out.
If you told me that 3 years ago I wouldn't believe you.

Jim Gazebo · 08-06-2019 11:46am

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

I just did a quick Google there on Norway. They have some moderately sized stadiums. https://www.transfermarkt.com/eliteserien/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/NO1/saison_id/2017

A lot of 3/4/5k attendence. Few tipping 10.If Ireland could get that base of people going week in week out that would be good going.
If the new crowd come in and change the leauge here and in 5/10 years, the facilities are looked after it would be a good leauge and be able to hold onto the good players. Few teams would even sneak into the champions leauge.

Top level football is changing for the worse with the money and curruption going on and the proposed plans. Sure look at the world Cup in qator and how many fans are saying they will boycott it but still watch it.

I was probably one of those fans who brushed aside the loi and I regret it after I gave it a chance.
Now ill be on the bus to Waterford in a few weeks with bohs lads i didn't know a year ago having a great day out.
If you told me that 3 years ago I wouldn't believe you.

That is superb to hear. There is hope for us yet, it is one of the great football experiences, seeing your team win away. The day out and the feeling leaving that place with 3 points, enjoy it all.

8-10 · 08-06-2019 11:48am

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

No what you are not understanding is most of those countries have the problem we have where people want to follow the glory. Their local Leagues are also poor and unsupported.

I understand it, that's the point I was making! It's others who don't get that.

It was in reply to this post which was suggesting Ireland is somehow unique:

SHOVELLER wrote: »

It happens everywhere in the world except Ireland. Its called supporting a club from your own country.

You said that post was "nail on the head"

I'm saying it's not "everywhere in the world except Ireland"

You can't have it both ways. You can't agree that it's everywhere but Ireland and agree that most of the other countries have the same problem.

It's not unique to Ireland. And I'm not going to worry for a second about any of those leagues when I watch and support my team

gormdubhgorm · 08-06-2019 11:58am

Omackeral wrote: »

I've found that if you start people off on a derby game or a high stakes fixture, you're likely to get them back again. The colour, the noise, even the venom... being in the middle of it all does hook them in a bit. They're kind of taken in by it, from what I've seen anyway. I think if people give it a chance and luck is on your side that the atmosphere is good or a decent performance is put on they'll come back.

It's getting them there initially that's tough, and then doubly challenging if they happen to see an uninspiring game and write the lot off and that's that for them. There's an element of fortune in these things. I also think people should give it at least two or three games before making up their mind completely.

Well with the big GAA head on me, I decided to go an see Rovers v Dundalk this month.
Because I saw Rovers v Bohs on the telly recently, and thought -
'Oh that looks like a bit of craic, packed ground atmosphere. - A bit like Parnell park.'

I will be going as a neutral travelling across from the other side of Dublin, in the hope of seeing a game with a bit of tension and bite.
I go with no aspirations about quality/standard/level and the like.
I just will be going to see a game of soccer and two teams giving it a lash, in a good atmosphere.

Greyfox · 08-06-2019 12:45pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am still struck by the level of cognitive dissonance by Irish fans those who support English Premier League clubs.
Yet they also support Ireland at an international level

Representation - sense of place - identity - community:

...It's crazy really, it is like part of the brain shuts off and all logic disappears.

I watch the national team as its the country I was born in, I get the sense of identity. In Dublin though its common for a EPL fan to live a 15 min drive away from a LOI stadium and feel zero sense of identity/community from LOI football so they dont feel a connection with the LOI as they didnt grow up with family/friends talking about the LOI as they always talked about a different league instead. Now if they go to a few good LOI matches a connection would likely develop but if they never went to a LOI game the identity/community thing means absolutely nothing to them. All LOI fans can do is persuade more EPL fans of the benifits of LOI and hope they give LOI a fair chance, it can be tough though as people have busy lives these days.

8-10 · 08-06-2019 12:56pm

Greyfox wrote: »

All LOI fans can do is persuade more EPL fans of the benifits of LOI and hope they give LOI a fair chance, it can be tough though as people have busy lives these days.

Yeah and persuading should come from the club too and some try things well in fairness to them.

The main issue is this argument "you should support it because it's your area and it's your responsibility to ensure the league gets the support to succeed instead of embarrassingly following an English team and singing pathetic songs"

It's more of a turn off to be constantly told how to spend your money and this perception of being forced to buy into something because it happens nearby

And then people are surprised that we don't feel pride in our local team and don't want to go to games where people only care if you're a real fan and look down on you if you only go to the bigger games. It's not a welcoming attitude at all

These people should be happy with the EPL fans who don't go to LOI games because they don't adhere to these rules so they shouldn't want them there anyway

It's a shame that you can't just take the attitude that it's great for any fan to go to games and not to care about their reason for support. That's how I feel about Liverpool. Always happy to see fans going to games. Have no reason to care about why they're there

RobMc59 · 08-06-2019 1:01pm

You're talking about watching a game-people aren't pledging allegiance to anyone or being unpatriotic.
I don't particularly like liverpool (arch rivals)but went to a game many years ago with a friend who supported liverpool when they played st etienne at Anfield and will never forget the electric atmosphere and roar of the crowd for as long as I live-Ive also experienced dramatic,exhilarating games at goodison which can't be matched .(I've also been to tranmere rovers matches, it's good but not the same as top flight).

gormdubhgorm · 08-06-2019 1:08pm

Greyfox wrote: »

I watch the national team as its the country I was born in, I get the sense of identity. In Dublin though its common for a EPL fan to live a 15 min drive away from a LOI stadium and feel zero sense of identity/community from LOI football so they dont feel a connection with the LOI as they didnt grow up with family/friends talking about the LOI as they always talked about a different league instead. Now if they go to a few good LOI matches a connection would likely develop but if they never went to a LOI game the identity/community thing means absolutely nothing to them. All LOI fans can do is persuade more EPL fans of the benifits of LOI and hope they give LOI a fair chance, it can be tough though as people have busy lives these days.

So it is much much easier to travel to an airport by car/bus, get there two hours before the flight.
Travel over to England....
Then get more transportation from there to the Stadium?

Plus that is not getting into the difference in cost etc.

Jim Gazebo · 08-06-2019 1:14pm

8-10 wrote: »

I understand it, that's the point I was making! It's others who don't get that.

It was in reply to this post which was suggesting Ireland is somehow unique:

You said that post was "nail on the head"

I'm saying it's not "everywhere in the world except Ireland"

You can't have it both ways. You can't agree that it's everywhere but Ireland and agree that most of the other countries have the same problem.

It's not unique to Ireland. And I'm not going to worry for a second about any of those leagues when I watch and support my team

I think it has been established I was wrong here. Most other countries do support their own and then something after. I don't get peoples defensiveness, just admit you couldn't be bothered following the loi because it isn't fashionable. This is the reason I think.

gormdubhgorm · 08-06-2019 1:46pm

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

I think it has been established I was wrong here. Most other countries do support their own and then something after. I don't get peoples defensiveness, just admit you couldn't be bothered following the loi because it isn't fashionable. This is the reason I think.

It all comes back to branding.
Look at how the locals in Doonbeg view Trump.
A billionaire businessman pumped money into a golf club and hotel.
The club and hotel bring in business and money.
Now not only that he is President of the United States!

Trump looked after thier own, thier community.
Now all the yanks that go to Ireland will want to go there.

It is the reverse of what happens with the Irish Premier league 'tourist's' travel over to England.
Where the clubs are owned by billionaire businessmen.

Jim Gazebo · 08-06-2019 1:54pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It all comes back to branding.
Look at how the locals in Doonbeg view Trump.
A billionaire businessman pumped money into a golf club and hotel.
The club and hotel bring in business and money.
Now not only that he is President of the United States!

Trump looked after thier own, thier community.
Now all the yanks that go to Ireland will want to go there.

It is the reverse of what happens with the Irish Premier league 'tourist's' travel over to England.
Where the clubs are owned by billionaire businessmen.

Exactly. If you say you follow city, the person will generally next ask why, how, its ****e etc etc etc. It would drive you insane. And middle of the road lads like 8-10 here who will go to a few games but use excuses like I can't watch away games as their excuse for not supporting the loi, are the worst of the lot. Saying you understand when you don't.

The Moldy Gowl · 08-06-2019 2:01pm

8-10 wrote: »

Yeah and persuading should come from the club too and some try things well in fairness to them.

The main issue is this argument "you should support it because it's your area and it's your responsibility to ensure the league gets the support to succeed instead of embarrassingly following an English team and singing pathetic songs"

It's more of a turn off to be constantly told how to spend your money and this perception of being forced to buy into something because it happens nearby

And then people are surprised that we don't feel pride in our local team and don't want to go to games where people only care if you're a real fan and look down on you if you only go to the bigger games. It's not a welcoming attitude at all

These people should be happy with the EPL fans who don't go to LOI games because they don't adhere to these rules so they shouldn't want them there anyway

It's a shame that you can't just take the attitude that it's great for any fan to go to games and not to care about their reason for support. That's how I feel about Liverpool. Always happy to see fans going to games. Have no reason to care about why they're there

Clubs do their bit. Dundalk and Cork push themselves on their patch, especially dundalk.
Rovers do the same in tallaght and same with bohs. The clubs are doing all they can really, it's more the fai who don't really care.

Here is a video bohs did at the start of last season. Pretty sure rovers do something similar.

https://mobile.twitter.com/bfcdublin/status/957946012164816896

8-10 · 08-06-2019 3:11pm

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

I think it has been established I was wrong here. Most other countries do support their own and then something after. I don't get peoples defensiveness, just admit you couldn't be bothered following the loi because it isn't fashionable. This is the reason I think.

Who cares what the reason is? The actual reason is because I had already selected my team before even knowing about the LOI. But sure it’s because it’s not fashionable or because I hate Ireland and love the Brits or because of advertising and I’m a consumer.

It doesn’t matter. Any reason is a valid reason for following your team. The entire point we’re going over and over again is that it shouldn’t matter except to many LOI fans it seems to.

And it’s the fact that many LOI fans care about the reasons other fans support a club that put people off going. Why would I go to a game now at my age knowing that the guy beside me looks down on me for not going all my life and because I support Liverpool? Why even bother if I’m being judged before going to the turnstiles?

Greyfox · 08-06-2019 3:29pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So it is much much easier to travel to an airport by car/bus, get there two hours before the flight.
Travel over to England....

On tv been in a crowd with 70,000 people following a team you love looks like a great experience and it helps when you know the players and are traveling with friends, it's a great experience. I've been to St pats games before, my initial thoughts pre game where like a lot of EPL fans.. 5,000 people can't be a v good atmosphere but I was wrong it can be a nice atmosphere

Why do Irish people support English teams?

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