Dublin - Significant reduction in rents coming?

Ozark707 · 13-04-2020 5:27pm

Melanchthon wrote: »

It is bundled with the price in any place you see on daft which has an awful lot of properties in the rent pressure zones.

So from the practical sense is it the LL who pays it?

Blut2 · 13-04-2020 5:33pm

Experience_day wrote: »

Seems pretty unfair to me. Making the market and thus country pretty unpalatable feels short sighted...

How exactly is it unfair to tax long term vacant properties within RPZs? Its probably one of the more "fair" extra taxes the government can levy that I can think of - certainly in comparison to the alternative revenue raising streams of increasing things like PAYE or USC on workers.

Even revenue raising aside, there really should be no long term vacant properties at all in RPZs, given the accommodation crisis. Anything that helps incentivize that, and also raise revenue for the government at the same time, is a pretty easy sell to the vast, vast majority of voters.

I don't think you'll find any political party rushing to defend the rights of landlords to keep properties long term vacant in RPZs, its pretty indefensible in the current climate.

DubCount · 13-04-2020 5:58pm

Blut2 wrote: »

Even revenue raising aside, there really should be no long term vacant properties at all in RPZs, given the accommodation crisis. Anything that helps incentivize that, and also raise revenue for the government at the same time, is a pretty easy sell to the vast, vast majority of voters.

What about people going into nursing homes, will their vacant property be taxed.

What about student accommodation that cant be filled in summer months, will they be taxed.

What about when people die and their property is stuck in probate, should that be taxed.

Nothing in tax is simple.

Shefwedfan · 13-04-2020 9:45pm

Blut2 wrote: »

How exactly is it unfair to tax long term vacant properties within RPZs? Its probably one of the more "fair" extra taxes the government can levy that I can think of - certainly in comparison to the alternative revenue raising streams of increasing things like PAYE or USC on workers.

Even revenue raising aside, there really should be no long term vacant properties at all in RPZs, given the accommodation crisis. Anything that helps incentivize that, and also raise revenue for the government at the same time, is a pretty easy sell to the vast, vast majority of voters.

I don't think you'll find any political party rushing to defend the rights of landlords to keep properties long term vacant in RPZs, its pretty indefensible in the current climate.

Have you seen some of the tenants going around? why would a landlord have to rent a property for some person to turn it into s**t, the landlord is then left with the cost to get rid of them and also to clean up the mess....

If every tenant was a good tenant then yes you could say it is indefensible, but in reality Ireland has a lot of crappy tenants

overkill602 · 13-04-2020 10:02pm

Blut2 wrote: »

How exactly is it unfair to tax long term vacant properties within RPZs? Its probably one of the more "fair" extra taxes the government can levy that I can think of - certainly in comparison to the alternative revenue raising streams of increasing things like PAYE or USC on workers.

Even revenue raising aside, there really should be no long term vacant properties at all in RPZs, given the accommodation crisis. Anything that helps incentivize that, and also raise revenue for the government at the same time, is a pretty easy sell to the vast, vast majority of voters.

I don't think you'll find any political party rushing to defend the rights of landlords to keep properties long term vacant in RPZs, its pretty indefensible in the current climate.

(1) landlords also pay USC

(2) many vacant properties may not meet our high standard remember we dumped bedsits do you force LL to bring them up to standard?

(3) hence the diminishing supply.

(4) keep smoking that left wing weed some day it may not be SW supplied

Assetbacked · 13-04-2020 10:41pm

The RPZs exist for a reason, while I would have sympathy for property owners outside of the RPZs, the reality is that these areas are so designated as society has evolved to concentrate a lot of economic and social activity in these areas meaning they are extremely valuable. It is better that they are occupied given their value and there needs to be an incentive to do this.

zweton · 13-04-2020 11:13pm

Out of curiosity has anyone's landlord brought down your monthly rent? E.g your now on covid payment and were paying too much in the first instance.

JamesMason · 13-04-2020 11:42pm

cisk wrote: »

Belgrave property who own something like 50 STL studio and 1 bed properties in D2, D4, D6 have plastered 1 MONTH FREE RENT all over their ads. Looks like a sign of desperation to get people in for “free” in April and then monthly until the tourists start coming back.

https://www.daft.ie/22020888

It will be a long time before any tourists come back

LuckyLloyd · 14-04-2020 6:03am

Ticking and Bashing wrote: »

I can't imagine IRES REIT (Ireland's biggest private landlord) reducing rents anytime soon.

I can’t imagine they’ll keep high vacancy rates for 12 months +, something will have to give.

Ozark707 · 14-04-2020 8:04am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I can’t imagine they’ll keep high vacancy rates for 12 months +, something will have to give.

This. Up to now they have not had to worry , now they do. What will happen when an existing tenant realises they are paying way over the odds and can secure cheaper rent elsewhere... when that phone call comes through will they accept reality?

14-04-2020 8:10am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Have you seen some of the tenants going around? why would a landlord have to rent a property for some person to turn it into s**t, the landlord is then left with the cost to get rid of them and also to clean up the mess....

If every tenant was a good tenant then yes you could say it is indefensible, but in reality Ireland has a lot of crappy tenants

Have you seen some of the landlords around... There's a lot of crappy landlords around.
Landlords that would rather lose money on not renting a place out, than reducing the price so it's actually affordable

JimmyVik · 14-04-2020 8:23am

I posted this in another thread but it would be a good fit here.

Some musings over the weekend

I was thinking of buying maybe this year or next year.
Over the weekend especially i was giving my housing situation a huge amount of thought.

2 months ago, I had a nice job but was going to move to London to a new job before the summer. I was saving for a mortgage and living in a granny flat in my parents, but the mortgage idea was long term in case I got sick of London and moved home.

So now here I am.
New plan.
Im going to stay in my current job, which is safe enough, for the next year or so and ride out whats to come. Plans to buy are off the table. Plans to emigrate are off the table.
My brother recently took advantage of the lack of market and the cheap nice apartments that have come online in the last few weeks and we had a good chat yesterday.
I will do the same. Im going to start looking today for one of these good deals, before everyone else gets the idea. The plan will be to take one with a good rent and good location. Hopefully pay deposit and get a move in date of maybe start of June if I can. No point moving in sooner because this covid thing could run and run.

So i'll pay deposit now , but pay rent from June. Thats my plan. I'll post back how I got on. Maybe I wont get a deal like that, but i'll certainly give it a go.

Peter File · 14-04-2020 8:42am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have you seen some of the landlords around... There's a lot of crappy landlords around.
Landlords that would rather lose money on not renting a place out, than reducing the price so it's actually affordable

The REITS have to answer to their shareholders who will want a return on their investment.

JimmyVik · 14-04-2020 9:38am

Right I have a short list of 5 now to call. All within about 45 minutes of Dublin CC. Going to make some calls and i'll let you know.
This is going to be interesting.

JimmyVik · 14-04-2020 10:03am

Only 1 answered out of the 5.
They actually have 2 apartments to let. Only 1 was advertised.
They are only 5 month lease so I wasnt interested. It didnt say that in the advert.

I'll add another one to my shortlist to replace that one. Just gpoing to work off short list of 5 at a time.
I'll try the others again in a few minutes.

Edit:

Interesting experiment this.
Got through to 4 of them now. MAybe they are just late sleepers.
1 Gone. Wouldnt tell me anymore
2 short term, so no good.

One I would be very interested in. I know the area already. Its through an agency. They sent me a video walkthrough and loads of pictures.
The rent seems is at least €150 below what the normal price was before COVID-19. I have the averages for that are already and some old listings from the same block. Couldnt get him to go any lower on the price.
He wants 3 months deposit and is happy for me to pay the deposit now and first rent in advance on 1st June and then start charging rent from 1st June. I chanced 1st July but no go. If I dont move in he keeps deposit for rent for April, May, June.
He wants a Skype video call with me after I send references, photos of statements, passport etc. The usual stuff.

Not ready to hand over that kind of cash yet, but if its a good deal I would. So going to keep looking. I figure I can take my time for now, but its an interesting experiment. I really want to move, but I dont have to if it doesnt suit either, so im easy either way. So a good deal is a necessity here.

I'll try a few more and report back.

overkill602 · 14-04-2020 10:10am

hope you keep to the 2km rules

Esse85 · 14-04-2020 10:32am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Right I have a short list of 5 now to call. All within about 45 minutes of Dublin CC. Going to make some calls and i'll let you know.
This is going to be interesting.

Are you looking to negotiate on the advertised asking price for rent?

I'm sure we'd be all interested in hearing whether landlords consider lower offers.

Thanks

Edgware · 14-04-2020 10:40am

If there are some easing of the restrictions in May you will find movement in the market.
Jobs which can be carried out still with adherence to social distancing will mean more back to work. There will still be more supply than in the Spring so the landlord who wont be flexible will be left with an empty property. I think the one or two property landlord will be more flexible. There is plenty scope to make up any losses for any landlord with a bit of initiative

JimmyVik · 14-04-2020 10:51am

Esse85 wrote: »

Are you looking to negotiate on the advertised asking price for rent?

I'm sure we'd be all interested in hearing whether landlords consider lower offers.

Thanks

Yep, trying to negotiate on price.
Its not easy though, because some youve to email them and the email you back or not, so thats the only way you have to actually talk to them.
IT will take a lot of time I think before actuallytalking to enough to get a feel.
But sure im at home and had holidays booked this week that i cant give back

So loads of time to spare.

JimmyVik · 14-04-2020 10:53am

Edgware wrote: »

If there are some easing of the restrictions in May you will find movement in the market.
Jobs which can be carried out still with adherence to social distancing will mean more back to work. There will still be more supply than in the Spring so the landlord who wont be flexible will be left with an empty property. I think the one or two property landlord will be more flexible. There is plenty scope to make up any losses for any landlord with a bit of initiative

Yeah Im trying to get the cream before everyone has the same idea

I think I have the market all to myself at the moment.
Should see the peach my brother got. Thats what put the idea into my head.

overkill602 · 14-04-2020 12:07pm

Dont be to bothered if they don't answer quickly they are probably to busy counting their money or sending arrears notices from their champagne filled baths

JimmyVik · 14-04-2020 12:46pm

Definitely most of them so far are for short term only.
Im not really interested in that.
Most of them seem to be ex student, but i suspect a few ex airbnbs in there too.

Im still researching

So far I have 2 that I would be interested in.
Still waiting to hear back from one of them after I replied to his initial email.

Edit:
Another load of calls later and im fast coming to the realization that most of these extra rentals on the market are empty student accommodation where the students have left and one or two ex airbnbs added into the mix too. Thats just from the ones i was able to get an answer from. Most of the emails ive got back so far are "sorry thats gone".

2 good leads so far though. Ive a few more to get back to me after an email.

JimmyVik · 15-04-2020 9:02am

I havent got the energy to go back at this again yet.
But I will later on and post back.

LuckyLloyd · 15-04-2020 11:25pm

AirBnB have acquired another 1Bn in capital, in the form of a syndicated term loan.That means they’ve now raised 2Bn within the last couple of weeks.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/airbnb-coronavirus-funding

Their bookings down 75pc in Europe in March (95pc in Asia; 50% in the US).

JamesMason · 15-04-2020 11:44pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

AirBnB have acquired another 1Bn in capital, in the form of a syndicated term loan.That means they’ve now raised 2Bn within the last couple of weeks.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/airbnb-coronavirus-funding

Their bookings down 75pc in Europe in March (95pc in Asia; 50% in the US).

Any figures for Ireland?

JustAThought · 16-04-2020 12:04am

I suspect many rent a room-ers whose flatmates return home will chose not to rent out for the next 6 or 8 months - driving tenants to have to take on proper linger term structured leases that may not suit their contracts or financial needs and drive up the prices of renting. Why would someone have a potential covid -19 carrier in their home when they can just hold and tighten their belt.

LuckyLloyd · 16-04-2020 8:44am

JamesMason wrote: »

Any figures for Ireland?

No, but bear in mind that is March where lockdown only took hold across the world as the month progressed. Some airport numbers to give you a flavour of what to expect in April:

- Dublin airport had less than 900 passengers pass through on Easter Monday. It would normally be 100k+ for that day each year
- 97,130 people passed through security checkpoints in US airports on Tuesday. A 95% reduction year on year and a level of throughput not seen since 1954

AirBnB (and Booking.com and whoever else) will see business resolve towards 0 for April.

Hubertj · 16-04-2020 10:30am

JamesMason wrote: »

Any figures for Ireland?

i would imagine the only people using Air BnB now would be to self isolate for whatever reason.
Not much craic to be had in Ireland at the moment...

16-04-2020 10:35am

runswithascript wrote: »

Shame on you. You are a major part of the property problem in our society.

I hope we will soon have a government here that will restrict or even better yet ban Airbnb completely, just like these places:

https://www.passiveairbnb.com/top-cities-and-countries-where-airbnb-is-illegal-or-restricted/

Are you campaigning to pay more taxes or reduce welfare spend to build social housing? As in you personally as opposed to "tax the rich"? Somehow I doubt it.

Idbatterim · 16-04-2020 4:30pm

one other potential factor, if people were renting in dublin, but have option of moving home, some may do that. If you get on with your parents etc and can move home. particularly if you have lost job etc, is there much point in renting etc, when socialising is off the cards for I would reckon at least 3/4 months any way?

WhiteMemento9 · 16-04-2020 10:51pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

one other potential factor, if people were renting in dublin, but have option of moving home, some may do that. If you get on with your parents etc and can move home. particularly if you have lost job etc, is there much point in renting etc, when socialising is off the cards for I would reckon at least 3/4 months any way?

If the WFH movement really takes off and companies are more inclined to allow remote working after this is all over it would give many more people the option of moving outside Dublin. Eiither way it is likely the ask from the government to companies for people who can work from home to do so will stay in place until we have a vacine which is a long ways off so I would say many are already thinking that way.

JimmyVik · 17-04-2020 8:33am

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

If the WFH movement really takes off and companies are more inclined to allow remote working after this is all over it would give many more people the option of moving outside Dublin. Eiither way it is likely the ask from the government to companies for people who can work from home to do so will stay in place until we have a vacine which is a long ways off so I would say many are already thinking that way.

The government should actually pass legislation that MAKES companies tell employees to work from home who are working from home at the moment until a vaccine or a cure presents itself. At least that would thin out the herd and only those who cannot under any circumstances work from home would be traveling or in the office. Basically if you can work from home now, it should be mandatory that you continue to work from home for the duration. Thin out the offices.

DubCount · 17-04-2020 8:56am

JimmyVik wrote: »

The government should actually pass legislation that MAKES companies tell employees to work from home who are working from home at the moment until a vaccine or a cure presents itself. At least that would thin out the herd and only those who cannot under any circumstances work from home would be traveling or in the office. Basically if you can work from home now, it should be mandatory that you continue to work from home for the duration. Thin out the offices.

There's enough compliance for WFH and no need for more big brother legislation.

JimmyVik · 17-04-2020 9:07am

DubCount wrote: »

There's enough compliance for WFH and no need for more big brother legislation.

Lot of companies going to insist their workers come into the office.

DubCount · 17-04-2020 9:30am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Lot of companies going to insist their workers come into the office.

Most companies will continue WFH if government just requests it to continue where possible. If an employee is told to go to an office by his/her employer, will they refuse? What if their presence is "essential" and they refuse? Who decides what "essential" is? Its not like we have a flood of un-necessary attendances at workplaces at the moment.

This reminds me of the outcry about holiday homes over Easter. There were probably some incidents where people did not comply, but it would only be a tiny minority and vastly overstated.

JimmyVik · 17-04-2020 9:37am

DubCount wrote: »

Most companies will continue WFH if government just requests it to continue where possible. If an employee is told to go to an office by his/her employer, will they refuse? What if their presence is "essential" and they refuse? Who decides what "essential" is? Its not like we have a flood of un-necessary attendances at workplaces at the moment.

This reminds me of the outcry about holiday homes over Easter. There were probably some incidents where people did not comply, but it would only be a tiny minority and vastly overstated.

The one I know for sure about is my company. They have decided they are not getting enough productivity working from home. Email came to say that the minute the 2km restrictions are lifted 50% of people are expected to come into the office each week on a week in week out basis. There are just over about 300 in the company. All can work from home, but the boss doesnt like it. He has done metrics and is sending them to show people need to work harder. Its his way, or he is being ordered from above too from our foreign leaders. Maybe they are right, maybe they are not. Unless they are made with an iron fist to leave people currently working from home then they will lift it at the first chance they get. I know they are not the only company thinking like this in Dublin. And as for the rest of the world ... Companies are over this Covid thing and will be very eager to get back to work. So are a lot of people. They just donb understand that they will just make it worse and have to suffer even more if they relax the lockdowns. Sorry thats off topic I know.

Dick Turnip · 17-04-2020 10:20am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Should see the peach my brother got. Thats what put the idea into my head.

Out of interest, where did your brother get a place? Was it an ex airbnb job?

Did he get much of a reduction on the asking price?

JimmyVik · 17-04-2020 10:38am

Dick Turnip wrote: »

Out of interest, where did your brother get a place? Was it an ex airbnb job?

Did he get much of a reduction on the asking price?

He was thinking of moving anyway so when he gave his notice he was a bit worried.
But his landlord was cool. He said he would probably sell anyway so he was happy enough for my brother to leave with short notice.

He reckons he was already on about €200 below market rent. New place was bigger, better, closer to city center and even €100 cheaper than the current cheap rent he was getting.

Hes very happy with it. I dont think it was ex airbnb. He told me the landlord said that was a couple in it before said nothing and just left, just did a runner back to their home country. Didnt even tell him, and phones just went dead, like they just disappeared. Place was in good condition though.

17-04-2020 1:26pm

Properties available for rent in central Dublin up 71% on comparable period last year

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0417/1132149-rent-sale-property-ireland/

JimmyVik · 17-04-2020 1:58pm

cisk wrote: »

Properties available for rent in central Dublin up 71% on comparable period last year

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0417/1132149-rent-sale-property-ireland/

Try getting one. Im tearing my hair trying to get one. Now I know one person who did get one so i thought it would be easier. Still trying though

Idbatterim · 17-04-2020 2:02pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

I posted this in another thread but it would be a good fit here.

Some musings over the weekend

I was thinking of buying maybe this year or next year.
Over the weekend especially i was giving my housing situation a huge amount of thought.

2 months ago, I had a nice job but was going to move to London to a new job before the summer. I was saving for a mortgage and living in a granny flat in my parents, but the mortgage idea was long term in case I got sick of London and moved home.

So now here I am.
New plan.
Im going to stay in my current job, which is safe enough, for the next year or so and ride out whats to come. Plans to buy are off the table. Plans to emigrate are off the table.
My brother recently took advantage of the lack of market and the cheap nice apartments that have come online in the last few weeks and we had a good chat yesterday.
I will do the same. Im going to start looking today for one of these good deals, before everyone else gets the idea. The plan will be to take one with a good rent and good location. Hopefully pay deposit and get a move in date of maybe start of June if I can. No point moving in sooner because this covid thing could run and run.

So i'll pay deposit now , but pay rent from June. Thats my plan. I'll post back how I got on. Maybe I wont get a deal like that, but i'll certainly give it a go.

cheap apartments? they are still expensive, better value than what they were though, yes...

JimmyVik · 17-04-2020 2:15pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

cheap apartments? they are still expensive, better value than what they were though, yes...

True that

Idbatterim · 17-04-2020 3:04pm

many were doing a **** commute and expense of car, before this disaster hit, you would wonder, will many think the quality of life is **** doing that and try and move back in to the city and avail of the temporarily cheaper rents and possibly ditch the car...

JimmyVik · 17-04-2020 3:06pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

many were doing a **** commute and expense of car, before this disaster hit, you would wonder, will many think the quality of life is **** doing that and try and move back in to the city and avail of the temporarily cheaper rents and possibly ditch the car...

That is exactly my plan

Idbatterim · 17-04-2020 3:13pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

That is exactly my plan

supply has now been frozen for months, in terms of building. If the english schools and colleges are back in business in september, for face to face classes, this could turn, very, very quickly! prices might even drop now for another 2-3 months , right in middle of summer as tourim will not be back in that time frame, but like I said, we cant all be out of work or work remotely , these restrictions will be lifted first (many of the work related one, construction for sure), then like I said, September is the return to education time, throw them in on the heap and the miniscule supply in the greater scheme of things, that has temporarily come on stream, will vanish very quickly I reckon.

Between 13 March and 16 April, there were 964 rental listings in central Dublin, compared to 563 last year.

thats from the RTE article, another few hundred units in a city of 1,500,000 in the greater area. the sites beings shut down, is stopping that amount of completions per week probably!

17-04-2020 3:31pm

Does anyone have any thoughts on the effect all this will have on student accommodation? Normally students would lease from September to May.
I assume Landlords are losing out on the short term summer rent so are offering a lower rate for a longer lease. Would a group of students be silly to accept an offer to lease a house for the whole year or should they wait and see what the market looks like later in the Summer?

Idbatterim · 17-04-2020 3:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone have any thoughts on the effect all this will have on student accommodation? Normally students would lease from September to May.
I assume Landlords are losing out on the short term summer rent so are offering a lower rate for a longer lease. Would a group of students be silly to accept an offer to lease a house for the whole year or should they wait and see what the market looks like later in the Summer?

and what if college not back in september? I would be doing nothing now and the drops in prices are nowhere near enough, where I would consider that gamble...

Idbatterim · 17-04-2020 3:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone have any thoughts on the effect all this will have on student accommodation? Normally students would lease from September to May.
I assume Landlords are losing out on the short term summer rent so are offering a lower rate for a longer lease. Would a group of students be silly to accept an offer to lease a house for the whole year or should they wait and see what the market looks like later in the Summer?

sorry, is this a hypotehtical or is this something that has been offered to you?

JustAThought · 17-04-2020 4:47pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

The government should actually pass legislation that MAKES companies tell employees to work from home who are working from home at the moment until a vaccine or a cure presents itself. At least that would thin out the herd and only those who cannot under any circumstances work from home would be traveling or in the office. Basically if you can work from home now, it should be mandatory that you continue to work from home for the duration. Thin out the offices.

So in the ultimate home goal where arguments against people using their private houses for personal gain via renting out rooms to airbnb for profit, which people were shieking to ban on the grounds that it was outside the remit of their planning permission - now we want the government to force landlords to allow people renting to run their commercial enterprises and businesses from private homes?

Inoperable without huge challenges in court.

Also not all houses are suitable for office work - particularly in share situations. Not to mention the mental health damage to running your companys business from a bench at the end of your bed or being expected to shiver in cold all day or run up a massive gas/lx bill for the additional 200-250 hours heat and light per month this would entail.

Claw Hammer · 17-04-2020 5:04pm

JustAThought wrote: »

So in the ultimate home goal where arguments against people using their private houses for personal gain via renting out rooms to airbnb for profit, which people were shieking to ban on the grounds that it was outside the remit of their planning permission - now we want the government to force landlords to allow people renting to run their commercial enterprises and businesses from private homes?

Inoperable without huge challenges in court.

Also not all houses are suitable for office work - particularly in share situations. Not to mention the mental health damage to running your companys business from a bench at the end of your bed or being expected to shiver in cold all day or run up a massive gas/lx bill for the additional 200-250 hours heat and light per month this would entail.

Not correct. The planning issue was with renting out entire housing units on short stay. There has never been a planning issue with people renting out rooms in their own homes on AirBnb.
There have been a few court cases where people have been operating a business form home and as long as the dominant use of the property is residential having a workspace is regarded as incidental. As a judge said i one case "if I put my briefcase on my dining room table, that does not that turn my home into an office building".

The main legal issue with WFH is Health and Safety. The employer is still liable for a safe workplace even if it is the employees home. there are also Data Protection issues.

Dublin - Significant reduction in rents coming?

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