Let's all talk about Lewis?

chopperbyrne · 09-08-2020 5:05pm

He'll be the Bill Russell of F1.

Most successful, and in the discussion for GOAT, but most will say other drivers were better than him.

Killinator · 10-08-2020 7:47am

2011 wrote: »

Well for a start he doesn’t accuse other drivers of cheating when they beat him fair and square. I would think that this gives Leclerc an edge of Hamilton that enables to objectively analyze what is making him slower and build on that.

So essentially he's a sore loser, same as the rest of them. Verstappen was all happy chat on the radio yesterday, but is happy to moan and bitch when things aren't going as well, same with Leclerc, perfectly happy to complain on the radio. Basically all drivers

Still if that's what you consider proves Leclerc is a better driver then we are way apart on our thinking about what makes a good driver

10-08-2020 9:05am

Killinator wrote: »

So essentially he's a sore loser, same as the rest of them.

I accept that they can all moan but this is quite different from accusations of cheating.

Killinator · 10-08-2020 9:56am

2011 wrote: »

I accept that they can all moan but this is quite different from accusations of cheating.

I can see it from his point of view in a way as Max was nowhere and wasn't a threat until race day and there was such a massive difference in Tyre wear.
That said it was over the top.

It is however no indication of his quality as a driver over or below Leclerc

10-08-2020 5:32pm

Killinator wrote: »

I can see it from his point of view in a way as Max was nowhere and wasn't a threat until race day and there was such a massive difference in Tyre wear.
That said it was over the top.

It is however no indication of his quality as a driver over or below Leclerc

Max was not “nowhere”. He qualified in P4 and passed Hulk immediately. This put him one place behind Hamilton well before the end of the first lap. All this occurred before tyre wear could become a factor.

Look I accept that Hamilton is a very good driver and certainly in a different league to Bottas. What impressed me most was how he beat Alonso in the same car when he was a rookie, his consistency and hunger to win. However on the flip side Rosberg beat him in the same car, he has never had the opportunity to prove himself in a far inferior car and in my view he is a bad looser. For these reasons I would not hold him in the same regard as Schumacher, Senna etc.

Killinator · 10-08-2020 5:50pm

2011 wrote: »

Max was not “nowhere”. He qualified in P4 and passed Hulk immediately. This put him one place behind Hamilton well before the end of the first lap. All this occurred before tyre wear could become a factor.

Look I accept that Hamilton is a very good driver and certainly in a different league to Bottas. What impressed me most was how he beat Alonso in the same car when he was a rookie, his consistency and hunger to win. However on the flip side Rosberg beat him in the same car, he has never had the opportunity to prove himself in a far inferior car and in my view he is a bad looser. For these reasons I would not hold him in the same regard as Schumacher, Senna etc.

Sorry, re Max being nowhere, I meant more that he was not anywhere near the Mercs pace previously and nobody expected the Red Bull to pass the Merc on track via race pace. I didn't word that well.

You have your reasons fair enough but it's not Hamilton's fault he's not been in a bad car.
Once a driver makes it to the top it's unreasonable to expect them to drop down to a lower level just to prove themselves. And he wasn't gonna turn down Merc or McLaren to drive for a back of the grid team just to prove himself.

He is a bad loser but so we're Senna and Schumacher, big time and they were more than a little unsporting in their time and happy to hit other cars if it improved their prospects.

To put it in another way, Messi is regarded as one of the the greatest footballers of all time and arguably the greatest. No one is expecting him to prove himself with Stoke or Real Betis despite him starting his career with a great team and never having played for a poor team. He plays for a team that has had a huge budget, the best players around him and plays in a league where only 2 other teams put up a real challenge most of the time. None of that matters though. Some people are just great and personally although I don't rank him as the best I think Hamilton will be looked at alot more favourably in the future, just like Schumi is today

10-08-2020 7:01pm

Killinator wrote: »

Sorry, re Max being nowhere, I meant more that he was not anywhere near the Mercs pace previously and nobody expected the Red Bull to pass the Merc on track via race pace.

Agreed, but Hamilton made the accusation at a time that he knew the following:
1) Max was one place behind him before the end of lap 1.
2) Max started the race with a tyre advantage over the Mercs
3) Red Bull was not as hard on tyres are the Mercs.

Armed with that information is was more than disappointing that Hamilton choose to suggest that Red Bull were cheats.

You have your reasons fair enough but it's not Hamilton's fault he's not been in a bad car.

Agreed but I did acknowledge that he impressed me in a Merc against Alonso as a rookie. Also you have to accept that a driver goes up in people's estimation when they win a race in an inferior car as Max demonstrated more than once. I don’t expect him to get into a low ranking team just to prove how good he is but regardless the fact remains that he has only driven for two top teams.

He is a bad loser but so we're Senna and Schumacher, big time and they were more than a little unsporting in their time and happy to hit other cars if it improved their prospects.

But the difference is they had demonstrated their raw talent in inferior cars repeatedly.

I don't think the Messi analogy works very well as the car is such a determining factor, but I understand your point.

I believe that if you put Max and Hamilton in the same car Max would come out on top by a large margin. Also interesting when Max was asked to comment on Hulk qualifying in front of him. No excuses from Max, he simply said that he was delighted for Hulk and that he deserved a seat in F1.

Gaoth Laidir · 11-08-2020 10:19pm

Lewis' attitude in the press conference after qualifying last Saturday told a lot about his character. Short, sharp answers, almost to the point of absolutely not wanting to be there. All because he was beaten to pole by Valtteri. Spoilt kid and prams... He's great at the answers when it goes his way but if not he's the world's sorest loser. And don't give me that "but all great champions are like that". They're not. Humble in winning, gracious in defeat. That's the mark of a professional. Valtteri has that in spades, and he's had his fair share of bad luck to be bitter about.

The only sportsperson I hate more than Lewis for his attitude is Ronnie O'Sullivan, but there's not much in it.

I certainly think that 90% of success is due to the car, with the driver making up the rest. With more of a selfish streak in him Valtteri could balance the books more against Lewis, but if you were to put any of the top 4 or 5 drivers in a Merc and swap out Lewis the Merc would still win more times than not and Lewis would not be leading the wdc.

swarlb · 12-08-2020 12:07am

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Lewis' attitude in the press conference after qualifying last Saturday told a lot about his character. Short, sharp answers, almost to the point of absolutely not wanting to be there. All because he was beaten to pole by Valtteri. Spoilt kid and prams... He's great at the answers when it goes his way but if not he's the world's sorest loser. And don't give me that "but all great champions are like that". They're not. Humble in winning, gracious in defeat. That's the mark of a professional. Valtteri has that in spades, and he's had his fair share of bad luck to be bitter about.

The only sportsperson I hate more than Lewis for his attitude is Ronnie O'Sullivan, but there's not much in it.

I certainly think that 90% of success is due to the car, with the driver making up the rest. With more of a selfish streak in him Valtteri could balance the books more against Lewis, but if you were to put any of the top 4 or 5 drivers in a Merc and swap out Lewis the Merc would still win more times than not and Lewis would not be leading the wdc.

I think you said it all there in that one sentence...
'The only sportsperson I 'hate' more than Lewis....

Would you 'like' him more if , lets say, he was like Bottas, and simply won the odd race here and there, finished second or third more often than not, and reasonably pleasant most of the time.

I think the problem most people seem to have with Lewis is...

He wins too much, so they don't like him....
He has an 'attitude' , tattoos, hair more suited to a rapper than an F1 driver,
He thinks he's 'great'....as in.... Woulda look at yer man, the state of him, he thinks he's effin' great !
He'll never be as good as.... (insert favourite F1 driver here)
Rosberg bet him, in the same car.... so he must really be crap...
The car does all the winning, he only puts in about 10%.... shure ANYONE could drive one of them yolks...
Put ANY other driver in that Merc and they'd be winning multiple c'ships (curious as to how Rosberg only won the one ?)

I know this is completely un related but I saw a posting on here, where it mentioned that Roy Keane was Irelands greatest sportsperson EVER, and the most influential. Not really knowing much about football, I would have assumed that footballers might (and before the keyboard football warriors pounce, I said MIGHT) be judged on how many goals they score... so I was surprised to find that Keane scored only 9 (and is joint 15th on a list) while that other Keane, Robbie, scored a very respectable 68, and by International standards that is quite respectable.
But then again Keane (Robbie) is not as 'edgy' as Keane (Roy)....

I've been following F1 since the Stewart era, and because of that he will always be my favourite driver.
I like Hamilton to a degree, simply because I like people breaking records, like Eddy Merckx at cycling, or Carl Lewis or Usian Bolt.
But the main reason I like him is because for a brief period I lived in Stevenage, and one thing I can tell you is, unlike where Rosberg grew up, it's far from Monaco.
Fair play to him I say, let him have his tantrums, wins and losses. In a couple of years he'll be gone, and there'll be someone else out there to moan about.

Gaoth Laidir · 12-08-2020 7:39am

So you like him because you briefly lived in Stevenage? Well that's original, I'll give you that. If you had lived in Chigwell would you therefore like Ronnie too?

Yes, I don't like him for his attitude, his hypocrisy, poor loser and lack of respect for other drivers in the recent BLM soapbox nonsense. Not all drivers could perform like he does in a Merc, but certainly Max and Charles could, and Alonso and Vettel in their day. I think you could now add Russel to the list too.

Roy Keane was/is a dick, but did have a footballing brain that needs to be measured in more ways than purely goals scored. Oliver Kahn, who I believe is one of the best keepers ever, didn't score many goals either.

swarlb · 12-08-2020 4:42pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

So you like him because you briefly lived in Stevenage? Well that's original, I'll give you that. If you had lived in Chigwell would you therefore like Ronnie too?

Yes, I don't like him for his attitude, his hypocrisy, poor loser and lack of respect for other drivers in the recent BLM soapbox nonsense. Not all drivers could perform like he does in a Merc, but certainly Max and Charles could, and Alonso and Vettel in their day. I think you could now add Russel to the list too.

Roy Keane was/is a dick, but did have a footballing brain that needs to be measured in more ways than purely goals scored. Oliver Kahn, who I believe is one of the best keepers ever, didn't score many goals either.

Ok, lets just leave things as they are, you don't like Lewis, I have an admiring respect for him.
If you don't understand why I mentioned where he was from... well, you'll not see too many F1 drivers from Finglas, who's fathers were bus drivers.
I've no idea who Oliver Kahn is, where he's from or who he played for, but using the analogy that a goalkeeper doesn't score many goals in the context of Roy Keane not score that many, is simply idiotic.

My basic point was, considering how expensive motorsport is, even at a Mondello level, you don't see too many World Champions coming from council estates !

Gaoth Laidir · 12-08-2020 8:06pm

swarlb wrote: »

Ok, lets just leave things as they are, you don't like Lewis, I have an admiring respect for him.
If you don't understand why I mentioned where he was from... well, you'll not see too many F1 drivers from Finglas, who's fathers were bus drivers.
I've no idea who Oliver Kahn is, where he's from or who he played for, but using the analogy that a goalkeeper doesn't score many goals in the context of Roy Keane not score that many, is simply idiotic.

My basic point was, considering how expensive motorsport is, even at a Mondello level, you don't see too many World Champions coming from council estates !

Strange, then, that he continually barks about BLM, racism and discrimination in sport when he himself is proof that anyone can make it to the top, regardless of their background. But I'm not sure why you put so much stock in his roots when we're talking about him now (at the top and living in Monaco, not that that makes any difference either).

Oliver Kahn was the Bayern and German national goalkeeper for years and years. My point was that a footballer's legacy is not down to how many goals he scored because there's so much more to football than that.

rock22 · 13-08-2020 7:43am

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Strange, then, that he continually barks about BLM, racism and discrimination in sport when he himself is proof that anyone can make it to the top, regardless of their background...

Lewis is the only Black driver in F1 .
Historically , I can think of no other black driver

So no, one black person amongst all the thousands involved in the sport does not prove anyone can make it.
If you cannot see that then that is exactly why Lewis feels the need to make the point about lack of diversity.

And i too find his bad loser attitude hard to take at times but that does not distract from the need to speak out .

rock22 · 14-08-2020 7:54am

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Not technically true, there was a black driver (William Theodore Ribbs Jr) who did a test back in the 80's. Was highly regarded too by a number of people. Won quite a bit in other series.

He did a (failed) test for bernie Eclestone once. He was never a member of a team or drove in a f1 race for any team.

But even if there were two black drivers do you think this negates the argument about blm or about diversity in the sport?

Gaoth Laidir · 14-08-2020 8:14am

What I don't get about this BLM/discrimination in F1 is can it be shown that black drivers have not been given a.seat because of their colour? Lewis would have you believe so. Where are all these black Karting kids who hit a brick wall once they get to a certain level? If Lewis can show examples of this then people may take him more seriously.

On a similar argument, it could equally be argued that the 100-metre sprint racing discriminates against white people as it's overwhelmgly dominated by blacks. This would, of course, require you to ignore the obvious reason (physical difference between slow and fast-twitch muscles), but I'm still surprised we don't get Usain Bolt calling for more whites taking part.

donspeekinglesh · 14-08-2020 12:23pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Not technically true, there was a black driver (William Theodore Ribbs Jr) who did a test back in the 80's. Was highly regarded too by a number of people. Won quite a bit in other series.

There's a film called Uppity on Netflix about him. He was brilliant, but had plenty of attitude, which from a black guy rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way.

Paul Newman was a fan and helped him out.

Charlie-Bravo · 14-08-2020 1:25pm

Uppity is a good watch. Great insight into the situation.

Joeface · 14-08-2020 10:28pm

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

There's a film called Uppity on Netflix about him. He was brilliant, but had plenty of attitude, which from a black guy rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way.

Paul Newman was a fan and helped him out.

Just watched that ..cheers for the Tip , enjoyed that .

The Royal Scam · 04-09-2020 10:16am

I wonder what bandwagon Lewis will jump on this weekend. I am sick of all the media attention being about him all of the time. It is funny, the driver with the least amount of personality getting all of the attention.

recyclebin · 04-09-2020 1:44pm

The Royal Scam wrote: »

I wonder what bandwagon Lewis will jump on this weekend. I am sick of all the media attention being about him all of the time. It is funny, the driver with the least amount of personality getting all of the attention.

The winner getting all the attention! Wow that's ground breaking......

Man with broke phone · 11-09-2020 8:32pm

Lewis is in the dailymail today on a date.

Whats wrong with that.

50 pictures. All branded clothing. His blonde assistant is there the whole time in between them making sure they have the brands on and visible and pictures managed right with him showing his dog.

They are on a super yacht then a helicoptor but he sold his private jet because he is an eco warrior selling electric mercedes last week telling all his followers about how he is serious about the environment. While driving race cars around the world with race car cities following them.

HE was serious about BLM the month before selling designer goods to the youth with his rebelious ways until they asked him to miss a race to show support. He moved on from that cause. Didnt see how that benifits anyone.

What struck me about these pictures though was that him and the instagram model girl who seems to have turned up out of nowhere were not pictured within a metre or two of each other with the PR girl who carries his scooter and bag of swag on race day in between them at all times.

A real life parody of commercialism, a manufactured race car driver. Id love to know what he is really into. He probably doesnt know himself anymore. 4 or 5 developement managers probably tell him how to feel each morning.

Gaoth Laidir · 11-09-2020 8:59pm

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Lewis is in the dailymail today on a date.

Whats wrong with that.

50 pictures. All branded clothing. His blonde assistant is there the whole time in between them making sure they have the brands on and visible and pictures managed right with him showing his dog.

They are on a super yacht then a helicoptor but he sold his private jet because he is an eco warrior selling electric mercedes last week telling all his followers about how he is serious about the environment. While driving race cars around the world with race car cities following them.

HE was serious about BLM the month before selling designer goods to the youth with his rebelious ways until they asked him to miss a race to show support. He moved on from that cause. Didnt see how that benifits anyone.

What struck me about these pictures though was that him and the instagram model girl who seems to have turned up out of nowhere were not pictured within a metre or two of each other with the PR girl who carries his scooter and bag of swag on race day in between them at all times.

A real life parody of commercialism, a manufactured race car driver. Id love to know what he is really into. He probably doesnt know himself anymore. 4 or 5 developement managers probably tell him how to feel each morning.

This Xtreme-E thing seems to be a bit of a farce. It's all about promoting sustainability, protecting the planet, bla bla, yet in the process they are unnecessarily traveling all over the world: Senegal -> Saudi Arabia -> Nepal -> Greenland -> Brazil. The estimate the championship will generate 20,000 tonnes of caron footprint but they aim to be carbon-neutral overall. Exactly how that works is a puzzle. At the moment those 20,000 tonnes are not being produced. It's the same logic as putting a toll on a road and claiming the toll is to pay for the staff that collect the toll...

afatbollix · 12-09-2020 10:00am

The extreme E has bought a boat that will travel at 8 knots to get around as it is more effecent, They are going to use hydrogin to power the generators needed on site and all TV production will be done in London saving on sending a full crew to on site.

They aim to show what the issues are in the areas around the world.

F1 produces 250,000 tones of carbon, Sounds like F1 can learn a thing or two from extreme E.

Dammed if you do dammed if you don't.

AMKC · 12-09-2020 11:37am

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Lewis is in the dailymail today on a date.

Whats wrong with that.

50 pictures. All branded clothing. His blonde assistant is there the whole time in between them making sure they have the brands on and visible and pictures managed right with him showing his dog.

They are on a super yacht then a helicoptor but he sold his private jet because he is an eco warrior selling electric mercedes last week telling all his followers about how he is serious about the environment. While driving race cars around the world with race car cities following them.

HE was serious about BLM the month before selling designer goods to the youth with his rebelious ways until they asked him to miss a race to show support. He moved on from that cause. Didnt see how that benifits anyone.

What struck me about these pictures though was that him and the instagram model girl who seems to have turned up out of nowhere were not pictured within a metre or two of each other with the PR girl who carries his scooter and bag of swag on race day in between them at all times.

A real life parody of commercialism, a manufactured race car driver. Id love to know what he is really into. He probably doesnt know himself anymore. 4 or 5 developement managers probably tell him how to feel each morning.

Sounds like a horrible way to live. He has virtually no free time to himself so. Feck that. Does he even get to sit down snd play a computer or watch some T.V by himself. I do not envey him in the slightest. Who is the blonde one he was dating?

Man with broke phone · 12-09-2020 12:22pm

AMKC wrote: »

Sounds like a horrible way to live. He has virtually no free time to himself so. Feck that. Does he even get to sit down snd play a computer or watch some T.V by himself. I do not envey him in the slightest. Who is the blonde one he was dating?

Nah he was "dating" a brunette who the papers were calling a nicole sherzinger lookalike.

The blond is the girl who runs up to him after every race and he whispers something hilarious to, then she puts branded stuff on him and runs beside him. Carries his scooter too.

Rodney Bathgate · 12-09-2020 12:27pm

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Nah he was "dating" a brunette who the papers were calling a nicole sherzinger lookalike.

The blond is the girl who runs up to him after every race and he whispers something hilarious to, then she puts branded stuff on him and runs beside him. Carries his scooter too.

I thought he was dating that model with the skin condition?

Man with broke phone · 12-09-2020 12:32pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

I thought he was dating that model with the skin condition?

Nah she is famous now, doesnt need to pay for staged papparazzi shots with lonely Luis to raise her profile.

recyclebin · 12-09-2020 1:10pm

The 'blonde' is his personal trainer/physio. Maybe stick to a more reputable source for your news feed.

Having said that, it does look like he's flying around the place in helicopter which is hardly very green.

Man with broke phone · 12-09-2020 1:19pm

recyclebin wrote: »

The 'blonde' is his personal trainer/physio. Maybe stick to a more reputable source for your news feed.

Having said that, it does look like he's flying around the place in helicopter which is hardly very green.

So his personal trainer and physio hands him hats and watches after he gets out of the car and jogs beside him holding his scooter while he is crying to the stewards and accompanies him on papparazzi dates?

Reliable source indeed.

Rodney Bathgate · 12-09-2020 1:24pm

Man with broke phone wrote: »

So his personal trainer and physio hands him hats and watches after he gets out of the car and jogs beside him holding his scooter while he is crying to the stewards and accompanies him on papparazzi dates?

Reliable source indeed.

That footage was hilarious. Commentator thought he was going for a toilet break, but no he was going crying to the stewards.

Let's all talk about Lewis?

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