ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

malinheader · 15-02-2019 11:49am

spurious wrote: »

I really hope I am never held to task over decisions I made when I was 15.

Some difference in traveling hundreds of miles to join ISIS than caught smoking or taking a drink.

goat2 · 15-02-2019 11:51am

She says , she does not regret it, and was not fazed by the sight of a beheaded head in a bin,
this is the part that I don't understand,
And if she does get back to UK , will she then want to fight to have her husband that is supposed to be in jail brought into the UK
I just think, UK may not be safe with them in it

Plumbthedepths · 15-02-2019 11:51am

ollkiller wrote:

Whatever your views on her coming back to England it's sad to see the various posters who have just said to either shoot her or kill her. In the article it says she is 9 months pregnant. If you are down with shooting a person who is 9 months pregnant you are no better than the Isis scum that you claim to hate.

Isn't she a convert to ISIS ideology? So it seems that it is logical for those that hate ISIS to also hate her. As for the child do you think if it survives she will raise it in an environment of tolerance and acceptance of the beliefs and customs of others?

Wanderer78 · 15-02-2019 11:51am

malinheader wrote:

Some difference in traveling hundreds of miles to join ISIS than caught smoking or taking a drink.

The teenage mind isn't exactly the wisest of minds

malinheader · 15-02-2019 11:52am

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Nice to see The Guardian has its finger on the pulse of public feeling...as usual

Shamima Begum is just a teenager. Britain should be strong enough to take her back

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/14/shamima-begum-britain-isis-recruit

Shamima Begum was groomed. She deserves the chance of rehabilitation

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/14/shamima-begum-grooming-islamic-state-pregnant-uk

I wonder are these headlines for the good of diversity.

Ulysses Gaze · 15-02-2019 11:53am

malinheader wrote: »

I wonder are these headlines for the good of diversity.

No comments open either because 99% would disagree with the articles.

Plumbthedepths · 15-02-2019 11:53am

spurious wrote:

I really hope I am never held to task over decisions I made when I was 15.

Did you join a known terrorist organisation at 15?

malinheader · 15-02-2019 11:55am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The teenage mind isn't exactly the wisest of minds

Her mind seems pretty wise now in her interview. That's what worries me.

Plumbthedepths · 15-02-2019 11:57am

Sky carried out a poll among the public as to whether she should be allowed back to the UK. 76 per cent said No, 16 per cent said Yes and 8 per cent didn't know. There will be no appetite in the UK to let a known terrorist back in to the country.

chrissb8 · 15-02-2019 11:58am

I'm only speaking for myself. But if I was in a place where they were cutting heads off and doing unspeakable things to people there is no "grooming" or no "brainwashing" at 15 that would convince me this was right. She's clearly just a terrible human being and for the babies sake they should take it off her and then let it be known to her she is not having that child to raise based on the fact that 2 of her babies have died before, and she believes in an extreme inhumane cause.

malinheader · 15-02-2019 11:59am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Sky carried out a poll among the public as to whether she should be allowed back to the UK. 76 per cent said No, 16 per cent said Yes and 8 per cent didn't know. There will be no appetite in the UK to let a known terrorist back in to the country.

Sadly the public are not listend to most of the time.

bucketybuck · 15-02-2019 11:59am

spurious wrote: »

I really hope I am never held to task over decisions I made when I was 15.

If you were an active terrorist when you were 15, then I sincerely hope that you are.

Plumbthedepths · 15-02-2019 12:01pm

malinheader wrote:

Sadly the public are not listend to most of the time.

The UK foreign minister seems to be according to the news earlier.

FTA69 · 15-02-2019 12:02pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Nice to see The Guardian has its finger on the pulse of public feeling...as usual

Shamima Begum is just a teenager. Britain should be strong enough to take her back

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/14/shamima-begum-britain-isis-recruit

Shamima Begum was groomed. She deserves the chance of rehabilitation

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/14/shamima-begum-grooming-islamic-state-pregnant-uk

I know the author of the second one, he’s a pain in the arse.

ohnonotgmail · 15-02-2019 12:04pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The UK foreign minister seems to be according to the news earlier.

Javid is the Home Secretary.

FTA69 · 15-02-2019 12:05pm

On a serious note, I do believe she should be taken back. For the only reason that the Kurdish people have sacrificed so much to defeat ISIS, they’re correctly demanding to know why they now have to look after hundreds upon hundreds of foreign radical idiots that are the responsibility of the state they’re from.

That having been said, she should be taken from plane to cell and left there for a long time until we can be absolutely sure that she’s not a threat to anyone.

Sudden Valley · 15-02-2019 12:06pm

If the baby is a British Citizen i think she should be let back just to protect the child. She should get jail time.

Larbre34 · 15-02-2019 12:07pm

I can understand the feelings of all Brits who say don't let her back in, I feel the same about any Irish citizens or residents who decided to join a death cult whose core mission appears to be to counter western values with terror, coercion and fascist authority.

They'd be mad, however, not to plan for some of these folk actually making it back anyway and have arrangements in place for detention and trials.

I'd rather know where the likes of her are rather than not.

Fiftyfilthy · 15-02-2019 12:13pm

Left where they are or get wiped out back in the uk

spurious · 15-02-2019 12:17pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Did you join a known terrorist organisation at 15?

We had plenty of our own here when I was fifteen. I could have. Of course now, many here would probably elect me as a TD if I had.

malinheader · 15-02-2019 12:21pm

FTA69 wrote: »

On a serious note, I do believe she should be taken back. For the only reason that the Kurdish people have sacrificed so much to defeat ISIS, they’re correctly demanding to know why they now have to look after hundreds upon hundreds of foreign radical idiots that are the responsibility of the state they’re from.

That having been said, she should be taken from plane to cell and left there for a long time until we can be absolutely sure that she’s not a threat to anyone.

My fear is what mindset does the child have when he or she reaches 18 or so .His mother in jail all or most of his life.
Keeping her in a cell until no longer a danger. How long is a piece of string. I don't think you can stop these kind being a threat.
I think the Kurdish people should do with foreign radicals as they want to without any interference from other countries.

malinheader · 15-02-2019 12:24pm

spurious wrote: »

We had plenty of our own here when I was fifteen. I could have. Of course now, many here would probably elect me as a TD if I had.

I was just wondering how long it would be before we started on ourselves. Catholic church, priests and nuns to come yet.

Feisar · 15-02-2019 12:29pm

FTA69 wrote: »

On a serious note, I do believe she should be taken back. For the only reason that the Kurdish people have sacrificed so much to defeat ISIS, they’re correctly demanding to know why they now have to look after hundreds upon hundreds of foreign radical idiots that are the responsibility of the state they’re from.

That having been said, she should be taken from plane to cell and left there for a long time until we can be absolutely sure that she’s not a threat to anyone.

Surely they could spare a few bullets for these clowns.

Gimme A Pound · 15-02-2019 12:31pm

The "she was 15 and stupid" points are moot because she still believes in her cause.

I would agree with giving her another chance if she realised the error of her ways but she's still a fanatic.

bucketybuck · 15-02-2019 12:35pm

Antonella Unsightly Snowflake wrote: »

The "she was 15 and stupid" points are moot because she still believes in her cause.

They are also insulting and patronising to the billions of 15 year olds who know full the difference between right and wrong.

inforfun · 15-02-2019 12:39pm

spurious wrote: »

I really hope I am never held to task over decisions I made when I was 15.

It is not that she skipped class age 15 or something like that.
But ok, she was 15.
How about the interview she gave now she is 19?

Gimme A Pound · 15-02-2019 12:46pm

Yeah I don't see what the point of that argument is. No denying that lots of people do stupid sh1t at 15 (/points vigorously at self) but crikey... there's a scale!

ToBeFrank123 · 15-02-2019 12:59pm

People can't just be allowed to slip in and out of the heart of terrorist regimes as they see fit. What deterrent would it be to those who would join another ISIS type group in the future if they were accepted back easily?

Most of these people left with the understanding they would never be coming back and also with the understanding they despised Western culture and indeed all modern conveniences. And after a couple of years living in as close to the stone age as you can get, they come back looking for a bed in a modern hospital.

Its time for some people to decide once and for all if they want to live in the stone age or the modern age with everything it entails.

Guy:Incognito · 15-02-2019 1:11pm

FTA69 wrote: »

On a serious note, I do believe she should be taken back. For the only reason that the Kurdish people have sacrificed so much to defeat ISIS, they’re correctly demanding to know why they now have to look after hundreds upon hundreds of foreign radical idiots that are the responsibility of the state they’re from.

e.

Probably for the same reason any country has to "look after " foreign scumbags that come and break laws there.

They're free to use whatever laws they set to deal with them, from the death penalty down to deportation.

Guy:Incognito · 15-02-2019 1:12pm

spurious wrote: »

We had plenty of our own here when I was fifteen. I could have. Of course now, many here would probably elect me as a TD if I had.

If you had joined the IRA at 15 and bombed somewhere, do you think you shouldnt be held accountable so?

Quick tussle of the hair and told to go be a good boy you little scamp?

Very rarely see anyone saying dont hold gangs of little scumbags accountable when theres trouble outside their front doors. Then it's all "lock the little ***** up, fine the parents etc "

Gimme A Pound · 15-02-2019 1:15pm

During the Northern Ireland conflict, there certainly weren't concessions made to those who joined the IRA, even if only 15 when joining.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-02-2019 1:19pm

spurious wrote: »

We had plenty of our own here when I was fifteen. I could have. Of course now, many here would probably elect me as a TD if I had.

The ultimate in whataboutary. Anyway this isn’t akin to that, it’s like an Irish fifteen year old joining the Shankill butchers and then popping back to the republic for a forevah house and some hugs.

Wouldn’t get elected in those circumstances.

ollkiller · 15-02-2019 1:21pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Isn't she a convert to ISIS ideology? So it seems that it is logical for those that hate ISIS to also hate her. As for the child do you think if it survives she will raise it in an environment of tolerance and acceptance of the beliefs and customs of others?

Never said anything about anyone hating her. I made the point that other posters had said to kill her, even though she is 9 months pregnant.

If she had the child over there of course it would not be a great environment for the child. But i still would like to give the child a chance, it's not their fault who their parents are.

Mint Sauce · 15-02-2019 1:24pm

Heavly pregnant, last two kids died, I can understand why she might want to come back :rolleyes:

So let her back, give birth, let the baby get the help he/she needs. Her, lock her up for treason, or send her back with GB Citizenship revoked to what ever hellhole she left.

She gave up her right to be British, the moment she joined IS.

Gimme A Pound · 15-02-2019 1:25pm

Yeah, saying "kill her" is utterly stupid - and I'd put money on it that some of those saying it are anti abortion.

The baby's welfare is a mitigating factor all right. I'd have no issue with her having the baby in the UK, leaving the baby to live with their grandparents, and leaving again. Her two other children died - crikey.

wakka12 · 15-02-2019 1:27pm

dilallio wrote: »

What sort of life did these three 15 year old girls have in London, to believe that moving to a war zone and marrying soldiers they had never met would bring fulfillment?

Its nothing to do with London being bad or their upbringing necessarily being bad either. Cults and other strange psycho groups are always filled with bored teenagers and young people looking for a place to feel like they belong and can usually be easily manipulated

Giveaway · 15-02-2019 1:37pm

Antonella Unsightly Snowflake wrote: »

Yeah, saying "kill her" is utterly stupid - and I'd put money on it that some of those saying it are anti abortion.

The baby's welfare is a mitigating factor all right. I'd have no issue with her having the baby in the UK, leaving the baby to live with their grandparents, and leaving again. Her two other children died - crikey.

Her parents raised her and the dad definately is linked to islamists

SoundsRight · 15-02-2019 1:37pm

I understand the desire to see this girl suffer. But we must be better than that. She wants to live in a western, Christian society. That's an admission that their Islamic fantasy is a failure.

Panthro · 15-02-2019 1:42pm

Ball sack.
Not only had the kahunas to run off and join a terrorist group, she has showed zero remorse for her actions.
Bed made, lie in it.
Lunatic.

Deebles McBeebles · 15-02-2019 1:45pm

SoundsRight wrote: »

I understand the desire to see this girl suffer. But we must be better than that. She wants to live in a western, Christian society. That's an admission that their Islamic fantasy is a failure.

Is it though? Or is it just a stupid little girl realising she f*cked up big time and its already cost her 2 kids.

She went over there wilfully and married a "soldier". From what she said about the head she saw in the bin I don't think the Western world is for her. Unless she's locked up.

Feisar · 15-02-2019 1:49pm

Antonella Unsightly Snowflake wrote: »

Yeah, saying "kill her" is utterly stupid - and I'd put money on it that some of those saying it are anti abortion.

The baby's welfare is a mitigating factor all right. I'd have no issue with her having the baby in the UK, leaving the baby to live with their grandparents, and leaving again. Her two other children died - crikey.

There's a war going on, on this planet. She's on the other side. Nothing else should come into it.

Grayson · 15-02-2019 1:57pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Is it though? Or is it just a stupid little girl realising she f*cked up big time and its already cost her 2 kids.

She went over there wilfully and married a "soldier". From what she said about the head she saw in the bin I don't think the Western world is for her. Unless she's locked up.

The other way of looking at it that she was groomed by a cult and lived in a cult for a number of years.
And that's what ISIS are, a death cult.
The groomed her and convinced her to move over there.

I think she should be allowed return to the UK. She's a UK citizen and the government should never refuse a citizen the ability to return. That doesn't mean that she couldn't be charged with stuff when she gets back, or that she shouldn't be monitored.

bucketybuck · 15-02-2019 2:02pm

SoundsRight wrote: »

I understand the desire to see this girl suffer. But we must be better than that. She wants to live in a western, Christian society. That's an admission that their Islamic fantasy is a failure.

Not necessarily. More likely that because she doesn't respect western society she would be happy to take advantage of it without any moral qualms.

Giveaway · 15-02-2019 2:02pm

Grayson wrote: »

The other way of looking at it that she was groomed by a cult and lived in a cult for a number of years.
And that's what ISIS are, a death cult.
The groomed her and convinced her to move over there.

I think she should be allowed return to the UK. She's a UK citizen and the government should never refuse a citizen the ability to return. That doesn't mean that she couldn't be charged with stuff when she gets back, or that she shouldn't be monitored.

I remember a Grayson from years ago posting on the now defunct Islam forum. Was that you?

Fiftyfilthy · 15-02-2019 2:11pm

Better safe than sorry, I’d just kill her and anything else that poses a risk tbf

animaal · 15-02-2019 2:14pm

I think the UK has the right approach. Right now, she's not in the UK, and the UK is not obliged to do anything to assist her.

If and when she turns up on the UK's doorstep, and if they're satisfied as to her identity, they probably have to let her enter the UK again. But that's where the UK legal system would step in and apply its full vigour.

There may come a time when she's free in the UK. At that point, she will need to be monitored very closely by the state. That's a drain, but it's the price to be paid for providing in a free society.

We had a similar situation with home-grown terrorists; the solution wasn't to shoot them in the head or revoke citizenship.

GinAndBitter · 15-02-2019 2:24pm

animaal wrote: »

We had a similar situation with home-grown terrorists; the solution wasn't to shoot them in the head or revoke citizenship.

It's not similar at all though really.

Plumbthedepths · 15-02-2019 2:31pm

Guy:Incognito wrote:

If you had joined the IRA at 15 and bombed somewhere, do you think you shouldnt be held accountable so?

The armed forces of her majesty had no problem shooting 15 year olds.

Gimme A Pound · 15-02-2019 2:32pm

Grayson wrote: »

The other way of looking at it that she was groomed by a cult and lived in a cult for a number of years.
And that's what ISIS are, a death cult.
The groomed her and convinced her to move over there.

I think she should be allowed return to the UK. She's a UK citizen and the government should never refuse a citizen the ability to return. That doesn't mean that she couldn't be charged with stuff when she gets back, or that she shouldn't be monitored.

animaal wrote: »

I think the UK has the right approach. Right now, she's not in the UK, and the UK is not obliged to do anything to assist her.

If and when she turns up on the UK's doorstep, and if they're satisfied as to her identity, they probably have to let her enter the UK again. But that's where the UK legal system would step in and apply its full vigour.

There may come a time when she's free in the UK. At that point, she will need to be monitored very closely by the state. That's a drain, but it's the price to be paid for providing in a free society.

We had a similar situation with home-grown terrorists; the solution wasn't to shoot them in the head or revoke citizenship.

Yeah I agree with some of those points too.

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

Better safe than sorry, I’d just kill her and anything else that poses a risk tbf

Would you maybe give her a chance to have the baby first?

Plumbthedepths · 15-02-2019 2:34pm

SoundsRight wrote:

I understand the desire to see this girl suffer. But we must be better than that. She wants to live in a western, Christian society. That's an admission that their Islamic fantasy is a failure.

No she wants the safety of a western democratic society you do know how radicalism Islam feel about Christians right?but she still subscribes to the hatred preached by ISIS.

ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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