The 'Drink Link'

drunkmonkey · 10-05-2018 9:29am

Hurrache wrote: »

What's wrong with the local hackneys and mini bus operators? Or even a bit of local entrepreneurship? Why won't a taxi driver operate on a weekend, the most lucrative time of the week, off to the pub?

People in rural areas didn't have a great public transport service and it was pulled from under them all of a sudden. They've managed for generations up until now. Nothing is changing.

Did you even read what I wrote. Come on smarty pay attention.

10-05-2018 9:38am

Bollocks, I chose to live in rural setting. And even at that I'm 1 and 2 kilometres from nearest villages, 10km from a big town, 30km from city, and would never expect to have a drink link.

Why would I expect that government subsidise my drinking?
In my area (North Cork) there are sports clubs, gun clubs, social activities, community centre based activities etc.
Different activities take part during day and evenings.

Rural Ireland really needs to get over itself, there are sacrifices to living outside habitation hubs.
And stop making the fecking pub the centre of everything

Hurrache · 10-05-2018 9:51am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Did you even read what I wrote. Come on smarty pay attention.

It's hard to follow when you keep moving the goalposts.

drunkmonkey · 10-05-2018 10:01am

Deleted User wrote: »

Bollocks, I chose to live in rural setting. And even at that I'm 1 and 2 kilometres from nearest villages, 10km from a big town, 30km from city, and would never expect to have a drink link.

Why would I expect that government subsidise my drinking?
In my area (North Cork) there are sports clubs, gun clubs, social activities, community centre based activities etc.
Different activities take part during day and evenings.

Rural Ireland really needs to get over itself, there are sacrifices to living outside habitation hubs.
And stop making the fecking pub the centre of everything

I bet you have access to Taxi's though being only 30km from the city. The argument is this scheme isn't a fix for rural transport.
Have you any issue with local guys doing an uber to plug the gap.
Nobody asked anyone to subsidize their drinking, this is a Shane Ross initiative.
If I'm getting a lift somewhere I expect to pay for it, I just want the option to be able to. With the government not stipulating areas should have cover and banning services such as Uber there's no fix in site.

drunkmonkey · 10-05-2018 10:03am

Hurrache wrote: »

It's hard to follow when you keep moving the goalposts.

If you made less assumptions your probably fair better.

10-05-2018 10:06am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I bet you have access to Taxi's though being only 30km from the city. The argument is this scheme isn't a fix for rural transport.
Have you any issue with local guys doing an uber to plug the gap.
Nobody asked anyone to subsidize their drinking, this is a Shane Ross initiative.
If I'm getting a lift somewhere I expect to pay for it, I just want the option to be able to. With the government not stipulating areas should have cover and banning services such as Uber there's no fix in site.

Why do you need a lift? Why can't you drive?

n97 mini · 10-05-2018 10:25am

UberX and UberPool (both of which we don't have in this country) would be perfect for rural Ireland. From experience of UberX in other countries, drivers do it for a bit of extra cash, not as their main source of income. So you get students, to retirees, and everything in between. Uber self-insure (like Dublin Bus) so there is no problem with insurance.

The drink link is costing taxpayers €450,000 and is providing a limited service. UberX would have cost nothing and would provide a door-to-door service.

drunkmonkey · 10-05-2018 10:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do you need a lift? Why can't you drive?

Because I'll be having a few beers. This isn't about me it's only the odd time I need help getting home but I would move a lot more around if I knew I could get around more easily.

10-05-2018 10:35am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Because I'll be having a few beers. This isn't about me it's only the odd time I need help getting home but I would move a lot more around if I knew I could get around more easily.

So you choose to live in a rural setting, set social scene around the pub, and expect a public transport system to facilitate this?

Or have Uber (and its massive horrid flaws) use a gig economy of exploitation to facilitate this?

No one's forcing you or anyone else to have a few beers.

10-05-2018 10:36am

And what do you mean by move around??

ednwireland · 10-05-2018 10:45am

im missing something here, the route 'announced' in our area is just an extension of donegal town to glencolumbcille 53km, last bus currently goes at 17:43 most work is in shops which close around 6pm or much later, not sure how thats a drink link!

you cant get to any local town for 9am even the first train into sligo doesnt arrive until 11 there basically is no public transport for workers

drunkmonkey · 10-05-2018 10:50am

Deleted User wrote: »

So you choose to live in a rural setting, set social scene around the pub, and expect a public transport system to facilitate this?

Or have Uber (and its massive horrid flaws) use a gig economy of exploitation to facilitate this?

No one's forcing you or anyone else to have a few beers.

What is it with this thread and assumptions.
I'd don't live in a rural setting, I can easily walk to a load or pubs. What I can't do is get from town or village A to B as it's not covered outside Friday and Saturday night.

That's where I see some kind of local Uber type service filling the gaps.

Your down on Uber, down on someone having a few beers, have you anything to add to push the thread into a sensible solution rather than the suck it up attitude for people who want the option of some kind of transport services. Nobody is asking you to pay for Uber.

Hurrache · 10-05-2018 11:16am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What I can't do is get from town or village A to B as it's not covered outside Friday and Saturday night.

Taxi?

drunkmonkey · 10-05-2018 11:46am

Hurrache wrote: »

Taxi?

Exactly but who fills in the gaps when there isn't one. This bus scheme isn't a stand alone business but the Uber idea does away with a lot of the costs of providing a service.

10-05-2018 12:09pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What is it with this thread and assumptions.
I'd don't live in a rural setting, I can easily walk to a load or pubs. What I can't do is get from town or village A to B as it's not covered outside Friday and Saturday night.

That's where I see some kind of local Uber type service filling the gaps.

Your down on Uber, down on someone having a few beers, have you anything to add to push the thread into a sensible solution rather than the suck it up attitude for people who want the option of some kind of transport services. Nobody is asking you to pay for Uber.

Uber is a cancer. Horrid horrid business which takes no responsibility it's own actions or that of its drivers

Here's a sensible solution. Don't drink if you choose live somewhere requiring driving, without having alternative methods of transport.
Arrange social activities that are not focused on the all important pub.

Del2005 · 10-05-2018 12:27pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What is it with this thread and assumptions.
I'd don't live in a rural setting, I can easily walk to a load or pubs. What I can't do is get from town or village A to B as it's not covered outside Friday and Saturday night.

That's where I see some kind of local Uber type service filling the gaps.

Your down on Uber, down on someone having a few beers, have you anything to add to push the thread into a sensible solution rather than the suck it up attitude for people who want the option of some kind of transport services. Nobody is asking you to pay for Uber.

The reason you can't get from village A to village B is because nobody lives in either village so public transport isn't viable and if there was enough demand for taxis then someone would already be running one.

When I was young I spent a lot of time in a very rural area of Mayo. If we wanted to go somewhere we had to arrange lifts from others, Uber!, or arrange are own minibus, why can't the locals arrange their own transport?

What you can't seem to understand is that all countries struggle with rural transport and because of the blight of one off houses our rural areas are impossible to provide public transport to. If you want travel between villages or from villages to towns then you need people living in them, otherwise they'll have to drive to the local town/village for the bus stop. But once they are in the car they'll skip the local village and just drive to the next town.

drunkmonkey · 10-05-2018 12:55pm

That's cute you spent some time in Mayo on school holidays.

Your 100% correct it isn't a viable business. Neither is the proposed drink link. I think your wrong about nobody living in villages and towns though just not the amount travelling constantly to make the business sustainable.

A Uber type service is as there's no overheads. It's just local people helping themselves in a some way organised manner.

Experience_day · 10-05-2018 1:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Uber is a cancer. Horrid horrid business which takes no responsibility it's own actions or that of its drivers

Here's a sensible solution. Don't drink if you choose live somewhere requiring driving, without having alternative methods of transport.
Arrange social activities that are not focused on the all important pub.

But you run into the reality that in a rural countryside, outside of the pub there is going to realistically be very little else that springs up. Hell pubs only survive because they are already there...

10-05-2018 1:50pm

Experience_day wrote: »

But you run into the reality that in a rural countryside, outside of the pub there is going to realistically be very little else that springs up. Hell pubs only survive because they are already there...

Very few places in Ireland are THAT far from a good sized town. There are plenty of things to do but Irish people just have to go to the pub and drink

Macy0161 · 10-05-2018 2:06pm

Experience_day wrote: »

But you run into the reality that in a rural countryside, outside of the pub there is going to realistically be very little else that springs up. Hell pubs only survive because they are already there...

It can be hard to get booking space in our local halls between cards, bingo, historical society, dances, bowls, table tennis, sewing circle, fitness classes...

If there's nothing else but the pub, it comes back to the community and the modern day issue of it's not there someone else should provide it/ it's someone else's fault. Like the transport issue.

Del2005 · 10-05-2018 6:33pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's cute you spent some time in Mayo on school holidays.

Your 100% correct it isn't a viable business. Neither is the proposed drink link. I think your wrong about nobody living in villages and towns though just not the amount travelling constantly to make the business sustainable.

A Uber type service is as there's no overheads. It's just local people helping themselves in a some way organised manner.

Yes it's also cute that as teenagers we were able to organise transport but many years later grown adults can't.

Public transport could be viable if more people lived in the towns and villages. But since most people live in a one off house then they will need to drive to get to the local village, if they are going to drive then they will skip the local village and drive to the bigger town for the cheaper shopping. So by living apart from each other you are making your own transport problems and no amount of complaining on the internet will fix it.

It's only €125 for a taxi licence so there are other reasons why people aren't offering taxi services. So why do you need Uber? Don't forget that even if they changed the law to allow the rest of Uber into Ireland the insurance is what will kill it.

n97 mini · 11-05-2018 9:08am

Del2005 wrote: »

Don't forget that even if they changed the law to allow the rest of Uber into Ireland the insurance is what will kill it.

Uber self insures.

11-05-2018 9:15am

n97 mini wrote: »

Uber self insures.

Does it research its drivers?
Are the vehicles registered and inspected as public vehicles?

Are the drivers registered with PSV licences?

Do Uber treat drivers fairly?
Does Uber's business model destroy the availability of taxis at non peak times, by removing ability of drivers to subsidise the rest of the week, by working at peak also?

Why can Irish people (generally) not do anything not pub based?

bk · 11-05-2018 10:48am

Deleted User wrote: »

Does it research its drivers?
Are the vehicles registered and inspected as public vehicles?

Are the drivers registered with PSV licences?

Do Uber treat drivers fairly?
Does Uber's business model destroy the availability of taxis at non peak times, by removing ability of drivers to subsidise the rest of the week, by working at peak also?

Why can Irish people (generally) not do anything not pub based?

Uber operates under different regulations in different countries, so the answers to your questions above depending on which country, state, city you are asking about.

In Ireland, yes, all Uber drivers have full PSV licenses (taxis or Limos) and vehicles are inspected per the NCT (same as Taxis). Same in UK.

US they also offer other services in some states, like Uber X, where no the vehicles aren't PSV. However Uber has it's own quality standards and IME they are much higher then average Taxi's here.

Almost every time I've taken an Uber in the US, it has always been a relatively new, big black saloon or SUV. Frankly most have been much better then any Taxi I've ever taken in Ireland and also spotlessly clean.

Honestly I have to laugh at your questions. Taxi's aren't anything special here, almost any old banger, as long as it passes the NCT, can be a taxi here. Also getting a PSV license here doesn't guranatee anything. A person with a criminal record can get a PSV license, other then the cost of it, pretty much anyone can get it. Doesn't guarantee anything at all.

I'd much rather take a UberX in the US, then a Taxi here.

Del2005 · 11-05-2018 11:19am

n97 mini wrote: »

Uber self insures.

In countries which have functioning insurance industries. Are they insuring their current Irish drivers?

11-05-2018 11:31am

bk wrote: »

Uber operates under different regulations in different countries, so the answers to your questions above depending on which country, state, city you are asking about.

In Ireland, yes, all Uber drivers have full PSV licenses (taxis or Limos) and vehicles are inspected per the NCT (same as Taxis). Same in UK.

US they also offer other services in some states, like Uber X, where no the vehicles aren't PSV. However Uber has it's own quality standards and IME they are much higher then average Taxi's here.

Almost every time I've taken an Uber in the US, it has always been a relatively new, big black saloon or SUV. Frankly most have been much better then any Taxi I've ever taken in Ireland and also spotlessly clean.

Honestly I have to laugh at your questions. Taxi's aren't anything special here, almost any old banger, as long as it passes the NCT, can be a taxi here. Also getting a PSV license here doesn't guranatee anything. A person with a criminal record can get a PSV license, other then the cost of it, pretty much anyone can get it. Doesn't guarantee anything at all.

I'd much rather take a UberX in the US, then a Taxi here.

To be an uber driver in Ireland you'll need a SPSV, vehicle licence and taxi insurance. So a taxi driver
That's in place because of the disaster stories from other countries.

You need garda vetting to get your SPSV licence. Uber has fought every safety step, while they push drivers to dangerous levels.

If a rural area can support a professional driver it'll have one.

Having Uber practices here would be a disaster and push the "gig" economy further, an exploitation of general workers which should be banned.

11-05-2018 11:31am

Del2005 wrote: »

In countries which have functioning insurance industries. Are they insuring their current Irish drivers?

Don't think so.

n97 mini · 11-05-2018 12:27pm

Del2005 wrote: »

In countries which have functioning insurance industries. Are they insuring their current Irish drivers?

Uber exists in name only here. There is nothing uber about the service, it's a regular taxi with regular taxi fares and regular taxi insurance.

n97 mini · 11-05-2018 12:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If a rural area can support a professional driver it'll have one.

Taxi costs are very high, from insurance to fares. Taxi drivers also expect to be able to make their full living from driving a taxi. All those are barriers to entry which means even moderate sized rural towns can't support a taxi.

11-05-2018 12:53pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Taxi costs are very high, from insurance to fares. Taxi drivers also expect to be able to make their full living from driving a taxi. All those are barriers to entry which means even moderate sized rural towns can't support a taxi.

Same reason no bus.

It's the trade off for living rurally (like I do) and the obsession with going to the pub

bk · 11-05-2018 6:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

To be an uber driver in Ireland you'll need a SPSV, vehicle licence and taxi insurance. So a taxi driver
That's in place because of the disaster stories from other countries.

You need garda vetting to get your SPSV licence. Uber has fought every safety step, while they push drivers to dangerous levels.

I feel you are being quiet naive about how the Taxi industry operates in Ireland.

The reality is pretty much any old lad, with almost any car can get a license here. Their is a barrier to entry during to insurance costs, but certainly little or non around vetting.

Fully vetted taxi drivers in Ireland have been found guilty of rape and kidnapping. Of course that is a very small minpority, but it shows how much a joke "vetting" is.

Frankly I feel just as safe in an UberX in the US as I do in a Taxi here. At least with Uber they are tracking both the drivers and your phone and you can share your current location with a family or friend. There is also the whole rating system where drivers with bad rating quickly get kicked off the service.

As I said, I find Ubers in the US and around the world where I've used them (South America) to be very safe and a much higher quality of service to Taxis here.

Sure it is a different model to regulated Taxi's, but I'm pretty convinced it is a superior model, at least from the customer point of view.

byhookorbycrook · 11-05-2018 6:45pm

Ok, my two cents. I live at the edge of a small town but have mobility issues. We don't go to the pub for a drink, because it's too far for me to walk, even to drive up and walk home after. There are two taxis in the town, both of which are making money bringing 4 people at a tine to the next big town and don' have any interest in us. So that's the "live in a town" argument gone out the window.

11-05-2018 7:43pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Ok, my two cents. I live at the edge of a small town but have mobility issues. We don't go to the pub for a drink, because it's too far for me to walk, even to drive up and walk home after. There are two taxis in the town, both of which are making money bringing 4 people at a tine to the next big town and don' have any interest in us. So that's the "live in a town" argument gone out the window.

Apologies no. You would be an outlier, the vast vast majority of people have no issues like yours. Most people giving out are doing so because they can't get beer.

As for Uber, I'm not being naive about the state of the Irish taxi industry but categorically stating that Uber style business is not the answer to any transport issue.

AVFC.Stephen · 11-05-2018 8:01pm

I really don't get the problem. You have folks that live in rural Ireland and would like to get out. 19 counties will be subsidised by around 4 I think. Then on top of it you vet a service that's not half bad with no traffic to mess up the time table. Win win if you ask me

Btw. I live in Dublin which will heavily fund this and see nothing from it.

But it be nice in my eyes for folks to have an option if they want to get out regardless the age

dublinbuster · 11-05-2018 9:14pm

so cant afford to buy a bus ticket so the state give me a FTP which i can use on the drink link, but can afford a night out in the pub, something is off here, cant put my finger on it

11-05-2018 10:28pm

The Uber argument is a fallacy

If such a market existed in rural areas there would already be taxis and hackney's servicing

Where there is a large enough cluster of population this is the reality

The issue with rural Ireland is the one off housing all over the place instead of consolidation in towns and villages.

Just imagine how vibrant rural Ireland would be now if all the one off houses built in the last 20 years were instead built in the immediate vicinity of towns and villages instead of all over the place

That's rural Irelands biggest issue

howiya · 11-05-2018 10:32pm

dublinbuster wrote: »

so cant afford to buy a bus ticket so the state give me a FTP which i can use on the drink link, but can afford a night out in the pub, something is off here, cant put my finger on it

Affordability isn't one of the key factors for the state handing out FTP. Turn 66 and you'll get one yourself regardless of whether you can afford a bus ticket or not.

n97 mini · 11-05-2018 10:33pm

While I've used Uber extensively abroad, we'll never know whether Uber would work or not in rural Ireland.

XPS_Zero · 12-05-2018 1:01am

howiya wrote: »

Affordability isn't one of the key factors for the state handing out FTP. Turn 66 and you'll get one yourself regardless of whether you can afford a bus ticket or not.

Saving on healthcare spending is one of the key rationales for the FTP it's not really about affording the fares it was/is to encourage people to get out and about who are in high risk groups to slip into sedentary lifestyles which would cost the state a fortune to treat, it also works as a backdoor domestic tourism booster. Cost isn't really the factor, I was in a VERY unusual position cost wise where I had trouble affording drugs not yet on the GMS system here (private ones) and I had to skimp very badly to afford fares for a period (reprogramming a LEAP card, an anomaly they copped on to eventually :P ), but even in my extreme case that was only necessary for a limited period.
Means testing it would cost more than you'd save since only about 10% of the population make anyway high incomes most are around the 30-50 k mark and even smaller number have any actual wealth.

The rest of the time I just tried to use the caps to my advantage by pushing as many appointments and errands onto the same day.

On the main topic I find the moaning and whinging about this extraordinary. Ross is a crap transport minister of course, though that should have come as no surprise whatsoever to anyone. I have been telling people for years and told them last time independents only care about their own backyard (with the odd exception) dont vote for them, they will happily screw the rest of the country if their own back yard is taken care of, and Ross is proof of that. Make one a minister and you have him using the national budget for his own backyard working on issues like Garda stations that have jack all to do with his main job. At the same time they've been asking for this for years - and here it is, they gave every license that was applied for. Reminds me of the time I was forced to defend Harris (vomit) from people whinging about medical cannabis saying they could not get access - same thing - he had signed every license that was applied for and still there was moaning.

It's the same with wanting a full general hospital right next door to you when you live in a rural area : your areas population does not bloody support that service.

This is the adult world, all choices have trade offs and consequences. Living in an urban area has disadvantages and so does living in a rural one: this is one of them. We try within the bounds of reason to moderate those disadvantages but ultimately Kerrys not getting a 46a, it's never going to happen

Purple Mountain · 12-05-2018 1:04am

Anyone know where there's a list of the routes?
See if any boozer local to me is on it!

Purple Mountain · 12-05-2018 1:04am

Anyone know where there's a list of the routes?
See if any boozer local to me is on it!

howiya · 12-05-2018 1:34am

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Anyone know where there's a list of the routes?
See if any boozer local to me is on it!

Vague outline here

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Rural_Night_Services.pdf

NinetyTwoTeam · 12-05-2018 2:49am

i hope some of the ould lads (and lassies) from out in the sticks get the shift on the new booze bus fair play to them boy

dublinbuster · 12-05-2018 9:51am

XPS_Zero wrote: »

the FTP it's not really about affording the fares it was/is to encourage people to get out and about who are in high risk groups to slip into sedentary lifestyles which would cost the state a fortune to treat,

sedentary lifestyles, i dont think you know what this means
going to a pub is not exercise

cgcsb · 14-05-2018 9:04am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A proper public transport service, this isn't a solution. If you want to tackle it fast, make it a stipulation on taxi/hackeny licences that all areas have access to transport 24/7 where no bus or train service exists and those details are published. If we have to subsidize drivers for quite nights to be on call so be it, everyone gets home all the time just like in the city's.
It's needs to be a full country plan, for example if there's a big concert in Dublin Irish Rail will put on special trains. The one going south stops in Limerick junction and Cork so again no use to anyone in rural Ireland even though it passes plenty of stations to let people off.

The country is in a jocker due to the third world transport network, a good one would even solve a lot of the housing problem in Dublin, if it took 30 minutes to get from Limerick to Dublin on high speed trains you wouldn't have a housing crisis.

Ireland has 40% of it's population living in rural areas, due to poor planning. Our overall population density is also low. It's not feasible to provide a service for everyone unless everyone moved to towns over night. If you want to be near pubs my advice would be to go live in your village. If that prospect doesn't appeal, then you're probably not too interested in pubs.

If you ask me, the last thing rural Ireland needs is easier access to alcohol. Some TDs seem to argue that easier access to alcohol is somehow going to solve issues of isolation and depression despite evidence to the contrary. If people chose to live in isolated locations and then complain they are isolated and want the government to bring them to the pub, you know the nanny state is gone too far. Drive to the pub and have a shandy if you want to go that bad.

cgcsb · 14-05-2018 9:07am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Swing that around and why should anyone outside the pale subsidize the Luas, Dublin bus, Irish Rail etc.

quite simply, they don't. Greater Dublin and the South West are the only regions that take in more taxes than they spend.

cgcsb · 14-05-2018 9:09am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yes because they won't share the jobs or put any transport infrastructure

Nucleated settlements are how modern societies provide public services, this has been the case since the stone age and more markedly so since the industrial revolution and globalization.

cgcsb · 14-05-2018 9:13am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

When you have a housing crisis due to overpopulation in one particular area it's time to look at alternatives.

Nowhere in Ireland or even Europe suffers from 'overpopulation' That's a problem for East Asia. We have a housing crisis because Ireland created NAMA to take over bad debts associated with overpriced residential development, subsequently public policy sought to make housing expensive to restrict supply and therefore re-inflate the value of existing assets.

Government policy is now changing though. This July the government will force Dublin and Cork City councils to remove the height restrictions they put in to stifle development.

cgcsb · 14-05-2018 9:19am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If your trying to get from one town to the other.

On a sort of booze cruise like?
pay for it yourself and cop on. You and your mates can hire a bus if u like

cgcsb · 14-05-2018 9:26am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How do you know you weren't over the limit?

You can purchase your own breathaliser off amazon if it's that big an issue for you. Personally, I'm not a roaring alco, so I wouldn't get myself so ham faced of an evening that I wouldn't be able to drive 12 hours later, when I knew perfectly well the night before that I'd need to drive the next day. Take personal responsibility for yourself.

If you are that into the pub may I suggest an apartment in Athlone or seomthing. you could even stay in airbnbs in different towns when on one of your booze cruises.

The 'Drink Link'

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