The Frederick St protest and reaction

knipex · 12-09-2018 12:49pm

guylikeme wrote: »

I guess that the same was thought about the tank man in China. Rosa Parks on that bus. Numerous other examples.

Raising awareness of failed policies does achieve these things bit by bit.

Really ???

How many houses have they occupied now ? Do all those compare to Rosa parks or Tank man ??

Do all the court orders they ignore make their protests even more valid ??

Are we no longer allowed to enforce court orders ? Do court orders have no standing any more ? Can no one who illegally takes over a house be forced to leave ? What if it was your house ? Or your mothers ?

Wheeliebin30 · 12-09-2018 12:51pm

Lux23 wrote: »

So you're happy that public funding is going into private landlord's pockets rather than fund social or affordable housing? And Paul Murphy pays as much tax as you do, probably more.

Have you a costing for these houses you want given at discount rates to mostly spongers?

The government built 4,000 social houses already this year, too much if you ask me.

I’d like more of my taxes been spent on things that will benefit my kids.

seamus · 12-09-2018 12:51pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

While I completely agree that the Garda have to do their job. Which is to uphold any court order to evict them. I find the wearing of balaclavas and the presence of private security very sinister indeed.

It probably feels sinister because there are cultural connotations in Ireland about the balaclava.

This doesn't exist in other countries. It's SOP for police units where necessary to wear balaclavas to protect themselves from revenge attacks. It might looks sinister, but it does the job. The Gardai use them all the time.

As has been mentioned, the Gardai do not carry out evictions. Their purpose was to ensure that there were no public order incidents while the eviction was happening. The landlord would have notified the Gardai that this was happening, and the Gardai would have decided if attendance was necessary. It's not standard for evictions, but they will usually provide support if the landlord requests it.
The Gardai's duty while there is protect everyone, not just the people carrying out the eviction. Heavy-handed landlords have in the past been arrested for assault while carrying out an eviction with Garda support.

There is no law that compels a person to expose their face in public, the hired goons are perfectly entitled to cover their face while in public and while in the property.

The legislation covering security services, does not apply to this kind of activity. The hired goons carrying out the eviction are not required to have any training nor carry any ID.

knipex · 12-09-2018 12:51pm

Lux23 wrote: »

This was absolutely appalling. The Gardai should not be acting as a private security force for landlords nevermind turning up wearing balaclavas. I haven't been involved in these protests at all, but I will attend one if I can.

You are either woefully ignorant of what occurred or a troll.

If someone occupied your house, and you went to the cost of going to court and getting an eviction order woudl you not expect it to be enforced ??

Lux23 · 12-09-2018 12:52pm

Hurrache wrote: »

And there we go. In fairness it took a lot longer than I was expecting for this zinger to be posted.

What zinger? Ignorant f**k.

Mod: Banned

Lux23 · 12-09-2018 12:54pm

knipex wrote: »

You are either woefully ignorant of what occurred or a troll.

If someone occupied your house, and you went to the cost of going to court and getting an eviction order woudl you not expect it to be enforced ??

Oh, I thought private landlords were such victims that court orders were never enforced for them?

F**K the landlord, and f**ck every C**t that defends them. Sick of it.

jam_mac_jam · 12-09-2018 12:54pm

riffmongous wrote: »

10000maniacs wrote: »

If somebody owns a property lock stock and barrel, what is the problem?
Lefties don't get the ownership concept.
Everything to them is fair game if it is not nailed down.

And righties don't seem to get the concept of having a housing and rental bubble, they'll be well able to bitch afterwards though of course

Except when the banks, developers need to be bailed out again.. then its different. Then the state should help.

jam_mac_jam · 12-09-2018 12:57pm

seamus wrote: »

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

While I completely agree that the Garda have to do their job. Which is to uphold any court order to evict them. I find the wearing of balaclavas and the presence of private security very sinister indeed.

It probably feels sinister because there are cultural connotations in Ireland about the balaclava.

This doesn't exist in other countries. It's SOP for police units where necessary to wear balaclavas to protect themselves from revenge attacks. It might looks sinister, but it does the job. The Gardai use them all the time.

As has been mentioned, the Gardai do not carry out evictions. Their purpose was to ensure that there were no public order incidents while the eviction was happening. The landlord would have notified the Gardai that this was happening, and the Gardai would have decided if attendance was necessary. It's not standard for evictions, but they will usually provide support if the landlord requests it.
The Gardai's duty while there is protect everyone, not just the people carrying out the eviction. Heavy-handed landlords have in the past been arrested for assault while carrying out an eviction with Garda support.

There is no law that compels a person to expose their face in public, the hired goons are perfectly entitled to cover their face while in public and while in the property.

The legislation covering security services, does not apply to this kind of activity. The hired goons carrying out the eviction are not required to have any training nor carry any ID.

You are probably right about the cultural connotation alright. And I can see why they would need to protect themselves.
Just feels sinister to me.

PlaneSpeeking · 12-09-2018 1:02pm

RWCNT wrote: »

What do you mean? What is "it" and who has to pay for it? Are you suggesting that Paul Murphy doesn't pay any tax on his 90 odd grand salary?

90 grand for being a f**king pox. Jesus.

Hurrache · 12-09-2018 1:04pm

Lux23 wrote: »

What zinger? Ignorant f**k.

What rapport we have. Maybe we should take this off line and get a room?

riffmongous · 12-09-2018 1:08pm

seamus wrote: »

It probably feels sinister because there are cultural connotations in Ireland about the balaclava.

This doesn't exist in other countries. It's SOP for police units where necessary to wear balaclavas to protect themselves from revenge attacks. It might looks sinister, but it does the job. The Gardai use them all the time.

As has been mentioned, the Gardai do not carry out evictions. Their purpose was to ensure that there were no public order incidents while the eviction was happening. The landlord would have notified the Gardai that this was happening, and the Gardai would have decided if attendance was necessary. It's not standard for evictions, but they will usually provide support if the landlord requests it.
The Gardai's duty while there is protect everyone, not just the people carrying out the eviction. Heavy-handed landlords have in the past been arrested for assault while carrying out an eviction with Garda support.

There is no law that compels a person to expose their face in public, the hired goons are perfectly entitled to cover their face while in public and while in the property.

The legislation covering security services, does not apply to this kind of activity. The hired goons carrying out the eviction are not required to have any training nor carry any ID.

No front reg either though which is a bit weird

10000maniacs · 12-09-2018 1:08pm

riffmongous wrote: »

And righties don't seem to get the concept of having a housing and rental bubble, they'll be well able to bitch afterwards though of course

The housing bubble is not going to be resolved by some leftie government requisitioning property that does not belong to them. The Nazis tried that in Berlin in the 30's with Jewish properties and see how that ended up.

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 1:10pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

The housing bubble is not going to be resolved by some leftie government requisitioning property that does not belong to them. The Nazis tried that in Berlin in the 30's with Jewish properties and see how that ended up.

So the options are a. do nothing or b. Nazis...?

Gatling · 12-09-2018 1:10pm

NuMarvel wrote: »

The court order was issued to the occupiers to vacate the premises. Non-compliance with that becomes a matter for the Gardaí or other state officers, not private individuals.

But evictions like these or from houses has always been done by private officers,and not the Garda ,
When the Gardai are asked to attend they are used to keep the peace and deter trouble makers .

I certainly don't want to see the Gardai been used for standard everyday evictions ,how many would be taken off normal duties for evictions which would invoke more more protests about breaching civil rights ,

erica74 · 12-09-2018 1:13pm

Lux23 wrote: »

Oh, I thought private landlords were such victims that court orders were never enforced for them?

F**K the landlord, and f**ck every C**t that defends them. Sick of it.

knipex wrote: »

You are either woefully ignorant of what occurred or a troll.

If someone occupied your house, and you went to the cost of going to court and getting an eviction order woudl you not expect it to be enforced ??

You didn't answer the question Lux. And when you say "fuck the landlord", does that just apply to this landlord or all landlords?
Fuck an individual for owning property in a perfectly legal manner but hooray for people illegally squatting in someone else's property?

10000maniacs · 12-09-2018 1:14pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

So the options are a. do nothing or b. Nazis...?

its is nobody's business what people do with their properties as long as they stick to the by-laws of the area in question.

AudreyHepburn · 12-09-2018 1:15pm

I’d hate to be a Garda - you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

It seems the ‘have everything, pay for nothing’ brigade has now extended its remit ‘do whatever we want and get away with it’ and frankly it’s pathetic.

Fredrick’s Street is some one’s private property and it’s up to them how they use it. It is as simple as that.

And I don’t blame the Gardai for a moment for hiding their faces, they have a right to be protected.

12-09-2018 1:16pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

The government built 4,000 social houses already this year, too much if you ask me.

Where did you get that figure?

780 social houses were built in 2017, only 197 of which were in Dublin. That is a desperately low figure.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that local authorities built 4,000 units so far this year, I think you're fairly seriously mistaken there.

knipex · 12-09-2018 1:16pm

Lux23 wrote: »

Oh, I thought private landlords were such victims that court orders were never enforced for them?

F**K the landlord, and f**ck every C**t that defends them. Sick of it.

And then people wonder why landlords and pulling out of the market an they cannot find places to rent..

Guy:Incognito · 12-09-2018 1:17pm

Gatling wrote: »

But evictions like these or from houses has always been done by private officers,and not the Garda ,
When the Gardai are asked to attend they are used to keep the peace and deter trouble makers .

I certainly don't want to see the Gardai been used for standard everyday evictions ,how many would be taken off normal duties for evictions which would invoke more more protests about breaching civil rights ,

If people weren't acting the ****ing dick, occupying property they don't own and refusing to leave, even when ordered by the court (more expense they're costing) then the gardai wouldn't have to go out at all.

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 1:17pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

its is nobody's business what people do with their properties as long as they stick to the by-laws of the area in question.

So it is everyone elses' business then.

Can I ask though are 'by-laws' part of the 'do nothing' option or are they part of the Nazi hunt for landlords? I'm confused.

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 1:18pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If people weren't acting the ****ing dick, occupying property they don't own and refusing to leave, even when ordered by the court (more expense they're costing) then the gardai wouldn't have to go out at all.

If we had a functioning housing market then the Garda wouldn't need to act as the protectors for masked men, driving cars with no reg plate, who through protestors out occassioning injury.

12-09-2018 1:20pm

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’d hate to be a Garda - you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

Not really.

They're not damned if they continue to take the quite correct approach that disputes over private property constitute a civil matter.

I'm of the view that the occupiers of the property should have been removed or penalised by the courts, but not by removed the Gardaí, much less Gardaí wearing balaclavas - whatever happened to policing with the consent of the people?

I for one am not comfortable with a police force operating in that way. Police forces are given tremendous powers, and it's deeply worrying to think they can exercise those privileges in a way that is effectively anonymous, and therefore, pretty much unchecked.

zapitastas · 12-09-2018 1:20pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Look like a bunch of rent-a-thugs, which I guess they probably were

Looks like some of his old contacts in the uvf got a call. Wonder how the tendering process went

Guy:Incognito · 12-09-2018 1:20pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

If we had a functioning housing market then the Garda wouldn't need to act as the protectors for masked men, driving cars with no reg plate, who through protestors out occassioning injury.

Very concerned with other peoples possible infringements on the law while openly breaking the law..........

riffmongous · 12-09-2018 1:21pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Except when the banks, developers need to be bailed out again.. then its different. Then the state should help.

There wont be too many screaming to let the market take its course then

Guy:Incognito · 12-09-2018 1:21pm

zapitastas wrote: »

Looks like some of his old contacts in the uvf got a call. Wonder how the tendering process went

At least read the thread ffs. Someone already made the same stupid "observation" ages ago.

Hurrache · 12-09-2018 1:22pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not really.

They're not damned if they continue to take the quite correct approach that disputes over private property constitute a civil matter.

I'm of the view that the occupiers of the property should have been removed or penalised by the courts, but not by removed the Gardaí, much less Gardaí wearing balaclavas - whatever happened to policing with the consent of the people?

I for one am not comfortable with a police force operating in that way. Police forces are given tremendous powers, and it's deeply worrying to think they can exercise those privileges in a way that is effectively anonymous, and therefore, pretty much unchecked.

The courts and legal system apply the law of the people. Are you saying we should change our legal system so as that it should only apply where 100% of the people are in agreement with?

And that the people can chose the laws they wish to adhere to, and if they ignore it, there should be not method to enforce that law?

The gardai didn't do anything anonymously, the ones in the photos can be identified.

Wheeliebin30 · 12-09-2018 1:22pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Where did you get that figure?

780 social houses were built in 2017, only 197 of which were in Dublin. That is a desperately low figure.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that local authorities built 4,000 units so far this year, I think you're fairly seriously mistaken there.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thejournal.ie/housing-4-3965798-Apr2018/%3famp=1

Diving into the figures. a total of 4,969 new social housing units will be actually built this year (about 2,700 more than last year).

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 1:24pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Very concerned with other peoples possible infringements on the law while openly breaking the law..........

Yes. I am more concerned about masked members of AGS turning up to support the violent eviction of peaceful (albiet illegal) protestors, than with a group of students occuyping an abandoned Georgian house during a housing crisis.

If you're not, then your prioties are badly askew.

10000maniacs · 12-09-2018 1:24pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

So it is everyone elses' business then.

Can I ask though are 'by-laws' part of the 'do nothing' option or are they part of the Nazi hunt for landlords? I'm confused.

I cannot do anything about your confusion, Jobbridge for life.

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 1:25pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

I cannot do anything about your confusion, Jobbridge for life.

No, I didn't really think you could, since you seem to be completely oblivious to the confusion and hysteria of your own position.

Amirani · 12-09-2018 1:26pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not really.

They're not damned if they continue to take the quite correct approach that disputes over private property constitute a civil matter.

I'm of the view that the occupiers of the property should have been removed or penalised by the courts, but not by removed the Gardaí, much less Gardaí wearing balaclavas - whatever happened to policing with the consent of the people?

I for one am not comfortable with a police force operating in that way. Police forces are given tremendous powers, and it's deeply worrying to think they can exercise those privileges in a way that is effectively anonymous, and therefore, pretty much unchecked.

Where are you getting your information?

Can you point out your source for the activists being removed from the property by Gardaí?

seamus · 12-09-2018 1:26pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

They're not damned if they continue to take the quite correct approach that disputes over private property constitute a civil matter.

They did.

I'm of the view that the occupiers of the property should have been removed or penalised by the courts, but not by removed the Gardaí, much less Gardaí wearing balaclavas

You'll be glad to know then that the Gardai didn't remove anyone.

riffmongous wrote: »

No front reg either though which is a bit weird

Left the rear one on though, so probably just an oversight, e.g. it fell off and they never bothered replacing it. If they were trying to hide something, they would have taken both off.

It'd be easy to make the mistake that because some hired goons are wearing masks that they're a well organised force. Probably just Joe and Mick and a few mates with a battered aul van who've done some heavy lifting in the past. Not savvy paramilitaries.

Gardai should have issued a FCPN, but that's about all they can do.

Guy:Incognito · 12-09-2018 1:26pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Yes. I am more concerned about masked members of AGS turning up to support the violent eviction of peaceful (albiet illegal) protestors, than with a group of students occuyping an abandoned Georgian house during a housing crisis.

If you're not, then your prioties are badly askew.

Have a read of the thread there like a good lad and you'll see plenty of reasons the gards might not want their faces shown.

Everyone is peaceful until they're not...... (and they they blame the gardai, like they're supposed to stand there looking at them for months on end until they decide they are good and ready to leave. But also the gardai should be tackling all the other crime too)

12-09-2018 1:27pm

Hurrache wrote: »

The courts and legal system apply the law of the people. Are you saying we should change our legal system so as that it should only apply where 100% of the people are in agreement with?

And that the people can chose the laws they wish to adhere to, and if they ignore it, there should be not method to enforce that law?

That has absolutely nothing to do with what i said, and I've no idea where you got that notion.

Policing with consent is not just some empty rhetoric that I came up with, it is a well-known principle in policing that describes the trust and consent afforded to an accountable, transparent civil police force.

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thejournal.ie/housing-4-3965798-Apr2018/%3famp=1

Diving into the figures. a total of 4,969 new social housing units will be actually built this year (about 2,700 more than last year).

so you're wrong then.

That's the projected number of builds for the whole year, which have always been way behind target so far, most of which relate to construction by private builders under their social housing commitments, not local authority builds.

Dravokivich · 12-09-2018 1:27pm

Lux23 wrote: »

Oh, I thought private landlords were such victims that court orders were never enforced for them?

F**K the landlord, and f**ck every C**t that defends them. Sick of it.

Are you capable of looking beyond your nose?

zapitastas · 12-09-2018 1:27pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

At least read the thread ffs. Someone already made the same stupid "observation" ages ago.

Calm down there buddy

Amirani · 12-09-2018 1:28pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Yes. I am more concerned about masked members of AGS turning up to support the violent eviction of peaceful (albiet illegal) protestors, than with a group of students occuyping an abandoned Georgian house during a housing crisis.

How was it violent exactly? Are you just making things up?

Gardaí have said that the eviction was peaceful: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-say-removal-of-protesters-by-men-in-balaclavas-was-a-peaceful-eviction-37308796.html

A couple of activists went to hospital due to injuries while being arrested by Gardaí, this was not part of the eviction, but due to public order offences outside the property.

Mr. CooL ICE · 12-09-2018 1:28pm

Mod: Lux23 on a short holiday and won't be posting here again. Please stop replying to their posts.

Hurrache · 12-09-2018 1:29pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Policing with consent is not just some empty rhetoric that I came up with, it is a well-known principle in policing that describes the trust and consent afforded to an accountable, transparent civil police force.

So what was not accountable and transparent in this instance?

Guy:Incognito · 12-09-2018 1:29pm

zapitastas wrote: »

Calm down there buddy

Contribute something useful there, pal.

Even an auld "shame, shame, shame on you" chant or something

Wheeliebin30 · 12-09-2018 1:29pm

People break into a home illegally then scream peaceful protest.

What’s peaceful about breaking into someone’s house??????

mynamejeff · 12-09-2018 1:30pm

_Puma_ wrote: »

According to a picture on twitter the clapped out van had a northern reg before Gardai told them to take them off. New RUC commissioner must have got some of his loyalist mates down.

The extendable batons some of the Gardai are holding aren't liscenced for the Gardai either.

why did you post this ?

you obviously haven't a clue what you are talking about and are to dim to learn before you shout your mouth off online

extendable batons are not licence items
if they were the gardai wouldn't need a licence
the gardai in the picture are in public order gear
public order gear is fire retardant over alls and face covering some padding . baseball caps or helmet and boots.
And non extendable hard plastic batons

please dont comment unless or until you have any idea what you are talking about

its embarrassing

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 1:30pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Have a read of the thread there like a good lad and you'll see plenty of reasons the gards might not want their faces shown.

Everyone is peaceful until they're not...... (and they they blame the gardai, like they're supposed to stand there looking at them for months on end until they decide they are good and ready to leave. But also the gardai should be tackling all the other crime too)

I am confident that AGS might not want their faces shown, and that there may be valid reasons for same. I am confident they might want weapons too, and to bar individuals from taking photographs of their actions, and so on and so forth. None of this means they should be entitled to do so, or that they exercised the right to do so correctly in this instance.

jimmycrackcorm · 12-09-2018 1:30pm

jam_mac_jam wrote:

My impression was that legally you have to be indefinable acting in a security capacity for obvious reasons. Including the private security. Its sinister not to show your face when acting in this capacity. This isn't the cartels we are talking about here. A bit over the top.

It's already been posted. The act doesn't apply to these people.

Eggs For Dinner · 12-09-2018 1:30pm

Lux23 wrote: »

This was absolutely appalling. The Gardai should not be acting as a private security force for landlords nevermind turning up wearing balaclavas. I haven't been involved in these protests at all, but I will attend one if I can.

The occupiers were in that house illegally and the Gardaí were executing a court order. they were performing their duty to uphold the law. Off you go and have a good old protest. While you're at one, make sure somebody is minding your home in case these lads move in while you're out. If they do, you'll be on the phone immediately to.......The Gardai

For Forks Sake · 12-09-2018 1:30pm

zapitastas wrote: »

Looks like some of his old contacts in the uvf got a call. Wonder how the tendering process went

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 1:32pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

People break into a home illegally then scream peaceful protest.

What’s peaceful about breaking into someone’s house??????

Was this abandoned building a 'home'? I think you will find that the protestors undertook this action precisely because this abandoned property isn't a home.

Peaceful occupation of abandoned property is a feature of political protest and housing direct action across Europe.

12-09-2018 1:33pm

Hurrache wrote: »

So what was not accountable and transparent in this instance?

wearing balaclavas when undertaking policing duties, possibly whilst using force (but under any circumstances) impedes accountability (eg witness accounts are severely limited); there's also a psychological dimension in that people who believe they have an enhanced degree of anonymity tend to act-out in a more aggressive and confrontational manner than might ordinarily be expected (that's the whole basis for the nonsense spewed by keyboard warriors, after all).

Amirani wrote: »

How was it violent exactly? Are you just making things up?

Gardaí have said that the eviction was peaceful:

Oh! Well then!

The Frederick St protest and reaction

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