Completely Put Off Having Children

Danzy · 27-05-2020 9:06pm

The joy and meaning that children bring is truly incredible.

Tell me how · 27-05-2020 9:10pm

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

Having children is perhaps the biggest personal sacrifice one can make.

They can take all and offer nothing but grief and toil in return.

However, the one thing they do give you is priceless; Meaning.

You can reach the end of your days childless, but financially rich, having led a carefree life but I guarantee you, that it will feel hollow and empty.

You can reach the end of your days poor, and worn through, having toiled and grafted through your days of parentage, but I also guarantee you that you will close your eyes knowing that your life of toil and sacrifices have given your life, and those of your future generations much meaning.

Man must have a purpose. What's the point if you just spend your days eating grapes and only pretending at continuing the species?

As for the world children will be born into, anyone born in Ireland is born into paradise.
They could be born in far far worse places.

And so what if you are thrust into parenting in the bowels of hell? Who better than you and your future generations to turn that Hell into heaven?

Because if it's not you, or your family, who else is going to do it?

You absolutely cannot guarantee this.
What is a persons purpose? To procreate? Why then just have one or some children with one partner, surely to optimise that purpose it would be to have as many children as possible.

We are all most likely accidental beings struggling to identify a purpose to lessen the turmoil we have as a result of conscious thought.

For many, caring for their offspring is the purpose which they align themselves with either consciously or otherwise and good for them.

But what then for those without children? Are they lesser beings for being so? Angela Merkel has led her country for 20 years and has no children, would she have fulfilled a greater purpose had she sought to have a child and not consider a role in politics (not that they are mutually exclusive)?

Or how about me? I am 41 and have no children and most probably will not have any, is my life of less value should it continue this way?
Should I go back to the GF who had no interest in me but was desperate for a father to her future child? Would that be more fulfilling?

Or how about those that have 4 children versus those that have 1? Are the former 4 times more fulfilled that the latter?

Or what about those whose children who go on as adults to commit horrific crimes and inflict pain and suffering on others? Do those people reach the end of their days satisfied and content that they fulfilled their purpose irrespective of the impact on others as a consequence?

Many parents express great joy through raising their children (including my own) but to suggest it is the only guarantee of any sense of meaning in our lives is horsesh*t.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 27-05-2020 9:18pm

Tell me how wrote: »

You absolutely cannot guarantee this.
What is a persons purpose? To procreate? Why then just have one or some children with one partner, surely to optimise that purpose it would be to have as many children as possible.

We are all most likely accidental beings struggling to identify a purpose to lessen the turmoil we have as a result of conscious thought.

For many, caring for their offspring is the purpose which they align themselves with either consciously or otherwise and good for them.

But what then for those without children? Are they lesser beings for being so? Angela Merkel has led her country for 20 years and has no children, would she have fulfilled a greater purpose had she sought to have a child and not consider a role in politics (not that they are mutually exclusive)?

Or how about me? I am 41 and have no children and most probably will not have any, is my life of less value should it continue this way?
Should I go back to the GF who had no interest in me but was desperate for a father to her future child? Would that be more fulfilling?

Or how about those that have 4 children versus those that have 1? Are the former 4 times more fulfilled that the latter?

Or what about those whose children who go on as adults to commit horrific crimes and inflict pain and suffering on others? Do those people reach the end of their days satisfied and content that they fulfilled their purpose irrespective of the impact on others as a consequence?

Many parents express great joy through raising their children (including my own) but to suggest it is the only guarantee of any sense of meaning in our lives is horsesh*t.

Hear, hear! Well said!

Roger the cabin boy · 27-05-2020 9:20pm

Tell me how wrote: »

You absolutely cannot guarantee this.
What is a persons purpose? To procreate? Why then just have one or some children with one partner, surely to optimise that purpose it would be to have as many children as possible.

We are all most likely accidental beings struggling to identify a purpose to lessen the turmoil we have as a result of conscious thought.

For many, caring for their offspring is the purpose which they align themselves with either consciously or otherwise and good for them.

But what then for those without children? Are they lesser beings for being so? Angela Merkel has led her country for 20 years and has no children, would she have fulfilled a greater purpose had she sought to have a child and not consider a role in politics (not that they are mutually exclusive)?

Or how about me? I am 41 and have no children and most probably will not have any, is my life of less value should it continue this way?
Should I go back to the GF who had no interest in me but was desperate for a father to her future child? Would that be more fulfilling?

Or how about those that have 4 children versus those that have 1? Are the former 4 times more fulfilled that the latter?

Or what about those whose children who go on as adults to commit horrific crimes and inflict pain and suffering on others? Do those people reach the end of their days satisfied and content that they fulfilled their purpose irrespective of the impact on others as a consequence?

Many parents express great joy through raising their children (including my own) but to suggest it is the only guarantee of any sense of meaning in our lives is horsesh*t.

I agree with much you say but, I don't think anyone is saying the meaning of life is just to have kids and to not do so is a waste of it.

My point, is that to not have children because it's hard and requires effort and sacrifice is hollow, deeply so and I would think you would know this as you grow old. It would eat at you.

In the OPs instance, what happens in 10 years if he chooses to not have kids now, only for the adoption door to slam shut in his face in 10 years? How is that going to rest with him as he ponders the fact that he sacrificed Parenthood because things are not peachy ATM?

That would eat at me badly.

What is the meaning of life? To enjoy yourself to the sacrifice of everything and everyone else? Urgh, sounds like eternal torment to me.
How about the meaning of live is to make an effort for someone or something other than you and that you leave the world in a better state than when you arrived?

So if doing that means you having children and throwing all of you into parenting, how much more satisfaction and meaning does one need?

27-05-2020 9:22pm

"Tell wrote:

Or how about me? I am 41 and have no children and most probably will not have any, is my life of less value should it continue this way?

.

Well, kind of..in 100 years like, unless you contribute something major to humanity there will be nothing left of you..no one will remember you..

Had you a couple of children there could be 50 people in existence because of you.. who, if they looked back their family tree they'd find you..

Galwayguy35 · 27-05-2020 9:28pm

No happy enough with no offspring.

Mid 40s now so I think its too late to become a daddy.

FVP3 · 27-05-2020 9:32pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Better-Angels-Our-Nature-Violence/dp/0141034645/ref=sr_1_1?crid=VZAPROT11X2N&dchild=1&keywords=better+angels+of+our+nature+pinker&qid=1590593411&sprefix=better+ang%2Caps%2C167&sr=8-1

Well the best time to be alive is not the peak, when it might go downhill, but just before the peak and approaching it. The baby boomers probably lived in the best time, at least for the West. Although they did have the cold war over their heads. for Europe and the US the best times are probably in the past.

lozenges · 27-05-2020 9:33pm

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

I agree with much you say but, I don't think anyone is saying the meaning of life is just to have kids and to not do so is a waste of it.

My point, is that to not have children because it's hard and requires effort and sacrifice is hollow, deeply so and I would think you would know this as you grow old. It would eat at you.

In the OPs instance, what happens in 10 years if he chooses to not have kids now, only for the adoption door to slam shut in his face in 10 years? How is that going to rest with him as he ponders the fact that he sacrificed Parenthood because things are not peachy ATM?

That would eat at me badly.

What is the meaning of life? To enjoy yourself to the sacrifice of everything and everyone else? Urgh, sounds like eternal torment to me.
How about the meaning of live is to make an effort for someone or something other than you and that you leave the world in a better state than when you arrived?

So if doing that means you having children and throwing all of you into parenting, how much more satisfaction and meaning does one need?

A lot of people would argue that in terms of sustainability, resource consumption, population and climate change the world would be in a better state if fewer people decide to have children.

As for sacrifices -making sacrifices that you don't really want to make is how resentment happens.
Also, you can do unselfish things for other people (partner, community etc), it doesn't have to always be about children.

Sky King · 27-05-2020 9:35pm

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

You can reach the end of your days childless, but financially rich, having led a carefree life but I guarantee you, that it will feel hollow and empty.

LOL. This reminds me of Moe from the Simpsons.

" From the day they're born to the day they die they THINK that they are happy, but trust me, they ain't!"

Thelonious Monk · 27-05-2020 9:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, kind of..in 100 years like, unless you contribute something major to humanity there will be nothing left of you..no one will remember you..

Had you a couple of children there could be 50 people in existence because of you.. who, if they looked back their family tree they'd find you..

And? I can't name any of my great grandparents.

27-05-2020 9:45pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

And? I can't name any of my great grandparents.

Yeah, but you wouldn't be here unless they had procreated..

Aren't you thankful they did?..

lozenges · 27-05-2020 9:48pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

And? I can't name any of my great grandparents.

Absolutely. What does it matter if your name is forgotten in 10 years, 100 years or 1000 years? You're dead, you're not going to know about it. It's also a bit narcissistic.

I'd rather have my legacy be something that benefits others than have people remember my name. Say a charity donation in my will, teach students something useful. That kind of thing.

pinkyeye · 27-05-2020 9:48pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Also nobody with kids is ever going to say they regret having kids.

Not true, there have been various times in my life when I've regretted having kids and freely admitted it.

Now they are adults though I've gotten over that feeling.

Doesn't mean either point of view is wrong. Some people think they can't go without them and some people think they can. That's fine, people are different.

The real problems arise however when two people in a couple have opposing views. That can't cause real problems.

If both people in the couple are happy with where they are then happy days.

pinkyeye · 27-05-2020 9:53pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't understand this reason for having kids, is it that people believe their children will look after them when they are old?
That's a terrible selfish reason for having them!
When I am old, too old to be alone, I will spend money to be somewhere I don't have to be alone. If I want /need that. & I will pay for it myself.
Seems very bad to expect your kids to look after you!

That's not the point of it at all for me bubbly. The point is when you're older the people who will love you unconditionally will be your children if your parents and siblings are dead.

To me that's very precious right now. My parents are still alive but barely, when they go I know that my kids will still be there hopefully until I die (don't want any of them to go before me).

Friends are all well and good as are lovers, partners etc. but they do not love you unconditionally.

Selfish thought maybe, but it's not one I thought of when I had them, just one I've realised now that they're adults.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 27-05-2020 9:58pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Friends are all well and good as are lovers, partners etc. but they do not love you unconditionally.

Kids don't love their parents unconditionally. I have nothing to do with my Father and don't even think of him as a parent. I don't wish him any harm, but I also don't care for him as a person, and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if I never saw him again.

notsoyoungwan · 27-05-2020 9:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, kind of..in 100 years like, unless you contribute something major to humanity there will be nothing left of you..no one will remember you..

Had you a couple of children there could be 50 people in existence because of you.. who, if they looked back their family tree they'd find you..

So what if someone isn’t ‘remembered’ in 100 years time? They’ll be long dead, it won’t bother them. And anyway, family trees generally include aunts, uncles and extended family anyway.

But what’s the value in knowing that in 100 years time someone will do a bit of research and say “oh ok, my great grandmother was called notsoyoungwan and lived in place X”. Where’s the deep meaning and satisfaction in that? What’s so wonderful about it? It’s quite narcissistic to think you don’t want to be forgotten for generations.

Everyone who is alive is making a difference to others in some way. It can be by positive enriching fulfilling relationships with parents, siblings, friends; it can be through work; it can be a number of ways.

I’m a hospital consultant. At this stage I’ve treated literally thousands of patients and it’s likely I’ll treat thousands more during my career. I know I have made a huge difference to thousands of people, to their quality of life, and there are people alive today because I treated them. That’s immensely fulfilling and rewarding. There is meaning and fulfilment to be found in many different places.

Tell me how · 27-05-2020 10:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, kind of..in 100 years like, unless you contribute something major to humanity there will be nothing left of you..no one will remember you..

Had you a couple of children there could be 50 people in existence because of you.. who, if they looked back their family tree they'd find you..

So what?

My mother always said 'look after the living'. I would rather people put more effort in to being nice to the people they meet and interact with on a daily basis irrespective of the relationship with them rather than being focused on someone who died 100 years earlier or who might be alive in 100 years time.

notsoyoungwan · 27-05-2020 10:03pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

That's not the point of it at all for me bubbly. The point is when you're older the people who will love you unconditionally will be your children if your parents and siblings are dead.

To me that's very precious right now. My parents are still alive but barely, when they go I know that my kids will still be there hopefully until I die (don't want any of them to go before me).

Friends are all well and good as are lovers, partners etc. but they do not love you unconditionally.

Selfish thought maybe, but it's not one I thought of when I had them, just one I've realised now that they're adults.

Kids love you unconditionally? Not necessarily. My parents raised a large family and more than one of my siblings has treated them badly and not been there when they needed them- young kids may live their parents unconditionally but they grow into adults and some of those adults are not nice people and are quite selfish. I’ve seen so many elderly people whose children don’t treat them well at all.

DrPhilG · 27-05-2020 10:04pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

People who look at child free people and give them the condescending "poor you, having kids is the only true happiness, what an empty existence you must have" are assholes.

And right on cue...

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

You can reach the end of your days childless, but financially rich, having led a carefree life but I guarantee you, that it will feel hollow and empty.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 27-05-2020 10:07pm

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

Kids love you unconditionally? Not necessarily. My parents raised a large family and more than one of my siblings has treated them badly and not been there when they needed them- young kids may live their parents unconditionally but they grow into adults and some of those adults are not nice people and are quite selfish. I’ve seen so many elderly people whose children don’t treat them well at all.

Some parents are also not nice people and quite selfish, and don't treat their children well.

It works both ways. Don't just single out the kids. Many have legitimate reasons for disowning their parents.

notsoyoungwan · 27-05-2020 10:09pm

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

Some parents are also not nice people and quite selfish, and don't treat their children well.

It works both ways. Don't just single out the kids. Many have legitimate reasons for disowning their parents.

I’ve no doubt that’s the case. But my post was in response to someone who was saying having kids was great cos they’ll love you unconditionally. I was merely pointing out that that’s just not true.

joe40 · 27-05-2020 10:11pm

I hope my kids maintain contact as they grow into adulthood. Teens now, but that also depends to an extent on the relationship I develop and nurture with them.
In terms of looking after me in old age that should not be their obligation.

pinkyeye · 27-05-2020 10:17pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

From a biological standpoint, it is the only reason to exist. We live and multiply and continue on the human race.

That's an absolutely ridiculous point to make!

It is not the only reason we exist. Every single person in this world has a purpose and leaves behind some legacy, that doesn't have to be children.

In fact if I'm honest (and I'm a parent), the people who aren't parents probably leave behind bigger legacies. Like the greatest scientists, inventors, business people in the world are most likely not to be parents.

Even those who aren't the greatest at whatever field there in make huge impacts in the world. Like animal lovers, charitable people etc. EVERYONE leaves a legacy.

JustAThought · 27-05-2020 10:18pm

I wonder how many women secretly regret having married their husbands and having their children - I know at least two who bitterly lament their decisions . I wonder how many of the wimen who spend their whole day absent frim and intentionally away from their children would give them up or turn back the clock if they feasibly could.

I also know men who have abandoned their families and children and walked out on them, giving little for their keep and staying as far away from any contact as possible - including Birthdays and Christmasses.

People deciding after the fact or first few
years that children are not for them are hidden in plain sight everywhere “. Most of them are just not particularly honest about it and hide behind the cliches of adoring and best thing ever - but in fact they spend the absolute minimum of time theyncan get away with in exposing themselves to and engaging with their children and spend every wKing hour choosing to work, doing a work commute and having as little contact with or to do with upbringing and nurturing their children as possible.

the_syco · 27-05-2020 10:20pm

s1ippy wrote: »

We are erring on the side of not, because we feel that society is absolute squalor and couldn't reconcile bringing a child into it.

Society is always "absolute squalor". Some people find bringing a child into it gives life meaning.

s1ippy wrote: »

To people who are sure they aren't having children, what are your reasons?

No patience for them.

SEPT 23 1989 · 27-05-2020 10:23pm

joe40 wrote: »

I hope my kids maintain contact as they grow into adulthood. Teens now, but that also depends to an extent on the relationship I develop and nurture with them.
In terms of looking after me in old age that should not be their obligation.

I will look after my parents if it comes to that and I hope I have brought my children up right that they will look after me when hopefully it doesn't come to that

Mam of 4 · 27-05-2020 10:24pm

I don't think many , if any , expect their children to look after them in old age tbh . What I do think is that they/we hope that our grown children would be the ones to have our best interests at heart if it ever came to a point that we couldn't make cognitive decisions ourselves .

Although I do think that's a conversation that should be had before it ever gets to that point .

Thelonious Monk · 27-05-2020 10:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, but you wouldn't be here unless they had procreated..

Aren't you thankful they did?..

No, I'm not thankful. If I wasn't here I wouldn't know I wasn't here. Any muppet can get someone pregnant. Should I be getting everyone I possibly can pregnant now so future people exist and can thank me for it?

pinkyeye · 27-05-2020 10:25pm

Sky King wrote: »

Reasons to not have kids - my god where do I start. It's the most narcissistic selfish thing you can do.

How about how immoral it is to put more resourse consuming people on our already overpopulated planet - and here in the western world kids consume WAY more resourses than elsewhere.

Or how about how immoral it is to inflict this human condition on some person without asking their permission, just to satisfy your own need for 'fulfillment'. Putting people here to have more people to have more people... it's the most pointless exercise ever.

Even healthy kids are annoying at the best of times, then don't get me started on all the 5hit that could be wrong with them... They could have some disability or disorder or chronic illness that requires constant care. Or be really annoying like that autistic kid on the TV who screeches and bangs his head on the wall. Or (far more likely) they could turn out to be complete assholes despite your best efforts.

Or the kids could turn out to be great adults and just fukc off an leave you like what happened to a friend of mine's mam - she's divorced and her kids ****ed off to Asia for years and left her on her own. What a waste of a youth raising them so 'you'll have them when you are old'.

Jesus, what a sad outlook to have on life.

riclad · 27-05-2020 10:27pm

We are facing into the worst depression since the 80s We have maybe ten years left to stop global warming before it becomes irreversible and makes much of the earth impossible to live on. EG too hot and too dry with limited access to water. We have giant corporations paying little tax by having an office in Luxembourg or some tax haven. We have leaders like trump and putin
who spread fake news and seem to mostly care about the rich and corporations who can donate to their relection. Every day some company announces 1000,s of layoffs
Good luck to you if you want to have children
I can understand why someone who is not well off or on a high salary would be reluctant to have children

The birth rate in America is very low at the moment I read an article it costs 30k to give
birth in an American hospital having children in
America is expensive childcare is expensive
I grew up in the 80s. People were optimistic
things were getting better people did not
worry about global warming or high rents
Anyone who had a full time job could buy a house Now rents are high houses prices are high young people are under pressure to save up for a deposit while paying high rents
It's up to each person to decide if they wish to have children I notice people have maybe one or 2 children no one seems to have 3 or 4 children any more If some couple decides to not have children in the present economic situation I think its understandable

27-05-2020 10:28pm

JustAThought wrote: »

I wonder how many women secretly regret having married their husbands and having their children - I know at least two who bitterly lament their decisions . I wonder how many of the wimen who spend their whole day absent frim and intentionally away from their children would give them up or turn back the clock if they feasibly could.

I also know men who have abandoned their families and children and walked out on them, giving little for their keep and staying as far away from any contact as possible - including Birthdays and Christmasses.

People deciding after the fact or first few
years that children are not for them are hidden in plain sight everywhere “. Most of them are just not particularly honest about it and hide behind the cliches of adoring and best thing ever - but in fact they spend the absolute minimum of time theyncan get away with in exposing themselves to and engaging with their children and spend every wKing hour choosing to work, doing a work commute and having as little contact with or to do with upbringing and nurturing their children as possible.

Exactly this! It is not the words people speak it is their actions. People trying to constantly fob off childminding to everyone other than themselves is where I see regret in some people who had children.

4Ad · 27-05-2020 10:33pm

I unfortunately dont have kids ( 52)..
Wish I had. Myself and my ex did try, nothing physically wrong, just didn't work out..
I don't dwell upon it too much.
Kind of worried who's gonna mind me when I get older, I'll cross that when I get older..hmm

Divorced now, I really do think not having children put a strain on the marriage...

SEPT 23 1989 · 27-05-2020 10:33pm

Mam of 4 wrote: »

I don't think many , if any , expect their children to look after them in old age tbh . What I do think is that they/we hope that our grown children would be the ones to have our best interests at heart if it ever came to a point that we couldn't make cognitive decisions ourselves .

Although I do think that's a conversation that should be had before it ever gets to that point .

The last thing we want is our children to have to look after us but if it happens I hope I have brought them up to know they will be there

Roger the cabin boy · 27-05-2020 10:34pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Jesus, what a sad outlook to have on life.

This whole thread is rather depressing

pinkyeye · 27-05-2020 10:46pm

You know what would make this society less of a "squalor"? If people stopped criticising each other for their choices and stopped making judgements about each other.

Some people have children, some people don't. It's not a competition. :rolleyes:

EmmetSpiceland · 27-05-2020 10:54pm

I pray my kids don’t have to look after me in my old age.

Hopefully, by then we’ll have voluntary euthanasia and I can sign myself up as soon as I can’t look after myself.

I’m not talking about “assisted living” or having a helper, that’s fine. I mean full on dependancy. I think I’d feel that way with, or without, kids.

I should also point out that all that “legacy” or “a part of you living on” shíte is nonsense. We’ll all be a lost digital print in two generations, just like our great-grandparents are yellowing in an old photograph locked in a box somewhere.

Mr_Muffin · 27-05-2020 10:56pm

It's a gamble. How do you really know you won't enjoy being a parent unless you become one?

Mam of 4 · 27-05-2020 10:58pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The last thing we want is our children to have to look after us but if it happens I hope I have brought them up to know they will be there

Likewise here , it's a conversation we've already had , each one of them or all of them collectively would look after me in a heartbeat .
Not going to happen if i ever become so incapacitated as not to be able to look after myself and they know that . My decision at the end of the day .

Wanderer19 · 27-05-2020 11:02pm

I feel guilty bringing two children into this world. Global warming, country is so badly managed, cost of housing, overpopulated. Lack of a good education or healthcare system. Places of natural beauty/historical interest being shut/restricted to the public. I can definitely understand why others wouldn't want children.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 27-05-2020 11:04pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I pray my kids don’t have to look after me in my old age.

Hopefully, by then we’ll have voluntary euthanasia and I can sign myself up as soon as I can’t look after myself.

I’m not talking about “assisted living” or having a helper, that’s fine. I mean full on dependancy. I think I’d feel that way with, or without, kids.

I should also point out that all that “legacy” or “a part of you living on” shíte is nonsense. We’ll all be a lost digital print in two generations, just like our great-grandparents are yellowing in an old photograph locked in a box somewhere.

I hate the idea of anybody having to "look after me". Once I'm no longer able to care for myself or I feel my quality of life has deteriorated to the point that I no longer wish to go on, I hope that euthanasia will legally be an option and I can opt out when the time comes. We see it as a kindness to put animals, especially family pets, down, yet we force elderly relatives to live on until the bitter end even though alzheimers or whatever has long since devoured the person that was once there, which I personally think is cruel, especially when someone has previously expressed that they never want to live once they've reached that state.

jester77 · 27-05-2020 11:06pm

Wanderer19 wrote: »

I feel guilty bringing two children into this world. Global warming, country is so badly managed, cost of housing, overpopulated. Lack of a good education or healthcare system. Places of natural beauty/historical interest being shut/restricted to the public. I can definitely understand why others wouldn't want children.

Emigration will always be there. It's what I did, and when I see the lifestyle my kids have here in Germany compared to in Ireland, I don't see myself returning.

27-05-2020 11:07pm

I have 4.
Let me tell you
I cant imagine life without them they are beautiful, inside and out, curious loving gentle. Half of me and half of the man I love, perfectly together.
Let me tell you
Some days I can imagine life without them, they are messy, loud, brats.
My money isn't mine anymore I work to feed and entertain them. I'm certain I could have ruled the world had I not had them.
But I love watching them grow, shaping them into goodness and all those things, I want them to achieve more and all they can.
I work so hard to provide it.
So to answer your question.. You'll regret(what ifs) having them some days, for want of a better word, and you'll regret not having them.
Flip a coin

c.p.w.g.w · 27-05-2020 11:11pm

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

I hate the idea of anybody having to "look after me". Once I'm no longer able to care for myself or I feel my quality of life has deteriorated to the point that I no longer wish to go on, that euthanasia will legally be an option and I can opt out when the time comes. We see it as a kindness to put animals, especially family pets, down, yet we force elderly relatives to live on until the bitter end even though alzheimers or whatever has long since devoured the person that was once there, which I personally think is cruel, especially when someone has previously expressed that they never want to live once they've reached that state.

A buddy of mine has a plan to just take a cocktail of drugs when he gets too old...he watched his grandfather suffer for years with zero quality of life, literally being pumped full of drugs to just keep him alive...how is that considered humane

joe40 · 27-05-2020 11:16pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The last thing we want is our children to have to look after us but if it happens I hope I have brought them up to know they will be there

What if they're living in a different country or even miles away in Ireland.
My kids aren't an old age insurance policy. And if they're not in a position to help it is no reflection on them. I want them to live their own lives.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 27-05-2020 11:19pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

A buddy of mine has a plan to just take a cocktail of drugs when he gets too old...he watched his grandfather suffer for years with zero quality of life, literally being pumped full of drugs to just keep him alive...how is that considered humane

Yeah, that's definitely my Plan B alright. Although there are places in Scandanavia and some of the more open-minded European Countries where Assisted Euthanasia is an option, so that would be the ideal situation. I fear the cocktail of drugs you would throw together yourself wouldn't work properly and you'd end up being revived and spend the rest of your days on life support or something which would be just as awful. With legal Euthanasia at least you know the job will br done.

c.p.w.g.w · 27-05-2020 11:21pm

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

Yeah, that's definitely my Plan B alright. Although there are places in Scandanavia and some of the more open-minded European Countries where Assisted Euthanasia is an option, so that would be the ideal situation. I fear the cocktail of drugs you would throw together yourself wouldn't work properly and you'd end up being revived and spend the rest of your days on life support or something which would be just as awful. With legal Euthanasia at least you know the job will br done.

He has an extensive experience of illicit drugs in fairness to him...But legal euthanasia i hope becomes an option soon

4Ad · 27-05-2020 11:25pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

A buddy of mine has a plan to just take a cocktail of drugs when he gets too old...he watched his grandfather suffer for years with zero quality of life, literally being pumped full of drugs to just keep him alive...how is that considered humane

Stockpiling my Stilnoct..
A good handful of them should work.
(And I'm not joking)..hopefully years away..

dartboardio · 27-05-2020 11:26pm

I'm young and although I don't really 'like' children at the moment, I definitely want them down the line.

My main reasons would be that I grew up an only child and would love to have a busy home, with people running in and out all day.

A big family around at Christmas time, when you grow old, etc.

Id like to have at least two/or three when I'm older.

I can't think of any other reason other than I suppose I'd hate to grow old and never have a family around me. Ill never be an aunt as I have no siblings so I definitely want kids.

Although I'd be pretty old fashioned in my thinking so would love the idea of a 'husband and 4 kids' and would think if I didn't have children I'd see myself as odd

I completely understand and see how a life could be great without kids, but I'd feel like I was missing out for sure if I never had them.

s1ippy · 27-05-2020 11:29pm

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

Yeah, that's definitely my Plan B alright. Although there are places in Scandanavia and some of the more open-minded European Countries where Assisted Euthanasia is an option, so that would be the ideal situation. I fear the cocktail of drugs you would throw together yourself wouldn't work properly and you'd end up being revived and spend the rest of your days on life support or something which would be just as awful. With legal Euthanasia at least you know the job will br done.

It's quite mad that we don't have legal euthanasia and that people are reduced to suffering to the absolute death naturally. I've been lobbying my TDs for it since my grandmother developed MRSA in a nursing home recently.

My argument is that surely she deserves to be assisted in dying with dignity, seeing as she was given her death sentence by one of the nursing home staff. It's like a slow-motion murder we're all going to be watching in graphic detail. She is 100% completely lucid and aware of her pain every day at the moment. A person with an ounce of compassion wouldn't allow this suffering to happen to an insect.

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

It's a gamble. How do you really know you won't enjoy being a parent unless you become one?

How do you know you'll develop a heroin addiction unless you try it? There's no going back, so some people take a different path and that's fine too. A life without children can be imbued with tremendous meaning as well.

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

This whole thread is rather depressing

You were saying people should 100% have kids! Have you never before now considered the pitfalls and risks involved in bringing lives into the world, given the fact that "depressing" is a word you use to describe a pragmatic discussion on the future? If life was free of sadness then the joy wouldn't feel as sweet. Yin and yang.

Mam of 4 wrote: »

I don't think many , if any , expect their children to look after them in old age tbh . What I do think is that they/we hope that our grown children would be the ones to have our best interests at heart if it ever came to a point that we couldn't make cognitive decisions ourselves .

Although I do think that's a conversation that should be had before it ever gets to that point .

Surely between the four of them they'd manage it!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, kind of..in 100 years like, unless you contribute something major to humanity there will be nothing left of you..no one will remember you..

Had you a couple of children there could be 50 people in existence because of you.. who, if they looked back their family tree they'd find you..

That is a strange outlook, a lot of people on this thread could do with exercising a bit more consideration before telling people straight out that their lives are meaningless, as Dr Phil said.

People contribute to the earth in all sorts of subtle ways, without having to cure coronavirus or discover a chemical element. Just because someone hasn't had children, they'll be lost to the annals of time..? As many others said, I don't know who my great grandmother was, so by your logic it was a waste of time that she spent her life rearing children because she's forgotten now.

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

What's the point if you just spend your days eating grapes and only pretending at continuing the species?

I apologise for nothing!

Tell me how · 27-05-2020 11:39pm

s1ippy wrote: »

It's quite mad that we don't have legal euthanasia and that people are reduced to suffering to the absolute death naturally. I've been lobbying my TDs for it since my grandmother developed MRSA in a nursing home recently.

My argument is that surely she deserves to be assisted in dying with dignity, seeing as she was given her death sentence by one of the nursing home staff. It's like a slow-motion murder we're all going to be watching in graphic detail. She is 100% completely lucid and aware of her pain every day at the moment. A person with an ounce of compassion wouldn't allow this suffering to happen to an insect.

This reads eerily like you have decided that euthanasia is the right path for your grandmother which is one of the main reasons why it is still illegal apart from exceptional cases in some locations.

I can easily see how it could lead to exploitation of older people who have someone whispering in their ear that now is the time or that the have a moment of weakness themselves and make a decision which there is no coming back from.

Where do you decide that they can have no quality of life or that it is not significantly less than what they were used to which you couldn't also make for a 50 year old who can no longer play sport or run around like they were a teenager?

Completely Put Off Having Children

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