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Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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    #62
    stoplooklisten
    Registered Users Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭stoplooklisten


    Green Peter wrote: »
    No commissioner or minister for justice could stand over that and justify it and they would not leave themselves open to the allegation, I think there has to be some statement or interaction on file that covers the man's alibi. I don't know who he is but no one is that untouchable. Can the op tell us what the Garda have stated as their reason for no interviewing him (current commissioner)?

    The investigating gardai at the time are interviewed in this trailer for Gemma O dotherty's documentry


    Check out from 4.39, but the whole thing is worth watching


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    #63
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Green Peter wrote: »
    Mentioned in statements! What is the evidence? Are there witnesses to him with the child or in the area, did he make a statement to the investigators at any stage?

    Are there witnesses to him with the child in the area? Yes numerous , this is a fact he was in the area it isnt even a doubt.

    Did he make a statement to the gards? Not officially as stated above they have never been allowed to arrest him , but off the record he has almost blurted it out to them and sat crying when asked, but again they were under strict orders not to arrest ,

    The information is out there open your eyes and look and I wont be answering you any more with these type of questions, my twitter is full of people trying to trip me up into ruining the whole case by intefering with due process by naming names , some of them are establishe journalists who definitley know better

    and again ill reiterate we are not a lynching mob we are a family looking for justice for a 6 year old child buried on a bog like an animal and I dont like your comment one bit that we are a lynch mob , do you still stand by this comment?


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    #64
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Green Peter wrote: »
    No commissioner or minister for justice could stand over that and justify it and they would not leave themselves open to the allegation, I think there has to be some statement or interaction on file that covers the man's alibi. I don't know who he is but no one is that untouchable. Can the op tell us what the Garda have stated as their reason for no interviewing him (current commissioner)?

    I am not the OP but I assume you are referring to me, maybe its time to start believing that such things are possible

    The gards havent ever gave any reason, the 2 retired gards who were both on the case have both said on record & in statements to the gards that it was due to one politician in particular intefering with the case and directing that the main suspect not be arressted . What do u think 2 retired gards have fo make out of doing this?


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    #65
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,030 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    This is the Donegal of 20 years ago we are talking about... Wasn't there a tribunal or something?

    This scandal must have been well below the radar when the terms of reference were being drawn up.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #66
    Green Peter
    Registered Users Posts: 947 ✭✭✭Green Peter


    stoplooklisten wrote:
    The investigators weren't allowed to ask him for a formal statement.They were told to look elsewhere.


    By who?


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    #67
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Green Peter wrote: »
    By who?

    It is claimed a politician contacted the guards to ask that individuals were not questioned.
    There was also a claim nade a while back about members of the public being allowed access to daily briefings/meetings.
    This deserves a serious looking at, and then the case of Niall Molloy can be looked at.
    People should spend less time talking about Making a Murderer on face book and focused on their own decrepid back yard.


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    #68
    Green Peter
    Registered Users Posts: 947 ✭✭✭Green Peter


    oranbhoy67 wrote:
    The information is out there open your eyes and look and I wont be answering you any more with these type of questions, my twitter is full of people trying to trip me up into ruining the whole case by intefering with due process by naming names , some of them are establishe journalists who definitley know better


    You wont answer any more questions! People trying to trip you up! Why don't you take a civil case against this man if there is so much evidence and force it into the courts.


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    #69
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Green Peter wrote: »
    You wont answer any more questions! People trying to trip you up! Why don't you take a civil case against this man if there is so much evidence and force it into the courts.

    ill answer questions that won't potentially affect the course of due process in the case of a Legal trial. half the stuff you are asking is in the documentary trailer above or on other articles posted , im sure my cousins lawyer have looked at that, ill ask her if they have, the Department of Justice have told her to get onto the Donegal County coroner to open a new inquest on the death so i have contacted him and urged him to try and do so ASAP .


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    #70
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    When is the full documentary being released and where?


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    #71
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Car99 wrote: »
    When is the full documentary being released and where?
    it is scheduled to be released this month and I know itll be free to watch so im guessing youtube, but cant confirm that
    Ill post any more info about it here as soon as I hear any .


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    #72
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Regarding the excavation to search for remains in 2013-

    To the untrained eye the use of a mechanical digger to excavate ground might seem a very crude way to search for human remains. In practice, it is the only way such searches can be carried out over a wide area given the limitations imposed by both time and resources. Archaeologists use these machines all the time to uncover sites and or human remains. In Ireland, the Independent Commission for the Location of Victims Remains (the organisation established to search for the disappeared from The Troubles) use mechanical excavators to search for human remains. The link below shows the ICLVR using track machines to search for victims remains.
    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2015/03/13/4036331-excavation-work-continues-in-search-for-ira-victim/

    Prior to excavation the Gardaí would have consulted with a forensic archaeologist (or anthropologist if your American) to establish a methodology for excavating the possible burial site. The forensic archaeologist would also have been present to monitor the machine being used to excavate. The machine would not be allowed to dig deeply into the site, instead it would be used to slowly peel back the soil/peat. A forensic archaeologist with the right training and experience would be able to immediately identify human remains.

    The fact that a scan of the site showed a possible burial location should not be taken as definitive evidence that there was a grave here. They appear to have used Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) to carry out their survey. Conditions on the ground greatly influence the accuracy of a GPR survey. It is particularly difficult to find small features such as a grave in peat/bog/wetland, that's why the ICLVR use track machines to open large areas of ground rather than rely on GPR or geophysical surveys. Many of the disappeared were buried in bogs. Also, the three men who reported the possible grave said the ground here had been freshly dug which was what drew their attention. This digging may account for the result returned by the GPR survey.

    However, there is the possibility that in the 30+ year period between the reporting of the possible burial site and the excavation that a body may have been moved.


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    #73
    rucksack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭rucksack


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    . Also, the three men who reported the possible grave said the ground here had been freshly dug which was what drew their attention. This digging may account for the result returned by the GPR survey..
    But the GPR survey was over 30 years later. It was when she went missing first the three men reported to possible grave


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    #74
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    rucksack wrote: »
    But the GPR survey was over 30 years later. It was when she went missing first the three men reported to possible grave

    I can't give any explanation as to why the possible grave was not searched before 2013.


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    #75
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    Regarding the excavation to search for remains in 2013-

    To the untrained eye the use of a mechanical digger to excavate ground might seem a very crude way to search for human remains. In practice, it is the only way such searches can be carried out over a wide area given the limitations imposed by both time and resources. Archaeologists use these machines all the time to uncover sites and or human remains. In Ireland, the Independent Commission for the Location of Victims Remains (the organisation established to search for the disappeared from The Troubles) use mechanical excavators to search for human remains. The link below shows the ICLVR using track machines to search for victims remains.
    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2015/03/13/4036331-excavation-work-continues-in-search-for-ira-victim/

    Prior to excavation the Gardaí would have consulted with a forensic archaeologist (or anthropologist if your American) to establish a methodology for excavating the possible burial site. The forensic archaeologist would also have been present to monitor the machine being used to excavate. The machine would not be allowed to dig deeply into the site, instead it would be used to slowly peel back the soil/peat. A forensic archaeologist with the right training and experience would be able to immediately identify human remains.

    The fact that a scan of the site showed a possible burial location should not be taken as definitive evidence that there was a grave here. They appear to have used Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) to carry out their survey. Conditions on the ground greatly influence the accuracy of a GPR survey. It is particularly difficult to find small features such as a grave in peat/bog/wetland, that's why the ICLVR use track machines to open large areas of ground rather than rely on GPR or geophysical surveys. Many of the disappeared were buried in bogs. Also, the three men who reported the possible grave said the ground here had been freshly dug which was what drew their attention. This digging may account for the result returned by the GPR survey.

    However, there is the possibility that in the 30+ year period between the reporting of the possible burial site and the excavation that a body may have been moved.

    thanks very much for that useful and very detailed info !


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    #76
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    The ombudsman is investigating , hopefully he (they?) manages to do something but we have so little faith left with the Gardai & the state that it's hard to muster up any enthusiasm at the same time
    We'll have to wait and see what they have to say on the issue. It's just hard to know how serious they'll take it if there isn't a media frenzy forcing them to give answers.
    stoplooklisten wrote: »
    The investigating gardai at the time are interviewed in this trailer for Gemma O dotherty's documentry


    Check out from 4.39, but the whole thing is worth watching
    Jayz, a 10 minutes "trailer". It's going to be hard to get people to watch a trailer that long.
    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    Did he make a statement to the gards? Not officially as stated above they have never been allowed to arrest him , but off the record he has almost blurted it out to them and sat crying when asked, but again they were under strict orders not to arrest ,
    Politicians have no authority to instruct guards how to investigate, so they wouldn't be able to say that officially.

    My problem with this is that I'm also from a small town, I know how quickly stories can grow legs and take on a life of their own. It shocking how willing we Irish are to tell a story we know is an exaggeration and just forget we heard a different story yesterday. I'm not trying to insult anybody by saying that. It's just that I know it's going to be very hard to extract the truth from all the humor at this stage, which makes it doubly hard for everybody involved because they just don't know what to believe, or who to trust.

    That's why I'd very much like to see a proper investigation by someone that knows what they're doing. The gossip in a small town will create a lot of bias, and if the investigation is controlled by gossip someone will get lynched, it just more than likely won't be the real criminal.


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    #77
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Politicians have no authority to instruct guards how to investigate, so they wouldn't be able to say that officially.

    My problem with this is that I'm also from a small town, I know how quickly stories can grow legs and take on a life of their own. It shocking how willing we Irish are to tell a story we know is an exaggeration and just forget we heard a different story yesterday. I'm not trying to insult anybody by saying that. It's just that I know it's going to be very hard to extract the truth from all the humor at this stage, which makes it doubly hard for everybody involved because they just don't know what to believe, or who to trust.

    That's why I'd very much like to see a proper investigation by someone that knows what they're doing. The gossip in a small town will create a lot of bias, and if the investigation is controlled by gossip someone will get lynched, it just more than likely won't be the real criminal.

    On your first note that is what is being alleged by the gardai on this case what happened in 1977.
    I know what you are getting at but wouldn't you agree that at the very least the man named by the twin, the 2 retired Gardai and other witnesses should be taken in for questioning?


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    #78
    honreal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 246 ✭✭honreal


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    On your first note that is what is being alleged by the gardai on this case what happened in 1977.
    I know what you are getting at but wouldn't you agree that at the very least the man named by the twin, the 2 retired Gardai and other witnesses should be taken in for questioning?


    Excuse my ignorance but surely all this person has to do is say "I don't remember, this was a long time ago" and then that leaves the Gardai with nothing against this man? evidence is key and without it it's one word against another.


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    #79
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    From today's Irish Times...
    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/mary-boyle-s-disappearance-and-the-40-year-fob-off-1.2637996


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    #80
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    honreal wrote: »
    Excuse my ignorance but surely all this person has to do is say "I don't remember, this was a long time ago" and then that leaves the Gardai with nothing against this man? evidence is key and without it it's one word against another.

    you are right.
    But in the past this man has come close to confessing just when asked informally, it is our belief that he will confess if questioned correctly and informally, there is, of course, no guarantee of that, but i don't think it is too much to ask after all the statements against him that he is taken in for questioning ?


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    #81
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    From today's Irish Times...
    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/mary-boyle-s-disappearance-and-the-40-year-fob-off-1.2637996

    great to see the recent revelations at last in the Irish media

    also audio interview here http://oceanfm.ie/call-for-inquest-into-death-of-missing-girl-mary-boyle-nwt-mon-9th-may/


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    #82
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/05/16/highly-suspect/


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    #83
    honreal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 246 ✭✭honreal


    http://www.thejournal.ie/mary-boyle-missing-case-2775396-May2016/

    Am i missing something here.......

    Fitzgerald said she understands that a Garda review team is “endeavouring to advance the investigation and that all avenues of inquiry are being fully being pursued”.

    She noted that two complaints in relation to the case have been investigated by the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission (GSOC), stating: “I am advised that no misbehaviour on the part of members of An Garda Síochána was identified by GSOC and the complainant was notified of these findings.”

    Surely GSOC are not playing a blind eye too.... perhaps this is not all it's being made out to be?


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    #84
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/apr/29/why-has-irelands-mainstream-media-turned-its-back-on-mary-boyle&num=1&prmd=ivn&strip=1&vwsrc=0

    Why is it that Gemma O Doherty and her stories which turn convention on its head are for some reason not being given the media coverage they deserve?

    http://m.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/gemma-odoherty-truth-about-fr-molloys-murder-will-rock-the-state-28904708.html


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    #85
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Latest statement from Marys twin sister

    Cj5Tb73XEAILdsc.jpg




    hopefully you can all see it let me know if you cannot and ill try & upload it some other way

    https://vimeo.com/168521340

    great updates here daily from the only journalist who gives a ****
    https://twitter.com/gemmaod1


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    #86
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    Latest statement from Marys twin sister

    Cj5Tb73XEAILdsc.jpg




    hopefully you can all see it let me know if you cannot and ill try & upload it some other way

    https://vimeo.com/168521340

    great updates here daily from the only journalist who gives a ****
    https://twitter.com/gemmaod1

    Interesting read. Cheers.


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    #87
    grind gremlin
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭grind gremlin


    SterlingArcher wrote: »
    Interesting read. Cheers.

    Looking forward to seeing the documentary after watching the trailer. Her poor family.....


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    #88
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    honreal wrote: »
    http://www.thejournal.ie/mary-boyle-missing-case-2775396-May2016/

    Am i missing something here.......




    Surely GSOC are not playing a blind eye too.... perhaps this is not all it's being made out to be?

    I suppose GSOC would be limited in what they could investigate, a problem too might be the time lapse.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #89
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Has the full documentary been released yet?


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    #90
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    jenny smith wrote: »
    Has the full documentary been released yet?

    Its in the last days - (hopefully Day) of Editing

    Ill post it here as soon as it is up online,

    again im not involved in the making the documentary but i do have contact with the makers and that is what they have told me today.

    Pat Flanagan has done a great opinion piece in the Irish Mirror today

    http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/states-first-reaction-sweep-dirt-8156771#ICID=sharebar_twitter


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    #91
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    Its in the last days - (hopefully Day) of Editing

    Ill post it here as soon as it is up online,

    again im not involved in the making the documentary but i do have contact with the makers and that is what they have told me today.

    Pat Flanagan has done a great opinion piece in the Irish Mirror today
    also a piece on irish tv dot ie donegal


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