Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

jenny smith

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vGORoCbpXw&feature=youtu.be on now

Thanks for that link.

I am a bit underwhelmed. Not much that was not known. i thought they intended to name the suspect with all the talk of legal threats

Jellybaby1

Naming anyone brings legal problems. It has to be done legally.

howamidifferent

Completely underwhelmed. No naming of any suspect. No naming of FF TD. Unless Gemma takes us all for mind readers it was a waste of an hour.

Jellybaby1

The title of this thread is "Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?". I don't remember this even being mentioned in the video.

Dolbert

howamidifferent wrote: »

Completely underwhelmed. No naming of any suspect. No naming of FF TD. Unless Gemma takes us all for mind readers it was a waste of an hour.

It's extremely obvious who they're talking about in fairness. They can't name anyone or they'd jeopardise a trial, in the unlikely event of one ever happening.

Jellybaby1

It really is ludicrous to expect anyone to be named.

jenny smith

Dolbert wrote: »

It's extremely obvious who they're talking about in fairness. They can't name anyone or they'd jeopardise a trial, in the unlikely event of one ever happening.

we already knew the name of he suspect and politician. her tweets gave the impression there would be much more.

jenny smith

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

It really is ludicrous to expect anyone to be named.

she gave the impression there would be much more. Something new. Nothing there i did not know and far too long for all it said

JinkyJackson

I think she's only trying to further her own career to be honest.

jenny smith

JinkyJackson wrote: »

I think she's only trying to further her own career to be honest.

I agree and she should be ashamed. wonder would she be so against the cops if she were still with the indo - part of the system

she does not impress me much

Dolbert

jenny smith wrote: »

she gave the impression there would be much more. Something new. Nothing there i did not know and far too long for all it said

It's nothing that those of us following the case did not know. However I'd imagine the purpose of this is to bring the case to the wider public consciousness, maybe even force the hand of the authorities to act (who are obviously waiting for the suspect and/or politician to die before doing anything). I thought it was well done.

brooke 2

Ipso wrote: »

Add your reply here.

To be honest The poacher story sounds iffy. I can't think of a river there that's worth poaching or you could row on, apart from the Erne and I thought Cashelard doesn't go that far south.
I'm wide open to correction.

Whether or not they were poaching, two guys were fishing nearby.
According to the YouTube video which I just watched, Mary Boyle's
mother had gone down to the water looking for Mary. Her brother was
with her. When there was no sign of her daughter, she asked her brother
to contact the police. It was reported he refused to do so. The fishermen
were the ones who alerted the Gardaí.

maggiepip

Thought it was excellent. I knew nothing really about this case until I watched it. Can't believe the criticism, maybe she's trying to get justice ?? !!! You cant publically name suspects just like that, would mess up a prosecution for a start.
What the hell goes on in this country.

Going Forward

I hadn't known that her twin had become estranged from her family.

And I find it hard to reconcile with the two gardai having done so little about what they suspect over the intervening years.

JinkyJackson

One thing I find strange in this case, The person who found what they believed was a grave, and saw Marys hair, When they realised the Garda weren't going to investigate it, why didn't they themselves have a look? Why wait 30 odd years whitout ever checking it when you are fairly sure its Marys grave. If he saw her hair then it wouldn't take 10 seconds to scrape back a bit of mud

Going Forward

brooke 2 wrote: »

Whether or not they were poaching, two guys were fishing nearby.
According to the YouTube video which I just watched, Mary Boyle's
mother had gone down to the water looking for Mary. Her brother was
with her. When there was no sign of her daughter, she asked her brother
to contact the police. It was reported he refused to do so. The fishermen
were the ones who alerted the Gardaí.

Yes, the program also mentioned that her uncle said he said nothing to Mary on the walk and the now deceased superintendent(?) claimed he had said he had told her to turn back.

brooke 2

Going Forward wrote: »

I hadn't known that her twin had become estranged from her family.

And I find it hard to reconcile with the two gardai having done so little about what they suspect over the intervening years.

Just a few thoughts. Perhaps the fact that her mother is far from keen to have all this publicity might have something to do
with the reluctance of the authorities to proceed with the case. In one part of the film, she is reported as saying that these
things should be dealt with 'quietly' and all this 'running to Westminster' etc. is nonsense. She struck me as someone with a
strong character who no doubt has suffered terribly. However, she is typical of a person from a remote country area, who does
not want 'outsiders' to know her business, especially if a close family member of hers is the main suspect in the disappearance
of her child. What intrigued me, though, is how she seemed to be closer to him than to her daughter, Ann, who struck me,
rightly or wrongly, as someone who may be rather easily manipulated. It was also interesting that the girls' only brother, who
now resides in the States, did not want to contribute to the film.

Re Mary Boyle's father - Margo O'Donnell stated that he was a distant relation of her mother, coming from the same island off
the coast of Donegal. Gemma O'Doherty said that he died 'in mysterious circumstances' a few years ago, still broken hearted
after the death of Mary. I imagine he may have been the close relative of the suspect who cried to the sergeant in his car that
he knew what had happened to Mary, i.e. she was 'murdered'. If this is so, consider how horrific it must have been for him to
live with this all the years until his death.

Margo seems to be on a mission to seek justice for Mary, as her own mother had been very upset by the child's disappearance
and had asked Margo a few days before she died to 'find Mary'.

Most definitely a family divided, with the Gallagher side (mother's) reluctant to even ask for an inquest and, it seems, to want
to 'leave very well alone', but the Boyle side (father's) extremely frustrated in their efforts to seek justice for poor Mary Boyle.

brooke 2

Going Forward wrote: »

Yes, the program also mentioned that her uncle said he said nothing to Mary on the walk and the now deceased superintendent(?) claimed he had said he had told her to turn back.

It was also very strange when Mary's mother came out of the house in a
panic, screaming for Mary, that her brother who was working just outside,
said nothing at that stage about Mary following him to the neighbour's house.
He only mentioned this later.

NIMAN

I never really knew the in's and out's of the case, and so the YouTube piece I found rather shocking.

It appears to be a fairly clear cut case, and I can't for the life of me think why so much has been done NOT to bring the killer to justice. Its not like he was an important man or anything.

brooke 2

NIMAN wrote: »

I never really knew the in's and out's of the case, and so the YouTube piece I found rather shocking.

It appears to be a fairly clear cut case, and I can't for the life of me think why so much has been done NOT to bring the killer to justice. Its not like he was an important man or anything. Seems a simple farmer and nothing else.

He was in Fianna Fáil. The local politician who is thought to have instructed
the gardaí to 'lay off' the suspect is in Fianna Fáil. Protecting the 'institution'.
Where have we come across this before? :mad:

NIMAN

And this is exactly why I find the case so shocking.

I would see through it if the person suspected of being the killer was in a high position with a lot of influence, but in this case he was protected simply because he was mates with a FF politician, and was a FF member himself???

Thats it??Seriously??

How can this politician live with themselves for protecting a child abuser and killer simply because he is a member of their party? Surely a child's life transcends this?

Or am I missing something else? Is there a ring being protected with more than just the chief suspect involved?

oranbhoy67

I just want to answer a few things here in Bold Brooke i do not mean to be condescending

brooke 2 wrote: »

Just a few thoughts. Perhaps the fact that her mother is far from keen to have all this publicity might have something to do
with the reluctance of the authorities to proceed with the case. In one part of the film, she is reported as saying that these
things should be dealt with 'quietly' and all this 'running to Westminster' etc. is nonsense. She struck me as someone with a
strong character who no doubt has suffered terribly. However, she is typical of a person from a remote country area, who does
not want 'outsiders' to know her business, especially if a close family member of hers is the main suspect in the disappearance
of her child. you have nailed it pretty much here
What intrigued me, though, is how she seemed to be closer to him than to her daughter, Ann, who struck me,
rightly or wrongly, as someone who may be rather easily manipulated. It was also interesting that the girls' only brother, who
now resides in the States, did not want to contribute to the film. he doesnt reside in the states , he works there and in other foreign climes for long stretches of time , he is a victim in all this too and i believe he is torn on what to do /say

Re Mary Boyle's father - Margo O'Donnell stated that he was a distant relation of her mother, coming from the same island off
the coast of Donegal. Gemma O'Doherty said that he died 'in mysterious circumstances' a few years ago, still broken hearted
after the death of Mary. I imagine he may have been the close relative of the suspect who cried to the sergeant in his car that
he knew what had happened to Mary, i.e. she was 'murdered'. If this is so, consider how horrific it must have been for him to
live with this all the years until his death. he wasnt the person in the car, he was absolutely broken hearted and never uttered barely a word about the case to anyone, he was an experienced fisherman but an inquest found he had drowned accidently whilst fishing on the coast off his native owey Island in 2005

Margo seems to be on a mission to seek justice for Mary, as her own mother had been very upset by the child's disappearance
and had asked Margo a few days before she died to 'find Mary'.

Most definitely a family divided, with the Gallagher side (mother's) reluctant to even ask for an inquest and, it seems, to want
to 'leave very well alone', but the Boyle side (father's) extremely frustrated in their efforts to seek justice for poor Mary Boyle. theres only a handful of the boyle family including myself trying to seek justice the rest seem to have the mentaility you spoke about in the first paragraph

oranbhoy67

NIMAN wrote: »

And this is exactly why I find the case so shocking.

I would see through it if the person suspected of being the killer was in a high position with a lot of influence, but in this case he was protected simply because he was mates with a FF politician, and was a FF member himself???

Thats it??Seriously??

How can this politician live with themselves for protecting a child abuser and killer simply because he is a member of their party? Surely a child's life transcends this?

Or am I missing something else? Is there a ring being protected with more than just the chief suspect involved?

you have said exactly what most of us campaigning for justice on this case are thinking and you have came to the same conclusion!

There was a well known ring going on in West Donegal around the same time
so its not as if it would be too far a stretch!

oranbhoy67

Going Forward wrote: »

Yes, the program also mentioned that her uncle said he said nothing to Mary on the walk and the now deceased superintendent(?) claimed he had said he had told her to turn back.

here is a very strange direct quote from the mother from an otherwise not very well written or informed article

``I looked out the front door. The rest of the children were playing in a thicket in the front garden, Mary was not there. My brother Gerry was fixing a stone wall in front of the house. I asked him did he see Mary, he didn't answer, he must not have heard me. Ten minutes later I asked did anyone see Mary and Gerry shot off in his car down the road. I remember in desperation asking my mother to light a candle. I shook holy water all over the place. I felt so panicky and I remember I ran out to the rocks shouting and crying. I hoped and prayed that God would protect her. When Gerry came back to the house he said she had followed him earlier to the Cawleys' house and that she turned back. I got into the car and drove along the road in different directions. It was a nightmare.''

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mary-boyle-a-stolen-child-26259379.html

I asked the uncle about this & he flatly denied it happened.

oranbhoy67

JinkyJackson wrote: »

One thing I find strange in this case, The person who found what they believed was a grave, and saw Marys hair, When they realised the Garda weren't going to investigate it, why didn't they themselves have a look? Why wait 30 odd years whitout ever checking it when you are fairly sure its Marys grave. If he saw her hair then it wouldn't take 10 seconds to scrape back a bit of mud

it is strange all right i remember reading at the time that he thought it was a cattle grave which he said would be fairly common and he had faith that the gards had checked it out , i must find the link though

oranbhoy67

jenny smith wrote: »

Thanks for that link.

I am a bit underwhelmed. Not much that was not known. i thought they intended to name the suspect with all the talk of legal threats

howamidifferent wrote: »

Completely underwhelmed. No naming of any suspect. No naming of FF TD. Unless Gemma takes us all for mind readers it was a waste of an hour.

jenny smith wrote: »

we already knew the name of he suspect and politician. her tweets gave the impression there would be much more.

jenny smith wrote: »

she gave the impression there would be much more. Something new. Nothing there i did not know and far too long for all it said

JinkyJackson wrote: »

I think she's only trying to further her own career to be honest.

Ill be honest here, I have fell out with Gemma, or more she has fell out with me as I am not as easily controlled as others may be & she's obviously found this frustrating .

having said that Margo and My cousin were pushing this case long before Gemma came aboard, from Day 1 in Margos case, and having been involved in it deeply myself lately having only myself discovered the full extent of the case I believe fully that they are on the right track.

She is certainly not doing this for charity but it is her profession , she has a personality that puts a few noses out of joint ( including mine ) but right now she has been charged with running the show and so I just have to hope she gets somewhere with it

brooke 2

I appreciate the clarifications, oranbhoy.

Just trying to sort through some of what I saw on YouTube tonight!

You could sense the frustration of the two gardaí, especially the guy
who said he can barely look at the suspect whenever he meets him
on the street. Their hands were totally tied. It is frightening to think
how justice can be denied when the powers at be feel under threat.

How does that politician live with himself? It is quite possible that the
suspect might have broken under questioning, if the gardaí were not
forbidden from questioning him by their superiors. It looks like the Boyle
family could have had justice for Mary years ago, but, then, FF might have
had to endure the headlines that one of their fold had committed murder,
and one could not have had that!!

NIMAN

brooke 2 wrote: »

I appreciate the clarifications, oranbhoy.

Just trying to sort through some of what I saw on YouTube tonight!

You could sense the frustration of the two gardaí, especially the guy
who said he can barely look at the suspect whenever he meets him
on the street. Their hands were totally tied. It is frightening to think
how justice can be denied when the powers at be feel under threat.

How does that politician live with himself? It is quite possible that the
suspect might have broken under questioning, if the gardaí were not
forbidden from questioning him by their superiors. It looks like the Boyle
family could have had justice for Mary years ago, but, then, FF might have
had to endure the headlines that one of their fold had committed murder,
and one could not have had that!!

But again this is something I find hard to grasp.

Surely the fact that they are a FF member is irrelevant.Its not something that the media would have pushed and which the country have labelled the murderer as.

They could just as easily have said the murderer was a white man, or a Donegal man, or a Liverpool supporter. The fact that he was a FF member doesn't bring shame on the party any more than any of the other 3 examples I have given.

You obviously believe that it was covered up the way the Church covered up child abuse?

oranbhoy67

NIMAN wrote: »

But again this is something I find hard to grasp.

Surely the fact that they are a FF member is irrelevant.Its not something that the media would have pushed and which the country have labelled the murderer as.

They could just as easily have said the murderer was a white man, or a Donegal man, or a Liverpool supporter. The fact that he was a FF member doesn't bring shame on the party any more than any of the other 3 examples I have given.

You obviously believe that it was covered up the way the Church covered up child abuse?

the only thing that i can come up with ( and this is purely my own speculation) is that the suspect had "dirt" on the FF man and vowed to bring him down as well if he had to go down , either that or just the fact they may have been part of the same ring, that the FF man felt he could get away with getting one of his own type off & did so


There was an RTE documentary in 1985 concentrating on corruption within the South Donegal area the council their and planning applications, the show and subsequent articles in the Donegal Democrat made the claim that the Inspector Dom Murray (now deceased but shown in the doc) and this politician were extremely close and indeed the politicians business had been charged by rank and file garda for having illegal poker machines on their premises but the garda were "frustrated each time when the charges came to nothing " due to the closeness of the boss and the politician ..

a lot different from a child murder i know but proof that the politician allegedly had power over this garda as far back as then. decades before these allegations have surfaced , i have screenshots of the article but can't post due to it containing the politicians name .. so frustrating !!

NIMAN

Just found this link, and the amount of cases of child abuse in the area is shocking.
I never knew of all this, so I can see how this case of your cousins disappearance could have a more complictaed back story

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/10/22/a-corner-of-ireland/