Dublin’s traffic it’s a two part problem.

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Not at all.
The argument has been done to death.
You can quite rightly point out all the benefits of cycling, but people don't care. It's a hassle. It's more difficult than driving. Until there's an easier solution then people won't change, and no amount of studies and preaching will change that.
People are well aware of the benefits of cycling, but most still choose to drive. People are well aware of the benefits of a healthy lifestyle but most still choose to eat whatever they want.

People are people, and will nearly always choose the path of least resistance.

Exactly, it's the path of least resistance that needs changing. cycling and buses need to be super easy and convenient and driving needs to be a punishing experience.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think congestion zones or these P&R city limits things would only encourage businesses to move just outside of the city. You'd be hard pressed to find many big company directors willing to forgoe the commute in a plush barge, or their 5 bed manor, creating these 'city limits' transport hubs may even end up sending traffic flows backwards, with effective commuter links, city dwellers could easily travel out to their offices at these hubs. Eventually you'd just drive up property prices for commercial and residential wherever these are and you just end up with more sprawl and people commuting from further towns knowing that they now only have to go as far as rathcoole instead of drive the next 45 mins into the city.

Experience across the world shows that doesn't happen. Most office based employment will centralise in all economic scenarios. Besides you won't get planning anymore for major office schemes that have poor public transport options. New offices being built in Central Dublin have little or no parking as a condition of their planning. There isn't enough office space in the burbs for that to happen and permission won't be granted for it.

Twenty Grand wrote: »

This is the mentality you're dealing with.

Pay higher tax so you can drive to a car park miles from work, wait for a shuttle into town, then a walk or cycle to your job.

Where's the encouragement there??

Why would move to somewhere with the intention of driving a long distance into Dublin City Centre everyday. Surely that was a bad decision? Encouraging car use ceased to be public policy in the better run parts of Europe about 30 years ago. You hardly thought that promoting sustainability would never catch on here?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

So those of us that have no desire to or cant afford to live in the city should be taxed into oblivion or forced onto cattle cart busses and trains so that you have to deal with less traffic on your already tiny commute ?

If you say 'can't afford to live in the city' you obviously haven't factored in the cost of travel adequately. The state subsidized car usage was never going to last. Also it would be less of a 'cattle cart' if the PT system had more roadspace and therefore more capacity.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

So basically this thread is a bunch of people who currently spend hours getting to work and for whome public transport is ineffective, unreliable and uncomfortable , being told that they shouldnt use cars , by two posters so far who cycle around the city they live in and are in work in a few minutes.....

well done lads.

Well mostly it's been you trolling because you enjoy being a contrarian.

the_syco wrote: »

People drive to work because either there's no option of public transport to their job, or because it's cheaper than parking in an unsecure parking area and paying for transport into their job.
/QUOTE]

While that may be true for some. This thread demonstrates that people also drive into Dublin City Centre, purely out of badness. When you consider the 10s of thousands of people who join the N4 at the Lucan bypass heading inbound in the morning, is it really believable that these are mostly people with no alternatives.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Invest in the outer ring road to lighten the burden on the M50 , ease planning on commercial buildings surrounding that outer ring road to encourage working outside the city, increase building heights dramatically in the city , focus on elevated rail / non road based/interfering public transport, increase the number of loading bays to kerb vans obstructing traffic being on double yellows, commit to no further reduction of parking spaces in dublin.

That sounds horrific. People don't want to work in soulless business parks on the outside of the city. They want to work in the city where you can go for a stroll during lunch, go grab lunch somewhere, go for a sneaky pint after work.

What you've described is basically an American hellhole where people live to work.

P_1 wrote: »

That sounds horrific. People don't want to work in soulless business parks on the outside of the city. They want to work in the city where you can go for a stroll during lunch, go grab lunch somewhere, go for a sneaky pint after work.

What you've described is basically an American hellhole where people live to work.

Plenty of people work in that type of location now. Myself included.

The funny thing is that free enterprise will set up those businesses, (eg restaurants, gyms, pub etc) near the business parks.


Generally I get through 10000 steps a day mostly in walks around the area, in a park etc.

ELM327 wrote: »

I live in Meath and commute 70km each way to work in Dublin.
If public transport was free I would not take it. I'd have to get a Bus Eireann bus to the city centre, then a dublin bus from the city centre to work, doubling my commute time each way.

But with widescale car bans and bus priority your bus commute would shorten significantly.

cgcsb wrote: »

But with widescale car bans and bus priority your bus commute would shorten significantly.

I have a 20 minute walk to the bus station, then a 1 hour bus journey to City Centre, then another unidentified walk to a bus stop to get a 45 minute bus to work.


70km on the motorway takes me less than 50 minutes usually.


There's a long way to go before they are time equal even excluding the cost of the hassle of public transport.

ELM327 wrote: »

I have a 20 minute walk to the bus station, then a 1 hour bus journey to City Centre, then another unidentified walk to a bus stop to get a 45 minute bus to work.


70km on the motorway takes me less than 50 minutes usually.


There's a long way to go before they are time equal even excluding the cost of the hassle of public transport.

Given that bus connects aims to roughly achieve centre to M50 bus journies of circa 30 minutes in peak times, I'd imagine the time will work out pretty well for buses.

cgcsb wrote: »

Given that bus connects aims to roughly achieve centre to M50 bus journies of circa 30 minutes in peak times, I'd imagine the time will work out pretty well for buses.

So that's the centre to M50 reduced from 45 mins to 30.
What about the 20 min walk, the 1 hour bus in, and the walk from the bus eireann bus to the dublin bus?

Patww79 wrote: »

Well that's one line of thinking that needs to go for a start. Let people go to work and go home, it's not a social day out and trying to mush people onto buses to cater for some idyllic movie version of a job is the furthest thing away from what needs to be done.

So dystopian capitalistic, work, sleep, consume it is then? Be a good little lad and buy your car, buy your petrol that funds despotic regimes in the middle east. Be a good little cog in the machine and slave away making a rich man richer and get nothing in return.

Fcuk that noise

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

As we are seeing clearly on this and other threads, some people choose to drive because they can't bear the thought of sitting beside a stranger.

I agree some are. Most drive because they have to.

Mystery666 wrote: »

So the commute contains driving for 25 mins, taking 2 trains and a short walk afterwards.

If you're lucky. Most people will have to get the train, followed by walking to get a bus. Waiting on a bus that's not full, getting said bus near their job, and walking some more.

My new job will be the following; 10 minute walk, 30 minute train ride, 20 minute walk, 40 minute bus ride. When I get a car, that entire commute will be 40 minutes.

cgcsb wrote: »

When you decided to live in a place inaccessible to public transport, you hardly did so thinking it'd always be cheap and easy to drive your vehicle into Dublin City Centre?

"Only place able to afford, that's not a crime ridden cesspit" is usually what they're thinking of.

cgcsb wrote: »

The level crossings on the Maynooth line are to be closed, which will allow for better frequency. Perhaps additional tolls or congestion charging would encourage more to use it.

Got a link to this? I'd say Kilmacredock residents will be happy about it. Although the Clonsilla crossing could be closed, I doubt the Coolmine crossing will be. If they both are, as well as the crossing at St Mochtas Football Club, that overpass near St Mochtas Football Club will see a doubling of traffic, and the roads near it will be hell.

cgcsb wrote: »

When you consider the 10s of thousands of people who join the N4 at the Lucan bypass heading inbound in the morning, is it really believable that these are mostly people with no alternatives.

The further out you go, the less Dublin Bus reaches. There are no P+R facilities along the N4. Once you get on it, you have to keep driving.

cgcsb wrote: »

But with widescale car bans and bus priority your bus commute would shorten significantly.

=-=

The only way for Dublins transport issue to be fixed would be for multiple P+R facilities to be set up near all major M50 junctions, that are specifically for P+R, and that are manned by security. Anytime I'm at the LUAS stop at the Red Cow, I see scattered piles of car window glass. If you charge people a flat fee for the week, and 24/7 shuttle buses (maybe less frequent outside of core business hours) going into the city centre AND to the other P+R facilities, it'll cut down on the car traffic going into the city centre.

Once this is in effect, you can then start doing other P+R facilities further outside of the city.

Fining people from going into the city won't work without working P+R facilities.

the_syco wrote: »

I agree some are. Most drive because they have to.


If you're lucky. Most people will have to get the train, followed by walking to get a bus. Waiting on a bus that's not full, getting said bus near their job, and walking some more.

My new job will be the following; 10 minute walk, 30 minute train ride, 20 minute walk, 40 minute bus ride. When I get a car, that entire commute will be 40 minutes.


"Only place able to afford, that's not a crime ridden cesspit" is usually what they're thinking of.


Got a link to this? I'd say Kilmacredock residents will be happy about it. Although the Clonsilla crossing could be closed, I doubt the Coolmine crossing will be. If they both are, as well as the crossing at St Mochtas Football Club, that overpass near St Mochtas Football Club will see a doubling of traffic, and the roads near it will be hell.


The further out you go, the less Dublin Bus reaches. There are no P+R facilities along the N4. Once you get on it, you have to keep driving.



=-=

The only way for Dublins transport issue to be fixed would be for multiple P+R facilities to be set up near all major M50 junctions, that are specifically for P+R, and that are manned by security. Anytime I'm at the LUAS stop at the Red Cow, I see scattered piles of car window glass. If you charge people a flat fee for the week, and 24/7 shuttle buses (maybe less frequent outside of core business hours) going into the city centre AND to the other P+R facilities, it'll cut down on the car traffic going into the city centre.

Once this is in effect, you can then start doing other P+R facilities further outside of the city.

Fining people from going into the city won't work without working P+R facilities.

That's what people are proposing though

ELM327 wrote: »

So that's the centre to M50 reduced from 45 mins to 30.
What about the 20 min walk, the 1 hour bus in, and the walk from the bus eireann bus to the dublin bus?

Without knowing the specifics of your commute, it's hard to tell what specific improvements busconnects will offer you.

cgcsb wrote: »

So you're not coming into Dublin City anyway??

Very few people will commute into dublin city centre.
You're talking about those commuting to or past the m50 from commuter towns.
Like the example earlier of commuting from Naas to Citywest

ELM327 wrote: »

Very few people will commute into dublin city centre.

over 200,000 people cross the canal cordon every morning