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What is the point of producing your licence in 10 days?

  • 09-01-2019 5:09pm
    #1
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭


    I was stopped recently and asked to produce my licence to nearest Garda Station within 10 days.

    I dont get it. What does it achieve? It made work for me having to go up there, find parking, go in and produce it. It made work for the guy in there, recording the details. And it made work for the guy who requested I produce it, checking that it was produced.

    But to what end? 3 people have now done some work - for what? For the original guy to just cross out that i did it? Is that all it is - a box ticking exercise?

    Surely the Gardai know if I have a valid licence or not from the computer system? And if they dont - why dont they? Why is millions being wasted annually on people traipsing up and showing their licence and 2 Guards wasting time on it?

    Is it just make work?


«134

Comments

  • #2
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,734 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    Just carry your licence.


  • #3
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    Just carry your licence.

    Thanks Guard - but Id still like to know the reasoning behind the make work?


  • #4
    DontThankMe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    They've gotta keep the guards busy because they have no crime to fight.


  • #5
    how.gareth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭how.gareth


    ....... wrote: »
    I was stopped recently and asked to produce my licence to nearest Garda Station within 10 days.

    I dont get it. What does it achieve? It made work for me having to go up there, find parking, go in and produce it. It made work for the guy in there, recording the details. And it made work for the guy who requested I produce it, checking that it was produced.

    But to what end? 3 people have now done some work - for what? For the original guy to just cross out that i did it? Is that all it is - a box ticking exercise?

    Surely the Gardai know if I have a valid licence or not from the computer system? And if they dont - why dont they? Why is millions being wasted annually on people traipsing up and showing their licence and 2 Guards wasting time on it?

    Is it just make work?

    How do you expect them to know you have a license? You could be Someone who’s banned from driving and just give the guards your friends details when stopped and ask him to produce them at the station


  • #6
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,734 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    ....... wrote: »
    Thanks Guard - but Id still like to know the reasoning behind the make work?


    You're welcome criminal. :)



    It's to prove that you actually have a licence after failing to produce it.


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  • #7
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    It would have saved all that if you just carried your licence .


  • #8
    Ultimate Seduction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    how.gareth wrote: »
    How do you expect them to know you have a license? You could be Someone who’s banned from driving and just give the guards your friends details when stopped and ask him to produce them at the station

    That can still happen. Give friends name when pulled, get friend to produce license.


  • #9
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    how.gareth wrote: »
    How do you expect them to know you have a license? You could be Someone who’s banned from driving and just give the guards your friends details when stopped and ask him to produce them at the station

    How do I expect them to know?

    Eh, because they are the Gardai and they are enforcing the road traffic laws, so presumably they have access to the computer system that tells them whether or not you have a valid licence. And if they dont - they really should.

    I mean they can look up the details of who the car Im driving is registered to, so why cant they look up the details of my licence?


  • #10
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,465 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    They would need to be able to bring up on their system an image of your licence or at least the photo from your licence to ID you.
    I don't think they have that capability so you are asked for your licence and if you don't have it on you, you are given 10 days to produce it.
    Yes it creates hassle so best to carry when possible but I do appreciate that with multiple vehicles, people can easily leave home without the licence.


  • #11
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,653 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    ....... wrote: »
    Thanks Guard - but Id still like to know the reasoning behind the make work?

    You realise fine could still be winging their way to you?


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  • #12
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    You realise fine could still be winging their way to you?

    Fine what?


  • #13
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    mickdw wrote: »
    They would need to be able to bring up on their system an image of your licence or at least the photo from your licence to ID you.
    I don't think they have that capability so you are asked for your licence and if you don't have it on you, you are given 10 days to produce it.
    Yes it creates hassle so best to carry when possible but I do appreciate that with multiple vehicles, people can easily leave home without the licence.

    Why not just carry it in your wallet ?


  • #14
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    mickdw wrote: »
    They would need to be able to bring up on their system an image of your licence or at least the photo from your licence to ID you.
    I don't think they have that capability so you are asked for your licence and if you don't have it on you, you are given 10 days to produce it.
    Yes it creates hassle so best to carry when possible but I do appreciate that with multiple vehicles, people can easily leave home without the licence.

    So why dont they have that capability? I mean, when you add up the amount of wasted time over 1 year of people and guards over producing it - all paper based records etc...

    Surely just give the Gardai access to NDLS data? Or to a subset of it?


  • #15
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,337 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    ....... wrote: »

    I dont get it. What does it achieve? It made work for me having to go up there, find parking, go in and produce it. It made work for the guy in there, recording the details. And it made work for the guy who requested I produce it, checking that it was produced.

    But to what end? 3 people have now done some work

    It's like buying the paper on sunday, you don't really need it but it's keeping somebody in a Job.


  • #16
    SpannerMonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭SpannerMonkey


    ....... wrote: »
    How do I expect them to know?

    Eh, because they are the Gardai and they are enforcing the road traffic laws, so presumably they have access to the computer system that tells them whether or not you have a valid licence. And if they dont - they really should.

    I mean they can look up the details of who the car Im driving is registered to, so why cant they look up the details of my licence?

    and how do they know you're the owner of the car or who you say you are . you could be anyone . just produce the licence and stop looking for something to be offended by


  • #17
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Why not just carry it in your wallet ?

    On the day in question I didnt have a wallet with me. Mine doesnt fit in a wallet anyway - its the old style one.

    I used to keep it in the car but then a Guard told me not to in case the car was stolen.


  • #18
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    SpannerMonkey wrote: »
    and how do they know you're the owner of the car or who you say you are . you could be anyone . just produce the licence and stop looking for something to be offended by

    That doesnt make any sense? That could apply to any situation with a Guard, not just being asked to produce a licence.

    Im not remotely offended - although you seem to be - I just dont see the point of it?


  • #19
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,465 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    ....... wrote: »
    mickdw wrote: »
    They would need to be able to bring up on their system an image of your licence or at least the photo from your licence to ID you.
    I don't think they have that capability so you are asked for your licence and if you don't have it on you, you are given 10 days to produce it.
    Yes it creates hassle so best to carry when possible but I do appreciate that with multiple vehicles, people can easily leave home without the licence.

    So why dont they have that capability? I mean, when you add up the amount of wasted time over 1 year of people and guards over producing it - all paper based records etc...

    Surely just give the Gardai access to NDLS data? Or to a subset of it?

    I agree. I'm just saying that they must not have that info otherwise they would use it unless of course they were looking for extra money to train up to use it or some other such nonsense that you typically hear.
    It sounds very simple to do but i guess there are pretty severe data security issues around making that available to every garda on the move.


  • #20
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    mickdw wrote: »
    I agree. I'm just saying that they must not have that info otherwise they would use it unless of course they were looking for extra money to train up to use it or some other such nonsense that you typically hear.
    It sounds very simple to do but i guess there are pretty severe data security issues around making that available to every garda on the move.

    No more issues around data security than who the car is registered to?

    Ive been stopped and from my reg plate they tell me my home address etc.

    It just seems like such a fecking waste of time.


  • #21
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,312 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Think of it like a small punishment for not carrying your licence. You should have had it with you, you didn't. Not that serious a crime, you don't deserve points. But you now have the small hassle of going to the station and producing it. Perfectly little annoying punishment for not carrying it imho


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  • #22
    randd1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭randd1


    ....... wrote: »
    Thanks Guard - but Id still like to know the reasoning behind the make work?

    If you hadn't forgot the licence in the first place, there wouldn't be any make work. And I would assume it was an accident on your part that you did so.

    So they have the make work because it gives decent people a chance not have a summons or fine thrown at them for absolutely feck all.


  • #23
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Think of it like a small punishment for not carrying your licence. You should have had it with you, you didn't. Not that serious a crime, you don't deserve points. But you now have the small hassle of going to the station and producing it. Perfectly little annoying punishment for not carrying it imho

    So it IS just make work then?


  • #24
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    randd1 wrote: »
    If you hadn't forgot the licence in the first place, there wouldn't be any make work. And I would assume it was an accident on your part that you did so.

    So they have the make work because it gives decent people a chance not have a summons or fine thrown at them for absolutely feck all.

    But it seems like the make work actually punishes the Guards more. I had to go in and produce it. But the guy in the station had to take it from me, write down the details, and then the guy who told me to produce it had to check that it was produced and tick the little box in his notebook beside my name etc....

    So 2 Guards wasting time - double the hassle that I had.


  • #25
    artanevilla
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    He could have done you there and then, he's being sound by giving you ten days.


  • #26
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    artanevilla wrote: »
    He could have done you there and then, he's being sound by giving you ten days.

    Done me for what? Being forgetful? Thats just more make work!

    That brings up another interesting point though - why DO people have to physically carry a licence?

    Again - if the Guards had access to the information then we wouldnt need to be carrying one.

    Do you not think the whole thing is a bit bizarre?


  • #27
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,531 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ....... wrote: »
    Done me for what? Being forgetful? Thats just more make work!

    That brings up another interesting point though - why DO people have to physically carry a licence?

    Again - if the Guards had access to the information then we wouldnt need to be carrying one.

    Do you not think the whole thing is a bit bizarre?


    because it is an offence not to carry a licence while driving.


  • #28
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    ....... wrote: »
    Surely the Gardai know if I have a valid licence or not from the computer system?
    If you don't have photo ID with you they might not believe you really are who you claim to be.
    Maybe you're driving your mate's car and give them his name, while you yourself don't hold a licence.


  • #29
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,653 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    ....... wrote: »
    Fine what?

    The fine for not producing licence when driving.



    It'll be points too shortly if Mr Ross gets his way.


  • #30
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    because it is an offence not to carry a licence while driving.

    But why is it? Do you not think we should question these things ?

    It might have been more relevant in a past age when they didnt have access to computer systems, but it seems a bit outdated now.

    I just see the whole thing as a total waste of time and money. From the make work of having to produce it to the nonsense of actually taking someone to court if they dont produce it - youre looking at huge costs to the state to take someone to court (how many people involved - wages etc..) and it just boils down to someone forgot to bring their licence that day - its hardly the crime of the century is it?


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  • #31
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    biko wrote: »
    If you don't have photo ID with you they might not believe you really are who you claim to be.
    Maybe you're driving your mate's car and give them his name, while you yourself don't hold a licence.

    Given that you dont have to produce it to the same person who asks you to you could just send your mate to produce his in that situation anyway.


  • #32
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    The fine for not producing licence when driving.



    It'll be points too shortly if Mr Ross gets his way.

    Well the guy said that there would be no fine if I produced it in 10 days, he even went on to joke about it being christmas day in a few days time so if I went up that day i might get some sweets (seems weird now that I write it down but it was fine in the conversation!), so presume not - but if I do I do.

    If thats the case then I will take it that it is in fact a revenue stream rather than make work - which would seem more reasonable tbh - at least there is a point!


  • #33
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    ....... wrote: »
    But why is it? Do you not think we should question these things ?

    Seriously?

    Perhaps your "but why" query should be directed to here:-

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056353782


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Why not just carry it in your wallet ?

    My wallet is full of cards that I actually need on me plus it increases the chances of losing your license if it’s in your wallet.

    I leave my license in my main car but I drive multiple different cars so could easily be driving without it, I’ve no problem producing it within 10 days but it would be ridiculous to make it a points offense to not have it on you as it’s a pain in the arse to always have it on you.


  • #35
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    GM228 wrote: »
    Seriously?

    Perhaps your "but why" query should be directed to here:-

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056353782

    Yes absolutely seriously. The rules around having to carry a licence on your person were brought in long before we had computer systems so if you did not produce your licence then there was no other way to check you had a valid one. That is not the case anymore.

    Or perhaps you meant that we shouldnt question anything? Why shouldnt we? I can think for myself and having just been through the experience i have posted about I got thinking about it and am struggling to see why it is still being implemented the way it is given the world we now live in. Im sorry if you cant understand the point being made.

    Its surprising that if you question something that has become outdated and a waste of time and tax payers money that one is directed to a freemans thread? I dont really understand your reasoning on that one. This thread has nothing to do with being a freeman.


  • #36
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Emerald Jealous Sauerkraut wrote: »
    My wallet is full of cards that I actually need on me plus it increases the chances of losing your license if it’s in your wallet.

    I didnt have a wallet on me at the time. I was literally driving 5 minutes from my house to do something quickly and go home. I had my keys and that was it. I dont think I even had my phone on me.


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  • #37
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Emerald Jealous Sauerkraut wrote: »
    My wallet is full of cards that I actually need on me plus it increases the chances of losing your license if it’s in your wallet.

    I leave my license in my main car but I drive multiple different cars so could easily be driving without it, I’ve no problem producing it within 10 days but it would be ridiculous to make it a points offense to not have it on you as it’s a pain in the arse to always have it on you.

    Well oddly enough the German nation has no problem carrying it . Of course they know they will be penalised for not carrying it . I cannot see the problem at all .


  • #38
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Emerald Jealous Sauerkraut wrote: »
    My wallet is full of cards that I actually need on me plus it increases the chances of losing your license if it’s in your wallet.
    u.

    Your licence is ( a card if you change to it) one you actually need on you.


  • #39
    Stanford
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Stanford


    Its beyond belief that a country known for its IT capability cannot produce a "live" database whereby the Gardai, via a hand held device, cannot have access to driving licence data,PULSE, road tax data and insurance data whereby a garda cannot see all the above on the spot. And please don't quote GDPR, we had this problem long before GDPR Regs came in.

    Mindboggling


  • #40
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    ....... wrote: »
    Yes absolutely seriously. The rules around having to carry a licence on your person were brought in long before we had computer systems so if you did not produce your licence then there was no other way to check you had a valid one. That is not the case anymore.

    The requirement to carry a licence on you when driving came in on 1st January 2003, long after we had computer systems and 4 years after we got Pulse.


  • #41
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,354 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    ....... wrote: »
    On the day in question I didnt have a wallet with me. Mine doesnt fit in a wallet anyway - its the old style one.

    I used to keep it in the car but then a Guard told me not to in case the car was stolen.

    I’ve the old style one too. Fits fine into my bog standard billfold wallet.


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  • #42
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    endacl wrote: »
    I’ve the old style one too. Fits fine into my bog standard billfold wallet.

    I have mine in a small tri fold Wallet. Each part is pretty much the dimensions of the licence. It's been in there for 9 and a half years and is in grand condition.


  • #43
    alan1963
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭alan1963


    Police Officer no give me producer
    Police Officer no bother give me producer
    Police Officer no give me producer
    Police Offcer no bother give me producer


  • #44
    jelutong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭jelutong


    ....... wrote: »
    I didnt have a wallet on me at the time. I was literally driving 5 minutes from my house to do something quickly and go home. I had my keys and that was it. I dont think I even had my phone on me.

    You had no form of identity on you so how could the Guard check if you had a valid licence or not?


  • #45
    tcawley29
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭tcawley29


    ....... wrote: »
    But why is it? Do you not think we should question these things ?

    The OPs on to something here. Might as well burn my Passport while I'm at it too :rolleyes:


  • #46
    MAJJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭MAJJ


    Stanford wrote: »
    Its beyond belief that a country known for its IT capability cannot produce a "live" database whereby the Gardai, via a hand held device, cannot have access to driving licence data,PULSE, road tax data and insurance data whereby a garda cannot see all the above on the spot. And please don't quote GDPR, we had this problem long before GDPR Regs came in.

    Mindboggling

    Completely agree and with the OP.
    If we were designing a new process would we so it this way? There is huge opportunity for effeciency


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Well oddly enough the German nation has no problem carrying it . Of course they know they will be penalised for not carrying it . I cannot see the problem at all .

    Who gives a damn what the German nation does. Most of Europe look at me like I’ve 10 heads when I say I don’t carry an official ID on me at all times, doesn’t mean we should have to do that either.
    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Your licence is ( a card if you change to it) one you actually need on you.

    No it isn’t, I can’t remember the last time I’ve been asked for it, it’s been years. Bank cards etc on the other hand are used regularly and you simply can’t do stuff without them.


  • #48
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    if the law states that you should carry your licence when driving then going 5 minutes down the road/driving different cars usnt a valid excuse or even any excuse for that matter.

    its very simple. . just have it on you

    yes the technology should be there to verify if the person stopped is legal/whatever but id say police wise we are decades behind most developed countries.


  • #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Just do a license app for the phone and it would make it all very simple so.


  • #50
    tcawley29
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭tcawley29


    I personally agree with the rule that everyone should have some form of photo id on them at all times.

    Although unlikely, supposing you get in an accident in a town where you are not known and end up in a coma or worse, who can identify you and let your next of kin know if you don't have any ID.

    At least with ID they might be able to tie something back to your locality and track down someone.

    Again I know that is a very 'out there' example which may never happen but there is always a chance.


  • #51
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Emerald Jealous Sauerkraut wrote: »
    .



    No it isn’t, I can’t remember the last time I’ve been asked for it, it’s been years. Bank cards etc on the other hand are used regularly and you simply can’t do stuff without them.

    Yes, it is.its required when driving. It's super simple stuff.

    And if you decide the law doesnt apply to you, don't nitch and moan if you have to produce.

    The revenue don't ring asking you for tax every time you earn, but you still have to pay it.


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