Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

ThunbergsAreGo · 20-09-2018 6:22pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

A few weeks are not over. The data PROVES that this is a better service for all commuters). You had become habituated and institutionalised to the old service but a new world of higher frequency and faster trains is just around the corner.

What data?

What a silly time to do it as the students schools etc are back. Even if the commuter I get stopped at portmarnock, clongriffen, noone would fit on!!

Del.Monte · 20-09-2018 6:25pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The 184 is only every half an hour. The 84, while not as bad as it was...you are more likley to see a bald eagle than an 84 they are still infrequent enough. You'd easily be waiting 30 min or more unless you were lucky enough to get an 84X. Contrast that to the 145 every 10 min or the 46a where you could turn up anytime and not be waiting very long before one shows up. Of course Delgany does not have the same population as Donnybrook or Stillorgan but it's not an easy service. It's an akward as hell area to get out of and if you were trying to get to work and do so with enough flexibility built into the schedule so you're not constantly late, it would be very aggravating.
Cycling is all well and good but as many have pointed out before, those of us who have to go to work in a shirt and tie can't go there on the bike because not only would the weather (esp in winter) destroy you but on those roads it would not be a safe journey (it's not exactly cycle lane central). Thinking myself, I hit the gym each morning before my college/work day starts and naturally since you're not working out right if you 're not breaking a sweat, and unlike most who use the gym I'm serious about it, I sweat quite a lot, so I shower afterwards. I would then have to either shower again at work (whos workplace has one?) or sit in less comfort during the day. I realize cycling at moderate pace would not exactly bucket you in sweat, and you could stopgap things with a few sprays of antipersperant but there would be enough that when it dries it would leave you shifty and uncomfortable.
Most of us would start our day cleanly shaven and showered and feeling fresh and polished that feeling would be ruined by a cycle IMO
I realize only about 1% of the country do things like hit the gym before work at the crack of dawn, but I'm pointing out that for a lot of people there are complications that would not make every option available to them.
This is all before getting into the domino efffect the Rosslare train has on the DART....every ...SINGLE...F
KING DAY....EVERY SINGLE DAY without fail.

Or, conversely, the effect that the DART has on the Rosslare train?

end of the road · 20-09-2018 6:59pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

A few weeks are not over. The data PROVES that this is a better service for all commuters). You had become habituated and institutionalised to the old service but a new world of higher frequency and faster trains is just around the corner.

what data. can you link us to this data?
how does it prove that this is a better service for all commuters) when journey times have increased for all, trains on the dart are mostly shorter and people are being left behind by trains where once they wouldn't have been, or at least to a lot lesser extent?
how do you know the poster had become habituated and institutionalised to the old service, rather then his actual experience on the ground showing that the older timetable worked better?
how do you know that a new world of higher frequency and faster trains is just around the corner when the actual existing evidence says otherwise?
the higher frequency has been implemented, trains have got slower. trains have got shorter. the facts on the ground prove that this timetable isn't able to work to the full. your statements so far are not backed up by the evidence on the ground.

Ohmeha · 20-09-2018 7:04pm

Kh1993 wrote: »

I wonder if the pro-frequency people actually use the northside darts during peak times. Because I’m pretty sure the majority of passengers would revert back to the certainty of 2 weeks ago

Over the last two weeks my journey from platform to platform has been at best 5 minutes longer and at worst 35 minutes longer. The capacity isn’t there, the track and paths just aren’t there, the choice isn’t there (commuters) and the certainty of will I get into work isn’t there. It’s unacceptable. I posted similar on the first day of this cock up and was told suck it up basically for a few weeks. Well we have, and it’s no better. There has been zero improvement.

Yep, my regular northside/southbound DART now consistently every day taking 5-7 minutes longer than the previous timetable (one minute differential in departure time with the new timetable)

Things are bad enough now with the new timetable, autumn leaf fall season around the corner is going to cause even more chaos and cross the limits of what's left of commuter's patience

Rashers72 · 20-09-2018 8:32pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the only increase in passengers was caused by commuter trains no longer stopping at dart stations. Irish rail created this problem. And it is most definitely a problem. they need to fix it. I dont see why commuters should just suck it up and accept a service that calcutta would be ashamed of.

Just to remind u Northern Suburban line customers completely shafted in the new timetable. Some journeys now 40% longer. Most trains now only go to Connolly, we lost Pearse and Tara st where I reckon 2/3 of customers want to go. Wait times in Connolly for connecting Dart up to 15 mins. We crawl every day between Malahide and Connolly. And while local td's got behind a campaign to get IE to reverse decisions around Clongriffen and Portmarnock, we don't have tbe same political support north of Donabate, as the majority of commuters still drive....

ohnonotgmail · 20-09-2018 8:37pm

Rashers72 wrote: »

Just to remind u Northern Suburban line customers completely shafted in the new timetable. Some journeys now 40% longer. Most trains now only go to Connolly, we lost Pearse and Tara st where I reckon 2/3 of customers want to go. Wait times in Connolly for connecting Dart up to 15 mins. We crawl every day between Malahide and Connolly. And while local td's got behind a campaign to get IE to reverse decisions around Clongriffen and Portmarnock, we don't have tbe same political support north of Donabate, as the majority of commuters still drive....

Everybody north of the city has been shafted

ohnonotgmail · 20-09-2018 8:40pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

A few weeks are not over. The data PROVES that this is a better service for all commuters). You had become habituated and institutionalised to the old service but a new world of higher frequency and faster trains is just around the corner.

a-new-world-of-higher-frequency-and-faster-trains-is-just-around-the-corner.jpg

devnull · 20-09-2018 8:57pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Everybody north of the city has been shafted

Not everyone - there are groups of people who feel they have benefitted from this as I've explained earlier, but I admit that there are a bigger number who percieve the changes as being bad.

ixoy · 20-09-2018 9:57pm

devnull wrote: »

Not everyone - there are groups of people who feel they have benefitted from this as I've explained earlier, but I admit that there are a bigger number who percieve the changes as being bad.

A far far bigger number, let's be honest. The ones who benefit, like those who are those starting early at East Point which is nothing next to the thousands who are trying to get just get into town without being crushed, delayed, or not even boarding the damn train (and that includes Clongriffin sometimes it would seem!)

Since nobody on the Northern side is happy, what can be done to reverse the decision? Has anyone any clout? If they're not going to reverse, due to being stubborn, then can they at least get longer DARTs that can actually accommodate people? Swap a 4-carriage with an 8-carriage from the southside. We haven't heard a peep from them so presumably they can spare it.

end of the road · 20-09-2018 10:03pm

ixoy wrote: »

A far far bigger number, let's be honest. The ones who benefit, like those who are those starting early at East Point which is nothing next to the thousands who are trying to get just get into town without being crushed, delayed, or not even boarding the damn train (and that includes Clongriffin sometimes it would seem!)

Since nobody on the Northern side is happy, what can be done to reverse the decision? Has anyone any clout? If they're not going to reverse, due to being stubborn, then can they at least get longer DARTs that can actually accommodate people? Swap a 4-carriage with an 8-carriage from the southside. We haven't heard a peep from them so presumably they can spare it.

it's not as simple as taking an 8 car from the southside as the 8 car doesn't just stay on the south side but comes north. to take an 8 car from the south side you are going to have to terminate short, meaning you take capacity from them and in turn quite possibly cause there to be a capacity problem where one possibly doesn't exist currently.

devnull · 20-09-2018 10:06pm

ixoy wrote: »

A far far bigger number, let's be honest. The ones who benefit, like those who are those starting early at East Point which is nothing next to the thousands who are trying to get just get into town without being crushed, delayed, or not even boarding the damn train (and that includes Clongriffin sometimes it would seem!)

Clongriffin does very well from a frequency point of view though, it was pretty much every half an hour first half of peak at the old timetable and now it's every 20 minutes so that's for sure an improvement. Remember little of the commuters would stop there, they didn't get to see the same number that Portmarnock saw for instance.

Those getting a Malahide DART in the evening time were shafted though with the 40 minute gap between them which was ridiculous, since often you'd wait for one, not be able to get on and the next one, 40 minutes later, you also could not be sure of getting on whilst you saw plenty of Howth's with plenty of room.

That being said, whilst the old timetable wasn't perfect for everyone as I've illustrated above,with the constraints of the rolling stock numbers we had, could they have fixed the issues in the old one without much bigger wider changes? Possibly, although Irish Rail spent years saying some of the above issues could not be fixed without mass changes.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 20-09-2018 10:11pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

A few weeks are not over. The data PROVES that this is a better service for all commuters). You had become habituated and institutionalised to the old service but a new world of higher frequency and faster trains is just around the corner.

Where’s that data?

ixoy · 20-09-2018 10:35pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's not as simple as taking an 8 car from the southside as the 8 car doesn't just stay on the south side but comes north. to take an 8 car from the south side you are going to have to terminate short, meaning you take capacity from them and in turn quite possibly cause there to be a capacity problem where one possibly doesn't exist currently.

Well I mean swap around a rush-hour train. Time it so that was a 8-carriage train coming from the southside hitting the likes of Tara Street around 08:45 is now a 4-carriage, swapped in for say the Howth southbound DART that arrives at the same time that is currently a 4 carriage. We're not terminating any trains, looking for any extra trrains, just changing the timings of their arrivals. Maybe it'll make things more uncomfortable for some southbound services but allow them to still get in without anyone having to miss multiple trains in a row.

Sure you're robbing Peter to pay Paul, but Paul is bloody broke now, cup in hand, "Can you spare some carriages for the trainless?"

end of the road · 20-09-2018 10:57pm

ixoy wrote: »

Well I mean swap around a rush-hour train. Time it so that was a 8-carriage train coming from the southside hitting the likes of Tara Street around 08:45 is now a 4-carriage, swapped in for say the Howth southbound DART that arrives at the same time that is currently a 4 carriage. We're not terminating any trains, looking for any extra trrains, just changing the timings of their arrivals. Maybe it'll make things more uncomfortable for some southbound services but allow them to still get in without anyone having to miss multiple trains in a row.

Sure you're robbing Peter to pay Paul, but Paul is bloody broke now, cup in hand, "Can you spare some carriages for the trainless?"

yeah i get what you mean now. however there is still the problem of potentially causing a capacity issue on the south side where by the looks of it there isn't a capacity problem that we know of, which means the issues currently existing are extended further which would not be a good idea in my view.
at least as things are the issues are contained to the north branches, which granted isn't any good to you and others effected, but at least there is the potential to slightly minimise the issues short term by stopping all the suburbans at portmarnock and clongriffen at rush hour if there is capacity on those services to help out.

ThunbergsAreGo · 21-09-2018 7:02am

To be fair, I think some of the issues is timing

With schools colleges back I think we would have seen some of this anyways. More and more living Northside and commuting to town

New or old timetable it cannot cope

ohnonotgmail · 21-09-2018 9:08am

naughtb4 wrote: »

To be fair, I think some of the issues is timing

With schools colleges back I think we would have seen some of this anyways. More and more living Northside and commuting to town

New or old timetable it cannot cope

the timetable did not change until the 9th. the schools were back before then and we did not have the current problems.

Zulu · 21-09-2018 9:27am

Sh1t show again at Connolly last night. Train to malahide was late, arrived at about 18:05 and was full. At Connolly. Full. I pushed on, but few else up my end got on.

The service is an utter failure if it fails to service a centre station at peak rush hour

Bravo IE <slow clap>

PCros · 21-09-2018 10:44am

Zulu wrote: »

Sh1t show again at Connolly last night. Train to malahide was late, arrived at about 18:05 and was full. At Connolly. Full. I pushed on, but few else up my end got on.

I was on that one from Pearse and totally agree - its not a full train like it used to be.

ThunbergsAreGo · 21-09-2018 11:13am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the timetable did not change until the 9th. the schools were back before then and we did not have the current problems.

Were the colleges?

they need more/longer trains

ohnonotgmail · 21-09-2018 11:28am

naughtb4 wrote: »

Were the colleges?

they need more/longer trains

I dont think all the colleges are back yet. But it is not the colleges or the schools that is the issue. We didnt have these issues last september. We are having them this september. Maybe it is just a coincidence that we are having these issues immediately after a timetable change?

hots · 21-09-2018 12:04pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

A few weeks are not over. The data PROVES that this is a better service for all commuters). You had become habituated and institutionalised to the old service but a new world of higher frequency and faster trains is just around the corner.

Source?

marieholmfan · 21-09-2018 1:36pm

Zulu wrote: »

Sh1t show again at Connolly last night. Train to malahide was late, arrived at about 18:05 and was full. At Connolly. Full. I pushed on, but few else up my end got on.

The service is an utter failure if it fails to service a centre station at peak rush hour

Bravo IE <slow clap>

There would have been a train following about 2 minutes later. The good news story is that the people who didn't push on got a comfortable journey.

marieholmfan · 21-09-2018 1:37pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

Were the colleges?

they need more/longer trains

That isn't on the cards for financial reasons. Irish Rail are doing more with less.

ohnonotgmail · 21-09-2018 1:42pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

That isn't on the cards for financial reasons. Irish Rail are doing more with less.

Any chance of linking to the data you mentioned? The experience on the ground does not seem to match this "data".

end of the road · 21-09-2018 1:51pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

There would have been a train following about 2 minutes later. The good news story is that the people who didn't push on got a comfortable journey.

source?

marieholmfan wrote: »

That isn't on the cards for financial reasons. Irish Rail are doing more with less.

incorrect. irish rail are not doing more with less, but are doing the same as they were before, all be it they are now spreading their capacity thin via an increased frequency, which by the looks of the real data, isn't benefiting the people like it could and should.
what are these "financial" reasons that are preventing longer trains from being on the cards? it's certainly not lack of money as there is plenty of money in the country. trains will take time to tender and order and build but that's nothing really to do with "financial reasons"

Decuc500 · 21-09-2018 2:11pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

There would have been a train following about 2 minutes later. The good news story is that the people who didn't push on got a comfortable journey.

And that train would have been going to Howth. Not a good news story for passengers going to Malahide, Portmarnock or Clongriffin.

Zulu · 21-09-2018 2:31pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

There would have been a train following about 2 minutes later. The good news story is that the people who didn't push on got a comfortable journey.

Good girl Marie; top marks for entirely missing the point.

bk · 21-09-2018 5:00pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

That isn't on the cards for financial reasons. Irish Rail are doing more with less.

Actually they are, the government has put aside 2 billion for the DART Expansion project and they are currently preparing a tender for a large number of new trains.

Of course that won't sort the immediate issues. Though the refurbishment of the 2,700 class which are due to be introduced around the end of the year, start of next year, will allow ICR's down the country to be moved to Dublin and boost capacity.

end of the road · 21-09-2018 5:29pm

bk wrote: »

Actually they are, the government has put aside 2 billion for the DART Expansion project and they are currently preparing a tender for a large number of new trains.

Of course that won't sort the immediate issues. Though the refurbishment of the 2,700 class which are due to be introduced around the end of the year, start of next year, will allow ICR's down the country to be moved to Dublin and boost capacity.

i'd be surprised if it isn't the 2800s they are swapped with or they don't stay in the dublin area themselves. either 27 or 2800 would offer a lot more capacity over all then an ICR.

Rashers72 · 21-09-2018 10:18pm

Lots of delays tonight [Friday]. Not sure what went wrong. Bigger problem seems to be delayed communication also. 1 hour delays to Maynooth, but also other routes. Lots of customer tweets unanswered.

Stephen15 · 21-09-2018 10:23pm

end of the road wrote: »

i'd be surprised if it isn't the 2800s they are swapped with or they don't stay in the dublin area themselves. either 27 or 2800 would offer a lot more capacity over all then an ICR.

I would hope so the ICRs are not suitable for commuter work

end of the road · 21-09-2018 11:32pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I would hope so the ICRs are not suitable for commuter work

completely agree. it doesn't look like that particular issue will be addressed though.

Conchir · 22-09-2018 12:08am

Rashers72 wrote: »

Lots of delays tonight [Friday]. Not sure what went wrong. Bigger problem seems to be delayed communication also. 1 hour delays to Maynooth, but also other routes. Lots of customer tweets unanswered.

I haven't seen the Irish Rail twitter tonight so can't comment on that specifically, but I have to say that whoever runs the Irish Rail account generally does a great job and has been getting through a trojan amount of work in the last couple of weeks with all the flak directed at them. I wouldn't want their job.

Atlantic Dawn · 22-09-2018 12:31am

Why don't they have 8 carriages on every single train between first train in the morning and 10am?

end of the road · 22-09-2018 1:40am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why don't they have 8 carriages on every single train between first train in the morning and 10am?

basically as said already there aren't enough units to have all 8 car trains and run a 10 minute frequency. there are only enough units to allow either a mostly 6 to 8 car service at a lesser frequency, or a mostly 4/6 with some 8 car service at the 10 minute frequency.

Cloudio9 · 22-09-2018 1:23pm

So they should reduce the frequency, increase the train capacity and there will be fewer delays.

Sam Russell · 22-09-2018 1:35pm

Cloudio9 wrote: »

So they should reduce the frequency, increase the train capacity and there will be fewer delays.

I went into town last night on the Dart. The train was running late, with a 15 min to next train, and then the driver left the doors open for a lot longer than normal, and drove the train slower than normal. The return journey was almost the same, with the driver slowing between stations, despite the previous train being at least 12 minutes ahead.

I think there is some sort of driver (in)action going on.

thomasj · 22-09-2018 5:15pm

Cancellations tonight as per Irish rail Twitter:

17:30hrs Malahide Bray
19:25hrs Bray Howth
20:45hrs Howth Bray
22:10hrs Bray Howth

Rashers72 · 23-09-2018 11:06am

Another bad night for customers on Darts, Maynooth and Drogheda trains. Aside from the published cancellations lots of delays to anything going near Connolly Sat evening. But main issue seems to lack of communication. Also with all the suburban trains @ weekend going from Connolly now, passengers missed their trains as they waited on the Dart platforms where they went from previously. Suggest they make announcements every few minutes @ weekends for next month reminding everyone.

trellheim · 23-09-2018 11:40am

Surely there must be a timetable run possible that has peaks inbound 8 Carr in the rush and outbound 8s in the evening, cover the missing other directions with a dmu you can’t tell me the whole fleet is on the road

noodler · 23-09-2018 11:42am

Getting very difficult to squeeze in at raheny under new system.

People at Killester and clontarf have little chance.

Can't go on.

Deviso · 23-09-2018 11:49am

noodler wrote: »

Getting very difficult to squeeze in at raheny under new system.

People at Killester and clontarf have little chance.

Can't go on.

One benefit of having the option of Clongriffin or Bayside as my local stations. I'll always get on.

ThunbergsAreGo · 23-09-2018 12:20pm

Deviso wrote: »

One benefit of having the option of Clongriffin or Bayside as my local stations. I'll always get on.

The population of North Dublin really needs to push transport and commuting times as an election issue

I actually don't understand the weekend termination of commuters at Connolly. It's adds twenty minutes onto any commutes to the South side for what can only be minimal benefit

end of the road · 23-09-2018 1:38pm

trellheim wrote: »

Surely there must be a timetable run possible that has peaks inbound 8 Carr in the rush and outbound 8s in the evening, cover the missing other directions with a dmu you can’t tell me the whole fleet is on the road

apart from EMU sets out for maintenence i believe the rest are out working. there aren't any more DMUS availible to cover the dart shortage without taking capacity from other services. stopping the suburbans at portmarnock and clongriffin i think is about the only thing that can be done and i'm sure the users of those services are going to love that.

thomasj · 23-09-2018 3:56pm

Just seen this tweet by Irish rail regarding the Drogheda train running from Malahide to cut back on delays.

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1043874193572601857?s=19

thomasj · 24-09-2018 9:21am

08.40 Connolly Maynooth left Maynooth 30 minutes late and not expected in Connolly until 09:50 (usual ETA in Connolly is 09:20)

No announcement by Irish rail on social media and they didn't answer a single query from people asking where the train was.

marieholmfan · 24-09-2018 9:24am

thomasj wrote: »

08.40 Connolly Maynooth left Maynooth 30 minutes late and not expected in Connolly until 09:50 (usual ETA in Connolly is 09:20)

No announcement by Irish rail on social media and they didn't answer a single query from people asking where the train was.

Do you work for Virgin trains or something? Yes mistakes happen but I never see a message from you about the dozens of journeys that start and finish on time!

thomasj · 24-09-2018 9:33am

marieholmfan wrote:

Do you work for Virgin trains or something? Yes mistakes happen but I never see a message from you about the dozens of journeys that start and finish on time!

I'm a passenger just like most people on here that have put up with constant delays since the new timetable.

And when it comes to my line the Maynooth line there has been very few, if any occasions of trains running on time since the new timetable, well in my experience anyway.

loyatemu · 24-09-2018 9:53am

marieholmfan wrote: »

Do you work for Virgin trains or something? Yes mistakes happen but I never see a message from you about the dozens of journeys that start and finish on time!

why would he complain about trains being on time - that's the least we should be expecting from Irish Rail.

marieholmfan · 24-09-2018 9:57am

loyatemu wrote: »

why would he complain about trains being on time - that's the least we should be expecting from Irish Rail.

Is this discussion just for complaints? No congratulations or thanks for a well run service!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

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