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Mark your diaries! Pope Frank coming to Ireland - August 2018

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Comments

  • #202
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    I'm really starting to get fûcked off with what this event is going to do to my city.

    It's going to be a disaster zone all weekend.

    Looks very likely to be the case; https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0801/982349-pope-mass-phoenix-park/
    Organisers of the Closing mass of the World Meeting of Families in Phoenix Park have said that the infrastructure in Dublin cannot cater for all people who have indicated that they are planning to travel to the event by car.

    Sounds like a nice day to take the bike into the hills and leave the nonsense in the city to the masses and their masses ;)


  • #203
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,507 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    So they're organising it, but the best they can do is issue a statement that they can't actually do so properly? How is that organisation then? If someone dies because of traffic jams caused by their knees-up, will that be just god's will?

    Surely the whole point of having to get permission for large scale public events is to ensure that they are done safely? Announcing that "the infra structure can't cope" is not a safety measure - it's a reason to call the thing off, IMO.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #204
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    volchitsa wrote: »
    So they're organising it, but the best they can do is issue a statement that they can't actually do so properly? How is that organisation then? If someone dies because of traffic jams caused by their knees-up, will that be just god's will?

    Surely the whole point of having to get permission for large scale public events is to ensure that they are done safely? Announcing that "the infra structure can't cope" is not a safety measure - it's a reason to call the thing off, IMO.

    To put it bluntly, once I don't have to have any involvement, I'd categorise it under don't know, don't care. Let the Pope's fanbase have their day out and if poor logistics wipes a few of them out, chalk it down to misadventure no more than if they'd fallen of Croagh Patrick on reek Sunday. As has been said already, I'd expect the elderly to be make up a large part of the contingent, so the concern would be more about sufficient paramedics and supporting facilities. That said, how they live their lives and the risks they choose to take is none of my business.


  • #205
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Is there not something else in Croke Park as well ?


  • #206
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,690 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    My wife's choir will be one of the choirs at the gig on the day, she had opted out which was fine but said she would do recordings they will be doing as a backup. She now says she is curious too see how it all sounds so will probably end up watching the mass :pac: , they paid the choir well though :D

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #207
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    silverharp wrote: »
    My wife's choir will be one of the choirs at the gig on the day, she had opted out which was fine but said she would do recordings they will be doing as a backup. She now says she is curious too see how it all sounds so will probably end up watching the mass :pac: , they paid the choir well though :D
    Are you going to go along then?
    You can always say that you're only going to support her ;).


  • #208
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,690 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    recedite wrote: »
    Are you going to go along then?
    You can always say that you're only going to support her ;).

    ah here that's a bridge too far, if she can record it and fast forward it through for me Ill listen to the Cliff Notes version. Still amusing I guess that Frank will be serenaded by a bunch of mostly atheists :)

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #209
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    silverharp wrote: »
    ah here that's a bridge too far, if she can record it and fast forward it through for me Ill listen to the Cliff Notes version. Still amusing I guess that Frank will be serenaded by a bunch of mostly atheists :)

    And will no doubt gall the hierarchy that they're paid atheists at that. Says alot when that many Christians can't even muster a decent choir :pac:


  • #210
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    I wonder if robindch will be playing his organ at the event?


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  • #211
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    recedite wrote: »
    I wonder if robindch will be playing his organ at the event?
    Indeed, yes. Will be accompanying Bocelli and plan to go a little off-script in the middle of the Daniel O'Donnell.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45065032


  • #212
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    It's not inconsistent, because abortions aren't performed on babies.
    What is inconsistent is to pretend to be concerned about abortions to distract from the murder of hundreds of children.

    You lost the referendum and yet you are still betraying the same fake morality - you "care" about babies in the womb but don't give a crap once they are born.
    Fake mortality? Nothing magic happens at birth. It is just a stage in the contiuum of development.


  • #213
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Weaned onto what, baguettes?

    Even so, celiac disease is only prevalent in about 1% of the population, and only becomes fatal through development of lymphomas (i.e. cancers) that take a long time (decades) to develop. It doesn't account for the hundreds of deaths in Tuam.
    Actually it contributes to malnourishment which will contribute to mortality. It is hilarious that you are trying to deny this as the cause of celiac disease was actually discovered in a Dutch peadric ward. During WWII bread shortages a doctor in this ward noticed their child mortalit drop from 35% to 0.

    In many societies babies were weaned with cereal gruels known as pap but I am suppose I am making this up because of my fake mortality only concerns the unborn :pac:


  • #214
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,507 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    Actually it contributes to malnourishment which will contribute to mortality. It is hilarious that you are trying to deny this as the cause of celiac disease was actually discovered in a Dutch peadric ward. During WWII bread shortages this ward noticed their 35% mortality drop to 0.

    In many societies babies were weaned with cereal gruels known known as pap but I am suppose I am making this up because of my fake mortality only concerns about the unborn :pac:

    The paediatric death rate from coeliac disease among the general population was tiny, even when whole generations were raised on pap.

    The ones you mention were children who were hospitalised because they were so ill with a then-undiagnosed illness that turned out to be coeliac disease.

    The idea that you can extrapolate from those figures to explain the high death rates of a group of children who were institutionalised for entirely different, social, reasons is laughable.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #215
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    robindch wrote: »
    Indeed, yes. Will be accompanying Bocelli and plan to go a little off-script in the middle of the Daniel O'Donnell.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45065032
    Chance would be a fine thing :D
    I can't stand Daniel's crooning.


    I hear the popular singing priest Fr. Kelly has been shafted. They are getting somebody else to sing his party piece, I think its either Daniel or Nathan Carter.
    But sometimes these guys apparently have to be put back in their place; that's how a hierarchy works.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVe8SA_E0aM


  • #216
    Bredabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,174 ✭✭✭Bredabe


    I saw an ad in a national paper the other day, for two papal packages.
    One package was a high res tv with surround sound, loop speakers and remote with extra large buttons, 90e
    The other was a tea/coffee reception in a north-west hotel, finger food, big screen tv to watch the events, optional meals at a reduced rate, free bus parking and a subsidised bus to within 100 miles when the tv coverage had finished. Approx 120e

    "Have you ever wagged your tail so hard you fell over"?-Brod Higgins.



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  • #217
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    I wonder if there are any pope-free special weekend packages available in the north east?


  • #218
    Under His Eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    Ian Paisley Jr is at a loose end. He should help anyone in their pope free quest.


  • #219
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    I heard he was organising free trips to Tahiti. With marching lessons up and down the beach.
    No answer from his phone now though, the offer must have ended :(


  • #220
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,140 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    recedite wrote: »
    Chance would be a fine thing :D
    I can't stand Daniel's crooning.


    I hear the popular singing priest Fr. Kelly has been shafted. They are getting somebody else to sing his party piece, I think its either Daniel or Nathan Carter.
    But sometimes these guys apparently have to be put back in their place; that's how a hierarchy works.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVe8SA_E0aM


    afaik, it will be recorded the day before and they'll mime on the day. Something to do with recording rights.


  • #221
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,541 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    recedite wrote: »
    I hear the popular singing priest Fr. Kelly has been shafted.

    there was a hilarious episode of Liveline the other week with him on the phone (talk about full of himself :rolleyes: ), some ultracatholic nutter who was disgusted that DO'D who advocated a Yes vote for marriage equality would be performing and DO'D should "say sorry", a loo-lah from Limerick who sent a poem to Frankie a couple of years ago and attributes his decision to visit here to her poem - oh and she just happens to be a singer too and wants to sing for him - a couple of voices of relative reason, and a lot of rowing and "Joe. Joe. Joe. Joe. Joe." It almost descended into classic "I didn't interrupt you" politician-style BS. Comedy gold.

    [url=http://www.rte.ie/cspodcasts/media.mp3?c1=2&c2=16951747&ns_site=test&ns_type=clickin&rte_vs_ct=aud&rte_vs_sc=pod&rte_mt_sec=radio&rte_vs_sn=radio1&rte_mt_pub_dt=2018-07-23&rte_mt_prg_name=test-liveline&title=Pope%20Concert&c7=http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2018/0723/20180723_rteradio1-liveline-popeconcer_c21403547_21403550_232_.mp3&r=http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2018/0723/20180723_rteradio1-liveline-popeconcer_c21403547_21403550_232_.mp3[/url]Link[/url]

    Scrap the cap!



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  • #222
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,507 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    Fake mortality? Nothing magic happens at birth. It is just a stage in the contiuum of development.

    Nothing "magic" happens, and life is indeed a continuum [/including sperm and egg cells, but so what? Try making a baby from dead sperm, see how far you get. So should we ban spermicide gels because they kill human life?

    And while I agree that nothing magic happens at birth, it's not the case that nothing significant happens : the fetus stops relying on someone else's organs to survive and becomes an autonomous living being.

    That's significant. Before birth, the woman is a human life support machine. She's entitled to be able to give her consent for such a massive imposition on her body. The only reason that hasn't been the case traditionally is because women were legally men's chattels. Once people agreed that this was unacceptable, it was only a matter of time before it became obvious that forced pregnancy was unacceptable too.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #223
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    volchitsa wrote: »
    And while I agree that nothing magic happens at birth, it's not the case that nothing significant happens : the fetus stops relying on someone else's organs to survive and becomes an autonomous living being.

    That's significant. Before birth, the woman is a human life support machine. She's entitled to be able to give her consent for such a massive imposition on her body. The only reason that hasn't been the case traditionally is because women were legally men's chattels. Once people agreed that this was unacceptable, it was only a matter of time before it became obvious that forced pregnancy was unacceptable too.
    That is one seriously warped feminazi attitude you have. Its only very recently in human history that new born infants have been capable of surviving without a woman - since formula milk and hospital incubators were invented. That's not down to the chauvinistic attitude of men, its human biology.


    Perhaps in future, women (or alternatively men) won't be needed at all in human reproduction. Will you be happy then?


    And BTW a sperm is alive, but it is not an independent human life. It is only a shortlived extension of its producer's DNA. Same goes for a human egg cell. But when they get together, something special happens. Its a new and different life.


  • #224
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,541 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    recedite wrote: »
    That is one seriously warped feminazi attitude you have.

    This sort of nonsense reflects extremely badly on you and it reflects your dearth of rational arguments.

    Its only very recently in human history that new born infants have been capable of surviving without a woman

    A woman. I presume you've heard of wet nurses.

    The situation is the same today - any competent adult with the right resources to hand can care for a newborn, the person who gave birth to the newborn need not.

    Perhaps in future, women (or alternatively men) won't be needed at all in human reproduction. Will you be happy then?

    What's the problem? It would mean that only those who wish to be pregnant and wish to give birth will have to do so. Presumably that would mean fewer abortions. Wouldn't you be in favour of that?
    And BTW a sperm is alive, but it is not an independent human life. It is only a shortlived extension of its producer's DNA. Same goes for a human egg cell. But when they get together, something special happens. Its a new and different life.

    An embryo or foetus is not an independent human life, either. But surely you know that.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #225
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    An embryo or foetus is not an independent human life, either. But surely you know that.
    Neither is a new born infant capable of an "independent" existence, but its life is independent of its parents in terms of having its own potential and having its own unique DNA mix.

    So if physical independence is your main criteria, there is nothing wrong with the Yanomami practice of aborting unwanted newborns. After all, its much safer for women than the coathanger method, and the new borns would never survive on their own. And its their culture, their choice...right?

    Anyway, this is the wrong thread for abortion discussion. I'll leave it at that.


  • #226
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,507 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    recedite wrote: »
    Neither is a new born infant capable of an "independent" existence,
    In the purely biological sense, yes they are. None of us are capable of a truly independent existence, except I guess some of those survivalist people - possibly. But that's a very different use of the word independent. A fetus cannot breathe or regulate its own metabolism - those very basic functions are performed by the woman inside whom it is living. For much of its time in the womb it is barely more alive than the egg and sperm from which it developed.
    recedite wrote: »
    but its life is independent of its parents in terms of having its own potential and having its own unique DNA mix.
    Not if it's an identifical twin - and so what anyway? A potential life is not the same as an actual one. I have a potential job lined up - that doesn't mean I have that job, in fact it means I don't have it.
    recedite wrote: »
    So if physical independence is your main criteria, there is nothing wrong with the Yanomami practice of aborting unwanted newborns. After all, its much safer for women than the coathanger method, and the new borns would never survive on their own. And its their culture, their choice...right?
    You can't abort newborns. By definition. :roll:
    recedite wrote: »
    Anyway, this is the wrong thread for abortion discussion. I'll leave it at that.
    Mmm. After a good go at misrepresentation and inaccuracy first all the same.
    Bit pathetic TBH. We've been over all that nonsense, and people didn't believe it.
    Why would you think they will be taken in if you repeat it now?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #227
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    recedite wrote: »
    That is one seriously warped feminazi attitude you have.

    The referendum is over, you lost. Let it go.


  • #228
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    The referendum is over, you lost. Let it go.
    I am glad conservatives didn't try to implement this chilling effect tactic on the opposition in 1983. Irish liberals need a hell of a lot more liberalism.


  • #229
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    recedite wrote: »
    That is one seriously warped feminazi attitude you have.

    And that is one seriously bad way to start a post. Any chance of getting treated seriously just went out the window with that one. Seriously.


  • #230
    Under His Eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    I am glad conservatives didn't try to implement this chilling effect tactic on the opposition in 1983. Irish liberals need a hell of a lot more liberalism.
    They just sat there smugly for 35 years.


  • #231
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    I am glad conservatives didn't try to implement this chilling effect tactic on the opposition in 1983. Irish liberals need a hell of a lot more liberalism.

    The Catholic church have been playing the 'might is right' card since this country got independence. They'd tell you this is a Catholic country, as demonstrated by the census, so the Catholic church should enjoy undue privilege. Guess what though, most Irish Catholics don't stand behind that church as shown by the last couple of referendums, the total lack of anyone joining the clergy anymore and mass attendances falling like a lead balloon. I reckon the only reason Frankie is coming to town is as a last ditch firefighting effort on behalf of the Vatican. Looking forward to seeing the age and nationality profile of those who do show up. I'll take a wild punt and say young and even middle aged Irish people will be grossly underrepresented. What do you reckon?


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  • #232
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,541 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    I am glad conservatives didn't try to implement this chilling effect tactic on the opposition in 1983. Irish liberals need a hell of a lot more liberalism.

    They did exactly that. Even five years ago we were being told that the Irish people would never accept the legalisation of abortion...

    And no you're really not glad, are you?

    Scrap the cap!



  • #233
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Sunday 26th Aug Colm O'Gorman is organising a 'Stand for Truth' protest in the Garden of Remembrance. If anyone is interested in going to that instead. That's certainly where I'll be.


  • #234
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    I am glad conservatives didn't try to implement this chilling effect tactic on the opposition in 1983.


    They did, in 1983 and continuously ever since until the day they lost.


  • #235
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    smacl wrote: »
    The Catholic church have been playing the 'might is right' card since this country got independence. They'd tell you this is a Catholic country, as demonstrated by the census, so the Catholic church should enjoy undue privilege. Guess what though, most Irish Catholics don't stand behind that church as shown by the last couple of referendums, the total lack of anyone joining the clergy anymore and mass attendances falling like a lead balloon. I reckon the only reason Frankie is coming to town is as a last ditch firefighting effort on behalf of the Vatican. Looking forward to seeing the age and nationality profile of those who do show up. I'll take a wild punt and say young and even middle aged Irish people will be grossly underrepresented. What do you reckon?


    smacl?: You are wrong but I cant specify how.



    :pac:


  • #236
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    Sunday 26th Aug Colm O'Gorman is organising a 'Stand for Truth' protest in the Garden of Remembrance. If anyone is interested in going to that instead. That's certainly where I'll be.
    That is a little insincere coming from Colm O'Gorman. If you want to work to make the church and the world a better place holding placards and disrupting people achieves nothing positive, while working in the church might actually what you hope.


  • #237
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    That is a little insincere coming from Colm O'Gorman. If you want to work to make the church and the world a better place holding placards and disrupting people achieves nothing positive, while working in the church might actually what you hope.

    Eh the protest is nowhere near the mass in the park, it's in the city centre. No disruption to anyone unlike the mass itself.


  • #238
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,507 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    That is a little insincere coming from Colm O'Gorman. If you want to work to make the church and the world a better place holding placards and disrupting people achieves nothing positive, while working in the church might actually what you hope.
    So you support Mary McAleese then, do you? Working from within and that?

    Or do you have some alleged reason not to take her issues on board either?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #239
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Do you think the Pope will attract new recruits to the catholics? Has he got the va va voom?


  • #240
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    volchitsa wrote: »
    So you support Mary McAleese then, do you? Working from within and that?

    Or do you have some alleged reason not to take her issues on board either?
    It is nether here nor there. We dont know what he intended. Ahern provided a bit more detail. Sounds like the Woods deal. That Rome official retired 12 years ago so it is a historical matter.


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Eh the protest is nowhere near the mass in the park, it's in the city centre. No disruption to anyone unlike the mass itself.
    True, I was speaking generally because some are disruptive brownshirt-style seat blocking by say nope to the pope.


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  • #241
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,541 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    Sunday 26th Aug Colm O'Gorman is organising a 'Stand for Truth' protest in the Garden of Remembrance. If anyone is interested in going to that instead.

    If they're able to get in, with the city more or less on lockdown... :rolleyes:

    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    That is a little insincere coming from Colm O'Gorman. If you want to work to make the church and the world a better place holding placards and disrupting people achieves nothing positive, while working in the church might actually what you hope.

    Getting the church to comply with the law of the land would be a start. I couldn't give a fiddlers what doctrines this church teaches, it's their failure to protect children while sheilding abusers and still doing the latter to this day, denying adoptees access to records, refusing to pay compensation, etc. etc. which concern me.

    The idea that anything the laity do will result in doctrinal change in the RCC is laughable.

    PS You might be interested to learn that most people posting in this forum are no longer, or never were, catholics. In an atheist forum, imagine!

    Scrap the cap!



  • #242
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    If they're able to get in, with the city more or less on lockdown... :rolleyes:




    Getting the church to comply with the law of the land would be a start. I couldn't give a fiddlers what doctrines this church teaches, it's their failure to protect children while shielding abusers and still doing the latter to this day, denying adoptees access to records, refusing to pay compensation, etc. etc. which concern me.

    The idea that anything the laity do will result in doctrinal change in the RCC is laughable.

    PS You might be interested to learn that most people posting in this forum are no longer, or never were, catholics. In an atheist forum, imagine!
    With the sentiment in this country it is unthinable that the church is openly breaking such serious laws.

    There is no right to seeing birth records, especially when the mothers were given the right to privacy. It is a legal matter not church actually.


    The church doesnt owe a dime. A number of orders do but they are paying what they owe and over 96% has already been paid.



    No Irish child abusers are being shielded in Rome. Extremely few irish clerics would even have any business living in Rome.



    Who ever thought the atheist form would be so full of spoofers.


  • #243
    Under His Eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    Funny that coming from spoofer central, i.e. the Christianity forum.

    Atheists cannot post there. Funny that.


  • #244
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    That is a little insincere coming from Colm O'Gorman. If you want to work to make the church and the world a better place holding placards and disrupting people achieves nothing positive, while working in the church might actually what you hope.

    You're actually making me laugh now :pac:

    You haven't an actual clue :D


  • #245
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    An_Toirpin wrote: »

    True, I was speaking generally because some are disruptive brownshirt-style seat blocking by say nope to the pope.

    No you weren't. You were replying to a post about Colm O'Gorman's protest, specifically.


  • #246
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,507 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    volchitsa wrote: »
    So you support Mary McAleese then, do you? Working from within and that?

    Or do you have some alleged reason not to take her issues on board either?
    It is nether here nor there. We dont know what he intended. Ahern provided a bit more detail. Sounds like the Woods deal. That Rome official retired 12 years ago so it is a historical matter.
    That's not a reply to my question.
    I asked whether, since you objected to an 'outsider' like O'Gorman protesting, and suggested people should be working from within for change, what you think of McAleese's declarations about homosexuality and the church. Can't get much more of an insider than her, after all.

    And I see on another thread some people objecting to her wanting to change from within. They think she should leave if she disagrees.

    So I'm curious. Seems like nobody is allowed to criticise at all for some.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



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  • #247
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,507 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    volchitsa wrote: »
    So you support Mary McAleese then, do you? Working from within and that?

    Or do you have some alleged reason not to take her issues on board either?
    It is nether here nor there. We dont know what he intended. Ahern provided a bit more detail. Sounds like the Woods deal. That Rome official retired 12 years ago so it is a historical matter.
    That's not a reply to my question.
    I asked whether, since you objected to an 'outsider' like O'Gorman protesting, and suggested people should be working from within for change, what you think of McAleese's declarations about homosexuality and the church. Can't get much more of an insider than her, after all.

    Because I see on another thread some people objecting to her wanting to change from within. They think she should leave if she disagrees.

    So I'm curious. Seems like nobody is allowed to criticise at all for some.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #248
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    volchitsa wrote: »
    That's not a reply to my question.
    I asked whether, since you objected to an 'outsider' like O'Gorman protesting, and suggested people should be working from within for change, what you think of McAleese's declarations about homosexuality and the church. Can't get much more of an insider than her, after all.

    Because I see on another thread some people objecting to her wanting to change from within. They think she should leave if she disagrees.

    So I'm curious. Seems like nobody is allowed to criticise at all for some.
    Everyone is allowed to criticize. People simply take McAleese more seriously. Even is she annouces she is now Anglican people will see take her more seriously because seems to actually want a reformed Catholicism. In contrast a lot of other critics just want it wipied from the face of the earth.


  • #249
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    You are wrong but I cant specify how.

    Hmmm, generally if you call someone wrong, you have some inkling as to why that is the case and make an argument to support your assertion. Maybe you could explain your statement?


  • #250
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    smacl wrote: »
    Hmmm, generally if you call someone wrong, you have some inkling as to why that is the case and make an argument to support your assertion. Maybe you could explain your statement?
    I was summerizing your comment. You made a ridiculous' 'might is right' card' claim with no evidence. None.



    Interesting to hear Colm O'Gorman on the radio today, making false statements about Vatican cover up. :pac:


  • #251
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    recedite wrote: »
    That is one seriously warped feminazi attitude you have.
    A little less rhetoric and a little more civility would help you make your point better.


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