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Mark your diaries! Pope Frank coming to Ireland - August 2018

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  • 31-03-2017 10:57am
    #1
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Next August, Pope Frank is going to board an aircraft somewhere - I'm assuming he's not coming via Irish Ferries or Stena Line - and take off for a six-day visit to Ireland from the 21st to the 26th of August.

    No activities have been positively confirmed yet, but it's understood that he's hoping to attend something called the "World Meeting of Families" taking place in Clonliffe College on those dates. And he has written a covering letter which stops a little short of confirming anything at all really.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/vatican-confirms-popes-visit-3315575-Mar2017/

    There are no obvious plans at this point to visit anything related to church-run orphanages, mother and child home or anything at all related to the redress scheme. I also imagine that Tuam will not be on his final itinerary either.

    Thoughts?


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    #2
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The conference lasts 6 days; I very much doubt that any papal visit will.

    If there's a visit, I'd be very surprised if he doesn't include a function (separate from the conference) at which he addresses the abuse crisis in some way. Not likely to be a visit to a former Magdalene home or similar, but maybe a meeting with survivors.


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    #3
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Must remember to book the time off work to protest,
    Very much doubt the Vatican will have apologised for its systematic cover up of abuse by then,


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    #4
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    robindch wrote: »
    Next August, Pope Frank is going to board an aircraft somewhere - I'm assuming he's not coming via Irish Ferries or Stena Line - and take off for a six-day visit to Ireland from the 21st to the 26th of August.

    No activities have been positively confirmed yet, but it's understood that he's hoping to attend something called the "World Meeting of Families" taking place in Clonliffe College on those dates. And he has written a covering letter which stops a little short of confirming anything at all really.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/vatican-confirms-popes-visit-3315575-Mar2017/

    There are no obvious plans at this point to visit anything related to church-run orphanages, mother and child home or anything at all related to the redress scheme. I also imagine that Tuam will not be on his final itinerary either.

    Thoughts?

    Which church run orphanage do you think he should visit and what would the visit entail?


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    #5
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Must remember to book the time off work to protest,
    Very much doubt the Vatican will have apologised for its systematic cover up of abuse by then,

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26989991
    Is this not an apology?


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    #6
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    infogiver wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26989991
    Is this not an apology?

    Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words and all that. If they actually made an effort to properly compensate the people affected and complied with requests for information that 'apology' might ring true.


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    #7
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    A few extraditions of the paedos and paedo enablers holed up in the Vatican would be good too.

    Pope Francis visit to Ireland may be ‘shorter than people expect’

    He can step off the plane, hand over the cheque and then f off as far as I'm concerned.

    Oh and asking for forgiveness isn't an apology. An apology benefits the wronged person, forgiveness is for the benefit of the wrongdoer, so even this was self-serving.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #8
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    infogiver wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26989991
    Is this not an apology?

    Its a weak attempt at an apology for the abuse, it is certainly NOT an apology of any kind in relation to the Vatican's systematic cover up of that abuse.
    The two things are very very different,

    The Vatican to date have NOT apologized for their coverup.

    The cover up wasn't an error, or a failure on their part. It was well thought out, it was documented and it had rules and guidelines for people to follow. Trying to claim that the cover up of such horrors was a simple error is like trying to claim the final solution was an error, both were well discussed, documented and had rules and guidelines with a end goal.


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    #9
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words and all that. If they actually made an effort to properly compensate the people affected and complied with requests for information that 'apology' might ring true.
    No, the poster didn't realise that the Vatican had apologised so I'm glad to be able to set that record straight.
    It wasn't difficult to find that link. That apology was reported everywhere.
    What "information" do you think has been witheld by the Vatican and who is it being withheld from?


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    #10
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    A few extraditions of the paedos and paedo enablers holed up in the Vatican would be good too.

    Pope Francis visit to Ireland may be ‘shorter than people expect’

    He can step off the plane, hand over the cheque and then f off as far as I'm concerned.

    Oh and asking for forgiveness isn't an apology. An apology benefits the wronged person, forgiveness is for the benefit of the wrongdoer, so even this was self-serving.

    Has a country or countries served extradition orders on the Vatican that have been rejected?


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    #11
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    infogiver wrote: »
    Has a country or countries served extradition orders on the Vatican that have been rejected?

    Not that I'm aware are of off hand. However Ireland, Australia and the UN all requested records as part of major investigations. All were denied.

    The Vatican is also shamefully resistant to change, don't take my word for it..... Take the word of an abuse victim who dealt with them first hand https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0301/856373-marie-collins/

    The Vatican is big on words, but lacks any meaningful change or actions


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    #12
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    infogiver wrote: »
    No, the poster didn't realise that the Vatican had apologised so I'm glad to be able to set that record straight.

    Except you haven't and you are very much incorrect.

    The Vatican has never apologised for the sex abuse cover up run by them, it's evident you have an issue understanding this.


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    #13
    Bristolscale7
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    My inclination is to show up to the pope's public appearance cross-dressing as a prostitute-nun.


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    #14
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    infogiver wrote: »
    I'm glad to be able to set that record straight.

    Unintentional funny is the best kind of funny.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #15
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,133 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I bet you Belfast is included, as the normalisation continues.

    Although I can't see Arlene or Gregory Campbell queuing up to meet him.


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    #16
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    infogiver wrote: »
    Has a country or countries served extradition orders on the Vatican that have been rejected?

    More deflection.

    You can't make extradition requests where no extradition treaty exists.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #17
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Except you haven't and you are very much incorrect.

    The Vatican has never apologised for the sex abuse cover up run by them, it's evident you have an issue understanding this.

    But it's true that it doesn't matter what type of apology is made and what wording is used you are going to rely on pedantry and semantics to keep beating your drum.
    Pope Francis is a very popular figure throughout the world and the leader of over 1 billion Catholics and growing. Almost every official statement he makes is carried by news agencies everywhere and even the possibility that he will visit Ireland next year even for 48 hours made headline breaking news.
    As much as you would wish that the Pope would be relegated to the status of say Prime Minister of Luxembourg well that's just not going to happen.


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    #18
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    More deflection.

    You can't make extradition requests where no extradition treaty exists.

    Then why are you looking for "paedos" to be extradited?


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    #19
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I bet you Belfast is included, as the normalisation continues.

    Although I can't see Arlene or Gregory Campbell queuing up to meet him.

    I couldn't see Arlene getting into a pew for a IRA funeral mass but she did.


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    #20
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Bristolscale7 wrote: »
    My inclination is to show up to the pope's public appearance cross-dressing as a prostitute-nun.

    You should do that. It'll be hilarious. Don't forget to bring a placard in Portuguese so that he knows what your supposed to be.


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    #21
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    infogiver wrote: »
    Then why are you looking for "paedos" to be extradited?

    Because they are using the Vatican's refusal to enter into extradition treaties to shield themselves from justice.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #22
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    infogiver wrote: »
    You should do that. It'll be hilarious. Don't forget to bring a placard in Portuguese so that he knows what your supposed to be.

    He's not from Brazil.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #23
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,115 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    infogiver wrote: »
    You should do that. It'll be hilarious. Don't forget to bring a placard in Portuguese so that he knows what your supposed to be.

    Why Portuguese?

    I'd be up for the x-dressing, though not sure about the nun bit. Just go as a hooker. Could make a killing... :pac:


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    #24
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    He's not from Brazil.

    He speaks Portuguese though


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    #25
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Why Portuguese?

    I'd be up for the x-dressing, though not sure about the nun bit. Just go as a hooker. Could make a killing... :pac:

    €10 a go should do it


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    #26
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,115 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    infogiver wrote: »
    €10 a go should do it

    Heh, I'd say the Vaticanesers (is that what they're called) would expect it for free.


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    #27
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Heh, I'd say the Vaticanesers (is that what they're called) would expect it for free.

    I'd say they'd get it for free off you, too. Your terribly keen!!


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    #28
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,115 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    infogiver wrote: »
    I'd say they'd get it for free off you, too. Your terribly keen!!

    My terribly keen what?

    Wrong anyway. They wouldn't get it off me, as I'm not up for it, and they prefer the defenceless.


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    #29
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    My terribly keen what?

    Wrong anyway. They wouldn't get it off me, as I'm not up for it, and they prefer the defenceless.

    A few posts ago you were going to go as a cross dressing hooker and make a killing ....


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    #30
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    infogiver wrote: »
    But it's true that it doesn't matter what type of apology is made and what wording is used you are going to rely on pedantry and semantics to keep beating your drum.

    They've not made an apology, they've not made an admission of guilty for the systematic cover up. If it doesn't matter then why not apologise if it's no big deal and you think it won't matter anyway?

    They can't even change the current system to protect children, even abuse victims have confirmed this. They are unwilling to change because they are unwilling to see themselves at fault.

    The fact you are here defending the indefensible shows this mindset isn't confined to the Vatican. Utterly depressing.


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    #31
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    infogiver wrote: »
    You should do that. It'll be hilarious. Don't forget to bring a placard in Portuguese so that he knows what your supposed to be.

    Nah, it wouldn't work. They'd have no interest unless the person is a child. Remind me what was the age of consent in the Vatican until 2013......12 years of age wasn't it?


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