Applying for an SNA

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Hi Shybride2016 and thanks for reaching out.

When the application was submitted it was on the basis of a level 7, the extra person as you rightly point out,however when AIM's asked for further details there was 3 staff in the room so they assigned a level 4 (mentoring), literally 2 weeks after this one of the staff resigned and was not replaced, so now there are 2 staff in the room, on many occasions just the 1, HSE regulation is 1 adult to 11 children, and this guideline is met, however when i protested to the preschool about reapplying to AIM's i was told it was firstly not possible, when i pressed further i was told not necessary, all of this despite the AON report stating it was a requirement for the child's needs. I had 1 solitary meeting with an AIM's Co-ordinator in late August 2019 and not a sound ever since where i am concerned, where the preschool are concerned there has been 2 meetings, the Co-ordinator said level 7 is needed but the powers that be in Dublin are refusing on the grounds that there is adequate staffing, when i rang them they declined to engage with me.

In regards the class he is going into, i know there will be at least 4 other boys all aged 4, one of these was born in December 2015 so will be 9 months older than him, the remaining 3 were all born in the same calendar year (2016), the remainder i have no knowledge of, i actually went to the same school myself as a child.

I would never expect complete 1-1 in primary school for him, he wouldn't need it, just with certain aspects.

He has done 1 year of Creche, at 2 days a week which i found ridiculous but it was all we were offered, and he is now in his first ECCE year, i have informed the preschool that he will not be staying with them for a second year. In relation to the children in his group, he mixes well, is never problematic towards other children and infact is very popular with at least 2 other children despite not being verbal.

As mentioned in an earlier post, if i had a cast iron guarantee on level 7 AIM's or an SNA in early start i would agree to it, they are not willing to give me the assurances, my wife is of the same opinion as myself.

Yes i'm exhausted from the legal argument. Part of the court case centre's around my child only being on the Cork/Kerry waiting lists which are the longest in Munster if not Ireland, 2/3 years minimum for occupational therapy & psychology with Cope Foundation is scandalous to say the least.

Hi again,

There’s a few things in your reply that are concerning me so if you don’t mind me pointing them out it’s in the hope of helping you get support between now and September.

Firstly, IMO a child who has an ASD diagnosis, a flight risk and not toilet trained should absolutely be receiving Level 7 support in the form of an extra member of staff. It’s not clear from your post whether your son is in pull-ups or nappies or has started the toilet training process and is in pants. Regardless, if you and his mum would like to start the process of toilet training the preschool should absolutely be supporting you in this by bringing him into the toilet regularly and encouraging him to follow the toileting routine each time. This means that a member of staff would accompany him into the toilets, therefore the other staff member would remain in the class with the 10 other children.

Secondly, I cannot fathom AIM/Better Start’s reasoning in reducing your son’s level of AIM support from 7 to a 4 after a staff member left. This sounds not only ridiculous but completely wrong. His needs haven’t changed.

I’m so sorry to hear you haven’t had more contact from Better Start either, tbh the whole situation sounds very badly handled by both your son’s preschool and Better Start.

I know you’re focused on getting things in place for Primary School but if you would like to pursue things to make immediate improvements for your son feel free to ask me for help if I can be of any assistance. Your local childcare committee may also be of help if you got in touch with them to explain the current preschool situation.

Again I can only say I’m sorry to hear of the situation you are dealing with. Life with smallies is stressful enough without having to fight legal battles for what he’s due.

Cork Trucker wrote: »

It was a full ASD assessment, 30 minutes with the child in my presence, a 4 hour interview with me and a 10 minute feedback session. It's a constant battle with the HSE, it would make you sick to think how poor our health service is and more importantly the states recognition of children with special needs.

The HSE are a shambles. I hope it works out for you all.
I booked a private cognitive assessment today for my daughter to help with school place. Apparently her report is out of date because it was done at 22 months. I'm hoping I'll get an appointment from the HSE in the meantime (so I can cancel the private one). Our solicitor sent out letters 2 weeks ago

Calhoun wrote: »

You can get the AON redone/reviewed, it was when we went to do this that we found out that the first "AON" was not completed and they never provided us with a service statement.

I said this to the solicitor but he said he didn't see the need. The service statement we had said to be reviewed in Jan 2020 and he said we have them on that. The AON report also said a cognitive assessment should be done when my daughter is of school going age but they are refusing to do that now.
I just hope it's done soon because the private assessment is €600. Alot of money for an hours appointment. The health insurance we have doesn't cover any of it either

irishgirl19 wrote: »

The HSE are a shambles. I hope it works out for you all.
I booked a private cognitive assessment today for my daughter to help with school place. Apparently her report is out of date because it was done at 22 months. I'm hoping I'll get an appointment from the HSE in the meantime (so I can cancel the private one). Our solicitor sent out letters 2 weeks ago

I was told my 3 year old won't need one and I know she's (HSE) fobbing me off on the phone. She told me if and when you think he needs one you just go to your GP who will refer you! I presume that's another fairy tale she told me?

Gatling wrote: »

Pretty standard in preschool settings you can be out of ratio for a toilet break (technically) the service would be in trouble if was any longer than a few minutes,
The same thing would happen in a school teachers leave rooms for various reasons and a single SNA would have 22 kids plus whatever extra needs kids as well ,

Aim tends to be a lottery and limited resources to take on extra staff ,I've previously done aim in a setting and ended up getting next to no support and given a table of 6 other kids that I was told I was their key worker and was supposed to do observations on each child and well as small and large group activities ,and yet no time given to do Aim ,
Remember most preschools are dependent CE workers who's are essentially only training supposed to only do 19.5 hours most get asked to do Aim with little or no extra training ,
While services are only too happy to take on more and more kids as long as they are getting funding from the government

How is the aim funding done then if a playschool cannot find staff is it sent the extra funding once it's approved or do they have to show they hired to get the payments.

Motherof123 wrote: »

I was told my 3 year old won't need one and I know she's (HSE) fobbing me off on the phone. She told me if and when you think he needs one you just go to your GP who will refer you! I presume that's another fairy tale she told me?

Last time we seen our EIT psychologist before Christmas she said I'll see you in Jan, early Feb for the cognitive assessment.
Come to find out at the start of this year she has left and no replacement hired.

The disability officer told me a school can apply for NEPS assessment but it's getting a school place that's the worry for me.

Alot of enrollment forms I've filled out want reports dated within 2 years with special school or classes recommendation. Our report only had preschool recommendations because my daughter was not yet 2 when it was done

Shybride2016 wrote: »

Oh my god, I’m so disheartened reading yet another awful experience with preschool and AIM. In our place we absolutely do everything we can and more for all the kids, including those who have AIM allocated.

With regard to toilet breaks - we do two ECCE sessions with a 10 minute break between when there’s no kids there. That’s when we go to the bathroom. Under absolutely no circumstances would we leave a preschool room when kids who are flight risks are present. It wouldn’t even cross our minds tbh.

AIM can be applied for at any stage of the ECCE year, or during the summer months.

Jesus I’m shocked and saddened reading all of your awful experiences of AIM & ECCE. I don’t know what to say.

You sound like you really love what you do.
And wherever you work sounds extremely well managed and professional.

But Yeah it was a horrible experience we sent him in kicking and screaming in sept told he stops once you leave which he probably did.
He was and still is very attached to
Me so I guess it's seperation anxiety.
He started having night terrors kicking and screaming in his sleep it was awful I'd try to sooth him and he would push me away screaming eyes closed he was still asleep like a night mare I would just sit beside him and wait for it to pass. He would literally scream the house down in his sleep I'm sure it would have woken the neighbours it was a high pitch scream.

I'm sure it's common in kids with ASD I'm not sure.

We had a very long time trying to settle him for school. He would cry going in and come out in an awful mood not always but more often than not.
So after sept I thought he might be ok by December? But he wasn't he was getting worse he was crying a lot I thought maybe his ears were at him!
Even tho he was healthy. He was waking up in very bad moods like I couldn't even get my other kids ready for school he would be so upset.
I put it down to winter long days he loves being out I took him out more in wet gear splashing in water having fun.
Then January came he went in fine but after two weeks back to square one but worse stopped eating his lunch night terrors back.
Waking in very bad moods. I spend the whole day humouring him which is fine but he's usually happier. The weekends he's a different child much more engaged and happier in himself.
So basically I thought about the pros and the cons learnt how can he settle without the support the reassurance the patience if it's 11:1 like neurotypical kids at this age all have different needs.
I thought is it holding him back? Is he making friends? I got no feed back whatsoever I felt like if I asked them I was annoying them and I convinced myself that if they had any issues they would tell me.
I can honestly say he won't be going doing any ecce. I really hoped it would work but not a hope is it for us. If it did work I would have taken the extra year. But now I know he needs an early intervention playschool. We had a touch few months I wasn't well myself sending my child in crying and me standing outside with my head in my hands hoping the crys would stop. I got many messages to take him out early between September and November and that wasn't even enough to get the Aims. Such a frustrating experience.
I thought he was on a list for speech and language and OT in fact I was told he was and I made a call last week to check up on something else and was given some story that he dosent need them because he wasn't referred for such and such So no services with HSE for Slt and OT.
I try to do as much at home with him painting playdoh he started to write he is 3and 5 months and he can write numbers 1-10 and draw circles with eyes and legs and hands.
I'm doing a lot of matching games using Pinterest to print and laminate and using Velcro to make shape matching boards.
Basically table work to keep him interested and then I can praise him and high five he loves all that.
He needs motivation guidance and praise and he can play very well alone too.
It's just the full class that probably stressed him out and the noise.

He seemed popular with a lot of the kids tho they always said bye to him or if we saw them after they would be saying hello it was so cute but he didn't notice them so sad I wish he did but this is part of it I guess maybe one day

Gatling wrote: »

See it's applied for by managers now in my experience and that of my own child who was supposed to have aim supports what I seen was ,

Worker A is asked to apply to do Aim support by the same manager who applied for a child or children to receive aim supports,
Worker A gets the role but worker A either already has 5 + children already on their table and has no time to give aim supports or they get given a table with a number of children + the children who are supposed to get aim ,
Leaving no actual time to dedicate to aim ,

I personally believe that aim should be strictly monitored to make sure children are getting the full entitlement and that the workers have any extra support they need to effectively do the job properly.add the fact aim is quite loose as its more holistic approach to inclusion and not the same as primary school SNA

My child was supposed to get aim supports in their preschool after it was applied for and granted but only after the transition to primary school I was told by her keyworker in the preschool never did anything with them aim wise due to being to busy with 6 other children and the room in general

That's so sad finding out that they were too busy when the whole room has been allocated an extra member of staff the child should be monitored even with a daily diary even 10 minutes every day to work with that child can have huge benefits.
What bothered me the most in our case was I genuinely thought my child was coping as I got little feedback. He went in he came out.
Some days crying but I thought maybe he fell? He often came out crying and no one said anything.
When things came to light after the observation I found out he was seeking a quiet corner which I thought was very sad.

But I was quickly corrected by Aims then and told this is typical of a child with a diagnosis.

I felt like she was just ticking boxes I felt after I Enquired and chased up with calls like alarm bells were ringing! I was told next step is they hire someone and then the aims call back on a month. So for the first month nothing is done to organise assistance!? I was like what!?!? A whole month. I was hanging off the edge of my seat waiting for this and a whole month with an extra member of staff and no plan no structure. So what happens in a month all the things aims promised and discussed sounds amazing but in reality all I could see was all talk no action.

Hard to hear when your the mother and then when they add on their technical terms it's dosent help!
It just proves that the ecce numbers that have been created 11:1 it's really full on.
Aims is a waste of time so really is it?
If all these kids are losing out.
Home tuition is probably the way to go but then the child is losing out on social skills.
But they have plenty of time to make friends!
The home tuition helps for one on one language skills focus and attention that they won't get anywhere else.

Another thing to look at once your child is in primary school they will be moved from the early intervention list and moved to the school aged team who likely won't look at the file for nearly 2 years ,

It seems completely crazy to me to send a child to school who has just turned four. I’m hesitant to send mine at 4 yr 8 months. If 11-1 seems like a low ratio it certainly won’t improve at school as it is extremely unlikely you will get an sna 1-1

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Can’t get the assistance required in my preschool, plus we are having problems with the management in general.

Find a new better preschool .

How long is your child is their current service

Cork Trucker wrote: »

This is the second year, due to have another child start there in September but they are threatening to withdraw that placement, different discussion altogether.

Has your child completed 1 year of ecce?
I really think 4 is far too young regardless of any additional needs. I have an August child with no additional needs and he will be going to school when he is 5.

If you apply for home tuition you can ask the tutor to go into the preschool with your child and work with them 1:1.
From my memory you can’t get the ecce and home tuition but the home tuition is worth more,
There are on threads on here where people have split it so say 15 hours ecce and 15 hours of home tuition.
You need to find the tutor yourself though which is a bit of a pain.

Cork Trucker wrote: »

1 year of creche, this is the first year of preschool. yeah i've discussed the HT option, it wouldn't be viable in my household. As a matter of curiosity, just say i was to let him do the second year of preschool, is there an obligation on the current preschool to permit him to do the second year if we chose to carry on? ignore what i said in the previous post about issues, i'll deal with that separately.

Have you told the preschool that your child will be leaving in June 2020? If so they may have offered his space to another child.
If not I would assume they would need to offer you the second year. Our preschool has an enrolment policy.

In the HT situation I have described the HT does not come to your house....space is no issue. I have worked as a HT and never work in my students’ homes.