Applying for an SNA

Cork Trucker

So, my child who is due to start school this coming September has non verbal ASD, the school aren't very cooperative and trying to back me into keeping him in preschool another year, no way says i, is it the school or myself who must apply for the SNA? All reports from AON,Preschool,GP handed over 1 full year in advance to try and help make the transition easy rather than to just dump it on them on the first day of school. There is no unit in the school so he will he in a mainstream class.

byhookorbycrook

There is a lot of uncertainty over SNA allocation for the next school year . There’s a pilot scheme in place whereby schools are allocated a fixed number of SNA hours , no matter what the needs in the school are. Even the SENOs seem uncertain .
Recently , there seems to be a delay on allocation of SNAs to junior infants .

I am speculating that the school may not have experience of children with non verbal ASD ? It’s your right to send your child at whatever age you want , of course . No deadline has been given to schools for applying for SNA support , so it seems that SNAs will be allocated as already outlined .

irishgirl19

I'd be getting onto the SENO. They should really source a suitable place for your child (that's if mainstream isn't the recommendation). But I know that's easier said than done.
I believe the school has to arrange SNA but they could be shared among a few kids.
My daughter is autistic and non verbal. We've applied for so many schools for September. I'm just hoping she gets a place in an ASD unit. Some schools are telling us she's 200 and something on the list

Calhoun

Its the schools responsibility but make sure to give the seno a poke to see what the story is.

No matter what bleeding heart story they come up with between the school and the seno its their responsibility to provide you child with an education. Your responsibility ends when you enroll them in the school.

Sure they can get your child removed but that would require reporting and the likes from Tusla and the NCSE.

Cork Trucker

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

There is a lot of uncertainty over SNA allocation for the next school year . There’s a pilot scheme in place whereby schools are allocated a fixed number of SNA hours , no matter what the needs in the school are. Even the SENOs seem uncertain .
Recently , there seems to be a delay on allocation of SNAs to junior infants .

I am speculating that the school may not have experience of children with non verbal ASD ? It’s your right to send your child at whatever age you want , of course . No deadline has been given to schools for applying for SNA support , so it seems that SNAs will be allocated as already outlined .

Yes they have no experience with non verbal ASD and the SENO and principal are drafting in the HSCL officer to try and sway me into not enrolling him this year

Cork Trucker

irishgirl19 wrote: »

I'd be getting onto the SENO. They should really source a suitable place for your child (that's if mainstream isn't the recommendation). But I know that's easier said than done.
I believe the school has to arrange SNA but they could be shared among a few kids.
My daughter is autistic and non verbal. We've applied for so many schools for September. I'm just hoping she gets a place in an ASD unit. Some schools are telling us she's 200 and something on the list

There was only one unit near my house, due to a conflict of interest it was a non runner. 200 on a list for an SNA?

Calhoun

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Yes they have no experience with non verbal ASD and the SENO and principal are drafting in the HSCL officer to try and sway me into not enrolling him this year

Where do they plan on putting him next year? And are you completely against it? We did an extra year of pre-school because it was what our girl needed but when she went to school she was non-verbal.

She is still non-verbal to an extent but has learnt llots of words since then.

Cork Trucker

Calhoun wrote: »

Its the schools responsibility but make sure to give the seno a poke to see what the story is.

No matter what bleeding heart story they come up with between the school and the seno its their responsibility to provide you child with an education. Your responsibility ends when you enroll them in the school.

Sure they can get your child removed but that would require reporting and the likes from Tusla and the NCSE.

They are telling me wait until he is 5, he will turn 4 on the day he starts school, I’ve refused on the basis that in the AON it was recommended he get aims support in preschool and I was assured he would, it never materialised, I was told it’s optional for them but mandatory in the school setting.

Cork Trucker

Calhoun wrote: »

Where do they plan on putting him next year? And are you completely against it? We did an extra year of pre-school because it was what our girl needed but when she went to school she was non-verbal.

She is still non-verbal to an extent but has learnt llots of words since then.

He’ll be put in with the normal main stream junior infants, an extra year of preschool is something myself and his mother have ruled out as the department of education weren’t playing ball with AIMS allocation. He’s on a preschool class of 11 with 2 adults who cannot give him the attention he needs due to “numbers” in other words they aren’t getting SNA funding to bring in a third person who will work with him. I’ve said no to early start as well for the same reasons, we cannot get a guarantee on it.

Calhoun

Cork Trucker wrote: »

They are telling me wait until he is 5, he will turn 4 on the day he starts school, I’ve refused on the basis that in the AON it was recommended he get aims support in preschool and I was assured he would, it never materialised, I was told it’s optional for them but mandatory in the school setting.

I am surprised he didn't get aim's they do their own assessment and if the child has the need they normally provide it.

The aim's however is really only so that the pre-school has the support so they can have him in the class its not exactly an SnA position.

I would be pushing the SENO for either an ASD pre-school/unit or home tutor hours as an alternative if you did want to consider keeping him out one more year. However tutor you have to source yourself, they must have a teaching council number and are hard to come by.

Cork Trucker

Calhoun wrote: »

I am surprised he didn't get aim's they do their own assessment and if the child has the need they normally provide it.

The aim's however is really only so that the pre-school has the support so they can have him in the class its not exactly an SnA position.

I would be pushing the SENO for either an ASD pre-school/unit or home tutor hours as an alternative if you did want to consider keeping him out one more year. However tutor you have to source yourself, they must have a teaching council number and are hard to come by.

My case regarding that is due in the high court soon, AON says he needed it, AIMS think they know better having never met the child. I wouldn’t go down the tutor route, the SENO while not admitting it is against him starting, his body language and approach to it is enough for me, every phone call, every meeting all I keep getting from him is “oh 5 would be better” or “we can help you find another preschool for next year” I’m still educating myself on AIMS but it seems he is not getting what is recommended for him. All cope foundation appointments are 2/3 years from now even.

byhookorbycrook

As a primary teacher , I do feel that turning 4 as school opens is too young for any child. His needs will have to be met within the existing SEN model - children no longer get allocated “ hours “ as happened under the old model - so he will be sharing in what’s there already .

SNA-wise , he may get “ access” which can mean 10 minutes a day , depending on what other needs exist in the school . I’d certainly chase down the SENO, but I’m being honest I’m saying that they don’t know themselves what’s happening , so schools don’t either . Some SENOs are saying to send in reports and applications and others are saying that the new model for SNA provision will be in place this September.
Rather typical of the DES, I’m afraid .

Calhoun

Cork Trucker wrote: »

My case regarding that is due in the high court soon, AON says he needed it, AIMS think they know better having never met the child. I wouldn’t go down the tutor route, the SENO while not admitting it is against him starting, his body language and approach to it is enough for me, every phone call, every meeting all I keep getting from him is “oh 5 would be better” or “we can help you find another preschool for next year” I’m still educating myself on AIMS but it seems he is not getting what is recommended for him. All cope foundation appointments are 2/3 years from now even.

Be interesting to see how that one goes, I am very surprised you had that experience the AIMS people where I am were very attentive and we got approval for one staff member in the pre-school. We liked it so much we actually extended the ECCE scheme for a year.

The SENO's should be working for the children but generally you find they work to keep themselves in a job or to gatekeep the resources they have. Even the language as you have written it there is all about "help you" not actually find them a place in a pre-school with ASD support. We had the option to go to an ASD pre-school but we turned it down as the AIMS was that good in our area.

I would advise though to consider all the options because from what you have written I don't think its about going to school so much as its about making sure some support is in place.

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

As a primary teacher , I do feel that turning 4 as school opens is too young for any child. His needs will have to be met within the existing SEN model - children no longer get allocated “ hours “ as happened under the old model - so he will be sharing in what’s there already .



SNA-wise , he may get “ access” which can mean 10 minutes a day , depending on what other needs exist in the school . I’d certainly chase down the SENO, but I’m being honest I’m saying that they don’t know themselves what’s happening , so schools don’t either . Some SENOs are saying to send in reports and applications and others are saying that the new model for SNA provision will be in place this September.
Rather typical of the DES, I’m afraid .

Another thing to consider with this is that even under the existing model of SNA the hours that are applied are not rigidly applied to a child or they weren't in our school. My daughter is a flight risk, non-verbal and is not toilet trained so the SNA is critical, however if she did not have the above needs they probably would cut the time she has with her SNA.

I can only imagine the new model is going to have allot of court cases if they understaff it. Either that or the schools will try and pressure the parents to do something which has been tried with us already.

alroley

Cork Trucker wrote: »

They are telling me wait until he is 5, he will turn 4 on the day he starts school, I’ve refused on the basis that in the AON it was recommended he get aims support in preschool and I was assured he would, it never materialised, I was told it’s optional for them but mandatory in the school setting.

Sorry, non-verbal or not, that is crazy young to send a child to school.

Motherof123

Cork Trucker wrote: »

They are telling me wait until he is 5, he will turn 4 on the day he starts school, I’ve refused on the basis that in the AON it was recommended he get aims support in preschool and I was assured he would, it never materialised, I was told it’s optional for them but mandatory in the school setting.

Judging by your name your from cork I am also from cork we had issues with my child's playschool applying for Aims saying oh it's too late (a week before they even started in 2019 excuse after excuse it must be a cork thing they really need to inform any service using the ecce scheme what is available to parents and children to ensure they don't miss out.
I waited for all my kids to turn 5 the rule was you have to be 4 before the 1st of May to start in September so you might double check his age with the school to make sure because one of my kids is a May baby and they told me she's too young. They prefer them to be 4 and 5 months at the youngest starting.

Cork Trucker

alroley wrote: »

Sorry, non-verbal or not, that is crazy young to send a child to school.

I’ve done it with my other children. I respect your opinion but please don’t judge me. The law allows it whether it’s right or wrong. The child is not getting the required support where he is.

Cork Trucker

Motherof123 wrote: »

Judging by your name your from cork I am also from cork we had issues with my child's playschool applying for Aims saying oh it's too late (a week before they even started in 2019 excuse after excuse it must be a cork thing they really need to inform any service using the ecce scheme what is available to parents and children to ensure they don't miss out.
I waited for all my kids to turn 5 the rule was you have to be 4 before the 1st of May to start in September so you might double check his age with the school to make sure because one of my kids is a May baby and they told me she's too young. They prefer them to be 4 and 5 months at the youngest starting.

Yes indeed I’m in Cork City. I applied in late August and it took until October to be told no. The department of education rules are they can start once 4 by September 30th. I once put a child in who turned 4 on September 28tth, they were never held back, they were a full month behind the rest of the class.

Motherof123

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Yes indeed I’m in Cork City. I applied in late August and it took until October to be told no. The department of education rules are they can start once 4 by September 30th. I once put a child in who turned 4 on September 28tth, they were never held back, they were a full month behind the rest of the class.

Did you get a diagnosis?
The other option is home tuition right now to help with things to prepare for school.
Little bit of writing colouring etc
Home tuition is 20 hours a week in your own home but that doesn't work for everyone.
Shine have a list of available tutors and the rainbow club.
They need structure and it's hard to implement that at home.
The ecce in my
Opinion is basic they can't do any extra and might not want to.
11:1 is a lot there are all 3 year olds with different demands.
If you feel primary school is the best option then go for it just make sure the sna is in place ASAP to guide your son.
My child is also a sept baby will also be 4 in sept 2020 but we need a mainstream with an ASD class. Smaller numbers more help etc.
I hope you find the help you need it's a nightmare and once your son settles and has assistance you can work on other things outside school if needed.

Cork Trucker

Motherof123 wrote: »

Did you get a diagnosis?
The other option is home tuition right now to help with things to prepare for school.
Little bit of writing colouring etc
Home tuition is 20 hours a week in your own home but that doesn't work for everyone.
Shine have a list of available tutors and the rainbow club.
They need structure and it's hard to implement that at home.
The ecce in my
Opinion is basic they can't do any extra and might not want to.
11:1 is a lot there are all 3 year olds with different demands.
If you feel primary school is the best option then go for it just make sure the sna is in place ASAP to guide your son.
My child is also a sept baby will also be 4 in sept 2020 but we need a mainstream with an ASD class. Smaller numbers more help etc.
I hope you find the help you need it's a nightmare and once your son settles and has assistance you can work on other things outside school if needed.

Yes, after having to take the HSE to court to get the AON done it was completed in July 2019 which included an occupational therapist & child psychologist going to his then creche to observe him and speak with staff as part of the process, the feedback meeting took place in the same month with the formal ASD diagnosis and i received the report within 2 weeks, many of the recommendations in the report have not been adhered to such as AIMS, legal advice is yet to be taken on whether to re-enter the case on other matters that have not been complied with but the AIMS boat has well and truly sailed now.

Home tuition sadly isn't an option due to the limited space in the home setting. Shine are in Carrigaline? The class my son is due to go into is a maximum of 16, not much bigger than what he already is in at preschool.

Thank you for your kind words, i have every faith in him to settle in well, the only downside to it is his speech, he can do the alphabet & 1-10 with a handful of other words thrown in but other than that has nothing else. I agree with you 100%, once he is in school the plan is to work on the other needs he has, but to achieve this he would need to be in school. I hope everything works out for you and your son also.

Motherof123

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Yes, after having to take the HSE to court to get the AON done it was completed in July 2019 which included an occupational therapist & child psychologist going to his then creche to observe him and speak with staff as part of the process, the feedback meeting took place in the same month with the formal ASD diagnosis and i received the report within 2 weeks, many of the recommendations in the report have not been adhered to such as AIMS, legal advice is yet to be taken on whether to re-enter the case on other matters that have not been complied with but the AIMS boat has well and truly sailed now.

Home tuition sadly isn't an option due to the limited space in the home setting. Shine are in Carrigaline? The class my son is due to go into is a maximum of 16, not much bigger than what he already is in at preschool.

Thank you for your kind words, i have every faith in him to settle in well, the only downside to it is his speech, he can do the alphabet & 1-10 with a handful of other words thrown in but other than that has nothing else. I agree with you 100%, once he is in school the plan is to work on the other needs he has, but to achieve this he would need to be in school. I hope everything works out for you and your son also.

My son is the same alphabet & numbers he is also copying words a lot depending on the form.
Home tuition we have they just use the living room and he's fine with that I got him a little table and chairs to work on. She does a visual schedule and he likes knowing what's coming next.
I thought I could do all that at home with flash cards but she has brought out more words.
It's not ideal but we have no choice really.
He's learning 1:1 which is great as you won't get that anywhere.
Good luck with the legal side of things that's possibly the best route you could ever take.
We panicked and paid ourselves which has its downsides as the list he was moved onto seems to have disappeared with no Slt or Ot so we now have to pay for this too.
The HSE make it so complicated they know these kids are our pride and joy and we would eat 2 minute noodles forever just to afford what comes with ASD.

We are paying too for OT which has helped also he loves going once a week I made a story board for that he knows the words but it gives him a sense of knowing what's happening and confidence and excited to go.
So I say car first then (took a photo of the OT room)
Then we say hello to the therapist.
Shoes off etc
And bye bye
Car
Home
Have a pic of our house but any house would do.
He may not need all that but it helps him understand.
All those school chapping and changing isn't good for kids either they just settle in early intervention and then have to go to a new school.
So by you getting him into primary he will settle and juniors is learning and playing phonics for the first few weeks which he probably knows already.
Then start on reading after Christmas with the phonics they learnt.
Also join the local library my son loves the library cork city library you can ask for colouring sheets they have them and crayons. And take home books and show him they have great alphabet ones and any cartoons he's into like my son loves the twirliwoos.
They have toys also.
Best of luck with everything and I hope over the summer the words start flying out!

Gatling

I'd be listening to the advice on the thread ,

I'd be inclined to agree with some of the other posters with experience in schools and special needs,
Starting a child of 4 who's non verbal (toilet trained?) Autistic in a school who don't seem equipped to deal with your child's needs isn't a great idea at all ,
I'd be trying to find a preschool that has the staff numbers and experience with children with extra needs , children at 4 with autism are usually behind their peers in most situations , starting school early won't be much benefit without the correct support,it actually cause more problems than it's worth for all involved ,

irishgirl19

Cork Trucker wrote: »

There was only one unit near my house, due to a conflict of interest it was a non runner. 200 on a list for an SNA?

Sorry should've specified it was for certain schools not SNA.
Did the HSE give your son a cognitive assessment? We were promised one but unfortunately doesn't look like it's going to happen

Cork Trucker

Motherof123 wrote: »

My son is the same alphabet & numbers he is also copying words a lot depending on the form.
Home tuition we have they just use the living room and he's fine with that I got him a little table and chairs to work on. She does a visual schedule and he likes knowing what's coming next.
I thought I could do all that at home with flash cards but she has brought out more words.
It's not ideal but we have no choice really.
He's learning 1:1 which is great as you won't get that anywhere.
Good luck with the legal side of things that's possibly the best route you could ever take.
We panicked and paid ourselves which has its downsides as the list he was moved onto seems to have disappeared with no Slt or Ot so we now have to pay for this too.
The HSE make it so complicated they know these kids are our pride and joy and we would eat 2 minute noodles forever just to afford what comes with ASD.

We are paying too for OT which has helped also he loves going once a week I made a story board for that he knows the words but it gives him a sense of knowing what's happening and confidence and excited to go.
So I say car first then (took a photo of the OT room)
Then we say hello to the therapist.
Shoes off etc
And bye bye
Car
Home
Have a pic of our house but any house would do.
He may not need all that but it helps him understand.
All those school chapping and changing isn't good for kids either they just settle in early intervention and then have to go to a new school.
So by you getting him into primary he will settle and juniors is learning and playing phonics for the first few weeks which he probably knows already.
Then start on reading after Christmas with the phonics they learnt.
Also join the local library my son loves the library cork city library you can ask for colouring sheets they have them and crayons. And take home books and show him they have great alphabet ones and any cartoons he's into like my son loves the twirliwoos.
They have toys also.
Best of luck with everything and I hope over the summer the words start flying out!

I have no regrets with the legal side of things and will plow on with it, it's the only way sadly. The home tuition seems invaluable for your son, what kind of hours is he allocated? I take him to the l library once a week, all books related to letters & numbers, he picks out his own, equally the colouring competitions he likes those too! Many thanks, i hope for good results over the next 6 months

Cork Trucker

Gatling wrote: »

I'd be listening to the advice on the thread ,

I'd be inclined to agree with some of the other posters with experience in schools and special needs,
Starting a child of 4 who's non verbal (toilet trained?) Autistic in a school who don't seem equipped to deal with your child's needs isn't a great idea at all ,
I'd be trying to find a preschool that has the staff numbers and experience with children with extra needs , children at 4 with autism are usually behind their peers in most situations , starting school early won't be much benefit without the correct support,it actually cause more problems than it's worth for all involved ,

I can see the point some people are making and i accept that, he's not toilet trained, the school are aware of this. What i have discovered since i was last on line earlier today is that they are equipped for such circumstances but would rather a get out of jail card if they can, hence the whole "better to start at 5" comment. They are trying to sway me towards the early start preschool which is adjacent to the main school itself, i've sought a guarantee that no one is willing to give me that he gets AIMS, no one including AIMS will say that he can and i must go through the process of application (AGAIN!) this is why i am not in favour of a second year of preschool. His case was in the high court today regarding all of this and i have yet to hear back on it, basically if i don't proceed to putting him into school this year after all my jumping up and down and taking the HSE/Dept of Education to court i might find myself with a nice legal bill which i firstly don't want and secondly cannot afford.

The flip side of all of this then is if i did wait until he was 5 and nothing changes will they turn around and say "legally he doesn't have to start until he is 6" that's not what i want for him, his mother is in alignment with my thoughts on that.

Cork Trucker

irishgirl19 wrote: »

Sorry should've specified it was for certain schools not SNA.
Did the HSE give your daughter a cognitive assessment? We were promised one but unfortunately doesn't look like it's going to happen

It was a full ASD assessment, 30 minutes with the child in my presence, a 4 hour interview with me and a 10 minute feedback session. It's a constant battle with the HSE, it would make you sick to think how poor our health service is and more importantly the states recognition of children with special needs.

Calhoun

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I can see the point some people are making and i accept that, he's not toilet trained, the school are aware of this. What i have discovered since i was last on line earlier today is that they are equipped for such circumstances but would rather a get out of jail card if they can, hence the whole "better to start at 5" comment. They are trying to sway me towards the early start preschool which is adjacent to the main school itself, i've sought a guarantee that no one is willing to give me that he gets AIMS, no one including AIMS will say that he can and i must go through the process of application (AGAIN!) this is why i am not in favour of a second year of preschool. His case was in the high court today regarding all of this and i have yet to hear back on it, basically if i don't proceed to putting him into school this year after all my jumping up and down and taking the HSE/Dept of Education to court i might find myself with a nice legal bill which i firstly don't want and secondly cannot afford.

The flip side of all of this then is if i did wait until he was 5 and nothing changes will they turn around and say "legally he doesn't have to start until he is 6" that's not what i want for him, his mother is in alignment with my thoughts on that.

My daughter is 6 and still not toilet trained,so that's not a barrier.

I don't think your problem is exactly and age one but getting resources problem, I can understand why you are pushing but if you were given assurances of a better way without entering school would you take it.

Also does your legal council think you have a decent case ?

Cork Trucker

Calhoun wrote: »

My daughter is 6 and still not toilet trained,so that's not a barrier.

I don't think your problem is exactly and age one but getting resources problem, I can understand why you are pushing but if you were given assurances of a better way without entering school would you take it.

Also does your legal council think you have a decent case ?

Yes it may come down to resources. If i was given a cast iron guarantee that the child would get AIM''s or an SNA if he did another year of preschool then i would do it, but i can't get the guarantee i'm seeking. I'm just told to follow the application process again.

It would be defeatist if my counsel didn't say there was a good change of succeeding, they approached me with the evidence they had and told me their legal opinion via my solicitor, i did not know i could legally challenge the outcome of an AON on the grounds that the recommendations aren't being delivered. I hope to hear back by Friday, it has been adjourned each month since the case was entered in November.

As for the toileting issue, i have been told it would be up to me to go to the school and change him, again it's not something i have an issue with as in the entire time he has been in both creche and preschool, who do change him, he has never once done a dump, i don't mean to be vulgar in putting it that way, but he always waits until he gets home to do it. He has full control over his bowel, just not the bladder. Or as the preschool staff said, it may be a comfort thing as to why he only does it at home. The preschool said he is primary school material bar his speech and toilet training, hence the SNA is required.

Shybride2016

Hi CorkTrucker,

I am a preschool teacher and very concerned to hear that the preschool are not fulfilling their obligations with regards to AIM for your child. Can I ask, was he granted AIM Level 7 support (i.e. an extra member of staff in the room)? How are they managing at the moment and how is your son coping with preschool without the support he should be getting? In my experience once AIM is granted, meetings with the Better Start coordinator and parents are set up so as to set some goals and expectations for the year ahead and reviewed each half-term.

I would absolutely agree with others here who have said that just gone 4 years of age nowadays is extremely young to be starting Primary School, regardless of it being in a small class as you describe. Do you know from the school what the age profile of your son’s class is likely to be? Some kids can be nearly 5 1/2 starting Junior Infants now which as you know is a big difference from a 4 year old. Im very surprised at the preschool saying he’ll be ready for Primary School too.

In my limited experience of the SNAs in mainstream Primary School, no child gets a one on one all the time, the resources just aren’t there unfortunately so your son would be likely sharing with other children in his class or the wider school, depending on the others’ needs.

Will he have done 2 years ECCE when he starts Primary School? I’m guessing not and you know he’s eligible for another year ECCE. Would you and your wife consider changing his preschool? To somewhere that will support him as they should, especially with regard to having the AIM recommendations in place for him.

I’m sorry to hear of your legal battles to get what your son is entitled to, this country is shockingly inadequate in their support of children with additional needs. Best of luck with it all.

Calhoun

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Yes it may come down to resources. If i was given a cast iron guarantee that the child would get AIM''s or an SNA if he did another year of preschool then i would do it, but i can't get the guarantee i'm seeking. I'm just told to follow the application process again.

It would be defeatist if my counsel didn't say there was a good change of succeeding, they approached me with the evidence they had and told me their legal opinion via my solicitor, i did not know i could legally challenge the outcome of an AON on the grounds that the recommendations aren't being delivered. I hope to hear back by Friday, it has been adjourned each month since the case was entered in November.

As for the toileting issue, i have been told it would be up to me to go to the school and change him, again it's not something i have an issue with as in the entire time he has been in both creche and preschool, who do change him, he has never once done a dump, i don't mean to be vulgar in putting it that way, but he always waits until he gets home to do it. He has full control over his bowel, just not the bladder. Or as the preschool staff said, it may be a comfort thing as to why he only does it at home. The preschool said he is primary school material bar his speech and toilet training, hence the SNA is required.

That is why i am surprised about the AIM piece as it was nearly always made sound like optional to us, even more surprised that a child who is non-verbal and not toilet trained and more than likely a flight risk didnt get it.

I was wondering how the case would work as i honestly thought there was a bigger disconnect between the AON and the likes of AIMs. It is getting to the stage now where AON's can be used to challenge support from the HSE as in cases where support is needed ASAP and they aren't providing judges are enforcing it but i was not aware it could be done in the basis of aims. Will be interesting to see how it goes as you know how it is the HSE and department of education are scared ****less of precedence.

That is complete bull**** about you going to the school and changing him, thats what an SNA is for so whomever told you that is talking out their hole. The SNA going on the older requirements were for exactly those kind of needs for the additional needs your child could not do, infact kids that could go to the toilet and weren't so much a flight risk were having SNA hours cut as they only wanted to focus them on that.

If you can i would try get any of that in writing or email from the school.

Cork Trucker

Shybride2016 wrote: »

Hi CorkTrucker,

I am a preschool teacher and very concerned to hear that the preschool are not fulfilling their obligations with regards to AIM for your child. Can I ask, was he granted AIM Level 7 support (i.e. an extra member of staff in the room)? How are they managing at the moment and how is your son coping with preschool without the support he should be getting? In my experience once AIM is granted, meetings with the Better Start coordinator and parents are set up so as to set some goals and expectations for the year ahead and reviewed each half-term.

I would absolutely agree with others here who have said that just gone 4 years of age nowadays is extremely young to be starting Primary School, regardless of it being in a small class as you describe. Do you know from the school what the age profile of your son’s class is likely to be? Some kids can be nearly 5 1/2 starting Junior Infants now which as you know is a big difference from a 4 year old. Im very surprised at the preschool saying he’ll be ready for Primary School too.

In my limited experience of the SNAs in mainstream Primary School, no child gets a one on one all the time, the resources just aren’t there unfortunately so your son would be likely sharing with other children in his class or the wider school, depending on the others’ needs.

Will he have done 2 years ECCE when he starts Primary School? I’m guessing not and you know he’s eligible for another year ECCE. Would you and your wife consider changing his preschool? To somewhere that will support him as they should, especially with regard to having the AIM recommendations in place for him.

I’m sorry to hear of your legal battles to get what your son is entitled to, this country is shockingly inadequate in their support of children with additional needs. Best of luck with it all.

Hi Shybride2016 and thanks for reaching out.

When the application was submitted it was on the basis of a level 7, the extra person as you rightly point out,however when AIM's asked for further details there was 3 staff in the room so they assigned a level 4 (mentoring), literally 2 weeks after this one of the staff resigned and was not replaced, so now there are 2 staff in the room, on many occasions just the 1, HSE regulation is 1 adult to 11 children, and this guideline is met, however when i protested to the preschool about reapplying to AIM's i was told it was firstly not possible, when i pressed further i was told not necessary, all of this despite the AON report stating it was a requirement for the child's needs. I had 1 solitary meeting with an AIM's Co-ordinator in late August 2019 and not a sound ever since where i am concerned, where the preschool are concerned there has been 2 meetings, the Co-ordinator said level 7 is needed but the powers that be in Dublin are refusing on the grounds that there is adequate staffing, when i rang them they declined to engage with me.

In regards the class he is going into, i know there will be at least 4 other boys all aged 4, one of these was born in December 2015 so will be 9 months older than him, the remaining 3 were all born in the same calendar year (2016), the remainder i have no knowledge of, i actually went to the same school myself as a child.

I would never expect complete 1-1 in primary school for him, he wouldn't need it, just with certain aspects.

He has done 1 year of Creche, at 2 days a week which i found ridiculous but it was all we were offered, and he is now in his first ECCE year, i have informed the preschool that he will not be staying with them for a second year. In relation to the children in his group, he mixes well, is never problematic towards other children and infact is very popular with at least 2 other children despite not being verbal.

As mentioned in an earlier post, if i had a cast iron guarantee on level 7 AIM's or an SNA in early start i would agree to it, they are not willing to give me the assurances, my wife is of the same opinion as myself.

Yes i'm exhausted from the legal argument. Part of the court case centre's around my child only being on the Cork/Kerry waiting lists which are the longest in Munster if not Ireland, 2/3 years minimum for occupational therapy & psychology with Cope Foundation is scandalous to say the least.

Cork Trucker

Calhoun wrote: »

That is why i am surprised about the AIM piece as it was nearly always made sound like optional to us, even more surprised that a child who is non-verbal and not toilet trained and more than likely a flight risk didnt get it.

I was wondering how the case would work as i honestly thought there was a bigger disconnect between the AON and the likes of AIMs. It is getting to the stage now where AON's can be used to challenge support from the HSE as in cases where support is needed ASAP and they aren't providing judges are enforcing it but i was not aware it could be done in the basis of aims. Will be interesting to see how it goes as you know how it is the HSE and department of education are scared ****less of precedence.

That is complete bull**** about you going to the school and changing him, thats what an SNA is for so whomever told you that is talking out their hole. The SNA going on the older requirements were for exactly those kind of needs for the additional needs your child could not do, infact kids that could go to the toilet and weren't so much a flight risk were having SNA hours cut as they only wanted to focus them on that.

If you can i would try get any of that in writing or email from the school.

I'm unsure if it is optional or not as this is my first experience of AIM's, but the AON report clearly states it is needed and he has not gotten it.

Yes indeed he is a flight risk without adult supervision, offers to toilet train him in preschool have been made but they were never more than offers.

The reason i am seeking judicial enforcement in regards AIM's is because the AON report clearly recommends it and it has not been given, someone in AIM's could be in proverbial hot water.

The biggest issue the preschool actually had with him was his obsession with water, it was so bad the plumber was called in to disable the taps, that aside he isn't problematic.


I will not back down from the HSE and their scaremongering of people, more parents need to bring them to court and stand up for what is right for their children and their needs, it is not something i will grow weary of.

Shybride2016

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Hi Shybride2016 and thanks for reaching out.

When the application was submitted it was on the basis of a level 7, the extra person as you rightly point out,however when AIM's asked for further details there was 3 staff in the room so they assigned a level 4 (mentoring), literally 2 weeks after this one of the staff resigned and was not replaced, so now there are 2 staff in the room, on many occasions just the 1, HSE regulation is 1 adult to 11 children, and this guideline is met, however when i protested to the preschool about reapplying to AIM's i was told it was firstly not possible, when i pressed further i was told not necessary, all of this despite the AON report stating it was a requirement for the child's needs. I had 1 solitary meeting with an AIM's Co-ordinator in late August 2019 and not a sound ever since where i am concerned, where the preschool are concerned there has been 2 meetings, the Co-ordinator said level 7 is needed but the powers that be in Dublin are refusing on the grounds that there is adequate staffing, when i rang them they declined to engage with me.

In regards the class he is going into, i know there will be at least 4 other boys all aged 4, one of these was born in December 2015 so will be 9 months older than him, the remaining 3 were all born in the same calendar year (2016), the remainder i have no knowledge of, i actually went to the same school myself as a child.

I would never expect complete 1-1 in primary school for him, he wouldn't need it, just with certain aspects.

He has done 1 year of Creche, at 2 days a week which i found ridiculous but it was all we were offered, and he is now in his first ECCE year, i have informed the preschool that he will not be staying with them for a second year. In relation to the children in his group, he mixes well, is never problematic towards other children and infact is very popular with at least 2 other children despite not being verbal.

As mentioned in an earlier post, if i had a cast iron guarantee on level 7 AIM's or an SNA in early start i would agree to it, they are not willing to give me the assurances, my wife is of the same opinion as myself.

Yes i'm exhausted from the legal argument. Part of the court case centre's around my child only being on the Cork/Kerry waiting lists which are the longest in Munster if not Ireland, 2/3 years minimum for occupational therapy & psychology with Cope Foundation is scandalous to say the least.

Hi again,

There’s a few things in your reply that are concerning me so if you don’t mind me pointing them out it’s in the hope of helping you get support between now and September.

Firstly, IMO a child who has an ASD diagnosis, a flight risk and not toilet trained should absolutely be receiving Level 7 support in the form of an extra member of staff. It’s not clear from your post whether your son is in pull-ups or nappies or has started the toilet training process and is in pants. Regardless, if you and his mum would like to start the process of toilet training the preschool should absolutely be supporting you in this by bringing him into the toilet regularly and encouraging him to follow the toileting routine each time. This means that a member of staff would accompany him into the toilets, therefore the other staff member would remain in the class with the 10 other children.

Secondly, I cannot fathom AIM/Better Start’s reasoning in reducing your son’s level of AIM support from 7 to a 4 after a staff member left. This sounds not only ridiculous but completely wrong. His needs haven’t changed.

I’m so sorry to hear you haven’t had more contact from Better Start either, tbh the whole situation sounds very badly handled by both your son’s preschool and Better Start.

I know you’re focused on getting things in place for Primary School but if you would like to pursue things to make immediate improvements for your son feel free to ask me for help if I can be of any assistance. Your local childcare committee may also be of help if you got in touch with them to explain the current preschool situation.

Again I can only say I’m sorry to hear of the situation you are dealing with. Life with smallies is stressful enough without having to fight legal battles for what he’s due.

Calhoun

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I'm unsure if it is optional or not as this is my first experience of AIM's, but the AON report clearly states it is needed and he has not gotten it.

Yes indeed he is a flight risk without adult supervision, offers to toilet train him in preschool have been made but they were never more than offers.

The reason i am seeking judicial enforcement in regards AIM's is because the AON report clearly recommends it and it has not been given, someone in AIM's could be in proverbial hot water.

The biggest issue the preschool actually had with him was his obsession with water, it was so bad the plumber was called in to disable the taps, that aside he isn't problematic.


I will not back down from the HSE and their scaremongering of people, more parents need to bring them to court and stand up for what is right for their children and their needs, it is not something i will grow weary of.

Best of luck with it either way, we are probably on the road to a legal challenge. Have been waiting 3 years for the service statement and it finally came blank lol.

Him being a flight risk is exactly why you would need someone additional, im surprised he didn't get the aims.

We are also fighting but its not something that every parent has the option for as its expensive and they will fight you the whole way as they are so fearful of precedence, most times they may agree a solution on the court steps to stop something that others can use. Its not ideal but i understand why allot of parents get weary of it, a combined despair/trying to do what you can.

irishgirl19

Cork Trucker wrote: »

It was a full ASD assessment, 30 minutes with the child in my presence, a 4 hour interview with me and a 10 minute feedback session. It's a constant battle with the HSE, it would make you sick to think how poor our health service is and more importantly the states recognition of children with special needs.

The HSE are a shambles. I hope it works out for you all.
I booked a private cognitive assessment today for my daughter to help with school place. Apparently her report is out of date because it was done at 22 months. I'm hoping I'll get an appointment from the HSE in the meantime (so I can cancel the private one). Our solicitor sent out letters 2 weeks ago

Calhoun

irishgirl19 wrote: »

The HSE are a shambles. I hope it works out for you all.
I booked a private cognitive assessment today for my daughter to help with school place. Apparently her report is out of date because it was done at 22 months. I'm hoping I'll get an appointment from the HSE in the meantime (so I can cancel the private one). Our solicitor sent out letters 2 weeks ago

You can get the AON redone/reviewed, it was when we went to do this that we found out that the first "AON" was not completed and they never provided us with a service statement.

irishgirl19

Calhoun wrote: »

You can get the AON redone/reviewed, it was when we went to do this that we found out that the first "AON" was not completed and they never provided us with a service statement.

I said this to the solicitor but he said he didn't see the need. The service statement we had said to be reviewed in Jan 2020 and he said we have them on that. The AON report also said a cognitive assessment should be done when my daughter is of school going age but they are refusing to do that now.
I just hope it's done soon because the private assessment is €600. Alot of money for an hours appointment. The health insurance we have doesn't cover any of it either

Motherof123

Shybride2016 wrote: »

Hi again,

There’s a few things in your reply that are concerning me so if you don’t mind me pointing them out it’s in the hope of helping you get support between now and September.

Firstly, IMO a child who has an ASD diagnosis, a flight risk and not toilet trained should absolutely be receiving Level 7 support in the form of an extra member of staff. It’s not clear from your post whether your son is in pull-ups or nappies or has started the toilet training process and is in pants. Regardless, if you and his mum would like to start the process of toilet training the preschool should absolutely be supporting you in this by bringing him into the toilet regularly and encouraging him to follow the toileting routine each time. This means that a member of staff would accompany him into the toilets, therefore the other staff member would remain in the class with the 10 other children.

Secondly, I cannot fathom AIM/Better Start’s reasoning in reducing your son’s level of AIM support from 7 to a 4 after a staff member left. This sounds not only ridiculous but completely wrong. His needs haven’t changed.

I’m so sorry to hear you haven’t had more contact from Better Start either, tbh the whole situation sounds very badly handled by both your son’s preschool and Better Start.

I know you’re focused on getting things in place for Primary School but if you would like to pursue things to make immediate improvements for your son feel free to ask me for help if I can be of any assistance. Your local childcare committee may also be of help if you got in touch with them to explain the current preschool situation.

Again I can only say I’m sorry to hear of the situation you are dealing with. Life with smallies is stressful enough without having to fight legal battles for what he’s due.

I'm also in cork city had a disaster of an Aims situation.
The day I went to apply had a time chosen to meet at the playschool for Aims then I get a text an hour before the chosen time saying come earlier as the manager had a hair appointment I had to hop skip and jump to obey their suited times I actually ran over there like a donkey so I'd make it "early" felt like a right burden.
Was fobbed off for months told oh yeah we'll apply next week. Felt like I was annoying them asking and it's my child's right! Such Time wasting.

It also said he would benefit with aims on his report.

11:1 is a joke what happens when one staff member needs to use the bathroom then it's 22:1 how could they possibly assist with potty training if they are already swamped down.
Aims sounds amazing on paper and it seems to be like a lottery you win some you loose some.
Benefits the business big time.

I really wish I could believe that the aims support would be aimed to include the child but I'm after losing so much hope with my experience.
I wouldn't mind if I was a minority but I'm sure so many people have had this issue why can't they educate all the places that claim ecce funding about aims.
They told me in August 2019 oh it's too late now to apply so I went back into Aims website and saw it's not too late so I had to tell the manager oh guess what it's not too late.
It fell on deaf ears.

He be grand they said. But looking back now he should have got that but they didn't want to do any extra.

Motherof123

irishgirl19 wrote: »

The HSE are a shambles. I hope it works out for you all.
I booked a private cognitive assessment today for my daughter to help with school place. Apparently her report is out of date because it was done at 22 months. I'm hoping I'll get an appointment from the HSE in the meantime (so I can cancel the private one). Our solicitor sent out letters 2 weeks ago

I was told my 3 year old won't need one and I know she's (HSE) fobbing me off on the phone. She told me if and when you think he needs one you just go to your GP who will refer you! I presume that's another fairy tale she told me?

Gatling

Motherof123 wrote: »

11:1 is a joke what happens when one staff member needs to use the bathroom then it's 22:1 how could they possibly assist with potty training if they are already swamped down.
Aims sounds amazing on paper and it seems to be like a lottery you win some you loose some.
Benefits the business big time.

Pretty standard in preschool settings you can be out of ratio for a toilet break (technically) the service would be in trouble if was any longer than a few minutes,
The same thing would happen in a school teachers leave rooms for various reasons and a single SNA would have 22 kids plus whatever extra needs kids as well ,

Aim tends to be a lottery and limited resources to take on extra staff ,I've previously done aim in a setting and ended up getting next to no support and given a table of 6 other kids that I was told I was their key worker and was supposed to do observations on each child and well as small and large group activities ,and yet no time given to do Aim ,
Remember most preschools are dependent CE workers who's are essentially only training supposed to only do 19.5 hours most get asked to do Aim with little or no extra training ,
While services are only too happy to take on more and more kids as long as they are getting funding from the government

Motherof123

Gatling wrote: »

Pretty standard in preschool settings you can be out of ratio for a toilet break (technically) the service would be in trouble if was any longer than a few minutes,
The same thing would happen in a school teachers leave rooms for various reasons and a single SNA would have 22 kids plus whatever extra needs kids as well ,

Aim tends to be a lottery and limited resources to take on extra staff ,I've previously done aim in a setting and ended up getting next to no support and given a table of 6 other kids that I was told I was their key worker and was supposed to do observations on each child and well as small and large group activities ,and yet no time given to do Aim ,
Remember most preschools are dependent CE workers who's are essentially only training supposed to only do 19.5 hours most get asked to do Aim with little or no extra training ,
While services are only too happy to take on more and more kids as long as they are getting funding from the government

How is the aim funding done then if a playschool cannot find staff is it sent the extra funding once it's approved or do they have to show they hired to get the payments.

Musefan

Hi all, psychologist here. Just to say, ADHD ireland have a very good description of the proposed SNA scheme changes at https://adhdireland.ie/update-new-sna-model-from-department-of-education/

A bit of general advice for parents re when schools ask for up to date cognitive assessments, make sure you ask WHY and ask for that in writing. Cognitive ability doesn't change wildly throughout your lifetime. It absolutely baffles me why schools ask for one within the last two years for this reason. Especially when a child isn't having thinking or learning skills difficulties. And even more so when the child already has a diagnosis of ASD. These cognitive assessments are only really useful if an intellectual disability is suspected. Where I have done them, up to 10-11 hours can go into the cognitive assessment, adaptive functioning assessment and write up. In reality, all schools really wanted these reports for under the old model, were to apply for SNAs, and in that case, a good description of the care needs a child has would be sufficient, without dragging them through a lengthy cognitive assessment.

The new model will change this- you will be able to discuss your child's needs directly with the school. They advise that they still might want the "opinion" of a professional, but in those cases, I'd be more than happy to go back to a school and ask them to listen to the parents first and foremost.

For your little person OP, I'm not really sure what to advise other than keep fighting for the AIMS support, and maybe don't read to much into the recommendation being in an AON report. I'd be very hesitant to include such recommendations for AIMS myself in reports, considering it's not diagnosis led, and uploading your reports etc is optional, therefore, it's not really within my remit to say "you should give a child x, y, or z support". It's a bit like me saying "X, Y or Z should have a filling in their tooth"- I might think it would be useful but I have nothing to do with the dentist or how the dental surgery works. Its actually the same with the current SNA system- no psychologists report should say "X needs an SNA for...", as were not allowed to tell a school the quantum and how they should go about meeting certain needs. Its just our job to describe the needs. I would agree that 4 is very young. The vast, vast majority of children I work with go after 2 ECCE years, and in some cases, 3 with the extension. I would think given that nothing is set in stone for an SNA in September, and nothing is set in stone for an AIMS support worker now, that you would be better off in preschool where at least there is a looser structure, lots of free play and a shorter day, than being all day in a primary school class without supports. Hope you get it sorted, the uncertainty must be rotten for you and your family.

irishgirl19

Motherof123 wrote: »

I was told my 3 year old won't need one and I know she's (HSE) fobbing me off on the phone. She told me if and when you think he needs one you just go to your GP who will refer you! I presume that's another fairy tale she told me?

Last time we seen our EIT psychologist before Christmas she said I'll see you in Jan, early Feb for the cognitive assessment.
Come to find out at the start of this year she has left and no replacement hired.

The disability officer told me a school can apply for NEPS assessment but it's getting a school place that's the worry for me.

Alot of enrollment forms I've filled out want reports dated within 2 years with special school or classes recommendation. Our report only had preschool recommendations because my daughter was not yet 2 when it was done

Shybride2016

Motherof123 wrote: »

I'm also in cork city had a disaster of an Aims situation.
The day I went to apply had a time chosen to meet at the playschool for Aims then I get a text an hour before the chosen time saying come earlier as the manager had a hair appointment I had to hop skip and jump to obey their suited times I actually ran over there like a donkey so I'd make it "early" felt like a right burden.
Was fobbed off for months told oh yeah we'll apply next week. Felt like I was annoying them asking and it's my child's right! Such Time wasting.

It also said he would benefit with aims on his report.

11:1 is a joke what happens when one staff member needs to use the bathroom then it's 22:1 how could they possibly assist with potty training if they are already swamped down.
Aims sounds amazing on paper and it seems to be like a lottery you win some you loose some.
Benefits the business big time.

I really wish I could believe that the aims support would be aimed to include the child but I'm after losing so much hope with my experience.
I wouldn't mind if I was a minority but I'm sure so many people have had this issue why can't they educate all the places that claim ecce funding about aims.
They told me in August 2019 oh it's too late now to apply so I went back into Aims website and saw it's not too late so I had to tell the manager oh guess what it's not too late.
It fell on deaf ears.

He be grand they said. But looking back now he should have got that but they didn't want to do any extra.

Oh my god, I’m so disheartened reading yet another awful experience with preschool and AIM. In our place we absolutely do everything we can and more for all the kids, including those who have AIM allocated.

With regard to toilet breaks - we do two ECCE sessions with a 10 minute break between when there’s no kids there. That’s when we go to the bathroom. Under absolutely no circumstances would we leave a preschool room when kids who are flight risks are present. It wouldn’t even cross our minds tbh.

AIM can be applied for at any stage of the ECCE year, or during the summer months.

Jesus I’m shocked and saddened reading all of your awful experiences of AIM & ECCE. I don’t know what to say.

Motherof123

Shybride2016 wrote: »

Oh my god, I’m so disheartened reading yet another awful experience with preschool and AIM. In our place we absolutely do everything we can and more for all the kids, including those who have AIM allocated.

With regard to toilet breaks - we do two ECCE sessions with a 10 minute break between when there’s no kids there. That’s when we go to the bathroom. Under absolutely no circumstances would we leave a preschool room when kids who are flight risks are present. It wouldn’t even cross our minds tbh.

AIM can be applied for at any stage of the ECCE year, or during the summer months.

Jesus I’m shocked and saddened reading all of your awful experiences of AIM & ECCE. I don’t know what to say.

You sound like you really love what you do.
And wherever you work sounds extremely well managed and professional.

But Yeah it was a horrible experience we sent him in kicking and screaming in sept told he stops once you leave which he probably did.
He was and still is very attached to
Me so I guess it's seperation anxiety.
He started having night terrors kicking and screaming in his sleep it was awful I'd try to sooth him and he would push me away screaming eyes closed he was still asleep like a night mare I would just sit beside him and wait for it to pass. He would literally scream the house down in his sleep I'm sure it would have woken the neighbours it was a high pitch scream.

I'm sure it's common in kids with ASD I'm not sure.

We had a very long time trying to settle him for school. He would cry going in and come out in an awful mood not always but more often than not.
So after sept I thought he might be ok by December? But he wasn't he was getting worse he was crying a lot I thought maybe his ears were at him!
Even tho he was healthy. He was waking up in very bad moods like I couldn't even get my other kids ready for school he would be so upset.
I put it down to winter long days he loves being out I took him out more in wet gear splashing in water having fun.
Then January came he went in fine but after two weeks back to square one but worse stopped eating his lunch night terrors back.
Waking in very bad moods. I spend the whole day humouring him which is fine but he's usually happier. The weekends he's a different child much more engaged and happier in himself.
So basically I thought about the pros and the cons learnt how can he settle without the support the reassurance the patience if it's 11:1 like neurotypical kids at this age all have different needs.
I thought is it holding him back? Is he making friends? I got no feed back whatsoever I felt like if I asked them I was annoying them and I convinced myself that if they had any issues they would tell me.
I can honestly say he won't be going doing any ecce. I really hoped it would work but not a hope is it for us. If it did work I would have taken the extra year. But now I know he needs an early intervention playschool. We had a touch few months I wasn't well myself sending my child in crying and me standing outside with my head in my hands hoping the crys would stop. I got many messages to take him out early between September and November and that wasn't even enough to get the Aims. Such a frustrating experience.
I thought he was on a list for speech and language and OT in fact I was told he was and I made a call last week to check up on something else and was given some story that he dosent need them because he wasn't referred for such and such So no services with HSE for Slt and OT.
I try to do as much at home with him painting playdoh he started to write he is 3and 5 months and he can write numbers 1-10 and draw circles with eyes and legs and hands.
I'm doing a lot of matching games using Pinterest to print and laminate and using Velcro to make shape matching boards.
Basically table work to keep him interested and then I can praise him and high five he loves all that.
He needs motivation guidance and praise and he can play very well alone too.
It's just the full class that probably stressed him out and the noise.

He seemed popular with a lot of the kids tho they always said bye to him or if we saw them after they would be saying hello it was so cute but he didn't notice them so sad I wish he did but this is part of it I guess maybe one day

Gatling

Motherof123 wrote: »

How is the aim funding done then if a playschool cannot find staff is it sent the extra funding once it's approved or do they have to show they hired to get the payments.

See it's applied for by managers now in my experience and that of my own child who was supposed to have aim supports what I seen was ,

Worker A is asked to apply to do Aim support by the same manager who applied for a child or children to receive aim supports,
Worker A gets the role but worker A either already has 5 + children already on their table and has no time to give aim supports or they get given a table with a number of children + the children who are supposed to get aim ,
Leaving no actual time to dedicate to aim ,

I personally believe that aim should be strictly monitored to make sure children are getting the full entitlement and that the workers have any extra support they need to effectively do the job properly.add the fact aim is quite loose as its more holistic approach to inclusion and not the same as primary school SNA

My child was supposed to get aim supports in their preschool after it was applied for and granted but only after the transition to primary school I was told by her keyworker in the preschool never did anything with them aim wise due to being to busy with 6 other children and the room in general

Motherof123

Gatling wrote: »

See it's applied for by managers now in my experience and that of my own child who was supposed to have aim supports what I seen was ,

Worker A is asked to apply to do Aim support by the same manager who applied for a child or children to receive aim supports,
Worker A gets the role but worker A either already has 5 + children already on their table and has no time to give aim supports or they get given a table with a number of children + the children who are supposed to get aim ,
Leaving no actual time to dedicate to aim ,

I personally believe that aim should be strictly monitored to make sure children are getting the full entitlement and that the workers have any extra support they need to effectively do the job properly.add the fact aim is quite loose as its more holistic approach to inclusion and not the same as primary school SNA

My child was supposed to get aim supports in their preschool after it was applied for and granted but only after the transition to primary school I was told by her keyworker in the preschool never did anything with them aim wise due to being to busy with 6 other children and the room in general

That's so sad finding out that they were too busy when the whole room has been allocated an extra member of staff the child should be monitored even with a daily diary even 10 minutes every day to work with that child can have huge benefits.
What bothered me the most in our case was I genuinely thought my child was coping as I got little feedback. He went in he came out.
Some days crying but I thought maybe he fell? He often came out crying and no one said anything.
When things came to light after the observation I found out he was seeking a quiet corner which I thought was very sad.

But I was quickly corrected by Aims then and told this is typical of a child with a diagnosis.

I felt like she was just ticking boxes I felt after I Enquired and chased up with calls like alarm bells were ringing! I was told next step is they hire someone and then the aims call back on a month. So for the first month nothing is done to organise assistance!? I was like what!?!? A whole month. I was hanging off the edge of my seat waiting for this and a whole month with an extra member of staff and no plan no structure. So what happens in a month all the things aims promised and discussed sounds amazing but in reality all I could see was all talk no action.

Hard to hear when your the mother and then when they add on their technical terms it's dosent help!
It just proves that the ecce numbers that have been created 11:1 it's really full on.
Aims is a waste of time so really is it?
If all these kids are losing out.
Home tuition is probably the way to go but then the child is losing out on social skills.
But they have plenty of time to make friends!
The home tuition helps for one on one language skills focus and attention that they won't get anywhere else.

Moonbeam

Am I right in understanding this child will start in primary school the day that they turn 4?
So a September baby?

Cork Trucker

Moonbeam wrote: »

Am I right in understanding this child will start in primary school the day that they turn 4?
So a September baby?

Yes that's correct, i once put a child into junior infants who was born in the final days of September, a full month behind the rest of the class.

Moonbeam

"once" or the child in question? The child will be the youngest in the child by at least 6 months and many kids will be over 1 1 and a half years older? Is this not making life a lot harder for the child? I am surprised the school will take a child that young.

Gatling

Another thing to look at once your child is in primary school they will be moved from the early intervention list and moved to the school aged team who likely won't look at the file for nearly 2 years ,

Cork Trucker

Moonbeam wrote: »

"once" or the child in question? The child will be the youngest in the child by at least 6 months and many kids will be over 1 1 and a half years older? Is this not making life a lot harder for the child? I am surprised the school will take a child that young.

Once previously, this will be the second occasion. The child will be the youngest, but not by 6 months, I’m at a loss as to where that figure came from. The gap could be as large as 20 months from oldest down to youngest, I am aware of other children born in the months of June/July 2016 who will be in the class.