Greenway Map

magicbastarder · 03-02-2018 11:09am

can google maps calculate the total length of the routes plotted on it?

riddlinrussell · 05-02-2018 10:55am

magicbastarder wrote: »

can google maps calculate the total length of the routes plotted on it?

Not entirely certain, anyone can freely export the data I've drawn for their own use if they like, so theres probably an easy way to get that info. As a rough guide, if you look at the Northern Ireland section, everything from Proposed through Completed is approximately 1000 km of cycleway according to the Greenways Plan for NI

Fian · 05-02-2018 1:11pm

Thud wrote: »

It's doable on a road bike, it's part paved, part gravel, pretty flat one small ramp at the dam, generally a lot of walkers and dogs on it though

Re the greenway up past the bohernabreena reservoir. I went up on my road bike saturday. Didn't go beyond the upper reservoir, because I didn't think teh surface was ideal for my tyres. really nice spot though, will return with a hybrid rather than road bike, planning to head up there with the kids on hybrid bikes.

Carawaystick · 07-02-2018 1:17am

Fian wrote: »

Re the greenway up past the bohernabreena reservoir. I went up on my road bike saturday. Didn't go beyond the upper reservoir, because I didn't think teh surface was ideal for my tyres. really nice spot though, will return with a hybrid rather than road bike, planning to head up there with the kids on hybrid bikes.

I've come down it on my road bike, its hard packed fine granite gravel, about the limit of a road bike. The Corpo have lots of signs up saying cyclists dismount coming down, but.... I remounted immediately...

It's only a short spin up to the featherbeds from the top of the reservoir road...

McTigs · 07-02-2018 10:01am

the tiny galway city section is my morning commute

Fian · 07-02-2018 10:43am

Carawaystick wrote: »

I've come down it on my road bike, its hard packed fine granite gravel, about the limit of a road bike. The Corpo have lots of signs up saying cyclists dismount coming down, but.... I remounted immediately...

It's only a short spin up to the featherbeds from the top of the reservoir road...

Yeah tbh i was fine going up as far as the second reservoir, except there was very little clearance on my mudguards so some stuff got stuck between tyres and mudguards. also came down without dismounting (slowly). I met a guy on a MTB coming down from beyond there and asked him what the surface was like beyond it - he told me it would ruin my tyres so I turned back. Might have gone for a look myself but I wanted to get back for Wales v Scotland. Anyway I will go next time on hybrid to see where it comes out, hadn't realised you could go on to featherbeds and I am trying to figure out if i can imagine where. That lower road from tallaght i guess that you can see from military road ( I have never been on that).

G-Man · 07-02-2018 1:57pm

Hi.. You really don't have to push the bike much up hill... As far as I know from a few years back . It can be comes out again through a gate on to the narrow roads.... Nice tough short climb out of there up towards military Rd.

whisky_galore · 12-02-2018 12:24pm

West Clare Railway Greenway Hits A Bump In The Road.

http://www.clare.fm/podcasts/west-clare-railway-greenway-hits-bump-road/

Carawaystick · 14-02-2018 12:27am

Fian wrote: »

Anyway I will go next time on hybrid to see where it comes out, hadn't realised you could go on to featherbeds and I am trying to figure out if i can imagine where. That lower road from tallaght i guess that you can see from military road ( I have never been on that).

Fill your boots
https://www.strava.com/segments/1329636

If you are going up there, you could do worse than start from Ringsend and follow the Dodder all the way up. The Waterfall at the M50 is a surprise.

Mucco · 14-02-2018 2:45pm

It's a great map.
Would it be possible to add a layer from Strava Heatmaps to show where people are already cycling?

fondriest · 14-02-2018 3:20pm

I see €12 million has been approved for the proposed Rosslare to Waterford greenway.

https://www.wexfordcoco.ie/community/recreational-and-community-development-projects/rosslare-to-waterford-city-greenway

schemingbohemia · 14-02-2018 3:45pm

fondriest wrote: »

I see €12 million has been approved for the proposed Rosslare to Waterford greenway.

https://www.wexfordcoco.ie/community/recreational-and-community-development-projects/rosslare-to-waterford-city-greenway

You might want to read that again.

"Construction costs of the greenway are estimated at €12 million."

They don't have the money yet as far as I know.

riddlinrussell · 14-02-2018 4:16pm

Mucco wrote: »

It's a great map.
Would it be possible to add a layer from Strava Heatmaps to show where people are already cycling?

I'm not sure how I'd go about adding it to google maps, the system they have is pretty basic, I could link to the heatmap on the map, its really amazing to see the bright areas where current greenways are, very 'if you build it, they will come'!

whisky_galore · 14-02-2018 5:49pm

Re the Waterford-Rosslare Greenway, what are they planning to do with the bridge that needs to open and close for shipping I wonder?

schemingbohemia · 14-02-2018 6:49pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Re the Waterford-Rosslare Greenway, what are they planning to do with the bridge that needs to open and close for shipping I wonder?

Presumably it would operate like other remote controlled railway crossings, likely to be a gate brought down on both sides to prevent access.

Those neglecting to stop will end up wet and/or dead, quite the incentive to actually obey the signalling.

fondriest · 14-02-2018 7:07pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

You might want to read that again.

"Construction costs of the greenway are estimated at €12 million."

They don't have the money yet as far as I know.

Some kind of information brochure about economic and community investment arrived at home from the county council this week and it certainly seems like it’s approved .

knockoutned · 14-02-2018 10:33pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

West Clare Railway Greenway Hits A Bump In The Road.

http://www.clare.fm/podcasts/west-clare-railway-greenway-hits-bump-road/

All I could think of listening to that was the D'Unbelievables Crimebusters, "Sure, ye cant be doin dat lads"

whisky_galore · 15-02-2018 9:33am

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Presumably it would operate like other remote controlled railway crossings, likely to be a gate brought down on both sides to prevent access.

Those neglecting to stop will end up wet and/or dead, quite the incentive to actually obey the signalling.

It has to be manned during openings, it's not remote control, I assume the Council would love to have to pay for him to come out to open and close it and contribute towards the upgrading, maintenance and upkeep of a huge specialised structure.

whisky_galore · 15-02-2018 9:35am

knockoutned wrote: »

All I could think of listening to that was the D'Unbelievables Crimebusters, "Sure, ye cant be doin dat lads"

Would you be happy if someone proposed taking a slice off your front garden without your consent?

woody1 · 15-02-2018 12:51pm

there is a proposal to convert the existing western way from Ballycastle in mayo to Bellacorrick and on through the Ballycroy national park into newport into a greenway and join it to the existing greenway

riddlinrussell · 15-02-2018 1:28pm

Any chance you could find that proposal? I haven't had any luck finding it online.

woody1 · 15-02-2018 1:39pm

NPWS’s divisional manager for the west Denis Strong said that, “The Western Way already runs from Connemara through the Nephins to Ballycastle and the idea is that we will work with consultants on a conversion plan that develops walking and cycle routes. This is a long-term project, and today is the first chapter.”

few other bits in the local papers, id spend a fair bit of time out that direction and ive heard it on the grapevine a lot, there wont be any cpo's needed , the western way is already there, but id imagine its a long term project ..

riddlinrussell · 15-02-2018 1:49pm

Fantastic! I'll get it down as maybe 'Potential' for now, if I ever find time I'll try and link articles/Plans to the 'Proposed and Planned' lines so people know i'm not just pulling them from nowhere.

EDIT: Added it in as a few sections, Ignored the section around Westport as I'd assume they will link in to the GWG to save on work, would make a nice shorter 'Newport-Westport loop' if they built both though....

knockoutned · 15-02-2018 3:50pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Would you be happy if someone proposed taking a slice off your front garden without your consent?

This is Ireland, so no one is going to have their land taken without their consent. What happens when new motorway routes are proposed. Is property taken then without the owner’s consent? So less of the hyperbole and scare mongering as it serves no one.

It appears from the interview (and this is my only source) that Clare county council looked around and saw the success of the Mayo, Waterford and Westmeath greenways and thought it would be a good idea to see if one would be feasible in their county. They proposed a route using an old railway line and setup organising a public meeting to see if there was any interest, while also hoping to get the feedback of land owners that may be impacted. So, from the very start, they opened communication with all stakeholders. These things only work if everyone works together and buys into the project.

I’m not familiar with the route, but do CIE, Coillte, OPW or any other state agency still own the majority of the land? If it is as the IFA representative stated over 60 years since the route was taken up, were boundaries maintained or was land taken for private use. I know when they took up the Naas – Sallins line back around the same time, the land was given to neighbouring farmers. I also appreciate the point that old railway houses were purchased, with gardens now where the old tracks used to be, but why pick this route, if they don’t have access to most of the proposed land. Some alternative routes will need to be made, but isn’t this why they are out looking for feedback? My problem with the guy from the IFA was that he was just so negative about the whole thing. IFA says no!

This isn’t just a West Clare issue, but a national one. Looking at the greenway map, there are proposed projects all over the country. Mistakes should be learned from prior projects and best practices should be implemented so possible and genuine fears can be addressed. And here is where the IFA could be a very strong and influential voice. From the success of the current greenways built, and the positive feedback both locally and nationally, it would appear that the majority of the negativity is unfounded.

fondriest · 16-02-2018 12:05am

knockoutned wrote: »

This is Ireland, so no one is going to have their land taken without their consent. What happens when new motorway routes are proposed. Is property taken then without the owner’s consent? So less of the hyperbole and scare mongering as it serves no one.

I believe that’s exactly what does happen.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/losing_your_home/compulsory_purchase_and_compensation.html

Carawaystick · 16-02-2018 12:16am

woody1 wrote: »

NPWS’s divisional manager for the west Denis Strong said that, “The Western Way already runs from Connemara through the Nephins to Ballycastle and the idea is that we will work with consultants on a conversion plan that develops walking and cycle routes. This is a long-term project, and today is the first chapter.”

few other bits in the local papers, id spend a fair bit of time out that direction and ive heard it on the grapevine a lot, there wont be any cpo's needed , the western way is already there, but id imagine its a long term project ..

Is this likely to be on forestry roads?

knockoutned · 16-02-2018 2:03am

fondriest wrote: »

I believe that’s exactly what does happen.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/losing_your_home/compulsory_purchase_and_compensation.html

It looks like I misinterpreted consent in Whisky Galore's post

I thought he meant someone waking up one morning and their garden was gone without their knowledge! With a CPO, you may not be happy about it, but you are informed and compensated.

woody1 · 19-02-2018 12:16pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Is this likely to be on forestry roads?

yeah almost all of it is existing ( i have heard there may be some new bits added where the western way follows the road, to keep it all off road ) and the few bits of it i have been on are all decent forestry roads.. there are some parts of the western way where its boardwalk and narrow track so something will have to be done in those places..

whisky_galore · 20-02-2018 4:35pm

knockoutned wrote: »

It looks like I misinterpreted consent in Whisky Galore's post

I thought he meant someone waking up one morning and their garden was gone without their knowledge! With a CPO, you may not be happy about it, but you are informed and compensated.

Which may or may not be adequate, in the landowner's view.

By councils swaggering around in hi-vis and flashing CPO's around, all you're going to do is p*ss off and galvanise landowners into opposition.

CIE don't have any interests in the remains of the trackbed of West Clare anymore.

Tigerandahalf · 20-02-2018 5:37pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Which may or may not be adequate, in the landowner's view.

By councils swaggering around in hi-vis and flashing CPO's around, all you're going to do is p*ss off and galvanise landowners into opposition.

CIE don't have any interests in the remains of the trackbed of West Clare anymore.

Many of the farmers in greenway areas are barely scraping a living and hugely reliant on subsidies. Their areas will only benefit from greenways.

Greenways are becoming important infrastructure and if cpos are necessary they should be used in the greater interest of the country.

It may even be possible to run fibre broadband through some of these greenways in the future which would be another plus.

whisky_galore · 20-02-2018 5:59pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Many of the farmers in greenway areas are barely scraping a living and hugely reliant on subsidies. Their areas will only benefit from greenways.

Greenways are becoming important infrastructure and if cpos are necessary they should be used in the greater interest of the country.

It may even be possible to run fibre broadband through some of these greenways in the future which would be another plus.

You know Irish people can't see beyond the ends of their own noses? A farmer won't see any benefit unless he runs a B&B on the side. As far as he's concerned it's an intrusion, brought in by outsiders and he will be of that mind until someone engages with him and talks him round. Bullying and talking down to people won't achieve much.

I wouldn't go down the CPO road, do you want to bog down projects to a crawl? Then funding goes down the swanee and no-one gets anything.

eeeee · 20-02-2018 11:46pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

You know Irish people can't see beyond the ends of their own noses? A farmer won't see any benefit unless he runs a B&B on the side. As far as he's concerned it's an intrusion, brought in by outsiders and he will be of that mind until someone engages with him and talks him round. Bullying and talking down to people won't achieve much.

I wouldn't go down the CPO road, do you want to bog down projects to a crawl? Then funding goes down the swanee and no-one gets anything.

This is not true.
The majority of farmers are just scraping by, I can tell you that from experience. There are issues with the proximity of people to their businesses - for example neosporosis, spread by dog excrement: http://www.knowledgescotland.org/briefings.php?id=288 It induces abortion in heifers and cows, and people are extremely lazy in picking up after their dogs in the city, they're much, much worse in the country. The cost to the farmer of this is absolutely massive, and potentially devastating.
Also their darling mutt chasing cheep etc.

It can be done, but needs to be managed extremely carefully and safely for all involved. It has been done, and hopefully will continue to be done. But understanding on all sides is important.

blueballfc · 22-02-2018 5:06am

Mixed feeling on this tbh no tow path for barrow
https://mobile.twitter.com/frankmcdonald60/status/966381061080043521

whisky_galore · 22-02-2018 9:17am

blueballfc wrote: »

Mixed feeling on this tbh no two path for barrow
https://mobile.twitter.com/frankmcdonald60/status/966381061080043521

I don't see why everything 'has' to be surfaced and 'cycle friendly'. I find some of those places a bit sterile. Sometimes a walk without the world and his mother on bikes whizzing by is pleasant.

nilhg · 22-02-2018 10:14am

blueballfc wrote: »

Mixed feeling on this tbh no two path for barrow
https://mobile.twitter.com/frankmcdonald60/status/966381061080043521

Yes it seems Carlow have refused PP for the blueway, Kildare and Laois to be announced today, it'll be interesting to see how they decide, especially on Canal segments which are the majority of the application in both counties where flooding concerns won't apply.

nilhg · 22-02-2018 10:16am

whisky_galore wrote: »

I don't see why everything 'has' to be surfaced and 'cycle friendly'. I find some of those places a bit sterile. Sometimes a walk without the world and his mother on bikes whizzing by is pleasant.

On the canal based areas of the Blueway at least there are towpaths on both sides, no reason people can't walk on the "unimproved" side of they so wish.

Of course sometimes people want to walk with a buggy or small kids on bikes or someone in a wheelchair so a decent surface for them doesn't seem too much to ask.

riddlinrussell · 22-02-2018 12:27pm

nilhg wrote: »

On the canal based areas of the Blueway at least there are towpaths on both sides, no reason people can't walk on the "unimproved" side of they so wish.

Of course sometimes people want to walk with a buggy or small kids on bikes or someone in a wheelchair so a decent surface for them doesn't seem too much to ask.

An oft forgotten aspect is definitely the opportunity it presents for disabled people to enjoy the same experiences everyone else gets to, why should they not be allowed to experience the public canal towpath?

blueballfc · 22-02-2018 2:30pm

nilhg wrote: »

Yes it seems Carlow have refused PP for the blueway, Kildare and Laois to be announced today, it'll be interesting to see how they decide, especially on Canal segments which are the majority of the application in both counties where flooding concerns won't apply.

looks like Laois got behind it
https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/home/298564/breaking-laois-backs-controversial-barrow-blueway-which-is-rejected-by-carlow.html

magicbastarder · 22-02-2018 2:34pm

riddlinrussell wrote: »

An oft forgotten aspect is definitely the opportunity it presents for disabled people to enjoy the same experiences everyone else gets to, why should they not be allowed to experience the public canal towpath?

maybe i'm misunderstanding - but so far, i'm not aware of any issues in relation to canal towpaths, this is more specifically about a river path?

probably easier and less controversial to provide a path where there has historically been a constructed path anyway. less prone to the flooding concern too.

riddlinrussell · 22-02-2018 4:15pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe i'm misunderstanding - but so far, i'm not aware of any issues in relation to canal towpaths, this is more specifically about a river path?

probably easier and less controversial to provide a path where there has historically been a constructed path anyway. less prone to the flooding concern too.

If there is a river path then it must have been constructed? I imagine the Barrow navigation, similar to the Lagan Navigation, is a combination of river and canal, using the natural course where it can, the river sections will still have a constructed towpath, and if walkers can use it I think it unfair that it isn't accessible to all. It's not the same as a mountain trail where it may be totally impractical to make it accessible, its a dead flat trail along a river.

lamaq · 22-02-2018 5:10pm

The 'Barrow Navigation' predates the Royal and Grand Canals. From Athy to Saint Mullin's it uses the Barrow river, with locks on some sections. There has always been a towpath on one side of the river since the navigation was opened.

blueballfc · 23-02-2018 9:19am

blueballfc wrote: »

looks like Laois got behind it
https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/home/298564/breaking-laois-backs-controversial-barrow-blueway-which-is-rejected-by-carlow.html

and my final update for the county councils of Leinster, looks like Kildare approved, that will give c.a 70 km. approved. Wonder will the go to An Bord Pleanála with the Carlow part
http://www.kfmradio.com/news/23022018-0751/permission-granted-kildare-barrow-blueway-project

nilhg · 23-02-2018 9:51am

blueballfc wrote: »

and my final update for the county councils of Leinster, looks like Kildare approved, that will give c.a 70 km. approved. Wonder will the go to An Bord Pleanála with the Carlow part
http://www.kfmradio.com/news/23022018-0751/permission-granted-kildare-barrow-blueway-project

It's a bit concerning that local reports such as the KFM above are saying that the permission is to Athy rather than Maganey, Athy would be Canal only whereas Maganey would include the top part of the Barrow navigation.

Interesting days ahead.

Tigerandahalf · 23-02-2018 10:08am

Will the Barrow Greenway link up with the Waterford - New Ross Greenway eventually?
It must be over 100km?

nilhg · 23-02-2018 10:45am

Confirmed on local radio just now, Kildare CC have given permission for the Grand Canal section from Lowtown to Athy but not the Barrow navigation from Athy on to Jerusalem just outside Carlow.

There will be a continuous 49Km section if Waterways Ireland goes ahead with the what they have permission for, whether they go to An Bord Pleanala for the rest will be interesting to see

Johnboy1951 · 23-02-2018 6:22pm

OP,

At the Waterford end of the NewRoss to Waterford greenway, the development plan for the North Quays includes a cycle, pedestrian and public transport bridge across the river to the Clock Tower on the south side of the river.
This bridge will join the NewRoss greenway to the Waterford greenway with the Waterford end being extended from Bilberry (where it presently ends on your map) to the Clock Tower.

This should probably be added in as Planned.

Your work on this map is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

riddlinrussell · 26-02-2018 5:39pm

Ive managed to find Cork City Cycle plan and I'll try and integrate it into the map, if anyone can get me some of these for the other cities/major towns I can get working on them, hard part is identifying where the councils plan to throw down paint and say 'eh good enough'. I want the 'cycleways' put down on the map to be properly kerb separated from traffic.

AckwelFoley · 26-02-2018 7:55pm

I use the Athlone to Mullingar greenway every week. Really enjoy it. Bit of a pain in the rear around athlone and moate if its busy with walkers and people standing in the middle of it with a buggy having a chat. But a fantastic facility

Carawaystick · 26-02-2018 8:11pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Will the Barrow Greenway link up with the Waterford - New Ross Greenway eventually?
It must be over 100km?

There's the "Mile Tunnel" from near the Ferry Bridge to the Barrow, and Google shows the railway line from there to Rosbercon fairly clearly. there are some forestry tracks along the barrow below St Mullins but some route would need to be engineered in between.

Wexford Co.Co have the "Norman Route" on-road signed down as far as the ferry at Ballyhack, where it joins the Eurovelo1 route.

I'd say KK council are the drivers of the NewRoss-Waterford section, I wonder how the 3 councils would work together to have a integrated network. I haven't seen any Waterford to Passage East cycling route proposed.

blueballfc · 04-03-2018 10:17pm

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1964542373808324&id=1549278628668036
Some progress

Greenway Map

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