Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Wanderer78 · 25-04-2021 7:14am

kenmc wrote:

So when mup has no tangible affect, what will they do next? Muppets.

More personal responsibility talk, and the like, I suspect, which will also fail

Pintman Paddy Losty · 25-04-2021 8:04am

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

Wanderer78 · 25-04-2021 9:03am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

pricing wont prevent or alter complex social issues

listermint · 25-04-2021 9:04am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

Oh the naivety is strong in this one.

If only there wasn't so many varied of examples of how prohibition works so well..

Macy0161 · 25-04-2021 9:15am

kenmc wrote: »

So when mup has no tangible affect, what will they do next? Muppets.

Say the mup is too low I imagine.

machiavellianme · 25-04-2021 9:15am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

Yeah because charging 7 euro a pint will stop people from doing the same thing :rolleyes:

jester77 · 25-04-2021 9:39am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

Hard to tell if you are being sarcastic, but as someone who hasn't lived in Ireland for over 20 years, that sounds very expensive for a locally mass produced beer. Here in Germany I can get locally produced beer at a fraction of that, and people are not out of control :eek:

Wanderer78 · 25-04-2021 9:41am

jester77 wrote: »

Hard to tell if you are being sarcastic, but as someone who hasn't lived in Ireland for over 20 years, that sounds very expensive for a locally mass produced beer. Here in Germany I can get locally produced beer at a fraction of that, and people are not out of control :eek:

those you see are not, those you dont......

Ohmeha · 25-04-2021 9:47am

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1386065290576924673?s=19

Minimum Alcohol Pricing really is nigh now

Now they are peddling out preventing covid as their latest desperate excuse to introduce this just in time for when the pubs re-open to sell pints with the inevitable euro or two price increase for the pleasure

The media are also contributing to this government scam by peddling the 'cheap alcohol' lie on their headlines

maestroamado · 25-04-2021 9:57am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

For me our drink culture is because we have absolutely nothing for our young folk to do after dark when people want to be out.
We need to create a different social model if we want to get away for the drink culture.
I have this conversation all the time and people say people say they will not go to these places.
My reply is they are not there to go to, i am talking about recreational indoor sports, games etc, it would have to be Government led, we also would have an insurance issue as soon as a place would open.
There is alot more to this than the price of drink.

Fr Tod Umptious · 25-04-2021 9:58am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

........

Actual figures would be useful, a crayoned-in map isn't really.
While Portugal is "one colour worse" than us on two measures, what is the actual difference? It may be substantial, it may be very small. Also different countries record illness in different ways, and some more accurately than others, so data is not always directly comparable.

More importantly, how does their alcohol consumption compare to ours?

France and Italy missing from the data is a massive omission.

The whole report is in my linked post.
You'll get more detail in that than just the maps.

KrustyUCC · 25-04-2021 10:05am

Brilliant plan from the government

Introduce MUP when the North is practically fully open

That's bound to make trips over the border even more of a draw

KrustyUCC · 25-04-2021 10:14am

Love how they're now trying to bring this in by linking 'cheap alcohol' to the spread of Covid

Shameless

Fr Tod Umptious · 25-04-2021 10:21am

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Brilliant plan from the government

Introduce MUP when the North is practically fully open

That's bound to make trips over the border even more of a draw

Just as a curiosity what locations in the republic are the tipping points for when going over the border for cheap booze is no longer economical.

People often throw out the idea that people will just head north after MUP, but for how many people is that really an option ?

I live so far south that it will never be economical, but I'm just wondering what locations would be where the cost of fuel and the time required no longer make any sense to travel north.

Economics101 · 25-04-2021 10:25am

As I understand it MUP will be specified as so much € per gram of pure alcohol. Pubs almost certainly charge more than this anyhow, so won't be affected. This will mean that the competition (off-licences) will lose out to pubs.

No wonder the licenced vintners' lobby favours MUP, continuing a good old tradition of the political power of the publican in Irish politics.

KrustyUCC · 25-04-2021 10:39am

Economics101 wrote: »

As I understand it MUP will be specified as so much € per gram of pure alcohol. Pubs almost certainly charge more than this anyhow, so won't be affected. This will mean that the competition (off-licences) will lose out to pubs.

No wonder the licenced vintners' lobby favours MUP, continuing a good old tradition of the political power of the publican in Irish politics.

Yup this measure is all about the pubs

Always has been since its been in the 2011 FG manifesto

I don't think this will have as big an effect for the pubs as its made out to be

Pubs will still be dearer than off licences

Just mean average person who already pays amongst the dearest for alcohol in Europe will need to be ripped off even more

Ger Roe · 25-04-2021 10:45am

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Yup this measure is all about the pubs

Always has been since its been in the 2011 FG manifesto

I don't think this will have as big an effect for the pubs as its made out to be

Pubs will still be dearer than off licences

Just mean average person who already pays amongst the dearest for alcohol in Europe will need to be ripped off even more

.... with the Government now gifting the imposed additional rip off margin to the retailer. Imaging any other commercial sector being ordered to increase their prices and make more of a profit.

KrustyUCC · 25-04-2021 10:48am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Just as a curiosity what locations in the republic are the tipping points for when going over the border for cheap booze is no longer economical.

People often throw out the idea that people will just head north after MUP, but for how many people is that really an option ?

I live so far south that it will never be economical, but I'm just wondering what locations would be where the cost of fuel and the time required no longer make any sense to travel north.

Cork to Belfast is €70 fuel return

The same bottle of whiskey that's €12 .37 in the North will be €22.09 here after MUP

You can get a case of the same whisky for €74 which would be €132.54 here

There little less €50 in savings straight away on the exact same product

People won't believe how much MUP is going to gouge the Irish consumer

KrustyUCC · 25-04-2021 10:51am

I wouldn't make a trip just for alcohol BTW

But if if I was taking a holiday up North and I'm seriously looking into that anyway it would make sense to do some shopping on the way home

Lot more economical from Dublin, border counties, midlands

Tiger Roll · 25-04-2021 10:56am

Not related to MUP as such but Tesco are starting a clubcard rewards thing next weekend where you get an item at a certain price if you use a clubcard . Bottle of Bailey's 21euro ,with clubcard it's 9 euro. Carlsberg 12 pack cans 17 euro,with clubcard it's 12 euro . I thought loyalty cards can't be used as a promotion under new legislation. Be interesting to see how it pans out

ShamNNspace · 25-04-2021 11:00am

Might be a business there for someone buying up north and delivering south nice and quiet... minimum order €50 maybe or something like that

the beer revolu · 25-04-2021 11:17am

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Might be a business there for someone buying up north and delivering south nice and quiet... minimum order €50 maybe or something like that

Smuggling of alcohol is hardly a new idea.

odyssey06 · 25-04-2021 11:31am

Tiger Roll wrote: »

Not related to MUP as such but Tesco are starting a clubcard rewards thing next weekend where you get an item at a certain price if you use a clubcard . Bottle of Bailey's 21euro ,with clubcard it's 9 euro. Carlsberg 12 pack cans 17 euro,with clubcard it's 12 euro . I thought loyalty cards can't be used as a promotion under new legislation. Be interesting to see how it pans out

Obriens and lidl do similar.
As long as the discount is available to anyone with the card ie not tied to spending it seems to be ok.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 25-04-2021 12:02pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Brilliant plan from the government

Introduce MUP when the North is practically fully open

That's bound to make trips over the border even more of a draw

Inter-county travel is illegal so I don't know how you think this is going to happen any time soon.

Most people will not bother their arse driving to the north to pick up a slab of their favourite cheap grog. There will be no substantial difference for anyone who buys a nice premium drink. This will reduce the alcohol intake of the flagon of cider merchants which can't come soon enough.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 25-04-2021 12:11pm

jester77 wrote: »

Hard to tell if you are being sarcastic, but as someone who hasn't lived in Ireland for over 20 years, that sounds very expensive for a locally mass produced beer. Here in Germany I can get locally produced beer at a fraction of that, and people are not out of control :eek:

machiavellianme wrote: »

Yeah because charging 7 euro a pint will stop people from doing the same thing :rolleyes:

listermint wrote: »

Oh the naivety is strong in this one.

If only there wasn't so many varied of examples of how prohibition works so well..

Wanderer78 wrote: »

pricing wont prevent or alter complex social issues

I thnk we should have MUP for trollfood - it appears to be way too cheap.

withnail_is_i · 25-04-2021 12:35pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Inter-county travel is illegal so I don't know how you think this is going to happen any time soon.

Most people will not bother their arse driving to the north to pick up a slab of their favourite cheap grog. There will be no substantial difference for anyone who buys a nice premium drink. This will reduce the alcohol intake of the flagon of cider merchants which can't come soon enough.

Too many posts to be a fully fledged troll, so somebody would have to assume it's a government lacky account.
People have been known to venture as far as France via ferry to purchase discount booze, so there is zero data alleging nobody would drive across the border.

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

There will be no substantial difference for anyone who buys a nice premium drink. This will reduce the alcohol intake of the flagon of cider merchants which can't come soon enough.

Again, that is incorrect. You really haven't looked into this at all, have you?
Bottleneck pricing is created immediately in the lower tier sales, pushing the prices up right across the board. The breweries also get an eyeful of the profits that the retailers are receiving and of course will want their cut.
There are so many other factors to consider, you might want to read up a little on the subject before your next post. Just a suggestion.

Roger_007 · 25-04-2021 12:36pm

If a can of beer goes up by, say, €1, who pockets that money. Will the drinks companies take advantage and increase the price to the retailer by €1 or will the retailer pocket all the money?
Or maybe they will just split the difference?

Ger Roe · 25-04-2021 12:41pm

Roger_007 wrote: »

If a can of beer goes up by, say, €1, who pockets that money. Will the drinks companies take advantage and increase the price to the retailer by €1 or will the retailer pocket all the money?
Or maybe they will just split the difference?

Probably split the difference. We live in a very strange economy in this country - very little price competition in anything and lots of cozy arrangements, no matter how many various sector 'regulators' we invent.

Whatever way the new government imposed dividend is carved up the consumer will end up paying for it, as usual..... except in this case it is blatantly planned to be that way.

the beer revolu · 25-04-2021 12:42pm

Roger_007 wrote: »

If a can of beer goes up by, say, €1, who pockets that money. Will the drinks companies take advantage and increase the price to the retailer by €1 or will the retailer pocket all the money?
Or maybe they will just split the difference?

Anyone who claims to know what is going to happen is misguided.
It's a very competitive market and it will adapt if mup comes in.
It won't be as simple as the price of everything going up across the board but what it will look like, no one really knows.

KrustyUCC · 25-04-2021 12:58pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Inter-county travel is illegal so I don't know how you think this is going to happen any time soon.

Most people will not bother their arse driving to the north to pick up a slab of their favourite cheap grog. There will be no substantial difference for anyone who buys a nice premium drink. This will reduce the alcohol intake of the flagon of cider merchants which can't come soon enough.

Thousands cross the border every day

Intercounty might be illegal but it's happening wholesale as it is

Latest plan is for intercounty travel in June anyway which would just be at the point MUP comes in according to the Indo

If you don't think the premium drinks will up their prices by the same amount as the 'cheap grog' you'll be mistaken

withnail_is_i · 25-04-2021 1:03pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Anyone who claims to know what is going to happen is misguided.
It's a very competitive market and it will adapt if mup comes in.
It won't be as simple as the price of everything going up across the board but what it will look like, no one really knows.

The data from Scotland begs to differ.
The price rise across the board refers to the range of products affected, not every single product increasing in price which I suspect you understood it to mean, there are many products already priced higher that may not increase any further, while other products will, to relieve the problems caused by the bottleneck.

Housefree · 25-04-2021 1:11pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Cork to Belfast is €70 fuel return

The same bottle of whiskey that's €12 .37 in the North will be €22.09 here after MUP

You can get a case of the same whisky for €74 which would be €132.54 here

There little less €50 in savings straight away on the exact same product

People won't believe how much MUP is going to gouge the Irish consumer

You will only have to go a few feet over the border, somewhere like Jonesbourgh will set up for wholesale drink supplies, same way it has done for fireworks

the beer revolu · 25-04-2021 1:13pm

withnail_is_i wrote: »

The data from Scotland begs to differ.
The price rise across the board refers to the range of products affected, not every single product increasing in price which I suspect you understood it to mean.
There are many products already priced higher that may not increase any further, whole others will to relieve the problems caused by the bottleneck.

But people are claiming that the price of all drinks will increase, across the board.
I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know what exactly is going to happen. It's a complex market.

Roger_007 · 25-04-2021 4:13pm

withnail_is_i wrote: »

The data from Scotland begs to differ.
The price rise across the board refers to the range of products affected, not every single product increasing in price which I suspect you understood it to mean, there are many products already priced higher that may not increase any further, while other products will, to relieve the problems caused by the bottleneck.

In other words the price of drink that the affluent in society tend to buy will be unaffected while the ‘peasants’ will have to pay more for their favourite tipple?

kerryjack · 25-04-2021 5:31pm

Roger_007 wrote: »

In other words the price of drink that the affluent in society tend to buy will be unaffected while the ‘peasants’ will have to pay more for their favourite tipple?

Will I still get 8 cans of Heineken for 14 euro

Capt'n Midnight · 25-04-2021 6:12pm

Roger_007 wrote: »

If a can of beer goes up by, say, €1, who pockets that money. Will the drinks companies take advantage and increase the price to the retailer by €1 or will the retailer pocket all the money?
Or maybe they will just split the difference?

The large distributors and wholesalers will take as much as they can get away with.

The supermarket own brands won't have to share with anyone.

Excise duty will drop if alcohol consumption drops.

VAT revenue won't increase unless people start buying cheaper food or less clothes which might lead to increased health spending later on.

Mr. teddywinkles · 25-04-2021 6:25pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The large distributors and wholesalers will take as much as they can get away with.

The supermarket own brands won't have to share with anyone.

Excise duty will drop if alcohol consumption drops.

VAT revenue won't increase unless people start buying cheaper food or less clothes which might lead to increased health spending later on.

Don't forget the use of drugs increasing

elperello · 25-04-2021 6:51pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

But people are claiming that the price of all drinks will increase, across the board.
I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know what exactly is going to happen. It's a complex market.

You are correct that we don't have a crystal ball to foretell the future.

However we can with confidence predict that this will be an intervention in the market to artificially increase prices to the consumer.

That is never good news for your pocket.

VinLieger · 25-04-2021 10:24pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Excise duty will drop if alcohol consumption drops.

Who are you kidding they will never lower excise duty.

ohnonotgmail · 25-04-2021 10:36pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

But people are claiming that the price of all drinks will increase, across the board.
I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know what exactly is going to happen. It's a complex market.

manufacturers will want to maintain a price differential between their premium products and the lower end of the market.

Geuze · 25-04-2021 10:37pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can.

Where is this cheap beer?

Cans of beer (50cl) start at 29 cent in Germany, that is cheap.

A price of 1.00 euro is good for Ireland, yes, but still high compared to macro, mass-produced beer in other countries.

rob316 · 25-04-2021 11:04pm

Meh just as well I started home brewing last year.

Capt'n Midnight · 25-04-2021 11:27pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Who are you kidding they will never lower excise duty.

Excise duty was cut in 2009 as any publican will tell you.

Excise on beer hasn't gone up since 2014 as any publican will tell you.

Regardless the total amount of excise duty collected will fall if consumption drops.

VinLieger · 26-04-2021 7:35am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Excise duty was cut in 2009 as any publican will tell you.

Excise on beer hasn't gone up since 2014 as any publican will tell you.

Regardless the total amount of excise duty collected will fall if consumption drops.

It was lowered in 2009 due to the economic crisis and as a political motive to gather votes, it hasn't been raised since 2014 as the vintners and nimbys have been lobbying hard for MUP as a replacement since 2011.

Big Gerry · 26-04-2021 7:03pm

The price of drink in Ireland is already the 2nd highest in Europe.

If anything we should be paying less not more for drink.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/irish-alcohol-prices-are-second-highest-in-the-eu-wmfzhskf7

ohnonotgmail · 26-04-2021 8:36pm

Big Gerry wrote: »

The price of drink in Ireland is already the 2nd highest in Europe.

If anything we should be paying less not more for drink.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/irish-alcohol-prices-are-second-highest-in-the-eu-wmfzhskf7

shush now, you can't use facts to argue against MUP. that's cheating.

ShamNNspace · 26-04-2021 8:55pm

The lower classes must be infantilised and protected from themselves at all costs, find what they enjoy and tax the hell out of it under the guise of health or whatever and leave those who appreciate and understand and can afford a good wine or brandy and the finer things in life to enjoy them properly in the manner in which they have become accustomed

Akesh · 26-04-2021 9:00pm

We are a disgraceful nanny state. It's actually embarrassing. I don't know how the people of Ireland aren't calling out for direct democracy.

Vote for the same charlatans every year and expect different results. We get what we deserve.

odyssey06 · 26-04-2021 9:01pm

ShamNNspace wrote: »

The lower classes must be infantilised and protected from themselves at all costs, find what they enjoy and tax the hell out of it under the guise of health or whatever and leave those who appreciate and understand and can afford a good wine or brandy and the finer things in life to enjoy them properly in the manner in which they have become accustomed

Or they must spend their money in an approved gombeen (rent seeker) run establishment.

ShamNNspace · 26-04-2021 9:24pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Or they must spend their money in an approved gombeen (rent seeker) run establishment.

Tis true, twould drive a man or woman to drink if they thought about it too much

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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