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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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    #7592
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    bilston wrote: »
    He is empathetic with the players. I think most players appreciate that.

    When he first started he wasn't like that. But, like anyone, he has matured and got better over the years. He may be the best in the business at the minute.

    He absolutely is. One of the things that annoyed me about England getting to the RWC final, obviously, outside of being in Tokyo when they were in the RWC final was the fact that Barnes wouldn't get to ref it and he was retiring at that point don't forget.

    He's by far the best ref in world rugby these days and the maturity and improvement that has come over the years is staggering.

    When you see the state of the decisions that Owens made today it couldn't be clearer.

    I mean, I'd take Barnes reffing us v England before I would take Owens reffing us v Wa... anyone.


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    #7593
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,996 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Owens is poor ref, makes it up as he goes along. Ignores loads of offenses, until he doesn't. Usually timed to showcase himself at a climatic moment. See Landowne Rd 2018


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    #7594
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,656 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Kearney joining Western Force https://twitter.com/westernforce/status/1310836712092971021?s=19


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    #7595
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    Owens is poor ref, makes it up as he goes along. Ignores loads of offenses, until he doesn't. Usually timed to showcase himself at a climatic moment. See Landowne Rd 2018

    Not sure what match you're referring to? The only matches we had at home in 2018 that Nigel was in charge of was Italy in the Autumn Internationals.

    I get some of the criticism he attracts, but he's set to be the first ref to officiate 100 tests in November. You don't get to that by being a bad ref.


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    #7596
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    aloooof wrote: »
    I get some of the criticism he attracts, but he's set to be the first ref to officiate 100 tests in November. You don't get to that by being a bad ref.

    He wasn't a bad ref, but he's far, far from the top of his game these days.


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    #7597
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,996 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    aloooof wrote: »
    Not sure what match you're referring to? The only matches we had at home in 2018 that Nigel was in charge of was Italy in the Autumn Internationals.

    I get some of the criticism he attracts, but he's set to be the first ref to officiate 100 tests in November. You don't get to that by being a bad ref.

    I wouldn't take longevity as a guarantee of quality. He lets far too much go in the game for my liking, seeming to prefer having things flow, rather than enforce the laws consistently. He's also quite arrogant, in that he will often get a call wrong and refuse to correct it upon advice from the TMO. Someone wrote it on another board, when he says "For me.." in such a conference, it's a dead give away his about to make up some nonsense.


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    #7598
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    4 of my 10 favourite games in the last 10 years were refereed by Owen's. That's enough for me to consider him a great. Not the best any more but still great.

    And a damned site better than any of the rubbish France has.


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    #7599
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,656 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Pool draw for 2023 RWC made in December. We're in band 2: https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1312036478978084866?s=19


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    #7600
    kuang1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭kuang1


    I'm confused... Did we already know that the rankings from January this year would be applied?
    Thought it was to be rankings as of early December?


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    #7601
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Pool draw for 2023 RWC made in December. We're in band 2: https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1312036478978084866?s=19

    With the likely 4 and 5 band qualifiers unlikely to cause too much hassle to those bands above them the best case scenario for Ireland at this point in time would be

    Wales
    Ireland
    Fiji
    Europe 1 - Georgia/ Romania?
    Namibia

    Not seeing too many permutations of a "group of death" really. Australia being in tier 2 meaning they could be pitted against England, NZ or South Africa but can't see anyone in band 3 causing any upsets


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    #7602
    guapos
    Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭guapos


    kuang1 wrote: »
    I'm confused... Did we already know that the rankings from January this year would be applied?
    Thought it was to be rankings as of early December?

    That's what I thought, pity as would have made November games more interesting.


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    #7603
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,656 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    kuang1 wrote: »
    I'm confused... Did we already know that the rankings from January this year would be applied?
    Thought it was to be rankings as of early December?

    It was meant to be but with covid they've gone back to January. More detail here: https://www.world.rugby/news/590670/stage-set-for-rugby-world-cup-2023-draw


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    #7604
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,656 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    arsebiscuits1 wrote: »
    With the likely 4 and 5 band qualifiers unlikely to cause too much hassle to those bands above them the best case scenario for Ireland at this point in time would be

    Wales
    Ireland
    Fiji
    Europe 1 - Georgia/ Romania?
    Namibia

    Not seeing too many permutations of a "group of death" really. Australia being in tier 2 meaning they could be pitted against England, NZ or South Africa but can't see anyone in band 3 causing any upsets

    NZ/SA or even England plus Argentina wouldn't be great. Sure last year was meant to be a grand pool so who knows really!


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    #7605
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,996 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Be nice to lose to someone new in the 1/4s. Perhaps England or SA this time out?


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    #7606
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    https://www.world.rugby/news/590670/stage-set-for-rugby-world-cup-2023-draw

    Just when you thought making a World Cup draw based on rankings 3 years out from a World Cup was bad enough World Rugby went one further today and decided take the 2023 World Cup pools should be made based on how you did in the 2019 World Cup �� you couldn’t make it up, what a shambles.


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    #7607
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    guapos wrote: »
    That's what I thought, pity as would have made November games more interesting.

    I'm delighted

    That means we can have no excuse in November to blood new players and try new things, in a meaningless competition.

    No excuse of "won't someone think of the ranking points" to be used as a crutch.

    I'd like to see guys like mcclosky and farrell get decent game time to see if they can be game influencers at test level


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    #7608
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    What would be nice is if we win our group at least have a team in the KO phase that isn’t NZL or a really inform side. Like Wales get THAT French team in 2019, we never get a situation like that, it’s either NZL or a team in such good form that we question if we would prefer NZL...


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    #7609
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    If I am being honest I don’t think it would be matter as much this year as France in France (plus France not being **** for the first time in 9 years) , Australia under Dave Rennie & most likely Wales if the ranking from December counted would have all been very difficult matches anyway.

    Just so long as we avoid Argentina I am happy as truth be told this draw should be a formality for any team that has aspirations of making a semi final never mind winning a World Cup.

    Personally I would love England/Wales as it would be fun banter for 3 years as would add a bit of spice to the matches between the two over the 6N’s and then hopefully Italy/Fiji...honestly just NOT Argentina.


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    #7610
    Guinness RFC
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Guinness RFC


    Newsflash we won’t be getting near a World Cup semi for the next ten years. What I can see of the crowd coming through they’re solid but not world beaters. Our chance was when O Driscoll was playing that era. Nothing like those sorts of players coming through nowadays but I hope I’m wrong


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    #7611
    Richie_Rich89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    arsebiscuits1 wrote: »
    With the likely 4 and 5 band qualifiers unlikely to cause too much hassle to those bands above them the best case scenario for Ireland at this point in time would be

    Wales
    Ireland
    Fiji
    Europe 1 - Georgia/ Romania?
    Namibia

    Not seeing too many permutations of a "group of death" really. Australia being in tier 2 meaning they could be pitted against England, NZ or South Africa but can't see anyone in band 3 causing any upsets

    Best case scenario for getting out of the group maybe (although Fiji would be tougher opponents than Italy).

    It'd be better to have NZ or SA in the pool to reduce the chances of meeting them in the quarters.


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    #7612
    Leinstertomas
    Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Leinstertomas


    Guinness RFC wrote: »
    Newsflash we won’t be getting near a World Cup semi for the next ten years. What I can see of the crowd coming through they’re solid but not world beaters. Our chance was when O Driscoll was playing that era. Nothing like those sorts of players coming through nowadays but I hope I’m wrong

    Hardly unrealistic. We have beaten every T1 team in last few year. Don't need a team of world beaters to win a QF


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    #7613
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Guinness RFC wrote: »
    Newsflash we won’t be getting near a World Cup semi for the next ten years. What I can see of the crowd coming through they’re solid but not world beaters. Our chance was when O Driscoll was playing that era. Nothing like those sorts of players coming through nowadays but I hope I’m wrong


    I would guess this comment was made based on emotion and not facts or logic.


    You obviously havent really been watching the crowd coming through if you think they cant be world beaters.


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    #7614
    Richie_Rich89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    Leinstertomas wrote: »
    Hardly unrealistic. We have beaten every T1 team in last few year. Don't need a team of world beaters to win a QF

    Have you watched Ireland at World Cups? Struggling against Georgia and Namibia and losing to Japan is the type of thing we see.


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    #7615
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    We seriously need some sort of sport physcologist or something as its quite clearly a mental thing. These past 2 QF's we frooze completly for 20 minutes and let the opponent get a lead we cant catch before we start trying to play rugby, even Japan have played a QF with more confidence than we have. For me Ireland in 2019 were alot like England in 2015, once we went past the structers the coaching team had in place we really struggled to break teams down and there was little ability to think on their feet. In 2018 that was the best we had seen things from Ireland when Joe wasnt a total control freak but in 2019 things sadly went back, probably due to anxiety after the England humping, and we got the **** show we had. According to Best the team were allowed to do their own thing after the 57-15 loss to England and went on to beat Wales x2 and Scotland and then apparently they went back into control vs Japan and look what happened. Once that happened that was the final blow for this team I think after those England x2 humping's and Wales.

    Also when you set the bar so low that getting to a semi final is the aim its no wonder we go in so deflated. We are consistently in the top 4 in the world rankings yet thats where the bar is set? I know we have never got that far but still if we aimed to win a WC maybe if things werent perfect we would still have a chance of a semi at worst.


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    #7616
    Richie_Rich89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    We seriously need some sort of sport physcologist or something as its quite clearly a mental thing. These past 2 QF's we frooze completly for 20 minutes and let the opponent get a lead we cant catch before we start trying to play rugby, even Japan have played a QF with more confidence than we have. For me Ireland in 2019 were alot like England in 2015, once we went past the structers the coaching team had in place we really struggled to break teams down and there was little ability to think on their feet. In 2018 that was the best we had seen things from Ireland when Joe wasnt a total control freak but in 2019 things sadly went back, probably due to anxiety after the England humping, and we got the **** show we had. According to Best the team were allowed to do their own thing after the 57-15 loss to England and went on to beat Wales x2 and Scotland and then apparently they went back into control vs Japan and look what happened. Once that happened that was the final blow for this team I think after those England x2 humping's and Wales.

    Also when you set the bar so low that getting to a semi final is the aim its no wonder we go in so deflated. We are consistently in the top 4 in the world rankings yet thats where the bar is set? I know we have never got that far but still if we aimed to win a WC maybe if things werent perfect we would still have a chance of a semi at worst.

    They just don't seem to be able to overcome things going against them. If something goes wrong it just snowballs from there instead of them being able to adjust and take things in their stride.


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    #7617
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Richie_Rich89 wrote: »
    They just don't seem to be able to overcome things going against them. If something goes wrong it just snowballs from there instead of them being able to adjust and take things in their stride.


    Exactly and again that was the difference in 2018 when the team was allowed do their own thing.
    Overall under Schmidt when things went wrong we were the most un adaptable team of any of the top 10 nations, either the opponent will beat us or we will find a way to lose. Both QF performances were just laughably amature from a side you should be expecting to at the very least hold their own but instead look like a tier 2 side... You watch Scotland against Australia in 2015, Wales in 2015 & 2019, Japan in 2019... etc if we at the very least put in performances like that I would atleast have some pride in the team, I wont even set the bar too high and ask for the team to actually turn up and play well in these matches but just actually turn up and look like they have some sort of gameplan.


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    #7618
    Guinness RFC
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Guinness RFC


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    I would guess this comment was made based on emotion and not facts or logic.


    You obviously havent really been watching the crowd coming through if you think they cant be world beaters.

    Why would my opinion be based on emotion. It’s based on judgement and in my view we have very few physically dominant or extra talented players coming through.

    I defer to your superior judgement - enlighten me - who are the extraordinarily talented youngsters coming through. Bear in mind the bar I have set with My O Driscoll comparisson is 3 tries against France in Paris at the age of 21. Who in the current set up is anywhere near that?


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    #7619
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Guinness RFC wrote: »
    Why would my opinion be based on emotion. It’s based on judgement and in my view we have very few physically dominant or extra talented players coming through.

    I defer to your superior judgement - enlighten me - who are the extraordinarily talented youngsters coming through. Bear in mind the bar I have set with My O Driscoll comparisson is 3 tries against France in Paris at the age of 21. Who in the current set up is anywhere near that?

    Damn who knew one champions cup defeat could be so damaging.

    If you are looking for physically dominant players you are already looking for the wrong things. Give it time, the fact you are making a prediction 10 years down the line makes me think this is based on emotion.

    If you are seriously comparing rugby in 2000 to 2020 then I really don’t get the point in trying to debate this. Just look at BOD’s build in 2000 and you will see just how bad it is to compare that with rugby in the current climate.

    For the record one player I can name is Jacob Stockdale who was the record 6N try scorer and player of the tournament. Again give it time, we have a long way to go before France 2023

    Just lo


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    #7620
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,900 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    The All Blacks in the group stages would be good plus and a major test thats not a knockout game


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    #7621
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    A lot of the players who will be playing in the World Cup in 10 years time haven't even emerged yet. The players are currently between 15 - 20, with some of the young established players sprinkled in - so making predictions based off incoming upcoming talent is daft.


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