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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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AbusesToilets

Owens is poor ref, makes it up as he goes along. Ignores loads of offenses, until he doesn't. Usually timed to showcase himself at a climatic moment. See Landowne Rd 2018

Eod100

Kearney joining Western Force https://twitter.com/westernforce/status/1310836712092971021?s=19

aloooof

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Owens is poor ref, makes it up as he goes along. Ignores loads of offenses, until he doesn't. Usually timed to showcase himself at a climatic moment. See Landowne Rd 2018

Not sure what match you're referring to? The only matches we had at home in 2018 that Nigel was in charge of was Italy in the Autumn Internationals.

I get some of the criticism he attracts, but he's set to be the first ref to officiate 100 tests in November. You don't get to that by being a bad ref.

Podge_irl

aloooof wrote: »

I get some of the criticism he attracts, but he's set to be the first ref to officiate 100 tests in November. You don't get to that by being a bad ref.

He wasn't a bad ref, but he's far, far from the top of his game these days.

AbusesToilets

aloooof wrote: »

Not sure what match you're referring to? The only matches we had at home in 2018 that Nigel was in charge of was Italy in the Autumn Internationals.

I get some of the criticism he attracts, but he's set to be the first ref to officiate 100 tests in November. You don't get to that by being a bad ref.

I wouldn't take longevity as a guarantee of quality. He lets far too much go in the game for my liking, seeming to prefer having things flow, rather than enforce the laws consistently. He's also quite arrogant, in that he will often get a call wrong and refuse to correct it upon advice from the TMO. Someone wrote it on another board, when he says "For me.." in such a conference, it's a dead give away his about to make up some nonsense.

Yeah_Right

4 of my 10 favourite games in the last 10 years were refereed by Owen's. That's enough for me to consider him a great. Not the best any more but still great.

And a damned site better than any of the rubbish France has.

Eod100

Pool draw for 2023 RWC made in December. We're in band 2: https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1312036478978084866?s=19

kuang1

I'm confused... Did we already know that the rankings from January this year would be applied?
Thought it was to be rankings as of early December?

arsebiscuits1

Eod100 wrote: »

Pool draw for 2023 RWC made in December. We're in band 2: https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1312036478978084866?s=19

With the likely 4 and 5 band qualifiers unlikely to cause too much hassle to those bands above them the best case scenario for Ireland at this point in time would be

Wales
Ireland
Fiji
Europe 1 - Georgia/ Romania?
Namibia

Not seeing too many permutations of a "group of death" really. Australia being in tier 2 meaning they could be pitted against England, NZ or South Africa but can't see anyone in band 3 causing any upsets

guapos

kuang1 wrote: »

I'm confused... Did we already know that the rankings from January this year would be applied?
Thought it was to be rankings as of early December?

That's what I thought, pity as would have made November games more interesting.

Eod100

kuang1 wrote: »

I'm confused... Did we already know that the rankings from January this year would be applied?
Thought it was to be rankings as of early December?

It was meant to be but with covid they've gone back to January. More detail here: https://www.world.rugby/news/590670/stage-set-for-rugby-world-cup-2023-draw

Eod100

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

With the likely 4 and 5 band qualifiers unlikely to cause too much hassle to those bands above them the best case scenario for Ireland at this point in time would be

Wales
Ireland
Fiji
Europe 1 - Georgia/ Romania?
Namibia

Not seeing too many permutations of a "group of death" really. Australia being in tier 2 meaning they could be pitted against England, NZ or South Africa but can't see anyone in band 3 causing any upsets

NZ/SA or even England plus Argentina wouldn't be great. Sure last year was meant to be a grand pool so who knows really!

AbusesToilets

Be nice to lose to someone new in the 1/4s. Perhaps England or SA this time out?

UAEguy2020

https://www.world.rugby/news/590670/stage-set-for-rugby-world-cup-2023-draw

Just when you thought making a World Cup draw based on rankings 3 years out from a World Cup was bad enough World Rugby went one further today and decided take the 2023 World Cup pools should be made based on how you did in the 2019 World Cup &#55357;&#56834; you couldn’t make it up, what a shambles.

sydthebeat

guapos wrote: »

That's what I thought, pity as would have made November games more interesting.

I'm delighted

That means we can have no excuse in November to blood new players and try new things, in a meaningless competition.

No excuse of "won't someone think of the ranking points" to be used as a crutch.

I'd like to see guys like mcclosky and farrell get decent game time to see if they can be game influencers at test level

UAEguy2020

What would be nice is if we win our group at least have a team in the KO phase that isn’t NZL or a really inform side. Like Wales get THAT French team in 2019, we never get a situation like that, it’s either NZL or a team in such good form that we question if we would prefer NZL...

UAEguy2020

If I am being honest I don’t think it would be matter as much this year as France in France (plus France not being **** for the first time in 9 years) , Australia under Dave Rennie & most likely Wales if the ranking from December counted would have all been very difficult matches anyway.

Just so long as we avoid Argentina I am happy as truth be told this draw should be a formality for any team that has aspirations of making a semi final never mind winning a World Cup.

Personally I would love England/Wales as it would be fun banter for 3 years as would add a bit of spice to the matches between the two over the 6N’s and then hopefully Italy/Fiji...honestly just NOT Argentina.

Guinness RFC

Newsflash we won’t be getting near a World Cup semi for the next ten years. What I can see of the crowd coming through they’re solid but not world beaters. Our chance was when O Driscoll was playing that era. Nothing like those sorts of players coming through nowadays but I hope I’m wrong

Richie_Rich89

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

With the likely 4 and 5 band qualifiers unlikely to cause too much hassle to those bands above them the best case scenario for Ireland at this point in time would be

Wales
Ireland
Fiji
Europe 1 - Georgia/ Romania?
Namibia

Not seeing too many permutations of a "group of death" really. Australia being in tier 2 meaning they could be pitted against England, NZ or South Africa but can't see anyone in band 3 causing any upsets

Best case scenario for getting out of the group maybe (although Fiji would be tougher opponents than Italy).

It'd be better to have NZ or SA in the pool to reduce the chances of meeting them in the quarters.

Leinstertomas

Guinness RFC wrote: »

Newsflash we won’t be getting near a World Cup semi for the next ten years. What I can see of the crowd coming through they’re solid but not world beaters. Our chance was when O Driscoll was playing that era. Nothing like those sorts of players coming through nowadays but I hope I’m wrong

Hardly unrealistic. We have beaten every T1 team in last few year. Don't need a team of world beaters to win a QF

UAEguy2020

Guinness RFC wrote: »

Newsflash we won’t be getting near a World Cup semi for the next ten years. What I can see of the crowd coming through they’re solid but not world beaters. Our chance was when O Driscoll was playing that era. Nothing like those sorts of players coming through nowadays but I hope I’m wrong

I would guess this comment was made based on emotion and not facts or logic.

You obviously havent really been watching the crowd coming through if you think they cant be world beaters.

Richie_Rich89

Leinstertomas wrote: »

Hardly unrealistic. We have beaten every T1 team in last few year. Don't need a team of world beaters to win a QF

Have you watched Ireland at World Cups? Struggling against Georgia and Namibia and losing to Japan is the type of thing we see.

UAEguy2020

We seriously need some sort of sport physcologist or something as its quite clearly a mental thing. These past 2 QF's we frooze completly for 20 minutes and let the opponent get a lead we cant catch before we start trying to play rugby, even Japan have played a QF with more confidence than we have. For me Ireland in 2019 were alot like England in 2015, once we went past the structers the coaching team had in place we really struggled to break teams down and there was little ability to think on their feet. In 2018 that was the best we had seen things from Ireland when Joe wasnt a total control freak but in 2019 things sadly went back, probably due to anxiety after the England humping, and we got the **** show we had. According to Best the team were allowed to do their own thing after the 57-15 loss to England and went on to beat Wales x2 and Scotland and then apparently they went back into control vs Japan and look what happened. Once that happened that was the final blow for this team I think after those England x2 humping's and Wales.

Also when you set the bar so low that getting to a semi final is the aim its no wonder we go in so deflated. We are consistently in the top 4 in the world rankings yet thats where the bar is set? I know we have never got that far but still if we aimed to win a WC maybe if things werent perfect we would still have a chance of a semi at worst.

Richie_Rich89

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

We seriously need some sort of sport physcologist or something as its quite clearly a mental thing. These past 2 QF's we frooze completly for 20 minutes and let the opponent get a lead we cant catch before we start trying to play rugby, even Japan have played a QF with more confidence than we have. For me Ireland in 2019 were alot like England in 2015, once we went past the structers the coaching team had in place we really struggled to break teams down and there was little ability to think on their feet. In 2018 that was the best we had seen things from Ireland when Joe wasnt a total control freak but in 2019 things sadly went back, probably due to anxiety after the England humping, and we got the **** show we had. According to Best the team were allowed to do their own thing after the 57-15 loss to England and went on to beat Wales x2 and Scotland and then apparently they went back into control vs Japan and look what happened. Once that happened that was the final blow for this team I think after those England x2 humping's and Wales.

Also when you set the bar so low that getting to a semi final is the aim its no wonder we go in so deflated. We are consistently in the top 4 in the world rankings yet thats where the bar is set? I know we have never got that far but still if we aimed to win a WC maybe if things werent perfect we would still have a chance of a semi at worst.

They just don't seem to be able to overcome things going against them. If something goes wrong it just snowballs from there instead of them being able to adjust and take things in their stride.

UAEguy2020

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

They just don't seem to be able to overcome things going against them. If something goes wrong it just snowballs from there instead of them being able to adjust and take things in their stride.

Exactly and again that was the difference in 2018 when the team was allowed do their own thing.
Overall under Schmidt when things went wrong we were the most un adaptable team of any of the top 10 nations, either the opponent will beat us or we will find a way to lose. Both QF performances were just laughably amature from a side you should be expecting to at the very least hold their own but instead look like a tier 2 side... You watch Scotland against Australia in 2015, Wales in 2015 & 2019, Japan in 2019... etc if we at the very least put in performances like that I would atleast have some pride in the team, I wont even set the bar too high and ask for the team to actually turn up and play well in these matches but just actually turn up and look like they have some sort of gameplan.

Guinness RFC

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

I would guess this comment was made based on emotion and not facts or logic.

You obviously havent really been watching the crowd coming through if you think they cant be world beaters.

Why would my opinion be based on emotion. It’s based on judgement and in my view we have very few physically dominant or extra talented players coming through.

I defer to your superior judgement - enlighten me - who are the extraordinarily talented youngsters coming through. Bear in mind the bar I have set with My O Driscoll comparisson is 3 tries against France in Paris at the age of 21. Who in the current set up is anywhere near that?

UAEguy2020

Guinness RFC wrote: »

Why would my opinion be based on emotion. It’s based on judgement and in my view we have very few physically dominant or extra talented players coming through.

I defer to your superior judgement - enlighten me - who are the extraordinarily talented youngsters coming through. Bear in mind the bar I have set with My O Driscoll comparisson is 3 tries against France in Paris at the age of 21. Who in the current set up is anywhere near that?

Damn who knew one champions cup defeat could be so damaging.

If you are looking for physically dominant players you are already looking for the wrong things. Give it time, the fact you are making a prediction 10 years down the line makes me think this is based on emotion.

If you are seriously comparing rugby in 2000 to 2020 then I really don’t get the point in trying to debate this. Just look at BOD’s build in 2000 and you will see just how bad it is to compare that with rugby in the current climate.

For the record one player I can name is Jacob Stockdale who was the record 6N try scorer and player of the tournament. Again give it time, we have a long way to go before France 2023

Just lo

PTH2009

The All Blacks in the group stages would be good plus and a major test thats not a knockout game

theVersatile

A lot of the players who will be playing in the World Cup in 10 years time haven't even emerged yet. The players are currently between 15 - 20, with some of the young established players sprinkled in - so making predictions based off incoming upcoming talent is daft.

Clegg

Jamison Gibson-Park is the best scrum half in Ireland right now.

Discuss.