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Everest

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    #122
    TheRepentent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    Spleerbun wrote: »
    Not disputing anything you say, but just curious then why they never brought this greenboots chap down (among others I would imagine)?
    He's clearly not buried all the time if people are taking pictures of him and know exactly where he is
    They walk by him. There's a picture online where guide ropes pass by his feet.

    From what I can gather the height he's at(just under 30,000 feet above sea level) makes it dangerous for anyone to try and remove him as it puts the alive climbers at risk by doing so.


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    #123
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    IIRC, green boots was moved a few years ago, pushed off the route.


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    #124
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Mayyybe I'm a cold heartless SoB but:

    The family are looking for 750k to attempt to recover him. Moving in the TCD circles he does Im sure they'll get it but it strikes me as a very poor use of public generosity. He engaged in a high risk endeavour and it didnt work out. Thats sad but should the charitable efforts of the public be so heavily expended to recover a cadaver? There'll always be a more needy cause if you choose to look for one but this seems very very far down the charitable book of quantum.


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    #125
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    I always presumed that the bodies of those who died we're left on the mountain.


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    #126
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Bodies on Everest isnt an urban legend but using them as markers is. Its just that the body would be buried in a snow drift and then it wouldnt appear until the following climbing season when the snow melts. From there Sherpas would get the body down for repatriation to their family.

    As far as rescues go if Sherpas can see the body and get to it then they will recover it. Generally they will, Sherpas have mountaineering ability far above all of their customers paying to get to the top of Everest. I met Kami Rita Sherpa a few years back at Everest Base Camp,he holds the world record for summits of Everest and is currently on 23 with a whole load of other Sherpas not far behind him on the late teens. You dont go up and down Everest 23 times without accident unless you are a world class mountaineer. He definitely is as are all the climbing Sherpas operating on it.

    Not only are these lads summiting Everest they are also setting up all the ropes and guiding people to the top and rescuing wherever necessary. They exert huge amounts of energy at high altitudes so all the customer has to do is put their gear on and put one foot in front of the other. While summiting Everest is an impressive feat unless you are a world class mountaineer none of it would be possible without the Sherpa support structure that is in place.

    Bodies are generally not recovered because at or above 8000 metres or at lower altitudes - even the Sherpas risk life and limb to do so. Finding and attempting to bring down the weight of a dead body is beyond the strength and endurance of even many of the best. Dead climbers often rest where they fall or are found many years later.

    There has been some concerted efforts by the Chinese authorities and others to move or otherwise dispose of bodies along the main climbing routes in recent years. A case in point is Green Boots. Afaik - it is believed that he was disposed of by pushing the body off the mountain. To date the body had certainly not been repatriated to his family for sure but it is reported that the body is no longer where he laid for many years following his death

    A sad account and footage of green boots

    https://youtu.be/sGmIOmWg8No


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    #127
    refusetolose
    Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭refusetolose


    Atoms for Peace wrote: »
    I always presumed that the bodies of those who died we're left on the mountain.

    the sherpas will attempt it if its possible
    if the price is right


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    #128
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    refusetolose wrote: »
    the sherpas will attempt it if its possible
    if the price is right

    They risk their lives to do so. Operating in a high altitude and low oxygen environment, even for Sherpas the recovery of bodies is extremely dangerous. The question remains should they risk their lives for the recovery of a dead body? That some do - perhaps explains more about them as people than any financial compensation for doing so.


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    #129
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    ED E wrote: »
    Mayyybe I'm a cold heartless SoB but:

    The family are looking for 750k to attempt to recover him. Moving in the TCD circles he does Im sure they'll get it but it strikes me as a very poor use of public generosity. He engaged in a high risk endeavour and it didnt work out. Thats sad but should the charitable efforts of the public be so heavily expended to recover a cadaver? There'll always be a more needy cause if you choose to look for one but this seems very very far down the charitable book of quantum.

    75k


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    #130
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,524 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    ED E wrote: »
    Mayyybe I'm a cold heartless SoB but:

    The family are looking for 750k to attempt to recover him. Moving in the TCD circles he does Im sure they'll get it but it strikes me as a very poor use of public generosity. He engaged in a high risk endeavour and it didnt work out. Thats sad but should the charitable efforts of the public be so heavily expended to recover a cadaver? There'll always be a more needy cause if you choose to look for one but this seems very very far down the charitable book of quantum.

    People are entitled to spend their money as they they wish. It's private money not public so doesn't concern anyone but the donor and recipient.


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    #131
    refusetolose
    Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭refusetolose


    Yurt! wrote: »
    75k

    gofundme page says 750k


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    #132
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,129 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    If it was just a matter of raising money to get a body retrieved from the mountain, then why is there approx 200 of them still up there?


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    #133
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    refusetolose wrote: »
    gofundme page says 750k

    Many of the people donating on that page are leaving a message to say they hope he is found safe and well.........


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    #134
    refusetolose
    Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭refusetolose


    NIMAN wrote: »
    If it was just a matter of raising money to get a body retrieved from the mountain, then why is there approx 200 of them still up there?

    well i suppose some of them are impossible to get at or maybe lost
    others don't have the money i guess
    maybe others told their families to leave them there if anything happens?


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    #135
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    refusetolose wrote: »
    well i suppose some of them are impossible to get at or maybe lost
    others don't have the money i guess
    maybe others told their families to leave them there if anything happens?

    I've head it's fair common to walk past dead bodies on the various routes.
    It's madness to risk more lives to get a body but of course some sherpas will take it on if the price is right.
    I would guess most families of the dead don't have the means to start a €750,000 search mission.


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    #136
    refusetolose
    Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭refusetolose


    tuxy wrote: »
    I've head it's fair common to walk past dead bodies on the various routes.
    It's madness to risk more lives to get a body but of course some sherpas will take it on if the price is right.
    I would guess most families of the dead don't have the means to start a €750,000 search mission.

    yeah, the article posted earlier from the new york times seemed to suggest that they retrieved 2 indian guys for 90k last year though so dunno whats up with the 750k

    the indian guys were relatively easy to get at though,one was still on the route with his ropes tied up,frozen solid


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    #137
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    I've just read the gofund me and it's deliberately written to make people think that there is a good chance he is still alive and the money raised will be used to try to bring him back alive.
    Is the gofund me actually run by the family or is someone using this tragic event to make some easy money?

    https://www.gofundme.com/seamus-lawless


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    #138
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,129 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    It looks like its run by his family, his wife's name is on it.

    I'm wondering what exactly insurance would cover you for when climbing Everest?


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    #139
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    The RTE article states 75k.

    I think it's important to be accurate, as in typical After Hours fashion, there's a confederation of know-it-alls in full swing trying to frame him and his family as greedy and irresponsible.

    Stay classy AH.


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    #140
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Yurt! wrote: »
    The RTE article states 75k.

    I think it's important to be accurate, as in typical After Hours fashion, there's a confederation of know-it-alls in full swing trying to frame him and his family as greedy and irresponsible.

    Stay classy AH.

    You confirmed my suspicions this go fund me is a fraud! Don't donate.
    https://www.gofundme.com/seamus-lawless

    They even have a mistake included saying he went missing on Thursday the 15th of May, there was no Thursday 15th May this year!
    That along with all the details stating that it is still a rescue mission to find him alive.


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    #141
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    NIMAN wrote: »
    It looks like its run by his family, his wife's name is on it.

    I'm wondering what exactly insurance would cover you for when climbing Everest?

    I believe insurance would cover helicopter rescue(weather permitting) and medical costs.
    I don't think any insurance would cover the recovering of cadavers.


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    #142
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,270 ✭✭✭✭fits


    http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2019/05/17/too-many-deaths/

    Article is not complimentary of the guiding company.


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    #143
    Tokyo
    Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    NIMAN wrote: »
    If it was just a matter of raising money to get a body retrieved from the mountain, then why is there approx 200 of them still up there?

    To use a crude but accurate analogy.

    Have you ever tried to get a chicken fillet out of the back of the freezer, where it's been frozen into the surrounding ice in the freezer? Imagine trying to do the same when:
    • the chicken fillet weighs 80kg (plus another 80kg of ice)
    • You're at the cruising altitude of a 747
    • Your body is shutting down
    • You're possibly going to die in the attempt

    Most mountaineers accept that if they expire on the mountain, that's to be their final resting place. And there has been an ongoing campaign to "inter" their bodies on the mountain as of late - climbing teams have lowered bodies over the edge off the main route, or into a crevasse (I'm pretty sure that "Green Boots" body was moved a few years back. But some families have footed the cost of having the bodies of their loved ones repatriated, however, I imagine that is very much dependent on the location of the climber to begin with.


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    #144
    Tokyo
    Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    fits wrote: »
    http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2019/05/17/too-many-deaths/

    Article is not complimentary of the guiding company.

    I agree with some of the overarching points in that article, however it very much tells a story of "experienced western guides" ousted by "local inexperienced Nepalese guides". Considering that virtually every western climber since 1953 has depended on teams of local sherpas to get them to the summit, it paints a very negative and biased picture IMO.


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    #145
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,270 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Where is Russell Brice’s company now? They don’t seem to have a presence anymore.


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    #146
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Interesting documentary about the Sherpas and how the climbs are for them:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6pLnf40OM0

    Thanks - v interesting documentary & exploding the myth that sherpas love climbing & do it for the joy. A gruelling hard life with the ever presence of the risk of death or lifechanging injury -just to earn enough to keep your family together or send your children to school.

    Rest in Peace to that poor man and God help his poor wife and little family. Lets hope they never read this thread. A life is meant to be more than exististing or subsisting -and we all need a chance to follow our dreams.


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    #147
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,270 ✭✭✭✭fits


    fits wrote: »
    Where is Russell Brice’s company now? They don’t seem to have a presence anymore.


    Just had a look. Costs 70 k but their stats speak for themselves. http://himalayanexperience.com/home-2/expeditions/8000meters/everest/


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    #148
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,270 ✭✭✭✭fits


    mike_ie wrote: »
    fits wrote: »
    http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2019/05/17/too-many-deaths/

    Article is not complimentary of the guiding company.

    I agree with some of the overarching points in that article, however it very much tells a story of "experienced western guides" ousted by "local Nepalese guides". Considering that virtually every western climber since 1953 has depended on teams of local sherpas to get them to the summit, it paints a very negative and biased picture IMO.


    I know what you are saying but this company has had five fatalities this year alone. Himex by comparison has had none in what 20 years of operation?


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    #149
    Blazer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,418 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    tuxy wrote: »
    You confirmed my suspicions this go fund me is a fraud! Don't donate.
    https://www.gofundme.com/seamus-lawless

    They even have a mistake included saying he went missing on Thursday the 15th of May, there was no Thursday 15th May this year!
    That along with all the details stating that it is still a rescue mission to find him alive.

    Mightn't be a scam but looking for 750k to hire a team of sherpas to look over Mt Everest to find a body is absolutely farcical not to mention a complete waste of money.
    Don't these people even read about Mt Everest and the other so called 8000 footers?


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    #150
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,129 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    mike_ie wrote: »
    To use a crude but accurate analogy.

    Have you ever tried to get a chicken fillet out of the back of the freezer, where it's been frozen into the surrounding ice in the freezer? Imagine trying to do the same when:
    • the chicken fillet weighs 80kg (plus another 80kg of ice)
    • You're at the cruising altitude of a 747
    • Your body is shutting down
    • You're possibly going to die in the attempt

    Most mountaineers accept that if they expire on the mountain, that's to be their final resting place. And there has been an ongoing campaign to "inter" their bodies on the mountain as of late - climbing teams have lowered bodies over the edge off the main route, or into a crevasse (I'm pretty sure that "Green Boots" body was moved a few years back. But some families have footed the cost of having the bodies of their loved ones repatriated, however, I imagine that is very much dependent on the location of the climber to begin with.

    I fully understand, hence my reason for saying 200 people are lying dead on Everest rather than being brought down.


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    #151
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    JustAThought wrote: »

    Rest in Peace to that poor man and God help his poor wife and little family. Lets hope they never read this thread. A life is meant to be more than exististing or subsisting -and we all need a chance to follow our dreams.

    True, but at the same time it shouldn't be on the pretence of charity or risk of life to others.


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