Guns N' Roses Discussion Thread

rednik · 03-01-2012 11:48am

I would agree with you Motley. The band have treated fans like crap for a long time. I can remember Slane though the performance was fantastic the wait was ridiculous.

The band have been getting good reviews on their US tour and thiis is on the GNR forums as Ron would know. I don't believe Axl is washed up and I look forward to seeing the band again but I find it hard to believe they will play here again.

Here is a link to a poll for tour of the year 2011 which includes Rush, GNR, Motley Crue, Journey and Alice Cooper. 230,000 voted in this poll.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/guns-n-roses-2011-tour-of-the-year-winner/

Mental Mickey · 03-01-2012 2:11pm

Motley Crue wrote: »

IN MY OPINION....not to be meant as any sort of attack on yourself personally, just as a general word to those who have expressed a similar opinion to your own on these Boards.ie

You're entitled to your opinion, but the fact is that I've seen washed up, I've seen washed up so badly they could hardly find the stage they were so pissed and they played off key the entire night. I've seen bands fall on their arse due to being wasted and then singing the wrong lyrics to the wrong songs.

Fact is, Axl is not washed up, and if you don't want to see him then you're perfectly within your right's to either bash him or just not attend any GNR performances...but please, enough with the "let the name die" bull**** because anyone old enough to have seen the "original" or the "classic" or the "ultimate" Guns N' Roses line up in concert will tell you, without hesitation, that that band had more problems and more addictions between 5/6/7 members then a rehab clinic

Guns N' Roses were a bunch of snot nosed bullish youth's who could barely play instruments, so a record company took them and polished them into a fine diamond of money making potential, not really giving a crap about the members (current or former) and tossed them into the snakepit. NOBODY foretold how popular this band we're going to become, outselling not only their LA mainstays like Motley Crue but also outselling bands like Metallica and even outselling Pop bands...this was unheard of.

What happened? Most of the members got so drunk they didn't realise what day it was, snorted so much cocaine they were running out of money on the highest grossing tour in US history at it's peak, and performed a set of acceptable and bullish Punk/Rock/Metal songs that managed to make them millionaires. On top of that their lead vocalist was allowed to get away with absurd behaviour and this was tolerated because nobody could restrain him or tell him what to do - yet, despite not performing in cities named 'M' after his physic told him he would be shot there, despite leaving a gig after 10 minutes due to faulty sound which resulted in riots (and the fans could have chosen to be pissed and leave, like in Dublin, or they could choose to beat the police and overturn vehicles and smash the glass of the arena like in St Louis) he was still forced to go on tour once with a broken foot, because, the label told him he had too.

It's funny how people look back at GNR with rose tinted glasses and say "hey, this band was the pinnacle of rock and roll excess, the most dangerous band (and the coolest and most talented) in the world" but the fact is, it's well documented, that the old GNR were just nostalgia defined. That's why Duff McKagan just supported GNR in America, because he can't remember those audiences the first several times around, and he wasn't sober and old enough to appreciate it.

Maybe "washed-up" was/is the wrong term, but I really do believe that Axl's(and GnR's)best days are long gone. "Chinese Democracy" just cements this for me(in my opinion).

Motley Crue · 03-01-2012 2:26pm

rednik wrote: »

I would agree with you Motley. The band have treated fans like crap for a long time. I can remember Slane though the performance was fantastic the wait was ridiculous.

Indeed, and it's good to see they're able to actually tour the US and provide amazing shows for people who really enjoy their music. I'd encourage you to check out the Las Vegas and LA pro shot material from November and December 2011, case in point of a band with good chemistry.

A lot of people seem to forget that if Slash or Duff was wasted and unable to play on-stage, it was usually Axl who got the blame as he was a front man and bore that burden, but their UK Stadium tour in 1992 was nearly cancelled (and all the shows dramatically cut down) because Duff was so sick from drinking

RonMexico · 05-01-2012 4:32pm

Motley Crue wrote: »

Fact is, Axl is not washed up, and if you don't want to see him then you're perfectly within your right's to either bash him or just not attend any GNR performances...but please, enough with the "let the name die" bull**** because anyone old enough to have seen the "original" or the "classic" or the "ultimate" Guns N' Roses line up in concert will tell you, without hesitation, that that band had more problems and more addictions between 5/6/7 members then a rehab clinic

And...your point is what exactly?

Guns N' Roses were a bunch of snot nosed bullish youth's who could barely play instruments, so a record company took them and polished them into a fine diamond of money making potential, not really giving a crap about the members (current or former) and tossed them into the snakepit. NOBODY foretold how popular this band we're going to become, outselling not only their LA mainstays like Motley Crue but also outselling bands like Metallica and even outselling Pop bands...this was unheard of.

Sorry but the bit in bold is rubbish.

RonMexico · 05-01-2012 4:39pm

Motley Crue wrote: »

A lot of people seem to forget that if Slash or Duff was wasted and unable to play on-stage, it was usually Axl who got the blame as he was a front man and bore that burden, but their UK Stadium tour in 1992 was nearly cancelled (and all the shows dramatically cut down) because Duff was so sick from drinking

How many shows were cancelled/delayed because of Slash&Duff and how many were cancelled/delayed because of Axl?

Axl wins that one by a mile. In fact I don't recall any show being delayed/cancelled because of anyone other than Axl.

He might not be "washed up" these days but he certainly is unprofessional and out of shape. His voice on this latest tour has been all over the place because he couldn't be arsed rehearsing or getting in shape for the tour.

He has released one mediocre album in 17 years. I'd say bar losing his voice completely he is damn close to being considered washed up & irrelevant. Lucky that he has a great touring band to make up for his crappy attitude. We will see how long it lasts.

Motley Crue · 05-01-2012 5:14pm

RonMexico wrote: »

Axl wins that one by a mile. In fact I don't recall any show being delayed/cancelled because of anyone other than Axl.

He might not be "washed up" these days but he certainly is unprofessional and out of shape. His voice on this latest tour has been all over the place because he couldn't be arsed rehearsing or getting in shape for the tour.

Where is this coming from? He's 49 and didn't sing live for almost a decade in his 30s, that kind of damage has to be made up, and compared to how he sounded in 2002 he sounds a hell of a lot better.

And while it's true that Axl's cancellations have more well documented then Duff or Slash's (or because Duff and Slash would go on stage drunk and high and Axl wouldn't go on if he hadn't had the right water) Axl is doing a far better job then Vince Neil, who is someone who has constantly gone out and performed when he cannot compete with the speed of the songs, cannot remember the lyrics and just cannot sing. And I love MOTLEY CRUE but it's just Nikki and Sixx AM trying now.

RonMexico · 05-01-2012 5:41pm

Are we supposed to feel sorry for him now or something? His problems have been all of his own doing from day one. He has treated people like dirt since he could open his mouth and now it is all coming back to bite him on the ass. Fact is, as talented as Axl Rose is, he chose to spend his thirties out of the limelight pursuing all manner of quakery, mystics and new age mumbo jumbo, filling his head with nonsense not to mention that Brazilian housekeeper of his and her family who are the closest thing to Yoko Ono there is.

The guy has wasted his talent when he should have been at his prime. His output since GNR broke up has exposed him for what he is - a talented, narcisstic nut with a persecution complex who chose to alienate all his bandmates and in the process spend millions on what has turned out to be the most expensive flop album of all time.

He hasn't dragged GNR's legacy through the mud, only his own. Everyone in the music business knows that he is a fruit and he has burned so many bridges now he has to resort to being managed by his housekeeper.

He might not be burned out but he is certainly in Spinal Tap territory these days.

Mental Mickey · 05-01-2012 5:43pm

RonMexico wrote: »

Are we supposed to feel sorry for him now or something? His problems have been all of his own doing from day one. He has treated people like dirt since he could open his mouth and now it is all coming back to bite him on the ass. Fact is, as talented as Axl Rose is, he chose to spend his thirties out of the limelight pursuing all manner of quakery, mystics and new age mumbo jumbo, filling his head with nonsense not to mention that Brazilian housekeeper of his and her family who are the closest thing to Yoko Ono there is.

The guy has wasted his talent when he should have been at his prime. His output since GNR broke up has exposed him for what he is - a talented, narcisstic nut with a persecution complex who chose to alienate all his bandmates and in the process spend millions on what has turned out to be the most expensive flop album of all time.

He hasn't dragged GNR's legacy through the mud, only his own. Everyone in the music business knows that he is a fruit and he has burned so many bridges now he has to resort to being managed by his housekeeper.

He might not be burned out but he is certainly in Spinal Tap territory these days.

LOL

Motley Crue · 05-01-2012 10:42pm

RonMexico wrote: »

Fact is, as talented as Axl Rose is, he chose to spend his thirties out of the limelight pursuing all manner of quakery, mystics and new age mumbo jumbo, filling his head with nonsense not to mention that Brazilian housekeeper of his and her family who are the closest thing to Yoko Ono there is.

That couldn't be a fact since we don't actually know what Axl spent the best part of 10 years doing. He could have been up a mountain in Tibet, but asides from a vague sighting at a TOOL concert and that time he got arrested in an Airport in 1999, very very little information was about.

You think Axl is weird? What about all this stuff that Buckethead did, when he watched hardcore pornography in a chicken coop they built for him in the studio?

Anyway, thing is, Axl has his strings pulled by someone else...he is very detached with reality, but I pity him...and I wouldn't get so upset. As long as he keeps performing in concert and releasing records I'll go to see him and buy the albums.

Come to think of it, Elvis went this way too, didn't he?

lord lucan · 05-01-2012 11:26pm

One of the reasons Slash and Duff often turned up late was due to Axl's late starts. Slash mentions in his book that on the UYI tour they would turn up for the show and be ready to go. Axl would often fail to turn up until 23.00 or later so they had nothing better to do than read porn mags and knock back bottles of JD.

Axl would then saunter in and declare he was ready and the boys,wasted from hours of tedium and drinking would hit the stage. How they even played some of the shows given their level of coherence is beyond me.

scudzilla · 05-01-2012 11:49pm

Also in Duff's book he mentioned the final gig of the tour in Barcelona i think it was.

Him and Slash were called into the managers office and asked to sign a contract sayin that Axl had sole rights to the GnR name should either of them leave the band, if they refused to sign then Axl was not going to perform that night!!!!

Mental Mickey · 06-01-2012 9:56am

scudzilla wrote: »

Also in Duff's book he mentioned the final gig of the tour in Barcelona i think it was.

Him and Slash were called into the managers office and asked to sign a contract sayin that Axl had sole rights to the GnR name should either of them leave the band, if they refused to sign then Axl was not going to perform that night!!!!

The version that I heard of that story was/is that Axl made the other members of the band sign the same contract at the beginning of the band's life.

There is so much bull**** going around about these guys, nobody knows who/what to believe any more. :rolleyes:

Motley Crue · 06-01-2012 10:25am

Listen, at the end of the day, I don't care about Axl Rose as a person. But I do care about his musical ability because I enjoy listening to him and I want to hear him make more music (if for nothing else to make up for the 17 years between Spaghetti and Chinese Democracy)

He has told Eddie Trunk that he has at least 2 more albums worth of material, he has that recorded on tape and told the audience on VH1's Metal Show that this is true, so working with that I'd like to hear those other albums. And I like his performances, I feel their high energy and I get my money's worth (most of the time obviously) so I feel satisfied

And I'll say this, as much as I hate to admit it, during those first 5 songs in Dublin he was on the ball...he was exactly what I paid to see...and that's the kind of thing I've experienced at other venues. And that's the kind of thing other people just experienced in the US. Long let that continue.

Don't forget the bull****, don't feel sorry for him, hate him all you want...but he doesn't care, his fans don't care, and you'll end up wasting your hate....to quote James Hetfield

I just love his music, not who he is or what he looks like or what he stands for...if anything...I just listen to the music

RonMexico · 06-01-2012 12:35pm

I'm not wasting any hate, what I wasted was close to €100 the last time he rolled into town. Next time he is here I'll keep my money and instead wait for Slash or Duff to come and deliver great performances as the professionals that they are.

Mental Mickey · 06-01-2012 12:46pm

Motley Crue wrote: »

Listen, at the end of the day, I don't care about Axl Rose as a person. But I do care about his musical ability because I enjoy listening to him and I want to hear him make more music (if for nothing else to make up for the 17 years between Spaghetti and Chinese Democracy)

He has told Eddie Trunk that he has at least 2 more albums worth of material, he has that recorded on tape and told the audience on VH1's Metal Show that this is true, so working with that I'd like to hear those other albums. And I like his performances, I feel their high energy and I get my money's worth (most of the time obviously) so I feel satisfied

And I'll say this, as much as I hate to admit it, during those first 5 songs in Dublin he was on the ball...he was exactly what I paid to see...and that's the kind of thing I've experienced at other venues. And that's the kind of thing other people just experienced in the US. Long let that continue.

Don't forget the bull****, don't feel sorry for him, hate him all you want...but he doesn't care, his fans don't care, and you'll end up wasting your hate....to quote James Hetfield

I just love his music, not who he is or what he looks like or what he stands for...if anything...I just listen to the music

This is the problem. I didn't go to the last gig in the 02, but the s**tstorm that occured at the venue - and the abuse that he and MCD got aftewards - could have been avoided if he apologised to the people who paid good money to go to his concert.

The basic fact is, the guy doesn't have the manners/intelligence to do this, which is why he gets so much abuse.

I've seen them/him in concert twice: Slane '92 and the RDS in '06, and the difference in his behaviour was unreal. In 92, he kept the crowd waiting for over an hour, but in 06, he came onstage bang on time. My thinking behind this is, if it's his own gig, he doesn't give a flying ****, but if it's part of a festival(which the RDS gig was), he seems to pull his reins in.....?

Motley Crue · 06-01-2012 12:59pm

RonMexico wrote: »

I'm not wasting any hate, what I wasted was close to €100 the last time he rolled into town. Next time he is here I'll keep my money and instead wait for Slash or Duff to come and deliver great performances as the professionals that they are.

OK, no problem, and I know that these guys will put on a really professional show

I'm going to see Gilby in Edinburgh next month, and I expect him to be putting on an incredible show, he's only charging £11 for the pleasure.

Mental Mickey wrote: »

The basic fact is, the guy doesn't have the manners/intelligence to do this, which is why he gets so much abuse.

I'm not going to disagree with you, he's a very ignorant man, and lives in a bubble. But I enjoy his talent so I will continue listening to his music. But no, unlike bands such as Fear Factory and In Flames, he doesn't live on planet earth - he lives in a cocoon and expects everything to wait for him.

I completely agree with you, but I like the new GNR, I like their members and their image - so I'm happy to keep supporting them

But I completely agree that what happened in September 2010 at the 02 was a disgrace and shouldn't have been stood for. Yet, Ireland seemed to let MCD get away with their actions, as opposed to making sure everyone get refunded (because we know some people did, but MCD managed to - yet again - keep that quiet, didn't they?)

Mental Mickey · 06-01-2012 1:02pm

Motley Crue wrote: »

OK, no problem, and I know that these guys will put on a really professional show

I'm going to see Gilby in Edinburgh next month, and I expect him to be putting on an incredible show, he's only charging £11 for the pleasure.

I'm not going to disagree with you, he's a very ignorant man, and lives in a bubble. But I enjoy his talent so I will continue listening to his music. But no, unlike bands such as Fear Factory and In Flames, he doesn't live on planet earth - he lives in a cocoon and expects everything to wait for him.

I completely agree with you, but I like the new GNR, I like their members and their image - so I'm happy to keep supporting them
But I completely agree that what happened in September 2010 at the 02 was a disgrace and shouldn't have been stood for. Yet, Ireland seemed to let MCD get away with their actions, as opposed to making sure everyone get refunded (because we know some people did, but MCD managed to - yet again - keep that quiet, didn't they?)

That's fair enough. I have Chinese Democracy, and, save for a couple of tracks, it's an overblown, over-produced pile of ****(just my opinion). Not worth the millions spent on it, or the years it took to complete.

RonMexico · 06-01-2012 4:12pm

Slightly off topic but have you guys heard that Velvet Revolver are reuniting for a "one-off" show this month, some sort of fundraiser.

Hope it goes well and they decide to go back on the road down the line. Saw them in Denver in 2005 and they were absolutely brilliant. Insane gig.

Motley Crue · 06-01-2012 5:35pm

RonMexico wrote: »

Slightly off topic but have you guys heard that Velvet Revolver are reuniting for a "one-off" show this month, some sort of fundraiser.

Hope it goes well and they decide to go back on the road down the line. Saw them in Denver in 2005 and they were absolutely brilliant. Insane gig.

I saw them as well, in Dublin in 2005 and then again in 2008 over 2 nights in the Ambassador, the atmosphere at the latter concerts was the most insane I'd ever seen. You could see the break up coming from a mile off. I'm surprised they agreed to play those gigs tbh

Yes, great band, of course...their live performances were incredible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow4GICRSQOE

Mental Mickey · 06-01-2012 5:38pm

Motley Crue wrote: »

I saw them as well, in Dublin in 2005 and then again in 2008 over 2 nights in the Ambassador, the atmosphere at the latter concerts was the most insane I'd ever seen. You could see the break up coming from a mile off. I'm surprised they agreed to play those gigs tbh

Yes, great band, of course...their live performances were incredible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow4GICRSQOE

I was at one of the Ambassador gigs too. Thought it was s***e. And yeah, apparently, they already had decided to part ways with Weiland after the first show on that UK tour(they had a blazing row onstage in Wales). Went to the gig in 2005. F***ing mental gig, that was.

rednik · 12-01-2012 6:34pm

Ashba talks new music!

http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/news/guns-n-roses-guitarist-has-12-new-songs-written-for-new-album-world-shrugs/#more-35499

Mental Mickey · 13-01-2012 10:14am

rednik wrote: »

Ashba talks new music!

http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/news/guns-n-roses-guitarist-has-12-new-songs-written-for-new-album-world-shrugs/#more-35499

Deep breath..............................................................................oh, f**k that, I'm not gonna waste energy on that f**ker.

Motley Crue · 13-01-2012 10:35am

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Deep breath..............................................................................oh, f**k that, I'm not gonna waste energy on that f**ker.

If you're waiting for Chinese Democracy I wouldn't hold your breath

I would try waiting for God instead, I hear the pay off is greater

Mental Mickey · 13-01-2012 10:46am

Motley Crue wrote: »

If you're waiting for Chinese Democracy I wouldn't hold your breath

I would try waiting for God instead, I hear the pay off is greater

Um Chinese Democracy is already out, and it's s**t.

Lemmy Scott · 13-01-2012 12:05pm

The music scene has gone pathetic- the only good metal bads around are the established hierarchy.
When was the last time a good new rock n roll band appeared?

Motley Crue · 13-01-2012 12:40pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Um Chinese Democracy is already out, and it's s**t.

First of all, Chinese Democracy is not ****, it's a pretty decent album

Second, that was a quote from Axl to a US Journalist in 2002 when he was asked about the album. I was using it for comedic purposes, but if I have to explain the joke, I guess the point was lost. It would surprise you how approachable Axl can be, check this rarely seen interview out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWYklGVFFpg

And this one....from the VMAs backstage....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-FoXa5HqNc

Lemmy Scott wrote: »

The music scene has gone pathetic- the only good metal bads around are the established hierarchy. When was the last time a good new rock n roll band appeared?

These guys are pretty good for me....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PakoE1eBps

Mental Mickey · 13-01-2012 12:46pm

Motley Crue wrote: »

First of all, Chinese Democracy is not ****, it's a pretty decent album
Second, that was a quote from Axl to a US Journalist in 2002 when he was asked about the album. I was using it for comedic purposes, but if I have to explain the joke, I guess the point was lost. It would surprise you how approachable Axl can be, check this rarely seen interview out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWYklGVFFpg

And this one....from the VMAs backstage....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-FoXa5HqNc

These guys are pretty good for me....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PakoE1eBps

That's a matter of opinion. And in mine, Chinese Democracy is s**t - apart from a couple of tracks.

Motley Crue · 13-01-2012 12:49pm

And now something for a bit of comedy from a period of GNR that makes me sick to my stomach

GNR on their 2002 North American tour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhne3YwVpr8

Watch for the moment in that video where Dizzy Reed says they have their perfect line up. Fast forward 10 years and they've changed 3 members, but at least DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot are talented.

And a little about Buckethead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0BWMxPcb98

Motley Crue · 13-01-2012 12:55pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

That's a matter of opinion. And in mine, Chinese Democracy is s**t - apart from a couple of tracks.

Matter of opinion or not, albums don't usually sell in excess of 1 Million units in the US alone, spend months in the charts and top the European Hit 100 without doing something right. All that and the album had virtually no publicity, no live dates, no interviews, no promotion and very little airplay.

Mental Mickey · 13-01-2012 1:27pm

Motley Crue wrote: »

Matter of opinion or not, albums don't usually sell in excess of 1 Million units in the US alone, spend months in the charts and top the European Hit 100 without doing something right. All that and the album had virtually no publicity, no live dates, no interviews, no promotion and very little airplay.

Eh I think you'll find the name Guns N'Roses has something to do with it....? Still a s**t album.

gammon_steak · 13-01-2012 1:50pm

Alright Mickey we get it. You hate all things new GNR. In fact we're all well aware of your opinion at this stage :rolleyes:

Motley Crue · 13-01-2012 4:31pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Eh I think you'll find the name Guns N'Roses has something to do with it....? Still a s**t album.

I get the feeling no matter what I say to come back at you regarding that comment you won't stop or back down until I admit Axl Rose is nothing short of the anti-christ

gammon_steak wrote: »

Alright Mickey we get it. You hate all things new GNR. In fact we're all well aware of your opinion at this stage :rolleyes:

I think it's more of a bile than a hatred

Mental Mickey · 13-01-2012 5:01pm

Meh.

RonMexico · 13-01-2012 5:52pm

The no publicity thing is not valid. It was the most anticipated album, certainly the most infamous album, long before it was released. You'd want to be living under a rock not to have known it was out.

It just didn't live up to expectations and was not the album that people were expecting. It was all over the place and disjointed, lacking Axl's trademark vocals & the epic solos that are the signature GNR sound. It has its moments but they are few and far between.

It is a sad day when Axl Rose sounds better on Sebastian Bach's Angel Down than his own bloody album.

And when people see the name Guns N Roses they want the original band, not the Axl Rose band camp. He'd probably have had more respect and a better critical reception had he just been honest and move on without the baggage of the GNR name.

rednik · 13-01-2012 7:12pm

Chinese Democracy has split fans down the middle. My opinion is it is a good album. The wait was ridiculous and did not help it on release. Fans going to gigs in the US have given this line up the thumbs up and only for the drunken dickheads at the 02 I would imagine the fans here would have done the same.

The present line up are a damn good band and if they do return I will be there and hopefully they can get through a show without any repeat of the previous trouble. I look forward to new material and I feel Ashba can give Axl some good ideas.

Mental Mickey · 13-01-2012 9:38pm

RonMexico wrote: »

The no publicity thing is not valid. It was the most anticipated album, certainly the most infamous album, long before it was released. You'd want to be living under a rock not to have known it was out.

It just didn't live up to expectations and was not the album that people were expecting. It was all over the place and disjointed, lacking Axl's trademark vocals & the epic solos that are the signature GNR sound. It has its moments but they are few and far between.

It is a sad day when Axl Rose sounds better on Sebastian Bach's Angel Down than his own bloody album.

And when people see the name Guns N Roses they want the original band, not the Axl Rose band camp. He'd probably have had more respect and a better critical reception had he just been honest and move on without the baggage of the GNR name.

This. 1000 times this.

RayCon · 13-01-2012 10:23pm

RonMexico wrote: »

It was the most anticipated album, certainly the most infamous album, long before it was released.

This is true .. consider it a couple of decades of anicipation, and 15 million quids worth of combined production and advertising costs resulting in a couple of million albums sales ... a pretty piss poor return, which ironically mirrors the content of the album. Whodda figured ?:pac:

RonMexico · 13-01-2012 11:42pm

Not Best Buy anyway, that's for sure. Technically the record company made their money back thanks to the best buy exclusive deal + the modest album sales. Best Buy got burned though, the album is now available for $1.99 in the bargain bin in their stores.

Motley Crue · 14-01-2012 12:12pm

RonMexico wrote: »

The no publicity thing is not valid. It was the most anticipated album, certainly the most infamous album, long before it was released. You'd want to be living under a rock not to have known it was out.

OK, granted, but the lack of promotional tours directly before or after the albums release and the lack of music videos featuring ANY of the new line up or ANY of the new songs AND the complete lack of interviews or promotional spots given to the album upon release would have detracted those who simply downloaded the album illegally, or obtained it through a friend, or whatever means you like that meant they just didn't pay for the bloody thing.

Plus it streamed on MySpace and YouTube, in full, before it was released so anyone who purchased the album and then complained it was **** has only themselves to blame.

And, at that, I don't believe that many people would have purchased the album in error or without knowing more than a few songs. So those sales figures stand, and one million people (at least) bought this album in the US. So even with illegal downloads it still sold well against its contemporaries.

I'm gonna stick on Madagascar right now I think.

RonMexico wrote: »

It just didn't live up to expectations and was not the album that people were expecting. It was all over the place and disjointed, lacking Axl's trademark vocals & the epic solos that are the signature GNR sound. It has its moments but they are few and far between.

There were expectations for this album, granted, but people should have known that this was a completely new band with completely new members. Hell, people should have been fully aware that Slash and Duff had left, and anybody who knows anything about music knows that when a band looses principal songwriting partners/musicians there is going to be a change in musical direction whether you want it or not.

The very Punk nature attitude of GNR was fueled, to a large extent, by Duff McKagan. When he left the band that was going to change. Even when Axl Rose changed the tempo of Knocking On Heaven's Door live in 2001 people should have realized that, yes, this means he is probably going to alter sounds and release different musical opinion.

Look at the track My World from Use Your Illusion 2, composed completely by Axl - with some left over drum tracks from Matt - all the band members at the time said they hadn't a clue that song existed until the album came out. But it kind of sounds like it could be a future idea or demo for Shackler's or Rhiad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhQ6CyGb4VU

In January 1994 on a US interview on Rockline Axl Rose told the host (and a stunned Slash) that he was working on a secret solo project. This project was what happened to some of the earliest ideas for Chinese Democracy. Axl Rose is business minded, he knew full well that he would never be taken seriously without the GNR name, that he wouldn't get half as much attention without that name. That's the only reason he kept it, not to piss on the past, but to use it as a marketing tool to sell albums - I don't agree it with his methods, but I like his musical results, personally

I agree with you, it's not Guns N' Roses, not how I see it and it in no way represents the band that played Slane in 1992. But for a lot of people (younger people, mostly Americans) its the only GNR they know and they only one they want at the moment.

The HOF thing is not going to happen as people expect, a reunion tour might happen (within the next 5 years if all the principal members are still alive and enough money is in the pot) but, for now, Guns N Roses is just another band fronted by the same man who fronted the last band called that.

RonMexico · 14-01-2012 5:32pm

I will say that despite my thinking that Axl is a complete and utter gob****e for so many different reasons, he is still my favourite frontman in this thoroughly boring age of rock n roll and I just hope that one day he can stun the music world again for all of the right reasons - be it one killer song or another great album.

I'd even settle for a one off reunion gig with the old band at this stage.

Mental Mickey · 14-01-2012 7:19pm

RonMexico wrote: »

I will say that despite my thinking that Axl is a complete and utter gob****e for so many different reasons, he is still my favourite frontman in this thoroughly boring age of rock n roll and I just hope that one day he can stun the music world again for all of the right reasons - be it one killer song or another great album.

I'd even settle for a one off reunion gig with the old band at this stage.

Won't happen. Too much water'/bull****(whatever you call it)has gone under the bridge for that to happen. Axl has f****d over too many people.

PTH2009 · 14-01-2012 7:43pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Won't happen. Too much water'/bull****(whatever you call it)has gone under the bridge for that to happen. Axl has f****d over too many people.

why cant they just have seperate dressing rooms eg like the eagles do. its like a big soap oprea

Mental Mickey · 14-01-2012 7:53pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

why cant they just have seperate dressing rooms eg like the eagles do. its like a big soap oprea

lol

Motley Crue · 14-01-2012 9:00pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Won't happen. Too much water'/bull****(whatever you call it)has gone under the bridge for that to happen. Axl has f****d over too many people.

Trust me, if Pink Floyd can/could reunite for the right reasons, Guns N Roses could do the same....

And, unlike what you said about Jason Newsted in another thread, I wouldn't bet your house on it not happening

RonMexico · 14-01-2012 9:34pm

I wouldn't rule it out completely either. Axl is a funny fish. Everyone was surprised a few years ago when Matt Sorum ran into him in New York and they ended up having a good time with Axl even driving Matt back to wherever he was staying. Those two were never close and both talked a lot of **** about each other in the past.

I think Axl vents a lot but it is amazing what a personal face to face meeting can do. See how he also mended the bridge with Duff recently.

It all boils down to Axl and Slash. I've noticed both have softened the rhetoric in the press about each other recently. This coming after Axl called Slash "a cancer". We all know that Axl has read Slash's book, maybe after reading that (no doubt Duffs and Adlers too) he has thought about things from a different perspective. I think the RNRHOF ceremony should answer a lot of questions.

Mental Mickey · 14-01-2012 11:32pm

RonMexico wrote: »

I wouldn't rule it out completely either. Axl is a funny fish. Everyone was surprised a few years ago when Matt Sorum ran into him in New York and they ended up having a good time with Axl even driving Matt back to wherever he was staying. Those two were never close and both talked a lot of **** about each other in the past.

I think Axl vents a lot but it is amazing what a personal face to face meeting can do. See how he also mended the bridge with Duff recently.

It all boils down to Axl and Slash. I've noticed both have softened the rhetoric in the press about each other recently. This coming after Axl called Slash "a cancer". We all know that Axl has read Slash's book, maybe after reading that (no doubt Duffs and Adlers too) he has thought about things from a different perspective. I think the RNRHOF ceremony should answer a lot of questions.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it, but with all the bad blood between Axl & Slash in particular, I just can't see it happening.

Motley Crue · 15-01-2012 2:34pm

This made me laugh, but was verified as completely true

A source tells PEOPLE that Guns N' Roses frontman Axl Rose has been serving jury duty on a civil trial in Santa Monica, Calif.

The rocker's rep confirms that Rose, 49, indeed has been performing his civic duty – having completed jury duty service on Tuesday "after serving four days of the trial process," says his rep.

"It was relatively painless," says Rose, who just completed a U.S. tour with his band last month. "I was fortunate that everyone in the courthouse and jurors were all really great, plus I got to see daylight from a different prospect."

So, you can imagine among many other things feeling pressured by your impending trial, only to find out Axl Rose was on the jury! I can't believe he agreed to this, you'd imagine he'd find a way to get out of it, but it will certainly give him good press.

RonMexico · 15-01-2012 4:03pm

That must have been so weird for the people involved

Het-Field · 15-01-2012 4:31pm

This thread has got me thinking about the possibility of a GNR reunion. Although my conclusion, and the reasons behind my conclusion may be somewhat trite, I think it gives rise to a possibility of a reunion.

First, the current GNR lineup has more than one member of the former incarnation, and that is Dizzy Reed (from the Use Your Illusion era at least). Second, the current incarnation has recieved guest appearences by Izzy Stradlin (2006) and Duff McCagen (2010). Third, another poster has mentioned an amicable meeting between Matt Sorum and Rose. Fourth, Velvet Revolver demonstrates that good blood exists between a number of these individuals and Slash. The only difficulty would appear to be the burnt bridges between Axl and Slash.

What this suggests is that a GNR re-union (in the form of the Use Your Illusion band) is possible, but it would take some reconciliation between two individuals who have been engaged in one of the most notorious rock and roll feuds ever. It will take a lot to achieve, but I dont believe it is out of the question.

ozzy jr · 16-01-2012 1:11am

Motley Crue wrote: »

This made me laugh, but was verified as completely true

So, you can imagine among many other things feeling pressured by your impending trial, only to find out Axl Rose was on the jury! I can't believe he agreed to this, you'd imagine he'd find a way to get out of it, but it will certainly give him good press.

I would have thought he'd be disqualified from Jury Service, having had a previous criminal record?

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