The Tiger Woods Thread

First Up · 02-02-2015 12:44pm

Domo1982 wrote: »

And you blame Tiger for this also?

As I said in my original post, he drew an audience that included people not previously attracted to golf. That was good for the broadcasters and advertisers but resulted in a decline in standards of behaviour at events.

Any discussion on this topic - especially in the US - will include those saying things like "Tiger IS golf" and that they have no interest in any other players or the game in general. They root for Tiger, the heckle those playing well enough to threaten his chances of winning and do anything else (including "improving" his lies) that they can. The incident I observed was not unique but the topic is simply taboo in media circles.

I don't know if you call that "blaming" him, but it is impossible to disassociate him from such things. When he stops playing, those "fans" will go away and I'll be happy for that.

TrapperChamonix · 02-02-2015 5:41pm

First Up wrote: »

I know its a cliche but nobody should be bigger than the game and aspects of Woods ' career have crossed that line. It wasn't all his fault - America loves a winner and the media and corporate sponsors saw that he could bring a non golf audience to the market. They didn't care if that meant hostility to other players and a general decline in in spectator behaviour. Yes, I know the same was said of Arnies Army but there really isn't any comparison.

His achievements speak for themselves but too many things leave a bad taste. He didn't like Westchester Country Club (too tight) so he forced Buick to move their event to a course he preferred; getting spectators to move a boulder in Phoenix (how nicely ironic that it was the scene of his humiliation yesterday); losing a ball into the work sheds and getting a free drop because someone said they saw a course worker (who was never found) put a ball in his pocket; watching his entourage march through venues like they owned it; the way media were told that anything other than complete sycophancy would result in a ban. And one I personally witnessed when an errant ball was kicked back into play and those who objected were threatened with violence.

Yes he has done great things, expanded the game and made a lot of other players a lot richer. But I won't miss him when he's done.

You missed from your list, spitting in the cup (Sergio as well?). Phenomenal player but the game will move on an find new hero's.

Never a fan but funnily enough since his slump, I've warmed to him more. It's not that I'm glad to see him play badly but in his failures he has shown more personality that in all his triumphs. Perhaps because he can't bully (perhaps dominate is a better word) the press conferences any more.
I did like his Marshawn Lynch quote in the press conference after the 82.

First Up · 02-02-2015 5:45pm

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

You missed from your list, spitting in the cup (Sergio as well?). Phenomenal player but the game will move on an find new hero's.

Never a fan but funnily enough since his slump, I've warmed to him more. It's not that I'm glad to see him play badly but in his failures he has shown more personality that in all his triumphs. Perhaps because he can't bully (perhaps dominate is a better word) the press conferences any more.
I did like his Marshawn Lynch quote in the press conference after the 84.

It was 82. Don't exaggerate.

Bandana boy · 02-02-2015 6:09pm

He is still inspiring me ,I hope to shoot an 82 someday !

valoren · 02-02-2015 6:15pm

When I saw Woods play recently, I was reminded of that phrase from Hamlet;

For tis the sport to haue the enginer / Hoist with his owne petar.

Essentially, Tiger is now a victim of his own success. The success of his impact on the game worldwide, his impact of the importance of athleticism in the game but also the success of his commercialisation of the game.

Ideally, Tiger should travel the world for a year or two, disappear, recuperate and allow himself to heal fully. His fitness standards were the benchmark for the young players he inspired to which those same player's, younger, hungrier now surpass.

He's been the face of the game for almost 20 years now. His paymasters at Nike et al will demand their pound of flesh.

So he will have to be rushed back to the spotlight. Ill prepared.

And we will all have to witness a player with a rusty swing and a battered ageing body go through the indignity of joint last place finishes and being #56 in the World rankings.

TheDoc · 03-02-2015 3:59pm

davo10 wrote: »

So Tiger posted the worst 36 hole score of his career to follow on from the horror showing that was his Hero event before Chistmas. The US papers say it is a sad sight to see the great man/golfer reduced to playing like a 12 handicapper.

I'm conflicted because on the one hand, I'd like to see him go head-to-head with Rory, I think he brought golf to a new and thrilling level, viewing is less exciting when he's not in contention, I'm not sure that the young players like Reed/Speith/fowler can "step up" yet. But on the other hand I think he's a surly, bad mannered, self indulgent creep and I would hate to see him break Jack's record.

While I get where your coming from, and my god do I hold grudges against footballers doing well because of my perception of their characteristics, I feel nothing but sadness watching Tiger slowly demise.

I think it's a given how he invigorated a sport that was on the fray a little, and put life and enthusiasm into a game that was (and perhaps still is) niche and particular.

But besides his overall impact on the game, he was incredible to watch at his peak. His aggression, his swing, his shortgame, it was a joy to behold. I'm not old enough to have watched the all time greats, but nothing has come close for me to Tiger in his peak. Event after event being favourite and mounting charges on Sunday's made golf thrilling to watch.

I guess what I'm seeing is like what my Dad always describes watching Seve finishing up. Really distressing to see and you just wish either they'd get back to being their best, or just finish up once and for all.

Irregardless of him breaking Nicklaus record, he helped get golf back into the mainstream, and is responsible for the mountains of money, talent, technology improvements etc. He'll always be remembered in the right way.

Every sport now and then needs someone to dominate it, because it creates the " can't wait till they fall" metric. Federar in Tennis, United in English football, Taylor in Darts, Woods in Golf, Schumacher in F1. While the lazy assumption is that it makes it boring with the same person winning over and over, what people forget is the work being done in the background by competitors to get better and better and the investment in the game itself. Not to mention the inspiration to the next generation, and how they will know what's required to get to that level and stay there.

HighLine · 03-02-2015 10:07pm

Woods spends Tuesday in Vail watching Vonn race

This just doesn't make sense. Would a young Tiger Woods not have blisters on his hands from spending 12 hours a day on the practice ground trying to solve his chipping yips. Old Tiger is off watching Lindsey...again.

LinksLad · 06-02-2015 12:09am

If anyone is conflicted about Tiger Woods....

Just ask yourself a simple question.

Which do you prefer?

Tiger Woods, or Golf?

vienne86 · 06-02-2015 12:44am

Anyone hear his interview after his withdrawal there on Sky? What was he on about......'couldn't activate the glutes'.....what in the name of goodness does that mean????

Potential Underachiever · 06-02-2015 12:46am

Did he try turning them off then on again?

PARlance · 06-02-2015 1:05am

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Did he try turning them off then on again?

"Reboot the glute" is the techinical term I believe.

AndonHandon · 06-02-2015 1:22am

The physical demands of the sport are taking their toll on Tiger. Tiger was the first super athlete in the game and it is sad to see him burn out like this. But how many people do we know personally who have had hip and back problems from playing the sport? Like the recent retirees in rugby who were the first to play entire careers in the professional era, I predict many future chronic problems as a result of bowing down to the physical demands of the sport.

lostatsea · 06-02-2015 2:31am

It is very sad to watch Tiger trying to make a comeback. It is just over a year that he was No. 1 - winning tournaments but falling short in Majors. Now it seems anything will do - how about just making the cut. It is sad to watch one of the greatest golfers ever look like an old man of the course even before he has reached 40! Nicklaus won the Masters at 46 - Tiger is light years from such a feat. Most golfing fans would love to see some hope for the man but alas it appears futile.

FixdePitchmark · 06-02-2015 2:58am

I don't want to get too Freudian.

But, we seen something from Tiger tonight that gave us more of an insight into him, than we have ever seen. I'm watching him, what - 20 years.

It is to be admired - as it made him who he is. It made him win so much - almost another level.

Seeing another pro pick up a tee is, well we all know. A low moment. The other pro was class on the day , was it Billy Horshel - I think Tiger was almost , go away. But fair play Billy a guy that is not easy to warm to.

I know something about every other sports guy I'm watching as long as Tiger.
But, with Tiger -Nobody knows anything - even the golf pros there do not seem to be playing with him. Watch other pros having fun with groups they are in.

It is awful and fascinating to watch.
He was a manufactured Golf Pro by his father. He never had a real life.
He was always trying to prove himself. He did - but it never seemed enough. Then - when there is a gap to the person you seek approval too - what happens ?

I love him as a golfer.

But would have liked him to be more balanced.

I was thinking the other day - a sport guy at that level - I've been watching him so long.
I asked myself a question - Who is Tiger's friend ?
Couldn't Answer it.

I admire that about Rory. He "seems" to have a bit more in life.

Would love to see Tiger back - but don't think the body can do anything, you try push it to.

Boskowski · 06-02-2015 8:45am

2015 may be the year when Tiger calls it a day. I'd say if the masters end in a disaster or WD he may be done with it.

califano · 06-02-2015 8:48am

Tiger has lost the hunger is the real problem.

stitcheddepin · 06-02-2015 9:15am

I wouldn't say he has lost the hunger, he is a born winner. he will struggle to get anywhere near the playing level of todays pros now that he is not fully fit. I cant see him competing for a win again. 10-15 years down the line I fear the same injury for Mcilroy with his swing and hip rotation.

slave1 · 06-02-2015 9:49am

Very sad to see and see him hounded in the parking lot too, that was neither the time nor the place, guy needs space and respect and getting neither. He has chosen to separate himself on a professional level, that's what works for him, and without playing the race card you can see from early interviews he had a VERY tough time in his teens in how he was treated and insulted on courses (that he managed to get onto) and treatment like that can have long term emotional impact.
He has friends but non professional, I went diving in Florida a few years back and the chat with our captain on the boat got around to weather and perfect year around for golf and the guy tells me he trained Tiger for deep dives and spent a lot of time with him, gentleman was his opinion, polite, quiet and respectful, never once mentioned golf so your man never brought it up, said he loves diving and Tiger said it was because he felt free underwater with no one eyeing him and the sense of freedom it gave him, we're talking rebreather deep dives so 2hrs plus I'd imagine so plenty of time to "escape".

Tiger will return, he will adapt or whatever is required to compensate for damage done to date, he will win tournaments again and that will include a major.
Keep the faith!

death1234567 · 06-02-2015 10:00am

slave1 wrote: »

Tiger will return, he will adapt or whatever is required to compensate for damage done to date, he will win tournaments again and that will include a major.

He won't return. He's done for at the top level. His body is broken and because of that he keeps trying to invent a new swing that will help him over come it but that' not possible. It's sad to see but hopefully he can go out with some grace and not be a David Duval.

Trampas · 06-02-2015 10:00am

Swing looks terrible. Still coming across it too much.
The sooner he gets back to a draw the better.
Chris won't last until summer.

He's not young man anymore and needs to remember that.

vienne86 · 06-02-2015 10:08am

I fear for Tiger, I really do. He just seems broken.

And I fear for him as a man, not just as a golfer. FDP just put it very well a few posts back......what on earth is he going to do with his life?

newport2 · 06-02-2015 10:09am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Seeing another pro pick up a tee is, well we all know. A low moment. The other pro was class on the day , was it Billy Horshel - I think Tiger was almost , go away. But fair play Billy a guy that is not easy to warm to.

I didn't warm to Horshel immediately, but he grew on me last year. Exciting player to watch. He topped it off by the class he showed in having won the final tournaments of the year, including the Fed-Ex cup and not getting picked for the Ryder Cup (wild cards were chosen earlier than they should have been). For a guy who is obviously patriotic he handled the media really well.
“I’m sure Tom Watson isn’t kicking himself for not picking me,” he said. “I’m sure he wants to kick me for not playing well sooner”

newport2 · 06-02-2015 10:14am

What possessed him to keep going yesterday? It was hurting him from the 3rd. Surely the first signs of anything wrong with your back should scream "STOP PLAYING!" inside his head? With his history he needs to take care of it. Continuing to play when your back is out is crazy for anyone playing golf, let alone a pro.

vienne86 · 06-02-2015 10:30am

PARlance wrote: »

"Reboot the glute" is the techinical term I believe.

What does it mean????

newport2 · 06-02-2015 10:55am

vienne86 wrote: »

What does it mean????

His gluteus maximus muscles were frozen up, he needed them to kick in to swing properly - "Reboot the glute"

First Up · 06-02-2015 11:20am

The TV coverage after he withdrew last night was farcical. It was bad enough that they talked about practically nothing else for the previous hour and a half, when he quit there was no golf coverage at all for about 20 minutes. We had close ups of him being driven back in the buggy, loading the car and driving off. We even had someone broadcasting while standing in his empty parking space.

You wouldn't be surprised if flags were lowered to half mast and players issued with black ribbons.

I know money is the name of the game and the broadcasters and advertisers wanted to squeeze the last drop of ratings out of it, before they suffer their usual 20% drop when he's not there. But it is stuff like that that has turned me off him and personally I can't wait until he gets permanently out of the way and golf can resume.

valoren · 06-02-2015 11:21am

Tiger has never done anything half-assed

TrapperChamonix · 06-02-2015 11:39am

First Up wrote: »

The TV coverage after he withdrew last night was farcical. It was bad enough that they talked about practically nothing else for the previous hour and a half, when he quit there was no golf coverage at all for about 20 minutes. We had close ups of him being driven back in the buggy, loading the car and driving off. We even had someone broadcasting while standing in his empty parking space.

You wouldn't be surprised if flags were lowered to half mast and players issued with black ribbons.

I know money is the name of the game and the broadcasters and advertisers wanted to squeeze the last drop of ratings out of it, before they suffer their usual 20% drop when he's not there. But it is stuff like that that has turned me off him and personally I can't wait until he gets permanently out of the way and golf can resume.

I remember one tournament where they kept going back to a camera view of his empty parking space in anticipation of whether or not he would or wouldn't play.
There is a certain element of Catch 22 involved in the coverage. The more they fixate solely on Tiger when he is their, the more they suffer the effect when he is not.
I understand and agree with your frustration but we can hardly blame Tiger himself.

First Up · 06-02-2015 11:42am

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

I remember one tournament where they kept going back to a camera view of his empty parking space in anticipation of whether or not he would or wouldn't play.
There is a certain element of Catch 22 involved in the coverage. The more they fixate solely on Tiger when he is their, the more they suffer the effect when he is not.
I understand and agree with your frustration but we can hardly blame Tiger himself.

Not saying we should but without him the Tiger industry disappears and golf will ultimately be the better for it.

TrapperChamonix · 06-02-2015 11:57am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I don't want to get too Freudian.

But, we seen something from Tiger tonight that gave us more of an insight into him, than we have ever seen. I'm watching him, what - 20 years.

It is to be admired - as it made him who he is. It made him win so much - almost another level.

Seeing another pro pick up a tee is, well we all know. A low moment. The other pro was class on the day , was it Billy Horshel - I think Tiger was almost , go away. But fair play Billy a guy that is not easy to warm to.

I know something about every other sports guy I'm watching as long as Tiger.
But, with Tiger -Nobody knows anything - even the golf pros there do not seem to be playing with him. Watch other pros having fun with groups they are in.

It is awful and fascinating to watch.
He was a manufactured Golf Pro by his father. He never had a real life.
He was always trying to prove himself. He did - but it never seemed enough. Then - when there is a gap to the person you seek approval too - what happens ?

I love him as a golfer.

But would have liked him to be more balanced.

I was thinking the other day - a sport guy at that level - I've been watching him so long.
I asked myself a question - Who is Tiger's friend ?
Couldn't Answer it.

I admire that about Rory. He "seems" to have a bit more in life.

Would love to see Tiger back - but don't think the body can do anything, you try push it to.

Without really having that much interest in his personal life, even I know that Notah Begay is a long term and also a current friend of Tigers.

Being no 1 on the tour often has no friends in the locker room. Lack of familiarity with the other pros can be seen as a way of maximizing the intimidation factor. Nicklaus and Hogan were respected without being particularly close to anyone on the tour. Nelson as well but probably for his religious convictions. I'm not sure that VJ or Sir Nick had many friends either.

death1234567 · 06-02-2015 12:23pm

newport2 wrote: »

What possessed him to keep going yesterday?

I think he's in denial about his health. He's constantly trying to convince himself he's healthy and powerful when he clearly isn't.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 06-02-2015 12:28pm

I think he put his back through so much strain, that it wasn't going to last forever.

Tiger Mcilroy · 06-02-2015 12:41pm

death1234567 wrote: »

I think he's in denial about his health. He's constantly trying to convince himself he's healthy and powerful when he clearly isn't.

This is it in a nutshell..he is constantly playing injured and his obsession with hitting the ball as hard as possible doesnt help.

personally its frustrating the amount of coverage he gets and his playing up to it by grimacing and holding his back after trying to hit a 4 iron as hard as possible is ott and feeds the us nertworks obsession with him. If its that sore/bad just step away until its fixed.

First Up · 06-02-2015 3:44pm

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

This is it in a nutshell..he is constantly playing injured and his obsession with hitting the ball as hard as possible doesnt help.

personally its frustrating the amount of coverage he gets and his playing up to it by grimacing and holding his back after trying to hit a 4 iron as hard as possible is ott and feeds the us nertworks obsession with him. If its that sore/bad just step away until its fixed.

For sure age has caught up with the stresses he places on his body - that violent swing action was only sustainable under a ferocious physical regime and at 39, he just can't keep doing it.

Mind you he hasn't helped himself with his obsession with military style training. Hank Haney's book has some interesting stories.

Boskowski · 06-02-2015 11:30pm

I read that and if true which I have no reason to doubt it's a bit crazy. It's like he had a midlife crisis at 30.

Old diesel · 07-02-2015 12:06am

With Harrington hitting the rocks massively as well - is this just the inevitable scenario in sport - where the older performers decline - and the newer guys on the block - Shane Lowry, Rory Mc Illroy and co come on the scene to take over.

In other sports - team sports especially - you've constantly got people leaving the scene - and new guys coming in.

The Kilkenny hurling team is an obvious example - DJ went - Henry Shefflin came along - Henry will retire but a new guy will take his place

Dealerz · 09-02-2015 9:39pm

http://www.golfworlddigital.com/gw/02_09_2015/MobilePagedArticle.action?pg=18&pm=1&u1=friend#articles/566053

This journalist is never afraid to have a dig at tiger woods

Keano · 12-02-2015 12:28am

Just released a statement via his website saying he will not be back until he feels his game is tournament ready

Dero123 · 12-02-2015 7:20am

Did he not say before start of Phoenix open that his game was tournament ready. With only eighth weeks to the masters it's hard to see him tee it up there with the state his game is.

slave1 · 12-02-2015 9:37am

Says he's taking "an indefinite break" but follows on to say he could be playing The Honda Classic, which is in two weeks!
I think he needs clarity of mind, sounds like a mid-life golf crisis...
Such a shame to see...

Russman · 12-02-2015 10:23am

Mid life crisis might be the nail on the head alright.
I think he's struggling to adapt to the fact that his body won't always do what he wants it to do anymore, and is finding it hard/impossible to curb his instinct to beat the cover off the ball.
When you see him on the range hitting controlled, smooth shots, it looks like he'd never be in trouble, but when he gets on the course its just a wild slash at the ball. Much like his old buddy Phil !

HighLine · 12-02-2015 10:19pm

Another day grinding it out on the range sorting out the short game.... or perhaps not... http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2015/02/tiger-woods-lindsey-vonn-ski-race-photos.html

Henry Ford III · 30-03-2015 12:11pm

I reckon he's done. Out of the worlds top 100 for the 1st time since 1996.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/tiger-woods-drops-out-of-top-100-for-first-time-since-96-1.2158518

slave1 · 30-03-2015 12:14pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I reckon he's done. Out of the worlds top 100 for the 1st time since 1996.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/tiger-woods-drops-out-of-top-100-for-first-time-since-96-1.2158518

Ranking is 100% irrelevant, I doubt he will receive any restriction imposed by any tournament anywhere if he wants to compete...it all boils down to how long now and if it's six months or more then there will be stigma attached...

Keano · 30-03-2015 12:19pm

If he plays at the Master's which I don't think he will then he will struggle to make the cut. That amount of time without competitive golf will hurt his game and lets face it, it wasn't great when he did try make a comeback

Henry Ford III · 30-03-2015 12:50pm

slave1 wrote: »

Ranking is 100% irrelevant, I doubt he will receive any restriction imposed by any tournament anywhere if he wants to compete...it all boils down to how long now and if it's six months or more then there will be stigma attached...

I think you've put a meaning on my post that wasn't intended.

My point was that Woods has fallen way down the rankings at this point, his body isn't in great nick, his short game is in tatters, & his head is fried.

His last major win was in 2008 and I genuinely think there's no way back from where he is now.

He is and always will be a big draw for spectators, so if he's looking for invites he'll get plenty.

Tilikum · 30-03-2015 1:12pm

I wonder how different things would be had he not hit the pin on the par 5 in 2013.

SaveOurLyric · 30-03-2015 1:18pm

Or not crashed the Escalade, but gotten away ?

HighLine · 30-03-2015 1:21pm

Tilikum wrote: »

I wonder how different things would be had he not hit the pin on the par 5 in 2013.

Often wondered the same. Hits a perfect shot which has birdie written all over it and in the end, ends up 4 shots worse than what would have probably been a 4. After that... it's a case of what could have been..

Loire · 30-03-2015 1:26pm

Whether you love him or hate him, there's no denying the excitement when he's in the hunt on the back 9 in Augusta. Can you imagine himself and Rory going head to head?!

The Tiger Woods Thread

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