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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

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    #2552
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Clearly they didn't follow it to well, considering Episode IX performed worse than the apparently sacrilegious Last Jedi. By quite a margin too. EpVIII ruffled feathers but the story wasn't so irredeemable that a script could have built on its trailing edges. Instead Disney OK'ed a panicked trilogy capper than indulged in pleading nostalgia, via a clumsy brainless script that read like fan fiction.

    I'd say that the 'The Rise of Skywalker' did poorly in a number of ways because of the "sacrilegious" 'The Last Jedi'. People getting "burned" by Johnson's film made them cautious about bothering to go and see Ep. IX. That coupled with the piss poor script for the trilogy finale and lacklustre reviews sealed the deal.

    The whole thing is a disaster really. Junk scripts bashed out and trying to live off of the past glory of films made 40 years ago. Sure, what could possibly go wrong.

    The only saving grace of the sequels (and the prequels) is that you can just delete them from your viewing and have a much more enjoyable and coherent story with 'Rogue One' and the originals, which is a story that makes sense (relatively) on its own merits.

    There's a lot of fingers crossed that Disney have taken the criticism of these wretched sequel films on board and will proceed in a more considered way, instead of just slapping STAR WARS on some duff output and hoping that it will greeted with open arms. They've seen that it won't. So it might not all have been a complete waste of time.

    If they're wise, they'll understand that the way forward is contained in 'Rogue One' and 'The Mandalorian', both of which have appealed most to the vast majority of the audience, fan and non-fan.


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    #2553
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    ErnestBorgnine wrote: »
    You're the only person who said they did that, so start where you want i guess.

    The course correction of ROS and the cancelling of Rian's trilogy would suggest they realise they made a big mistake.

    His first Star Wars film is coming 2022. They announced their slate just the other day. If you haven’t seen knives out it’s well worth a watch. Guy can write a great story.


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    #2554
    Falthyron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    Runaways wrote: »
    His first Star Wars film is coming 2022. They announced their slate just the other day. If you haven’t seen knives out it’s well worth a watch. Guy can write a great story.

    I'll believe it when we see a shot of Rian on the first day of filming. Otherwise, it isn't happening. Too much baggage given the response to TLJ. LucasFilm will need a clean break from everything that was associated with the sequel trilogy. Start fresh (preferably small too), and do something akin to Joker's production.


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    #2555
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    Total flop and a financial loss for Disney
    Runaways wrote: »
    His first Star Wars film is coming 2022. They announced their slate just the other day. If you haven’t seen knives out it’s well worth a watch. Guy can write a great story.

    Not a hope will they give Rian another star wars movie, no chance!


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    #2556
    Relikk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Relikk


    Theboinkmaster wrote: »
    Not a hope will they give Rian another star wars movie, no chance!

    As long as it's entirely original and he's kept away from anything that has already been established in another form, so he can't shit all over it and piss people off, I'd be interested in seeing what he has to offer.


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    #2557
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens
    Relikk wrote: »
    As long as it's entirely original and he's kept away from anything that has already been established in another form, so he can't shit all over it and piss people off, I'd be interested in seeing what he has to offer.
    As long as it doesn't focus on an overlong space chase I'd be interested.


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    #2558
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    'Knives Out' has proven that, given the right material, Johnson can deliver. I just don't believe that he was (ever) a good choice to direct a Star Wars film. If he gets another shot, I'll be amazed, given the schism that 'The Last Jedi' thrust upon audiences.

    That being said and now that the trilogy is finished, it's probably fair to say that his effort was, at least, the most interesting. But given the two entries either side of it that's not really saying much at all.


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    #2559
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens
    My feelings about The Last Jedi were sufficiently mixed that I didn't bother go see The Rise of Skywalker or Knives Out, but I'd probably give Johnson the benefit of the doubt with another movie if he wasn't straight-jacketed by other people's narrative choices. He's on borrowed time with me though - there's only so much good will left from Brick and The Brothers Bloom. Sounds like Knives Out might restore some good will at least.


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    #2560
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Knives Out is excellent. Can't be put simpler than that. Last Jedi is a studio blockbuster, no directors CV should be blotted entirely by one film, let alone a Disney franchise.


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    #2561
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,108 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Last Jedi is a studio blockbuster, no directors CV should be blotted entirely by one film, let alone a Disney franchise.

    He's still 5 for 5 for me easily, more if you count his stellar Breaking Bad episodes and the like. Having had the pleasure of attending a public interview with him last year, he's also one of the most down-to-earth, friendliest and articulate filmmakers about. That he still speaks so glowingly of Star Wars fans and his experience with TLJ despite the **** thrown his way (and seriously, he is absolutely gushingly appreciative of the opportunity and experience) is IMO a testament to his character :)

    Still keen to see what he'd do with a fresh SW film/trilogy, but given Knives Out is far superior to any non-TLJ film in this particular franchise, I'm sure he'll be just fine regardless.


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    #2562
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    He's 5 for 5 with me as well, but it's fair to say that Last Jedi has been controversial and would be his most debatable work to date. Still wish he left most of the comedy behind. Except the iron gag, that was perfect.


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    #2563
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    Total flop and a financial loss for Disney
    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    He's still 5 for 5 for me easily, more if you count his stellar Breaking Bad episodes and the like. Having had the pleasure of attending a public interview with him last year, he's also one of the most down-to-earth, friendliest and articulate filmmakers about. That he still speaks so glowingly of Star Wars fans and his experience with TLJ despite the **** thrown his way (and seriously, he is absolutely gushingly appreciative of the opportunity and experience) is IMO a testament to his character :)

    Still keen to see what he'd do with a fresh SW film/trilogy, but given Knives Out is far superior to any non-TLJ film in this particular franchise, I'm sure he'll be just fine regardless.

    I'd agree with all of that however knowing the corporate machine that is Disney I think there is zero chance he'll ever be given a star wars film ever again.

    The numbers and risk v reward just don't add up.

    He's a lovely guy and great filmmaker but won't be doing star wars again for sure.


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    #2564
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    The moaning on the internet will have almost no impact on the success or not of any Rian Johnson Star Wars film.

    Most people won't even know who he is, or be aware that he directed a previous film in the franchise.

    If they do, they probably won't have a strong enough opinion about it for it to influence whether or not they go see a new trilogy by him.

    A tiny fraction of a fraction of people who watch these films engage on a level where they debate the merits of the films on message boards. It's only really among those die hards that there's a particularly significant split.


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    #2565
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,668 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Johnson is too big a risk? Compared to who? After the disastrous productions of Rogue One and Solo and the fairly troubled productions of TFA and TROS, Johnson is probably the safest pair of hands to helm a SW film that there is. If Johnson and Disney part ways I think it will be because Johnson decides he wants out.


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    #2566
    Relikk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Relikk


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    Johnson is too big a risk?

    Certainly risky from an audience perspective. VIII may have made a lot of money, but it's the most divisive Star Wars movie that turned a lot of people off the franchise, which is evident when you look at the drop-off that followed with Solo and IX. Especially IX, where Abrams was allowed to forget VIII existed by giving some of Johnson's choices a middle finger salute to appease fans that despised them.


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    #2567
    Wedwood
    Registered Users Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Wedwood


    Star Wars has gone from being a self contained Trilogy to being an ongoing movie franchise, so it’s inevitable the quality is going to vary, as happens with every long running movie series.

    It’ll take a few years for the sequel trilogy to settle into its place, people’s views on movies change over the years. Blade Runner flopped on release, it was another 10 years before it became a cult classic, them another 10 when it became a mainstream masterpiece.

    Other movies like the Lord of the Rings trilogy were huge at the time and winning big at the Oscars, but 10 years later could be described as semi forgotten in comparison to say the Star Wars prequels, which people generally agreed were inferior to Jackson’s Middle Earth trilogy.

    At least the sequel trilogy didn’t really create a new Jar Jar Binks to haunt the movies for years to come and the main actors generally gave decent performances, unlike the wooden performances that also have haunted the prequels.


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    #2568
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,291 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Anyone else think Fin was in this movie for token sake. If I were him I'd be embarrassed for myself as an actor to be in a movie but not really in it at all. Did he ever even have more than one sentence to say at a time, and even those were rare.


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    #2569
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Token, no. More that he was a good once off character dragged back cos of contracts and charisma, but then given nothing to do. Lots of that with the cast really; strip Rey and Kylo out - and Poe from Last Jedi - and 99% of the cast had no defining paths. Wasn't specific to Finn but he at least started with an arc, and a good one at that. Stormtrooper changes sides, great. Probably just symptomatic of the whole trilogy being relatively ad hoc.


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    #2570
    Wedwood
    Registered Users Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Wedwood


    Watched this again tonight for first time since cinema, enjoyed it better second time around. Took the second watch to catch some of the plot points missed first time.

    Does it all hold together as a nine movie saga? I’d say it’s similar to a movie like How the West was Won, which is comprised of several different self contained stories in separate eras, leading to an eventual conclusion/resolution.


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    #2571
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    Total flop and a financial loss for Disney
    Wedwood wrote: »
    Does it all hold together as a nine movie saga? I’d say it’s similar to a movie like How the West was Won, which is comprised of several different self contained stories in separate eras, leading to an eventual conclusion/resolution.

    Not a chance - even the current trilogy doesn't hold together as a trilogy.

    You can skip ep8 and go straight from 7 to 9.


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    #2572
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    It didn't hold together as a six movie saga either.


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    #2573
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,108 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    TBH I think the prequels are the only coherent ‘trilogy’ of the three. Always felt A New Hope feels pretty stand-contained and then there were two sequels (and they were stretching the story thin by the time Return of the Jedi rolled around). Prequels, despite being ****e, do feel like three chapters of one story. This one would have nearly made it as an interesting trilogy had Abrams not shat the bed with TROS.


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    #2574
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Yup, if we're being technical, the only trilogy that had a defined plot structure and narrative arcs, were the prequels. The other two trilogies were clearly ad-hoc vehicles for better or worse.


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    #2575
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    TBH I think the prequels are the only coherent ‘trilogy’ of the three. Always felt A New Hope feels pretty stand-contained and then there were two sequels (and they were stretching the story thin by the time Return of the Jedi rolled around). Prequels, despite being ****e, do feel like three chapters of one story. This one would have nearly made it as an interesting trilogy had Abrams not shat the bed with TROS.

    Agree with this, even though I also think they were shite.

    But in terms of sheer consistent entertainment, the originals is where it's at. Thankfully, due to the nature of how they were made, you can watch any trilogy as a stand alone series and not have to even bother with the rest.

    The prequels, though, will always be one of the biggest missed opportunities in cinema history. Everything is there for a fantastic story that could have complimented the original films. But they buggered it up big time.


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    #2576
    homerun_homer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,024 ✭✭✭homerun_homer


    Total flop and a financial loss for Disney
    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    This one would have nearly made it as an interesting trilogy had Abrams not shat the bed with TROS.

    I know Abrams isn't known for nailing endings to anything but I feel a lot of this was taken out of his hands. I know there are leaks to back that up whether they can be trusted or not, but ultimately you can't deny he had hired Matt Smith as a bad guy for the film and then he was ousted because Disney wanted to fan service by bringing back the Emperor mid-filming. That's not speculation either which is why I mention it. I've no doubt he kept getting his hands tied with decisions outside of his control, when he signed on it was to have more ownership on where things would go than he had with TFA and he ended up with less.

    Also, the deck handed to anyone with TLJ combined with Carrie's death is a tough task to juggle and make a decent finale. I hated TROS so I'm not trying to justify the film at all. I just think JJ got a raw deal, you could see he was not enthused during any of the promo for the film. It was all very phoned in by everyone involved.


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    #2577
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,830 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Can't really excuse JJ. I'm no fan of VIII but the foundation was flawed from the beginning. Force Awakens opens on the premise that the Rebellion still exists. A completely nonsense setup that kind of sums up almost every JJ movie. He doesn't give a damn about coherent stories. Just watch his Star Trek. More total nonsense story telling. I understand why RJ tried to change things but I think he failed. Others don't but regardless I doubt if JJ would have made anything other than a bright shiny load of nonsense anyway.


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    #2578
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Yeah, persisting with the Rebellion was just narrative junk; especially given the New Republic was established and present . The contrivance to have both a Republic AND a Rebellion at the same time was just a bad script trying to speak out of both sides of its mouths. Decades of material outlining the galaxy after the good guys won in the old spin-offs, and instead we got that weird setup.


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    #2579
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    mewso wrote: »
    Can't really excuse JJ. I'm no fan of VIII but the foundation was flawed from the beginning. Force Awakens opens on the premise that the Rebellion still exists. A completely nonsense setup that kind of sums up almost every JJ movie. He doesn't give a damn about coherent stories. Just watch his Star Trek. More total nonsense story telling. I understand why RJ tried to change things but I think he failed. Others don't but regardless I doubt if JJ would have made anything other than a bright shiny load of nonsense anyway.

    Agreed. While he was certainly painted into a corner by Johnson's nonsense, his own efforts in 'The Force Awakens' had poked holes in the good ship Star Wars before it left port.


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    #2580
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I watched this the first time tonight. My kids warned me it was bad. I've never heard them complain about a movie so much. They couldn't explain how bad it was. So I watched it.

    It was far worse than what I was expecting. I don't get how it even gets middle of the road reviews. For me it's abysmal.

    I watched the first star wars movie on its original release in the cinema. I'm glad I experienced that as the landmark in cinema that it was. I've been a fan since. But I think this movie has obliterated any empathy I have for this franchise.

    But this last film is like a kid has coloured in a drawing. Used ever crayon in the box and obliterated whatever it was meant to be. Then they turn to you and ask you what it is..... there's a voice screaming in you head, over and over..... do NOT say utter sh...


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    #2581
    Shakey_jake
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭Shakey_jake


    We've decoded the intel from the spy, and it confirms the worst.

    Somehow Palpatine returned. :o

    Like WHO thought this was a good IDEA!!??


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