Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

23-04-2019 11:46pm

jasper100 wrote: »

High density housing clustered around a railway station with a frequent and reliable service.

High density housing. In rural Ireland? Lads... there'll be war over the restrictions needed for that :pac:

marno21 · 23-04-2019 11:52pm

Time to revive the Ballyglunin Towers proposal.

23-04-2019 11:56pm

jasper100 wrote: »

High density housing clustered around a railway station with a frequent and reliable service.

Lol, If the WRC had the power to change national planning policy I'd feckin build it myself

London Correspondent · 24-04-2019 12:47am

The only lols around here are those who actually take what Colm McCarthy has to say on railways seriously. This is the “economist” who not only tried to stop both the Dart and the Luas but Failed miserably to forecast the collapse of the Celtic Tiger years.

London Correspondent · 24-04-2019 12:58am

jasper100 wrote: »

The fundamental issue is that constantly building roads and motorways is not the solution. It just leads to further congestion at the edges of cities and more gridlock. Ireland also needs to get its emissions under control and more roads and cars ain't the answer.

This is a very serious point; Ireland’s emissions are not under control and we face significant carbon taxes as a result. Listening to fools like McCarthy and those who believe him has led us to the place we are in now.

24-04-2019 10:43am

London Correspondent wrote: »

This is a very serious point; Ireland’s emissions are not under control and we face significant carbon taxes as a result. Listening to fools like McCarthy and those who believe him has led us to the place we are in now.

Cyclists produce no emissions, sounds like we should have a lot more greenways

jasper100 · 24-04-2019 2:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Cyclists produce no emissions, sounds like we should have a lot more greenways

Another round of silly cyber high five LOL's all round posts from the lads.

Commuters travelling to work over a long distance won't be taking the bike.:rolleyes:

Muckyboots · 24-04-2019 3:44pm

jasper100 wrote: »

Another round of silly cyber high five LOL's all round posts from the lads.

Commuters travelling to work over a long distance won't be taking the bike.:rolleyes:

They won't be taking a train to Athenry either - rolls eyes, dishes out high fives and L'sOL...

Lord Glentoran · 24-04-2019 5:31pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

They won't be taking a train to Athenry either - rolls eyes, dishes out high fives and L'sOL...

I wouldn’t be surprised if there’ll be a fella soon with a megaphone on the Galway - Limerick trains roaring “Why aren’t ye on yer bikes!!!!” at the passengers...

westtip · 25-04-2019 12:58pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I wouldn’t be surprised if there’ll be a fella soon with a megaphone on the Galway - Limerick trains roaring “Why aren’t ye on yer bikes!!!!” at the passengers...

don't worry they can all get on the velorail from Kiltimagh to Athenry, no news on that project moving forward is there?:D

westtip · 25-04-2019 1:01pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I wouldn’t be surprised if there’ll be a fella soon with a megaphone on the Galway - Limerick trains roaring “Why aren’t ye on yer bikes!!!!” at the passengers...

Or he might shout why didn't you take the bus you'd be there by now, as they trundle into Athenry for the driver turnaround. Mind you he wouldn't have much to say to anyone on the Ennis/Athenry section, as despite the most recently massaged figures this section is still massively underperforming the business case forecast, but hey what's new...

Isambard · 25-04-2019 2:46pm

what you say is true.
However a lot of the passengers won't care how long it takes as they are out for the day trip. I might go for a train ride but I wouldn't ever take the bus, I've a car for road journeys. I expect there are others like me.

westtip · 25-04-2019 3:29pm

Isambard wrote: »

what you say is true.
However a lot of the passengers won't care how long it takes as they are out for the day trip. I might go for a train ride but I wouldn't ever take the bus, I've a car for road journeys. I expect there are others like me.

sounds like a quote from the McCann report! Let's go build a train line so pensioners can have a nice day out and students can use it on Friday nights and Sunday evenings.....

London Correspondent · 25-04-2019 3:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Which provable fact that he stated do you have a problem with?

westtip · 25-04-2019 4:27pm

London Correspondent wrote: »

This is a very serious point; Ireland’s emissions are not under control and we face significant carbon taxes as a result. Listening to fools like McCarthy and those who believe him has led us to the place we are in now.

Yep you are dead right what we need is some really serious transport planners to write a report for us, just like the geniuses who wrote the McCann Report which in turn led to the disastrous policy of the Western Rail Corridor.

Now who was that McCann report written by????.....Duhhh let me think, most of its so called Expert Working Group was made up of members of West on Track.....This will never be allowed to happen again, A lobby group being allowed to write public policy, sorry to disappoint you LC no matter what Colm MCarthy writes I can assure the future policy on the so called Western Rail Corridor is not going to be written by high command in Claremorris or the priest in Maynooth. Days numbered. End of.

London Correspondent · 25-04-2019 4:39pm

westtip wrote: »

Yep you are dead right what we need is some really serious transport planners to write a report for us, just like the geniuses who wrote the McCann Report which in turn led to the disastrous policy of the Western Rail Corridor.

Now who was that McCann report written by????.....Duhhh let me think, most of its so called Expert Working Group was made up of members of West on Track.....This will never be allowed to happen again, A lobby group being allowed to write public policy, sorry to disappoint you LC no matter what Colm MCarthy writes I can assure the future policy on the so called Western Rail Corridor is not going to be written by high command in Claremorris or the priest in Maynooth. Days numbered. End of.

I’m confused. Are you advocating for a Greenway on a
Rail track in the west or are you looking to close down railways in the west?

serfboard · 25-04-2019 5:08pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

More worthless rubbish from a well known anti-railway pundit.

Why didn't you go for the WOT full-house and claim that he's "anti-west" as well? :rolleyes:

Tell me what it is about this that you disagree with:

Colm McCarthy wrote:

If an extra €100m could be found for transport investment in the west, would this be best spent on road improvements or on another single-track rail line offering infrequent service and guaranteed to lose money?

What's amusing to me is that an economist based in Dublin is derided as being clueless on transport, whereas a priest based in Maynooth is an expert?

jasper100 wrote: »

High density housing clustered around a railway station with a frequent and reliable service.

If this was the case Woodlawn would be a metropolis.

Not much "high density housing clustered around a railway station" there ...

westtip · 25-04-2019 9:17pm

London Correspondent wrote: »

I’m confused. Are you advocating for a Greenway on a
Rail track in the west or are you looking to close down railways in the west?

No wrong on both counts. I never ever said close down railways in the west, Athenry to Collooney is already well and truly closed, and is highly unlikely to re-open.

As for other railways in the west, yep I would love to see high speed trains from Dublin to Sligo, Galway and indeed Limerick. I would love to get on a train in Sligo and arrive in Dublin 90 minutes later, or in Galway and arrive in Dublin an hour later. Entirely possible, unfornuately a lobby group like West on Track has been lobbying for the wrong kind of rail infrastructure for years. We can agree to differ on this matter, but that's life.

Lord Glentoran · 25-04-2019 10:17pm

London Correspondent wrote: »

McCarthy is truly a one-legged man in an arse kicking contest.

whisky_galore · 26-04-2019 11:33am

westtip wrote: »

sounds like a quote from the McCann report! Let's go build a train line so pensioners can have a nice day out and students can use it on Friday nights and Sunday evenings.....

Isn't that all a greenway is, so people can have a nice day out? It's not a serious piece of transport infrastructure.

blanch152 · 26-04-2019 2:09pm

jasper100 wrote: »

Another round of silly cyber high five LOL's all round posts from the lads.

Commuters travelling to work over a long distance won't be taking the bike.:rolleyes:

There shouldn't be commuters travelling to work over long distances. No more rural housing, just build up the cities of Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford as well as some of the larger towns as service centres.

London Correspondent · 26-04-2019 4:18pm

westtip wrote: »

I have no idea, perhaps you should visit Kilmactomais in Waterford to see the number of new start up businesses resulting from folks having a nice day out....it is a serious piece of tourism infrastructure, but sure you know that. but good to see Lord GT and London Correspondent like your school boy humour, were you all at the same prep school together? it's about the level of wit you appear capable of achieving.

Why are you asking if I went to school with another poster on the board. It’s like you want to find out or reveal personal information about me. For the record I think Lord Glentoran was a minister in the Stormont Government some time in the sixties. I think he may have been instrumental in closing much of the North’s railways. So no, I didnt go to prep school with him, and if you really need to know who I went to school with I consider that creepy.

westtip · 26-04-2019 4:34pm

London Correspondent wrote: »

Why are you asking if I went to school with another poster on the board. It’s like you want to find out or reveal personal information about me. For the record I think Lord Glentoran was a minister in the Stormont Government some time in the sixties. I think he may have been instrumental in closing much of the North’s railways. So no, I didnt go to prep school with him, and if you really need to know who I went to school with I consider that creepy.

yep thought so, no sense of humour. I have no desire to know anymore about you personally, couldn't give a monkeys old chap, it was a jest, clearly not understood. Touch of spin there, I obviously bowled you the wrong 'un or was it a googly. Not sure never really mastered the art of leg spin bowling.

Hotblack Desiato · 27-04-2019 1:06am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Isn't that all a greenway is, so people can have a nice day out? It's not a serious piece of transport infrastructure.

Pretty much (although a few commuters might use it.) But it's cheap and generates real economic benefits without an ongoing subsidy.

whisky_galore · 27-04-2019 3:13am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Pretty much (although a few commuters might use it.) But it's cheap and generates real economic benefits without an ongoing subsidy.

How cheap is "cheap"?
It still has to maintained, and that's not exactly free. People have got it into their heads that these things cost next to nothing.

27-04-2019 9:10am

whisky_galore wrote: »

How cheap is "cheap"?
It still has to maintained, and that's not exactly free. People have got it into their heads that these things cost next to nothing.

That's the thing, these greenways are generating so much additional revenue for local rural economies, creating jobs and businesses, that they effectively pay for themselves within a very short period.

As for ongoing maintenance, true there is a cost, but again its paid for many times over by the income generated.

Now let's do a quick comparison.

Athenry to Tuam is, ballpark, 100 million for the railway and would require massive subvention on an ongoing basis to the tune of millions a year.

A greenway from Athenry to Sligo would be, again ballpark, max 25 million, would pay for itself within 3-5 years and would have ongoing costs in relation to cleaning and maintenance. Given that it's for walkers and cyclists I don't foresee any issues with the surface for a LONG time so actual ongoing costs are minimal.

I know which one I'd vote for

London Correspondent · 27-04-2019 9:56am

The Greenway campaign works on the basis that nothing will be changed regarding the local population over the next 40 years. But change is coming; the Ireland 2040 project forecasts an expanded population in the State and that extra population is intended to live in the larger towns and cities in the West for the most part.

To handle that extra population we will need to end the laissez-faire approach to planning we have had over the last 50 years and the impending carbon taxes we will have to pay due to our over dependence on private cars means that we can no longer just throw money at roads while deliberately starving the railway of funding.

Meanwhile a working planning system would take land around under used railway stations and zone it for development.

Land as we all know is at a premium and if we convert the WRC to a cycle track you can be sure it won’t be given up by the Greenway supporters. We have the proof in the UK that won’t happen no matter what assurances can be made at the time. Google Sustrans and Railways. DaCor and others then say “Ah, that won’t happen here”. But anyone can see by the continuing efforts of Westtip and others like the so-called economist Colm McCarthy to rubbish the railway that the promise to hand the line back simply won’t be kept. And to paraphrase DaCor, if you bring up Colm McCarthy as an expert on whether the line should be reopened, you’ve lost the argument.

The messages and tactics used on sites like the Facebook Quiet Man Greenway page aren’t lost on many senior politicians and Civil Seevants. Supporters there are frequently asked to “nip over” to opponents pages to make comments and get blocked. The West On Crack Facebook page proved the depths to which the Greenway supporters would go to rubbish their opponents and the aggressive tactics used to try and force the Barrow Blueway onto locals are not forgotten either. The Greenway supporters met their match with the formidable Olivia O’Leary.

Muckyboots · 27-04-2019 11:22am

London Correspondent wrote: »

The messages and tactics used on sites like the Facebook Quiet Man Greenway page aren’t lost on many senior politicians and Civil Servants. .

If this is true, and I don't believe it is, they should grow up and do the job they are well paid to do and stop pissing about on social media looking for trolls under bridges.

devnull · 27-04-2019 12:30pm

Thread Reopened.

A reminder that civility is not just a desirable trait here, it is a pre-requisite to you being allowed to post.

- Moderator

westtip · 27-04-2019 12:48pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

How cheap is "cheap"?
It still has to maintained, and that's not exactly free. People have got it into their heads that these things cost next to nothing.

cheap enough to pay for itself in a handful of years, which is what has happened with all the other long distance greenways.

If you want to know about things that cost a lot and deliver nothing go to Kiltimagh.

westtip · 27-04-2019 12:55pm

London Correspondent wrote: »

Land as we all know is at a premium and if we convert the WRC to a cycle track you can be sure it won’t be given up by the Greenway supporters. O’Leary.

the Meehan Tully report commissioned and paid for by Sligo coco and which no member of either West on Track or the Sligo Greenway Co-op had anything to do with made this recommendation in 2016 when it was published:

These are the last two paragraphs of the report entitled "Sligo Western Rail Corridor: Assessment of Options" Page 42 the last comments in the entire report before appendices.

What about the potential reopening of the line?
Communication with Irish Rail and other greenway projects has repeatedly highlighted the absolute requirement of a clause in the greenway licence that requires the revocation of the licence if the line is reopened at any stage. This is strictly enforced and reemphasised by Irish Rail, who also require, where necessary, additional costs to be incurred in the development of the greenway to ensure future-proofing in the event of a reopening of the line.
What is the final recommendation?
The final recommendation is that Option Two, the single-use greenway should be pursued in the short-term, however Option One, the reopening of the line to rail traffic should be the longer-term objective.

I am not sure how many times it has to be said that Irish Rail don't lease the line to "the Greenway supporters" they will lease it to the county council with watertight clauses about the options to return a route to railway if needed.

Is it at all possible that the arguments about Comber Valley are dead in the water and people might actually grasp this fact?

Markcheese · 27-04-2019 1:50pm

The big money infrastructure investment in and around galway(rightly or wrongly), is in roads.
And tuam to galway has a brand new motorway,
If a fraction of the effort that seems to be being put in to blocking a greenway was put into pushing an excellent coach/ bus system from tuam to galway then public transport would a lot further along...
Potentially the line might be needed again, in 25 /30 years(and if s use it) , but only tuam to galway, the rest is dead...

Lord Glentoran · 27-04-2019 6:10pm

Markcheese wrote: »

The big money infrastructure investment in and around galway(rightly or wrongly), is in roads.
And tuam to galway has a brand new motorway,
If a fraction of the effort that seems to be being put in to blocking a greenway was put into pushing an excellent coach/ bus system from tuam to galway then public transport would a lot further along...
Potentially the line might be needed again, in 25 /30 years(and if s use it) , but only tuam to galway, the rest is dead...

How would an “excellent coach/bus system from tuam to galway” materialise? Given the bottlenecks I can’t see any option other than CPOs, demolitions and a quare amount of construction to make it so. It is curious how not so long ago we were told that the Mosherway would solve all Tuam-Galway issues. Now it hasn’t.

So where’s the bottomless pit of money now?

All we can do, it seems, is double down on roads, scattershot planning, and maintaining the status quo at all costs.

Is Galway the only city in Europe where instead of addressing Extinction Rebellion concerns, many seem happy to accelerate the destruction instead of halting it?

Isambard · 27-04-2019 6:17pm

the railway won't solve all the problems either. There are an awful lot of people who want to go elsewhere than where the railway would.AT least the Motorway forms an integral part of a road journey which can have limitless starting and ending points.

westtip · 27-04-2019 6:47pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

How would an “excellent coach/bus system from tuam to galway” materialise? Given the bottlenecks I can’t see any option other than CPOs, demolitions and a quare amount of construction to make it so. It is curious how not so long ago we were told that the Mosherway would solve all Tuam-Galway issues. Now it hasn’t.

So where’s the bottomless pit of money now?

All we can do, it seems, is double down on roads, scattershot planning, and maintaining the status quo at all costs.

Is Galway the only city in Europe where instead of addressing Extinction Rebellion concerns, many seem happy to accelerate the destruction instead of halting it?

Multi-storey car park and free parking at Oranmore, then load more people on the "Western Rail Corridor" from Oranmore to Galway, bump up the figures on the "Western Rail Corridor" adding in all those park and rides using the Dublin-Galway line (sorry Western Rail corridor to Galway), get those figures up to an unbelievable level so that a train can be built to Claremorris or even a rail air link to Knock that will allow Salmon Anglers get the train to Ballina

to quote Colman O'Ragilly of West on Track in this weeks western people

"A link to Ballina for those that want to fish the Moy or visit the Ceide Fields is another option"

Isn't he forgetting the Velorail will get in the way of the train.....or will it!!!:D

London Correspondent · 27-04-2019 7:51pm

Isn’t it strange that while the West On Track people can be discussed the Greenway campaigners can’t be discussed.

westtip · 27-04-2019 8:29pm

London Correspondent wrote: »

Isn’t it strange that while the West On Track people can be discussed the Greenway campaigners can’t be discussed.

The West on Track person is being quoted from a public newspaper, Mr O'Ragilly is not being discussed, he is not the subject of the comment, his quote is being used to illustrate the comment made . I am sure none of those people who support a greenway would have any objection to being quoted, but may as you say not like to be the subject of the discussion. This thread I believe is about discussing the Western Rail corridor/Rail Trail, not about discussing people involved in the campaign on either side.

Comprenez?

Lord Glentoran · 27-04-2019 8:59pm

westtip wrote: »

The West on Track person is being quoted from a public newspaper, Mr O'Ragilly is not being discussed, he is not the subject of the comment, his quote is being used to illustrate the comment made . I am sure none of those people who support a greenway would have any objection to being quoted, but may as you say not like to be the subject of the discussion. This thread I believe is about discussing the Western Rail corridor/Rail Trail, not about discussing people involved in the campaign on either side.

Comprenez?

It didnt stop you speculating about links between me and London Correspondent.
Je comprends ce que tu fais.

Markcheese · 27-04-2019 9:03pm

Trains are mass transport....
West on track sees the transport bit... Its just the masses to use it are missing... Its not the DART...

devnull · 28-04-2019 7:28am

Stick to the topic, rather than focusing on each other.

- Moderator

eastwest · 28-04-2019 9:25am

I see from today's Sunday independent that mayo county council's wot-inspired greenway-blocking project in Kiltimagh has fallen foul of the planners.
I thought the county council was supposed to be the body policing the planning laws, and not some kind of cowboy builder trying to pull a fast one.
I wonder if heads will roll, or will somebody just be given a decade of the rosary.

Muckyboots · 28-04-2019 9:49am

eastwest wrote: »

I see from today's Sunday independent that mayo county council's wot-inspired greenway-blocking project in Kiltimagh has fallen foul of the planners.
I thought the county council was supposed to be the body policing the planning laws, and not some kind of cowboy builder trying to pull a fast one.
I wonder if heads will roll, or will somebody just be given a decade of the rosary.

Lovely. €300,000+ wasted on a blatantly vexatious stance on something Mayo CoCo should have known full well was both not in the public interest and non compliant with planning . Time for P.A.C. to have a look.

westtip · 28-04-2019 10:04am

eastwest wrote: »

I see from today's Sunday independent that mayo county council's wot-inspired greenway-blocking project in Kiltimagh has fallen foul of the planners.
I thought the county council was supposed to be the body policing the planning laws, and not some kind of cowboy builder trying to pull a fast one.
I wonder if heads will roll, or will somebody just be given a decade of the rosary.

didn't fall foul of the planners, it was the planners who fell foul of their own foolishness, and were found out by An Bord Pleanla the quote from the head of tourism recreation and amenity at Mayo coco was I believe spoken through very gritted teeth.:D

The decision from An Bord was based entirely on the planning statutes, this is why the incompetence of MCC is so galling. The basis of the decision can be found in An Bord Pleanala’s reasoning in the bord direction document in which they cite. Section 3 (1) of the Planning and Development Act 2000 and section 2 (1) 38 and 43 of the Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act 2001 as amended all cited as the reason for this decision.

Don't they know the planning laws in MCC?

planning board knock back Ring.jpg

Lord Glentoran · 28-04-2019 10:29am

eastwest wrote: »

I wonder if heads will roll

Game of Thrones actual re-enactments in Mayo?! Now there’s a slightly terrifying thought. I’m sure there’s a market for that though

eastwest · 28-04-2019 12:01pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

Lovely. €300,000+ wasted on a blatantly vexatious stance on something Mayo CoCo should have known full well was both not in the public interest and non compliant with planning . Time for P.A.C. to have a look.

Apparently its half a mil in total. And nothing to show on the ground.
If you add in the 500k for the rail review, and another 70 grand for the design work on Ballyglunin bridge, plus the money somebody spent on building fences in Tuam (also without planning permission), you begin to get a picture of a very expensive organised campaign within local authorities in the west that is aimed at stopping greenway development and that doesn't abide by the law.
In a civilised country, somebody would at least lose their job.

Lord Glentoran · 28-04-2019 2:19pm

eastwest wrote: »

Apparently its half a mil in total. And nothing to show on the ground.
If you add in the 500k for the rail review, and another 70 grand for the design work on Ballyglunin bridge, plus the money somebody spent on building fences in Tuam (also without planning permission), you begin to get a picture of a very expensive organised campaign within local authorities in the west that is aimed at stopping greenway development and that doesn't abide by the law.
In a civilised country, somebody would at least lose their job.

Have the Gardaí been notified?

eastwest · 28-04-2019 2:33pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

Apparently its half a mil in total. And nothing to show on the ground.
If you add in the 500k for the rail review, and another 70 grand for the design work on Ballyglunin bridge, plus the money somebody spent on building fences in Tuam (also without planning permission), you begin to get a picture of a very expensive organised campaign within local authorities in the west that is aimed at stopping greenway development and that doesn't abide by the law.
In a civilised country, somebody would at least lose their job.

Have the Gardaí been notified?

I dont think it's a job for the gardai, given that it's a breach of planning legislation.
Maybe somebody should inform mayo county council?

westtip · 28-04-2019 3:58pm

Following the coverage in the national press today a more detailed press release below has been released by the Western Rail Trail Campaign:

Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign
April 27th 2019 for immediate release

• Planning Board rules against Kiltimagh Velorail project - overruling Mayo County Council
• Half a million Euro given to project by Minister Ring despite warnings about planning issues
• Council should abide by planning laws’ say Western Rail Trail campaign
• Greenway Campaign asks Mayo County Council to listen to thousands of petitioners and those that made submissions on county plan to include greenway in new velorail project plans
• Greenway campaigners appeal to local election candidates if elected to take the message back to the council chamber and ask why the council will not engage with Greenway concept.

An Bord Pleanala has ruled that the Kiltimagh Velorail project – a plan to use a section of the closed railway from Athenry to Collooney in Kiltimagh to carry self propelled carts on the closed railway as a tourist attraction – must apply for planning permission despite an assertion by Mayo County Council that the project constituted exempt development.

The Western Rail Trail campaign has been seeking the use of the closed rail alignment as a long-distance greenway from Athenry to Enniskillen until such time as a railway might be possible. The Western Rail Trail Greenway concept is designed to bring a huge tourism boost to towns all along the line and to provide connections to the Dublin Galway Greenway at Athenry and to the Great Western Greenway in Mayo. The campaign claim the potential for tourism in the West of Ireland and along the Atlantic Economic Corridor is huge.

Campaigners were concerned that the velorail project as proposed effectively blocked the long distance greenway to benefit tourism on the Atlantic Economic Corridor from going through Kiltimagh, creating a 6km gap on the Western Rail Trail from Athenry County Galway to Collooney County Sligo resulting in Kiltimagh losing out on the tourist boom the Western Rail Trail will bring. The project sponsors Kiltimagh IRD and Mayo County Council refused to consider the very reasonable idea of a greenway to run alongside the closed railway as part of the overall project design for the 6km that the velorail will run on, so as not to have a gap in the proposed Western Rail Trail from Athenry to Collooney, and so Kiltimagh will not lose out.

Despite hundreds of submissions to the Mayo County Plan received in 2013 asking for a greenway on the closed railway route and a local petition in Kiltimagh attracting over 1,000 signatures, plus a national petition signed by almost 24,000 people in support of the Western Rail Trail, the concerns of the greenway supporters have been consistently ignored by Mayo County Council.

The refusal of Mayo County Council and Kiltimagh IRD to engage in a planning process meant that local concerns were never heard; Leading to the project being appealed to An Bord Pleanala (ABP) in November 2017.

Last week, ABP ruled that the County Council and Kiltimagh IRD were incorrect in their view that the project constituted exempt development. Despite having attracted almost half a million euro in funding, the velorail project is now effectively back at the starting blocks and must now be the subject of a planning process, which will allow local concerns to be addressed.

A spokesman for the Western Rail Trail welcomed the ruling, but was critical of Minister Ring and the County Council for their handling of the project to date.

Brendan Quinn said: “The An Bord Pleanala decision was based entirely on the planning statutes, which were cited in the Boards Direction. One would assume senior planners in Mayo county council would be familiar with the planning laws and it makes us wonder why the council was so obstructive to our views. It has been a long arduous process involved in challenging the council, Mayo County Council have tried to stop this challenge every step of the way making it as difficult as possible for us.”

“The Council should lead by example and abide by planning laws” said Quinn, “and not decide that they can ignore them like some cowboy builder and then try to obstruct people from questioning their decision making”

Quinn went on to question the funding of the project by Minister Ring, in spite of the Minister being advised to adopt a cautious approach by his officials. “In December 2017 I advised Minister Ring by email that the matter was being adjudicated on by An Bord Pleanala” he said, “but it appears that the Minister was more inclined to listen to Mayo County Council. We now know Mayo county council was not a good source of advice when it came to planning law”

Quinn went on to say that greenway campaigners are not opposed to the velorail project, despite reservations on its viability, and they certainly don’t oppose a railway if it should ever make sense. However he said “the greenway is the best option actually on the table in terms of funding, and the benefits of such infrastructure are well proven.”

The Greenway Campaign now looks forward to hearing the planning proposals from Mayo County Council now that the Velo Rail project is legally bound to make a planning submission. Quinn added

“We don’t want more battles with Mayo County Council; we are just asking the council executive, planning officers and above all the council members to finally embrace what thousands of people have said by signing petitions and making submissions on this subject to include a walking and cycling track alongside the route of the velorail. There have been hundreds of submissions to the council, thousands signing petitions and the County Council planning executive haven’t even allowed the council members to debate this issue, it is deplorable”

“We also hope that Mayo County Council executive and all candidates in the forthcoming election will finally recognise that north of Claremorris at least, a greenway is actually the best option open to the county to create a real amenity on the closed railway route, excepting that at Kiltimagh it will run alongside the velorail for a few kilometres”

Ends

ENDS: body text 899 words Contacts: contact via the sligomayogreenway page on facebook please

References:

1. The An bord pleanala planning reference ABP-300285-17. All documentation relating to the appeal has been released on www.pleanala.ie

2. Petitions in favour of the greenway can be found on www.change.org

3. 23,475 people have signed https://www.change.org/p/western-rail-trail-campaign-create-a-walking-and-cycling-greenway-on-the-closed-railway-from-sligo-to-athenry

4. 1006 people signed a specific petition asking Mayo county council to put a greenway alongside the closed railway where it is being used as a velorail. The petition was signed by over half the adult population of Kiltimagh

5. https://www.change.org/p/peter-hynes-mayo-county-manager-put-a-walking-and-cycling-path-for-everyone-to-enjoy-parallel-with-kiltimagh-velorail

westtip · 02-05-2019 9:37am

eastwest wrote: »

Apparently its half a mil in total. And nothing to show on the ground.
If you add in the 500k for the rail review, and another 70 grand for the design work on Ballyglunin bridge, plus the money somebody spent on building fences in Tuam (also without planning permission), you begin to get a picture of a very expensive organised campaign within local authorities in the west that is aimed at stopping greenway development and that doesn't abide by the law.
In a civilised country, somebody would at least lose their job.

And a government minister who chucked money at a project in his own constituency that he knew was having issues with planning would have held back and said lets wait and see what happens first, Minister Ring showed no such caution, his money flinging was blatant.

serfboard · 02-05-2019 11:59am

eastwest wrote: »

I see from today's Sunday independent that mayo county council's wot-inspired greenway-blocking project in Kiltimagh has fallen foul of the planners.

The article is here.

Sunday Independent wrote:

The setback for the project comes just weeks after the developers announced an additional Leader grant of €198,000 to cover the costs of the carriages, a website and signage. This follows two grants of €180,000 and €118,000 approved by Mr Ring.

There's where half a million of our money is going, folks.

Sunday Independent wrote:

The project ran overbudget by €147,000 because of unforeseen problems, such as subsidence to the railway line.

The minister approved the €118,000 grant to contribute towards the over-run, reportedly despite warnings from his civil servants that doing so could cause "problematic precedents".

If you follow the documents from An Bord Pleanala through, you will come across this wonderful gem:

An Bord Pleanalas Inspectors Report Addendum wrote:

I would also note reference, in the submitted copy of the application for departmental funding by the Kiltimagh IRD, to proposed laybys, pull-in areas and a small food vending area for refreshments along the route, which are not referred to in development description.

It is not clear what is meant by pull-in areas, but it would seem unlikely that this would be provided through anything as substantial as an extension of track (such as sidings), which would be an expensive, intrusive and significant undertaking and would be excessive for such light vehicles.

It would seem impractical for the proposed facility to operate without pull-in areas to enable opposing velo carts to pass or velo carts to overtake one another without pull-in areas at frequent intervals, but not impossible depending on how the facility is operated (such as travelling in organised convoys).

This is comical stuff, but unfortunately the pathetic joke is on us, and the half a million that's already been spent/promised on this project.

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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