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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

[Deleted User]

Carrying on with the discussion as the other thread is full

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055766866/1

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westtip

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I wouldn’t be surprised if there’ll be a fella soon with a megaphone on the Galway - Limerick trains roaring “Why aren’t ye on yer bikes!!!!” at the passengers...

Or he might shout why didn't you take the bus you'd be there by now, as they trundle into Athenry for the driver turnaround. Mind you he wouldn't have much to say to anyone on the Ennis/Athenry section, as despite the most recently massaged figures this section is still massively underperforming the business case forecast, but hey what's new...

Isambard

what you say is true.
However a lot of the passengers won't care how long it takes as they are out for the day trip. I might go for a train ride but I wouldn't ever take the bus, I've a car for road journeys. I expect there are others like me.

westtip

Isambard wrote: »

what you say is true.
However a lot of the passengers won't care how long it takes as they are out for the day trip. I might go for a train ride but I wouldn't ever take the bus, I've a car for road journeys. I expect there are others like me.

sounds like a quote from the McCann report! Let's go build a train line so pensioners can have a nice day out and students can use it on Friday nights and Sunday evenings.....

London Correspondent

Deleted User wrote: »

Which provable fact that he stated do you have a problem with?

westtip

London Correspondent wrote: »

This is a very serious point; Ireland’s emissions are not under control and we face significant carbon taxes as a result. Listening to fools like McCarthy and those who believe him has led us to the place we are in now.

Yep you are dead right what we need is some really serious transport planners to write a report for us, just like the geniuses who wrote the McCann Report which in turn led to the disastrous policy of the Western Rail Corridor.

Now who was that McCann report written by????.....Duhhh let me think, most of its so called Expert Working Group was made up of members of West on Track.....This will never be allowed to happen again, A lobby group being allowed to write public policy, sorry to disappoint you LC no matter what Colm MCarthy writes I can assure the future policy on the so called Western Rail Corridor is not going to be written by high command in Claremorris or the priest in Maynooth. Days numbered. End of.

London Correspondent

westtip wrote: »

Yep you are dead right what we need is some really serious transport planners to write a report for us, just like the geniuses who wrote the McCann Report which in turn led to the disastrous policy of the Western Rail Corridor.

Now who was that McCann report written by????.....Duhhh let me think, most of its so called Expert Working Group was made up of members of West on Track.....This will never be allowed to happen again, A lobby group being allowed to write public policy, sorry to disappoint you LC no matter what Colm MCarthy writes I can assure the future policy on the so called Western Rail Corridor is not going to be written by high command in Claremorris or the priest in Maynooth. Days numbered. End of.

I’m confused. Are you advocating for a Greenway on a
Rail track in the west or are you looking to close down railways in the west?

serfboard

Del.Monte wrote: »

More worthless rubbish from a well known anti-railway pundit.

Why didn't you go for the WOT full-house and claim that he's "anti-west" as well? :rolleyes:

Tell me what it is about this that you disagree with:

Colm McCarthy wrote:

If an extra €100m could be found for transport investment in the west, would this be best spent on road improvements or on another single-track rail line offering infrequent service and guaranteed to lose money?

What's amusing to me is that an economist based in Dublin is derided as being clueless on transport, whereas a priest based in Maynooth is an expert?

jasper100 wrote: »

High density housing clustered around a railway station with a frequent and reliable service.

If this was the case Woodlawn would be a metropolis.

Not much "high density housing clustered around a railway station" there ...

westtip

London Correspondent wrote: »

I’m confused. Are you advocating for a Greenway on a
Rail track in the west or are you looking to close down railways in the west?

No wrong on both counts. I never ever said close down railways in the west, Athenry to Collooney is already well and truly closed, and is highly unlikely to re-open.

As for other railways in the west, yep I would love to see high speed trains from Dublin to Sligo, Galway and indeed Limerick. I would love to get on a train in Sligo and arrive in Dublin 90 minutes later, or in Galway and arrive in Dublin an hour later. Entirely possible, unfornuately a lobby group like West on Track has been lobbying for the wrong kind of rail infrastructure for years. We can agree to differ on this matter, but that's life.

Lord Glentoran

London Correspondent wrote: »

McCarthy is truly a one-legged man in an arse kicking contest.

whisky_galore

westtip wrote: »

sounds like a quote from the McCann report! Let's go build a train line so pensioners can have a nice day out and students can use it on Friday nights and Sunday evenings.....

Isn't that all a greenway is, so people can have a nice day out? It's not a serious piece of transport infrastructure.

blanch152

jasper100 wrote: »

Another round of silly cyber high five LOL's all round posts from the lads.

Commuters travelling to work over a long distance won't be taking the bike.:rolleyes:

There shouldn't be commuters travelling to work over long distances. No more rural housing, just build up the cities of Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford as well as some of the larger towns as service centres.

London Correspondent

westtip wrote: »

I have no idea, perhaps you should visit Kilmactomais in Waterford to see the number of new start up businesses resulting from folks having a nice day out....it is a serious piece of tourism infrastructure, but sure you know that. but good to see Lord GT and London Correspondent like your school boy humour, were you all at the same prep school together? it's about the level of wit you appear capable of achieving.

Why are you asking if I went to school with another poster on the board. It’s like you want to find out or reveal personal information about me. For the record I think Lord Glentoran was a minister in the Stormont Government some time in the sixties. I think he may have been instrumental in closing much of the North’s railways. So no, I didnt go to prep school with him, and if you really need to know who I went to school with I consider that creepy.

westtip

London Correspondent wrote: »

Why are you asking if I went to school with another poster on the board. It’s like you want to find out or reveal personal information about me. For the record I think Lord Glentoran was a minister in the Stormont Government some time in the sixties. I think he may have been instrumental in closing much of the North’s railways. So no, I didnt go to prep school with him, and if you really need to know who I went to school with I consider that creepy.

yep thought so, no sense of humour. I have no desire to know anymore about you personally, couldn't give a monkeys old chap, it was a jest, clearly not understood. Touch of spin there, I obviously bowled you the wrong 'un or was it a googly. Not sure never really mastered the art of leg spin bowling.

Hotblack Desiato

whisky_galore wrote: »

Isn't that all a greenway is, so people can have a nice day out? It's not a serious piece of transport infrastructure.

Pretty much (although a few commuters might use it.) But it's cheap and generates real economic benefits without an ongoing subsidy.

whisky_galore

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Pretty much (although a few commuters might use it.) But it's cheap and generates real economic benefits without an ongoing subsidy.

How cheap is "cheap"?
It still has to maintained, and that's not exactly free. People have got it into their heads that these things cost next to nothing.

[Deleted User]

whisky_galore wrote: »

How cheap is "cheap"?
It still has to maintained, and that's not exactly free. People have got it into their heads that these things cost next to nothing.

That's the thing, these greenways are generating so much additional revenue for local rural economies, creating jobs and businesses, that they effectively pay for themselves within a very short period.

As for ongoing maintenance, true there is a cost, but again its paid for many times over by the income generated.

Now let's do a quick comparison.

Athenry to Tuam is, ballpark, 100 million for the railway and would require massive subvention on an ongoing basis to the tune of millions a year.

A greenway from Athenry to Sligo would be, again ballpark, max 25 million, would pay for itself within 3-5 years and would have ongoing costs in relation to cleaning and maintenance. Given that it's for walkers and cyclists I don't foresee any issues with the surface for a LONG time so actual ongoing costs are minimal.

I know which one I'd vote for

London Correspondent

The Greenway campaign works on the basis that nothing will be changed regarding the local population over the next 40 years. But change is coming; the Ireland 2040 project forecasts an expanded population in the State and that extra population is intended to live in the larger towns and cities in the West for the most part.

To handle that extra population we will need to end the laissez-faire approach to planning we have had over the last 50 years and the impending carbon taxes we will have to pay due to our over dependence on private cars means that we can no longer just throw money at roads while deliberately starving the railway of funding.

Meanwhile a working planning system would take land around under used railway stations and zone it for development.

Land as we all know is at a premium and if we convert the WRC to a cycle track you can be sure it won’t be given up by the Greenway supporters. We have the proof in the UK that won’t happen no matter what assurances can be made at the time. Google Sustrans and Railways. DaCor and others then say “Ah, that won’t happen here”. But anyone can see by the continuing efforts of Westtip and others like the so-called economist Colm McCarthy to rubbish the railway that the promise to hand the line back simply won’t be kept. And to paraphrase DaCor, if you bring up Colm McCarthy as an expert on whether the line should be reopened, you’ve lost the argument.

The messages and tactics used on sites like the Facebook Quiet Man Greenway page aren’t lost on many senior politicians and Civil Seevants. Supporters there are frequently asked to “nip over” to opponents pages to make comments and get blocked. The West On Crack Facebook page proved the depths to which the Greenway supporters would go to rubbish their opponents and the aggressive tactics used to try and force the Barrow Blueway onto locals are not forgotten either. The Greenway supporters met their match with the formidable Olivia O’Leary.

Muckyboots

London Correspondent wrote: »

The messages and tactics used on sites like the Facebook Quiet Man Greenway page aren’t lost on many senior politicians and Civil Servants. .

If this is true, and I don't believe it is, they should grow up and do the job they are well paid to do and stop pissing about on social media looking for trolls under bridges.

devnull

Thread Reopened.

A reminder that civility is not just a desirable trait here, it is a pre-requisite to you being allowed to post.

- Moderator

westtip

whisky_galore wrote: »

How cheap is "cheap"?
It still has to maintained, and that's not exactly free. People have got it into their heads that these things cost next to nothing.

cheap enough to pay for itself in a handful of years, which is what has happened with all the other long distance greenways.

If you want to know about things that cost a lot and deliver nothing go to Kiltimagh.

westtip

London Correspondent wrote: »

Land as we all know is at a premium and if we convert the WRC to a cycle track you can be sure it won’t be given up by the Greenway supporters. O’Leary.

the Meehan Tully report commissioned and paid for by Sligo coco and which no member of either West on Track or the Sligo Greenway Co-op had anything to do with made this recommendation in 2016 when it was published:

These are the last two paragraphs of the report entitled "Sligo Western Rail Corridor: Assessment of Options" Page 42 the last comments in the entire report before appendices.

What about the potential reopening of the line?
Communication with Irish Rail and other greenway projects has repeatedly highlighted the absolute requirement of a clause in the greenway licence that requires the revocation of the licence if the line is reopened at any stage. This is strictly enforced and reemphasised by Irish Rail, who also require, where necessary, additional costs to be incurred in the development of the greenway to ensure future-proofing in the event of a reopening of the line.
What is the final recommendation?
The final recommendation is that Option Two, the single-use greenway should be pursued in the short-term, however Option One, the reopening of the line to rail traffic should be the longer-term objective.

I am not sure how many times it has to be said that Irish Rail don't lease the line to "the Greenway supporters" they will lease it to the county council with watertight clauses about the options to return a route to railway if needed.

Is it at all possible that the arguments about Comber Valley are dead in the water and people might actually grasp this fact?

Markcheese

The big money infrastructure investment in and around galway(rightly or wrongly), is in roads.
And tuam to galway has a brand new motorway,
If a fraction of the effort that seems to be being put in to blocking a greenway was put into pushing an excellent coach/ bus system from tuam to galway then public transport would a lot further along...
Potentially the line might be needed again, in 25 /30 years(and if s use it) , but only tuam to galway, the rest is dead...

Lord Glentoran

Markcheese wrote: »

The big money infrastructure investment in and around galway(rightly or wrongly), is in roads.
And tuam to galway has a brand new motorway,
If a fraction of the effort that seems to be being put in to blocking a greenway was put into pushing an excellent coach/ bus system from tuam to galway then public transport would a lot further along...
Potentially the line might be needed again, in 25 /30 years(and if s use it) , but only tuam to galway, the rest is dead...

How would an “excellent coach/bus system from tuam to galway” materialise? Given the bottlenecks I can’t see any option other than CPOs, demolitions and a quare amount of construction to make it so. It is curious how not so long ago we were told that the Mosherway would solve all Tuam-Galway issues. Now it hasn’t.

So where’s the bottomless pit of money now?

All we can do, it seems, is double down on roads, scattershot planning, and maintaining the status quo at all costs.

Is Galway the only city in Europe where instead of addressing Extinction Rebellion concerns, many seem happy to accelerate the destruction instead of halting it?

Isambard

the railway won't solve all the problems either. There are an awful lot of people who want to go elsewhere than where the railway would.AT least the Motorway forms an integral part of a road journey which can have limitless starting and ending points.

westtip

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

How would an “excellent coach/bus system from tuam to galway” materialise? Given the bottlenecks I can’t see any option other than CPOs, demolitions and a quare amount of construction to make it so. It is curious how not so long ago we were told that the Mosherway would solve all Tuam-Galway issues. Now it hasn’t.

So where’s the bottomless pit of money now?

All we can do, it seems, is double down on roads, scattershot planning, and maintaining the status quo at all costs.

Is Galway the only city in Europe where instead of addressing Extinction Rebellion concerns, many seem happy to accelerate the destruction instead of halting it?

Multi-storey car park and free parking at Oranmore, then load more people on the "Western Rail Corridor" from Oranmore to Galway, bump up the figures on the "Western Rail Corridor" adding in all those park and rides using the Dublin-Galway line (sorry Western Rail corridor to Galway), get those figures up to an unbelievable level so that a train can be built to Claremorris or even a rail air link to Knock that will allow Salmon Anglers get the train to Ballina

to quote Colman O'Ragilly of West on Track in this weeks western people

"A link to Ballina for those that want to fish the Moy or visit the Ceide Fields is another option"

Isn't he forgetting the Velorail will get in the way of the train.....or will it!!!:D

London Correspondent

Isn’t it strange that while the West On Track people can be discussed the Greenway campaigners can’t be discussed.

westtip

London Correspondent wrote: »

Isn’t it strange that while the West On Track people can be discussed the Greenway campaigners can’t be discussed.

The West on Track person is being quoted from a public newspaper, Mr O'Ragilly is not being discussed, he is not the subject of the comment, his quote is being used to illustrate the comment made . I am sure none of those people who support a greenway would have any objection to being quoted, but may as you say not like to be the subject of the discussion. This thread I believe is about discussing the Western Rail corridor/Rail Trail, not about discussing people involved in the campaign on either side.

Comprenez?

Lord Glentoran

westtip wrote: »

The West on Track person is being quoted from a public newspaper, Mr O'Ragilly is not being discussed, he is not the subject of the comment, his quote is being used to illustrate the comment made . I am sure none of those people who support a greenway would have any objection to being quoted, but may as you say not like to be the subject of the discussion. This thread I believe is about discussing the Western Rail corridor/Rail Trail, not about discussing people involved in the campaign on either side.

Comprenez?

It didnt stop you speculating about links between me and London Correspondent.
Je comprends ce que tu fais.

Markcheese

Trains are mass transport....
West on track sees the transport bit... Its just the masses to use it are missing... Its not the DART...

devnull

Stick to the topic, rather than focusing on each other.

- Moderator