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Fail quotas for driving test?

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  • 30-12-2018 1:33am
    #1
    Lalabanana
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭


    Figures for the pass rates of driving tests have been released recently. It really makes me wonder do the testers have a quota to fail and a quota to pass?

    I’ve seen comments on posts regarding these figures, and various people have said they have a quota to fail. Do they actually?? If so, that is just ridiculous and something really needs to be done about it. I did my test my first time last year, and i thought I had passed. I hadn’t even sat down before the instructor told me I had failed. I thought I drove really well but apparently I made too many minor mistakes. This makes me think- was I just part of the quota that he had to reach that day? I was the first test of the day. If it is true, it is really unfair. I know people who have passed their test and they drive extremely dangerously.

    I decided to practice driving lots the past year, until I felt that I was 200% ready for the test again. I booked it in September .. and still waiting for a date.

    Anyway- what are your opinions on the figures released by the rsa ? And do you think testers have quotas to fail/pass people?


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    #2
    notharrypotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭notharrypotter


    Lalabanana wrote: »

    Anyway- what are your opinions on the figures released by the rsa ? And do you think testers have quotas to fail/pass people?
    Regarding the last part the answer is resounding no.


    Most people seriously overestimate their own abilities at doing a given task.
    Driving is no different.


    The tester will assess your competence based on displayed behaviours during the test.


    Only completing the mandatory lessons for the vast majority of learner drivers is a guaranteed fail in the driving test.


    To be good at anything practice is needed raw talent will only take you so far.


    Currently teaching number 3.
    The mandatory lessons are done but they are a long way short of the level I believe they need to be certain of passing the test first time.


    I am NOT a driving instructor so have no skin in the game.
    I have practical experience with training and assessment in work.




    And an observation on the first part. You are quoting statistics in isolation.
    I have often wondered what is the reality in terms of actual hours of accompanied driving between the learners who passed and those who failed.


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    #3
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Provide the actual numbers OP.



    And no, I do not think the testers fail students because of some quota.


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    #4
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Lalabanana wrote: »
    ... . And do you think testers have quotas to fail/pass people?...
    No.

    This claptrap is trotted out regularly by bar stool idiots who feel disgruntled by anything in society as a mask for their own incompetence.

    The same people think that the Gardai have a quota of speeding motorists to apprehend, that parking wardens have a quota of tickets to issue, that tax inspectors have a quota of evaders to catch, the NCT people have a quota of vehicles to fail..........


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    #5
    koppy
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭koppy


    Disagree with people here...certain amount have to be failed. Don't care what anyone says they have to fail a certain amount


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    #6
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    No proof, just feelings eh?


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    #7
    koppy
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭koppy


    Yep no proof just a feeling ..any proof I'm wrong..eh?


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    #8
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    koppy wrote:
    Disagree with people here...certain amount have to be failed. Don't care what anyone says they have to fail a certain amount


    So you make a claim and when asked to back it up you resort to a school yard response, nice to see maturity in action.
    A friend of mine is a tester for the RSA, your claim is bs. If you meet the standard you pass, fall below the standard you fail...simple.


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    #9
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    koppy wrote: »
    Yep no proof just a feeling ..any proof I'm wrong..eh?
    Yes, and I have links to sources accepted by many
    http://learntodrivedublin.ie/irish_driving_test_myths_debunked_-_common_misunderstanding_about_the_rsa_practical_driving_tests_dublin.html
    Common misconceptions about the practical driving test
    Question 1: Does the driving test have a fail or pass quota every day/week/month?
    Answer 1: Absolutely not, the fact is if you’re driving is up to the standard required, you will pass your
    driving test.
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/myths-on-how-to-pass-the-driving-test-are-shattered-25937816.html
    One of the strangest myths dispelled last night by RAC Ireland's Robert Taylor, whose organisation also has the only driving simulator here designed for learners who are nervous or anxious, is that they are more likely to pass if they take the test early in the week, as a quota applies. Just like the myth that taking a test in December is more likely to end in failure because examiners want to 'bank' some work for January, it's completely untrue.

    Another widespread belief is that tests taken before noon or mid-afternoon will be quick because examiners want to get to their lunch or go home. Again there is no basis in fact.
    but I doubt any amount of fact is enough to dispel feelings


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    #10
    koppy
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭koppy


    Was asked if it was only a feeling or if I had proof...answered it was a feeling and had no proof. Answer was in d the same tone as d question


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    #11
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    koppy wrote: »
    Yep no proof just a feeling ..any proof I'm wrong..eh?

    That's not how evidence works.

    You're the one making the accusation.


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    #12
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    koppy wrote: »
    Was asked if it was only a feeling or if I had proof...answered it was a feeling and had no proof. Answer was in d the same tone as d question

    "d"≠ "the"


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    #13
    koppy
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭koppy


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    That's not how evidence works.

    You're the one making the accusation.

    ?


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    #14
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat


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    #15
    brightspark
    Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    Lalabanana wrote: »
    I thought I drove really well but apparently I made too many minor mistakes. This makes me think- was I just part of the quota that he had to reach that day? I was the first test of the day. If it is true, it is really unfair. I know people who have passed their test and they drive extremely dangerously.

    Too many minor mistakes? Were they the same type of mistake or various different ones? Perhaps you were unlucky with the traffic or else the tester noticed some issues anyway.

    The tester can only test your driving on the day, most people are rarely as careful driving afterwards so in some ways they have no choice but to penalise every minor mistake. The people you know who drive dangerously didn't do it during their test.

    I don't think there are any quotas, but there is an element of luck in what traffic, weather, etc you encounter.


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    #16
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Simple answer to why so many fail is they're absolutely sh1te at driving.

    Look at all those who change the minute they're in their car and become aggressive and just plain rude.


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    #17
    koppy
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭koppy


    biko wrote: »
    Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

    Other than expressing it how do I prove my opinion to u. Expressed my opinion as d poster asked. Not sure how I can prove that it is my opinion.??


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    #18
    koppy
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭koppy


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Simple answer to why so many fail is they're absolutely sh1te at driving.

    Look at all those who change the minute they're in their car and become aggressive and just plain rude.

    D amount of people that lose respect for an L plate is shocking..people still on d N plate driving on ure number, amazing how quick they forget how nerve wrecking learning to drive can be


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    #19
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    You need to display skill and competencies to show you are a careful driver.

    Just because one passes doesn't mean they now can let off as everyday is a learning day.

    Ones skills should be looked upon improvement of these and get better and safer.

    Testers are looking for someone that can be better and are actually doing what is asked of them.


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    #20
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    koppy wrote: »
    Other than expressing it how do I prove my opinion to u. Expressed my opinion as d poster asked. Not sure how I can prove that it is my opinion.??
    There is no need to prove your opinion. It's not an argument that you are right. Only facts are real.
    koppy wrote:
    D amount of people that lose respect for an L plate is shocking..people still on d N plate driving on ure number, amazing how quick they forget how nerve wrecking learning to drive can be
    Please stop with the text speak.


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    #21
    koppy
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭koppy


    Thank you..


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    #22
    Lalabanana
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Lalabanana


    brightspark wrote: »
    Too many minor mistakes? Were they the same type of mistake or various different ones? Perhaps you were unlucky with the traffic or else the tester noticed some issues anyway.

    The tester can only test your driving on the day, most people are rarely as careful driving afterwards so in some ways they have no choice but to penalise every minor mistake. The people you know who drive dangerously didn't do it during their test.

    I don't think there are any quotas, but there is an element of luck in what traffic, weather, etc you encounter.


    My minor mistakes were silly ones (on my behalf) but I think a lot of “minor” ie grade 2 marks, can be subjective or at the discretion of the tester. For example, one of my friends (who also did her first test in Wicklow) was given multiple grade 2 marks for driving too far to the right to avoide parked cars on the street. However, in my test I was marked for driving too close. If anyone has done their test in Wicklow, they would know that the majority of streets where cars are parked are small street, so you don’t have huge choice on road positioning when trying to avoid parked cars.

    When passing parked cards, I drove a doors width away from them (as told my by instructor, and using my own common sense). However, this was apparently still too close. My friend also drove a door width away- and was told she was too far. So I think a lot of it has to do with the testers personal driving preferences.

    Other grades I got were for gears (which, I accepted, because I do remember on one or two occasions when my gear changes weren’t smoothe, and my car revved a bit). Other grade 2 which I received was for observance. This, I felt was inaccurate. There was actually one point in the exam where I was trying right in an estate, and there was a pedestrian crossing the road I was turning in to. She was hestitating as she didn’t know if I was going to stop, so I stopped and let her pass. The tester ushered me on and looked at me like “what are you waiting for” he didn’t even see the pedestrian!!!

    Anyway, I feel like I Am definitely going to pass this time.. wish me luck!


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    #23
    Lalabanana
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Lalabanana


    Hi everyone,
    Thanks for your replies! I really hope that they don’t have a quota to fail, because it’s an awful waste of money. I don’t mind spending 85 euro to do a test and be marked accordingly, and I don’t want to be given a lisence if I am not good enough.

    That being said, I was talking to one of my dad friends today. He used to be a tester in one of the Dublin test centers. He claimed that he left that job to due “pressure to hit targets” - which meant he did in fact have targets to hit regarding both fail and pass rate.

    Now, my theory is that the results must resemble a bell curve (as is done by state examination). By this I mean, a minority of people fail with loads of marks, and a minority of people pass with flying colors- and then there is everyone in between. Maybe his “quota” was not to directly fail or pass people, but to get results which resemble a bell curve.

    He didn’t go into too much detail about it. And he mentioned nothing about a bell curve. But he did say that he was pressured to get certain results from tests. So maybe instead of a binary ‘pass’ and ‘fail’ rate- there is some sort of need to present results as a bell curve.

    It doesn’t sound that far fetched- they often change marking schemes in examinations (leaving cert, junior cert, degree ) to fit the bell curve.

    But at the end of the day, I think if you are a fully competent, safe and observant driver, you should pass your test. That’s what I’m hoping anyway!


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    #24
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Lalabanana wrote: »
    . He claimed that he left that job to due “pressure to hit targets” - which meant he did in fact have targets to hit regarding both fail and pass rate....
    He may have been required to conduct X amount of tests per month (nothing to do with pass or failing them).

    Your friend may have been a sub standard employee. Perhaps his absenteeism rate was high. His work may have been performance assessed and a target was set for him. This target may have been a 'normal' target in line with what was expected of other testers but he wasn't able to meet it hence the reason he left.

    Many people who quit jobs like to tell others that they were expected to do too much when often they were only required to do a normal day's work.


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    #25
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    With a system that has to be completed in order to obtain a lisence, there's no incentive for them to fail as there's 1000's of new eligible potential drivers every year. Without taking into account the varies categories for vehicle type.


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    #26
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    koppy wrote: »
    D amount of people that lose respect for an L plate is shocking..people still on d N plate driving on ure number, amazing how quick they forget how nerve wrecking learning to drive can be

    Didn't pass your english test either no ? was there a quota for that too.


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    #27
    koppy
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭koppy


    Passed driving test first time..
    H3 in English in d leaving..

    Not sure about quotas for d leaving. My opinion is there isn't. Only my opinion though


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    #28
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    koppy wrote: »
    Passed driving test first time..
    H3 in English in d leaving..

    d = the....


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    #29
    koppy
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭koppy


    You must have passed yours aswell..


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    #30
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    koppy wrote: »
    You must have passed yours aswell..

    Passed 1st time on 3 different categories.

    Done test in 2 different counties and didn't know test routes either.

    Done no lessons and 1st vehicle I drove was a David brown at 12.
    That was a once off and drove nothing else after that till 17 when drove cars off road rallying.


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    #31
    koppy
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭koppy


    Impressive stuff. You're English looks good aswell. We're all happy.


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