Fail quotas for driving test?

Lalabanana

Figures for the pass rates of driving tests have been released recently. It really makes me wonder do the testers have a quota to fail and a quota to pass?

I’ve seen comments on posts regarding these figures, and various people have said they have a quota to fail. Do they actually?? If so, that is just ridiculous and something really needs to be done about it. I did my test my first time last year, and i thought I had passed. I hadn’t even sat down before the instructor told me I had failed. I thought I drove really well but apparently I made too many minor mistakes. This makes me think- was I just part of the quota that he had to reach that day? I was the first test of the day. If it is true, it is really unfair. I know people who have passed their test and they drive extremely dangerously.

I decided to practice driving lots the past year, until I felt that I was 200% ready for the test again. I booked it in September .. and still waiting for a date.

Anyway- what are your opinions on the figures released by the rsa ? And do you think testers have quotas to fail/pass people?

notharrypotter

Lalabanana wrote: »

Anyway- what are your opinions on the figures released by the rsa ? And do you think testers have quotas to fail/pass people?

Regarding the last part the answer is resounding no.


Most people seriously overestimate their own abilities at doing a given task.
Driving is no different.


The tester will assess your competence based on displayed behaviours during the test.


Only completing the mandatory lessons for the vast majority of learner drivers is a guaranteed fail in the driving test.


To be good at anything practice is needed raw talent will only take you so far.


Currently teaching number 3.
The mandatory lessons are done but they are a long way short of the level I believe they need to be certain of passing the test first time.


I am NOT a driving instructor so have no skin in the game.
I have practical experience with training and assessment in work.




And an observation on the first part. You are quoting statistics in isolation.
I have often wondered what is the reality in terms of actual hours of accompanied driving between the learners who passed and those who failed.

biko

Provide the actual numbers OP.



And no, I do not think the testers fail students because of some quota.

Wishbone Ash

Lalabanana wrote: »

... . And do you think testers have quotas to fail/pass people?...

No.

This claptrap is trotted out regularly by bar stool idiots who feel disgruntled by anything in society as a mask for their own incompetence.

The same people think that the Gardai have a quota of speeding motorists to apprehend, that parking wardens have a quota of tickets to issue, that tax inspectors have a quota of evaders to catch, the NCT people have a quota of vehicles to fail..........

koppy

Disagree with people here...certain amount have to be failed. Don't care what anyone says they have to fail a certain amount

biko

No proof, just feelings eh?

koppy

Yep no proof just a feeling ..any proof I'm wrong..eh?

Plumbthedepths

koppy wrote:

Disagree with people here...certain amount have to be failed. Don't care what anyone says they have to fail a certain amount

So you make a claim and when asked to back it up you resort to a school yard response, nice to see maturity in action.
A friend of mine is a tester for the RSA, your claim is bs. If you meet the standard you pass, fall below the standard you fail...simple.

biko

koppy wrote: »

Yep no proof just a feeling ..any proof I'm wrong..eh?

Yes, and I have links to sources accepted by many
http://learntodrivedublin.ie/irish_driving_test_myths_debunked_-_common_misunderstanding_about_the_rsa_practical_driving_tests_dublin.html

Common misconceptions about the practical driving test
Question 1: Does the driving test have a fail or pass quota every day/week/month?
Answer 1: Absolutely not, the fact is if you’re driving is up to the standard required, you will pass your
driving test.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/myths-on-how-to-pass-the-driving-test-are-shattered-25937816.html

One of the strangest myths dispelled last night by RAC Ireland's Robert Taylor, whose organisation also has the only driving simulator here designed for learners who are nervous or anxious, is that they are more likely to pass if they take the test early in the week, as a quota applies. Just like the myth that taking a test in December is more likely to end in failure because examiners want to 'bank' some work for January, it's completely untrue.

Another widespread belief is that tests taken before noon or mid-afternoon will be quick because examiners want to get to their lunch or go home. Again there is no basis in fact.

but I doubt any amount of fact is enough to dispel feelings

koppy

Was asked if it was only a feeling or if I had proof...answered it was a feeling and had no proof. Answer was in d the same tone as d question

Guy:Incognito

koppy wrote: »

Yep no proof just a feeling ..any proof I'm wrong..eh?

That's not how evidence works.

You're the one making the accusation.

JCX BXC

koppy wrote: »

Was asked if it was only a feeling or if I had proof...answered it was a feeling and had no proof. Answer was in d the same tone as d question

"d"≠ "the"

koppy

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

That's not how evidence works.

You're the one making the accusation.

?

biko

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

brightspark

Lalabanana wrote: »

I thought I drove really well but apparently I made too many minor mistakes. This makes me think- was I just part of the quota that he had to reach that day? I was the first test of the day. If it is true, it is really unfair. I know people who have passed their test and they drive extremely dangerously.

Too many minor mistakes? Were they the same type of mistake or various different ones? Perhaps you were unlucky with the traffic or else the tester noticed some issues anyway.

The tester can only test your driving on the day, most people are rarely as careful driving afterwards so in some ways they have no choice but to penalise every minor mistake. The people you know who drive dangerously didn't do it during their test.

I don't think there are any quotas, but there is an element of luck in what traffic, weather, etc you encounter.

punisher5112

Simple answer to why so many fail is they're absolutely sh1te at driving.

Look at all those who change the minute they're in their car and become aggressive and just plain rude.

koppy

biko wrote: »

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

Other than expressing it how do I prove my opinion to u. Expressed my opinion as d poster asked. Not sure how I can prove that it is my opinion.??

koppy

punisher5112 wrote: »

Simple answer to why so many fail is they're absolutely sh1te at driving.

Look at all those who change the minute they're in their car and become aggressive and just plain rude.

D amount of people that lose respect for an L plate is shocking..people still on d N plate driving on ure number, amazing how quick they forget how nerve wrecking learning to drive can be

punisher5112

You need to display skill and competencies to show you are a careful driver.

Just because one passes doesn't mean they now can let off as everyday is a learning day.

Ones skills should be looked upon improvement of these and get better and safer.

Testers are looking for someone that can be better and are actually doing what is asked of them.

biko

koppy wrote: »

Other than expressing it how do I prove my opinion to u. Expressed my opinion as d poster asked. Not sure how I can prove that it is my opinion.??

There is no need to prove your opinion. It's not an argument that you are right. Only facts are real.

koppy wrote:

D amount of people that lose respect for an L plate is shocking..people still on d N plate driving on ure number, amazing how quick they forget how nerve wrecking learning to drive can be

Please stop with the text speak.

koppy

Thank you..

Lalabanana

brightspark wrote: »

Too many minor mistakes? Were they the same type of mistake or various different ones? Perhaps you were unlucky with the traffic or else the tester noticed some issues anyway.

The tester can only test your driving on the day, most people are rarely as careful driving afterwards so in some ways they have no choice but to penalise every minor mistake. The people you know who drive dangerously didn't do it during their test.

I don't think there are any quotas, but there is an element of luck in what traffic, weather, etc you encounter.

My minor mistakes were silly ones (on my behalf) but I think a lot of “minor” ie grade 2 marks, can be subjective or at the discretion of the tester. For example, one of my friends (who also did her first test in Wicklow) was given multiple grade 2 marks for driving too far to the right to avoide parked cars on the street. However, in my test I was marked for driving too close. If anyone has done their test in Wicklow, they would know that the majority of streets where cars are parked are small street, so you don’t have huge choice on road positioning when trying to avoid parked cars.

When passing parked cards, I drove a doors width away from them (as told my by instructor, and using my own common sense). However, this was apparently still too close. My friend also drove a door width away- and was told she was too far. So I think a lot of it has to do with the testers personal driving preferences.

Other grades I got were for gears (which, I accepted, because I do remember on one or two occasions when my gear changes weren’t smoothe, and my car revved a bit). Other grade 2 which I received was for observance. This, I felt was inaccurate. There was actually one point in the exam where I was trying right in an estate, and there was a pedestrian crossing the road I was turning in to. She was hestitating as she didn’t know if I was going to stop, so I stopped and let her pass. The tester ushered me on and looked at me like “what are you waiting for” he didn’t even see the pedestrian!!!

Anyway, I feel like I Am definitely going to pass this time.. wish me luck!

Lalabanana

Hi everyone,
Thanks for your replies! I really hope that they don’t have a quota to fail, because it’s an awful waste of money. I don’t mind spending 85 euro to do a test and be marked accordingly, and I don’t want to be given a lisence if I am not good enough.

That being said, I was talking to one of my dad friends today. He used to be a tester in one of the Dublin test centers. He claimed that he left that job to due “pressure to hit targets” - which meant he did in fact have targets to hit regarding both fail and pass rate.

Now, my theory is that the results must resemble a bell curve (as is done by state examination). By this I mean, a minority of people fail with loads of marks, and a minority of people pass with flying colors- and then there is everyone in between. Maybe his “quota” was not to directly fail or pass people, but to get results which resemble a bell curve.

He didn’t go into too much detail about it. And he mentioned nothing about a bell curve. But he did say that he was pressured to get certain results from tests. So maybe instead of a binary ‘pass’ and ‘fail’ rate- there is some sort of need to present results as a bell curve.

It doesn’t sound that far fetched- they often change marking schemes in examinations (leaving cert, junior cert, degree ) to fit the bell curve.

But at the end of the day, I think if you are a fully competent, safe and observant driver, you should pass your test. That’s what I’m hoping anyway!

Wishbone Ash

Lalabanana wrote: »

. He claimed that he left that job to due “pressure to hit targets” - which meant he did in fact have targets to hit regarding both fail and pass rate....

He may have been required to conduct X amount of tests per month (nothing to do with pass or failing them).

Your friend may have been a sub standard employee. Perhaps his absenteeism rate was high. His work may have been performance assessed and a target was set for him. This target may have been a 'normal' target in line with what was expected of other testers but he wasn't able to meet it hence the reason he left.

Many people who quit jobs like to tell others that they were expected to do too much when often they were only required to do a normal day's work.

Dravokivich

With a system that has to be completed in order to obtain a lisence, there's no incentive for them to fail as there's 1000's of new eligible potential drivers every year. Without taking into account the varies categories for vehicle type.

Eric Cartman

koppy wrote: »

D amount of people that lose respect for an L plate is shocking..people still on d N plate driving on ure number, amazing how quick they forget how nerve wrecking learning to drive can be

Didn't pass your english test either no ? was there a quota for that too.

koppy

Passed driving test first time..
H3 in English in d leaving..

Not sure about quotas for d leaving. My opinion is there isn't. Only my opinion though

punisher5112

koppy wrote: »

Passed driving test first time..
H3 in English in d leaving..

d = the....

koppy

You must have passed yours aswell..

punisher5112

koppy wrote: »

You must have passed yours aswell..

Passed 1st time on 3 different categories.

Done test in 2 different counties and didn't know test routes either.

Done no lessons and 1st vehicle I drove was a David brown at 12.
That was a once off and drove nothing else after that till 17 when drove cars off road rallying.

koppy

Impressive stuff. You're English looks good aswell. We're all happy.

Lalabanana

koppy wrote: »

D amount of people that lose respect for an L plate is shocking..people still on d N plate driving on ure number, amazing how quick they forget how nerve wrecking learning to drive can be

100% agree with you there. I remember the first time I went out on the road in my (then) new car- my beautiful bright blue punto lol. Up until then, I had been driving in my driving instructors brand new car.

I was obviously nervous driving the car for the first time, especially with the stiff gearbox, I had to ram the bloody thing in and out of gear lol. Anyway, I hopped in the car with my dad and drove around my local village. I was on a road turning left, and I cut out. Tried to take off again, cut out again.. and again.. and again.. the nerves got the best of me.

I could see this man in my rear view waving his hands and screaming at me from his car. He started beeping me, and the more he raged the more nervous I got and couldn’t take off. My dad was about to get out of the car to tell him to cop on, when he ‘undertook’ me on the left side. It put me off driving for weeks- but glad I’m over that stage now!!

I think people are very impatient with learner drivers, and a lot of people think learner drivers are people who drive over the speed limit, dangerously, blaring songs like a boy racer. It’s quite annoying, because there are some of us who are just normal people trying to pass the test because we’re sick of getting the bus!

mikemac2

Coulda woulda shoulda passed but you didn’t.

Does the girl wear the short skirt yes or no, is the tester grumpy Monday morning or in a rush to finish your test Friday evening, do results change at month end bla bla I heard the same stories twenty years ago

You failed but you’ve learned a lot so you didnt really fail

Yes Wicklow is tricky but you’ll do better next time

Lalabanana

mikemac2 wrote: »

Coulda woulda shoulda passed but you didn’t.

Does the girl wear the short skirt yes or no, is the tester grumpy Monday morning or in a rush to finish your test Friday evening, do results change at month end bla bla I heard the same stories twenty years ago

You failed but you’ve learned a lot so you didnt really fail

Yes Wicklow is tricky but you’ll do better next time

Never said I should have passed. I said IF I failed due to a quota- that would be unfair, as I thought I drove fine. But, maybe if the short skirt trick works- I’ll try that!

DaveyDave

The five younger people (25-35) I know who passed first time are competent drivers. They've made a mistake here and there as we all do but they know their place on the road, they know their cars and their own abilities. I wouldn't doubt their abilities in the wet, dark, fog etc.

The only people I'm not comfortable with are two people aged 50+ who are lacking a lot of basic awareness and the one person who failed, four times, who eventually passed. When I'm in the car with that person it feels like they aren't entirely in control, as if they're pressing a pedal and it just happens to work.

The one who failed had a lot to say about it each time. I had to correct them recently about how a driver on a slip road doesn't have right of way to just move over into traffic on a dual carriageway/motorway.

Also look at the amount of no shows at the driving test center, every second name doesn't show up because they failed their theory and that's the easy part.

Lalabanana

DaveyDave wrote: »

The five younger people (25-35) I know who passed first time are competent drivers. They've made a mistake here and there as we all do but they know their place on the road, they know their cars and their own abilities. I wouldn't doubt their abilities in the wet, dark, fog etc.

The only people I'm not comfortable with are two people aged 50+ who are lacking a lot of basic awareness and the one person who failed, four times, who eventually passed. When I'm in the car with that person it feels like they aren't entirely in control, as if they're pressing a pedal and it just happens to work.

The one who failed had a lot to say about it each time. I had to correct them recently about how a driver on a slip road doesn't have right of way to just move over into traffic on a dual carriageway/motorway.

I think the earlier you learn to drive the better. Same as riding a bike. People seem to pick things up at a younger age, and the older you get the slower you become at learning new skills

MascotDec85

No. A combination of poor driving, nerves, poor preparation or plain old bad driving is to blame.

People need to take more responsibility for themselves.

I’ve recently seen an increase in people contacting me a week before their test looking to “hire” the car for test without wanting to do any more preparation.

punisher5112

MascotDec85 wrote: »

No. A combination of poor driving, nerves, poor preparation or plain old bad driving is to blame.

People need to take more responsibility for themselves.

I’ve recently seen an increase in people contacting me a week before their test looking to “hire” the car for test without wanting to do any more preparation.

Great for business if they fail though as your services will be needed again along with car rental for test.....

Win for you.

_Brian

I can’t see a quota system in something like this.

Sooner or later someone wouldn’t let it slip and there would be a serious uproar.

Plus, 50% fail rate sounds accurate when you drive abkut and see the standard of driving, I’d be thinking 50% woukjdnt pass any sort of test.

I’m 46, passed my test when I was 17 (first attempt). I’m applying for my BE in the new year and I’ll be honest in saying I will be nervous about the smalller stuff on the test rather than the trailer.

Reati

koppy wrote: »

You're English looks good aswell.

Your English looks good as well.

You're = You are English looks good aswell.
Aswell isn't a word. It's "as well".

MascotDec85

punisher5112 wrote: »

Great for business if they fail though as your services will be needed again along with car rental for test.....

Win for you.

Tbh mate that outlook is kinda short-sighted. A driving instructor benefits much more by people properly preparing, passing first time and spreading the word by way of recommendations. Trouble is, pupils often don’t give us much of a chance and we end up fire fighting.
We’re there to train people to drive safely. If they do that, they should pass....if they control their nerves. More often than not we face the attitude that people simply want to pass the test, unfortunately.

matrim

DaveyDave wrote: »

Also look at the amount of no shows at the driving test center, every second name doesn't show up because they failed their theory and that's the easy part.

You can't book your test until you do your 12 lessons and you can't do the lessons until you pass your theory test. No shows at the test center have nothing to do with failing the theory test.

MascotDec85

matrim wrote: »

You can't book your test until you do your 12 lessons and you can't do the lessons until you pass your theory test. No shows at the test center have nothing to do with failing the theory test.

You’re right regarding the theory part but just to be clear, you can book your test before you do your 12 lessons, you just can’t get a date until after you’ve finished them.

koppy

Reati wrote: »

Your English looks good as well.

You're = You are English looks good aswell.
Aswell isn't a word. It's "as well".

Same as me driving...good enough to pass..or maybe test sat on right day at right time.

DaveyDave

matrim wrote: »

You can't book your test until you do your 12 lessons and you can't do the lessons until you pass your theory test. No shows at the test center have nothing to do with failing the theory test.

I stand corrected. I must have been thinking of the license centre. Lots of no shows there too. Either way, people need to own up to not being very good.

I hear a good few people having no issues then other people failing 4-5 times. If there was a quota to fail people I don't think as many people would be passing first time.

Lalabanana

Well, I just got an email thismorning with my test date. Its next week. wish me luck!!

punisher5112

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Tbh mate that outlook is kinda short-sighted. A driving instructor benefits much more by people properly preparing, passing first time and spreading the word by way of recommendations. Trouble is, pupils often don’t give us much of a chance and we end up fire fighting.
We’re there to train people to drive safely. If they do that, they should pass....if they control their nerves. More often than not we face the attitude that people simply want to pass the test, unfortunately.

How is it I wasn't saying it's ideal but from a business side it's great unless they bad mouth you or change instructors.

People can be great at driving and if taught well should do fine but as you even say nerves can play a huge part.

I genuinely feel bad for those who fail and are good.

Happened one of the sisters and she is extremely safe where as the other passed and she is a danger to others.

punisher5112

Lalabanana wrote: »

Well, I just got an email thismorning with my test date. Its next week. wish me luck!!

Good luck. New year , new licence....

Isambard

i can't for the life of me see what a quota would achieve. There's no shortage of candidates

Lalabanana

Hi all. Passed my test today. Just wondering - if I send for my lisence can I drive unaccompanied while waiting for it to arrive?

punisher5112

Lalabanana wrote: »

Hi all. Passed my test today. Just wondering - if I send for my lisence can I drive unaccompanied while waiting for it to arrive?

You will have a receipt from ndls..

You can chance it but you could well be done.

Garda discretion.

Quota must have been filled.