Mens Rights Thread

Woodward · 20-06-2012 11:24am

py2006 wrote: »

I think this thread is a perfect example of the difficulties of trying to start a discussion on male issues and rights.

True but it could be worse. It hasnt denigrated into the oppression olympics where each gender tries to claim they are the most oppressed yet.

James Jones · 20-06-2012 11:43am

Discrimination against men can actually be challenged as can be seen HERE.
However, sometimes it seems it is acceptable as can be see from the complaint HERE on the article HERE.

py2006 · 20-06-2012 11:47am

Society and most probably the law may discriminate against men when it comes to domestic abuse, particularly physical abuse.

Society will respond to a male who claims to have been abused physically with:

a) Grow a pair
b) hahahahhahaha
c) Sure your bigger than her.

The law, I'm sure, would largely laugh in the face of any man who calls the guards to say he has been assaulted by a woman.

James Jones · 20-06-2012 12:00pm

py2006 wrote: »

Society and most probably the law may discriminate against men when it comes to domestic abuse, particularly physical abuse.

Society will respond to a male who claims to have been abused physically with:

a) Grow a pair
b) hahahahhahaha
c) Sure your bigger than her.

The law, I'm sure, would largely laugh in the face of any man who calls the guards to say he has been assaulted by a woman.

It's not just the law that laughs. See letter in the Independent yesterday HERE.

Do any of you know the definition of Gender Equality? According to the Dept. of Justice and Equality:

Definition

Gender equality is achieved when women and men enjoy the same rights and opportunities across all sectors of society, including economic participation and decision-making, and when the different behaviours, aspirations and needs of women and men are equally valued and favoured.

However,

The Gender Equality Division has responsibility for:
fostering the achievement of true equality between women and men in Ireland
implementing specific commitments in the Programme for Government on gender equality
overseeing implementation of the National Women’s Strategy
monitoring national and international commitments on gender equality
reporting on gender equality issues for which other Government departments and State agencies are responsible

Government Policy Overview

Government policy in this area includes:
the provision of a legal framework that provides for equal treatment of women and men
the National Women’s Strategy 2007-2016, which is the Government’s statement of priorities in relation to the advancement of women in Irish society.
a programme of positive action measures, including the Equality for Women Measure 2008-2013, to enhance women’s skills and to foster their engagement in areas of Irish society and decision-making where they are under-represented.

Piliger · 20-06-2012 2:06pm

py2006 wrote: »

I think this thread is a perfect example of the difficulties of trying to start a discussion on male issues and rights.

I couldn't agree more.

Us men are in general very passive when it comes to recognising that we need to stand up for ourselves against the women's movement. And the women's movement have a long and well oiled machinery for responding to and aggressively denouncing any effort to do so. It's hardly surprising I guess, after a hundred years of campaigning.

The campaigns that feminist organisation have successfully carried through against men's rights to access their children, have equal paternity leave, for anti democratic quotas, and so many other issues are examples in point. The pernicious campaigns, especially in recent years, to limit the rights of men accused of rape and their public denouncements, across the board, of all men who stand accused have shown how out of control a feminist agenda becomes when there is no balancing response. This has now spread to the demonisation of all men as latent abusers. Ask any group of men about their experience of walking in parks or in schools or in any arena that involves young children and you will find ghastly stories of being made to feel guilty or suspicious.
Their blanket support for women who have been found to have lied is shameful but hardly surprising considering their views that women should not be sent to prison, only those nasty men, who are after all the cause of all female criminality.

The media has totally and thoroughly adopted a feminist agenda and have been completely cowed when it comes to any criticism. Read the newspapers any week and they are chock full of anti male, misandrous writings by feminist writers who have carte blanche to attack men and everything they represent. No balancing content ever appears and anyone who attempts to response is immediately targeted as misogynistic.

yawha · 20-06-2012 3:44pm

py2006 wrote: »

I think this thread is a perfect example of the difficulties of trying to start a discussion on male issues and rights.

How so?

yawha · 20-06-2012 3:46pm

Piliger wrote: »

The campaigns that feminist organisation have successfully carried through against men's rights to access their children, have equal paternity leave, for anti democratic quotas, and so many other issues are examples in point. The pernicious campaigns, especially in recent years, to limit the rights of men accused of rape and their public denouncements, across the board, of all men who stand accused have shown how out of control a feminist agenda becomes when there is no balancing response. This has now spread to the demonisation of all men as latent abusers. Ask any group of men about their experience of walking in parks or in schools or in any arena that involves young children and you will find ghastly stories of being made to feel guilty or suspicious.
Their blanket support for women who have been found to have lied is shameful but hardly surprising considering their views that women should not be sent to prison, only those nasty men, who are after all the cause of all female criminality.

The media has totally and thoroughly adopted a feminist agenda and have been completely cowed when it comes to any criticism. Read the newspapers any week and they are chock full of anti male, misandrous writings by feminist writers who have carte blanche to attack men and everything they represent. No balancing content ever appears and anyone who attempts to response is immediately targeted as misogynistic.

Which organisations? Which campaigns? Which writers? Which articles?

iptba · 20-06-2012 4:46pm

James Jones wrote: »

Discrimination against men can actually be challenged as can be seen HERE.

Well done to who ever made that complaint. I have heard people gripe before with regard to how some children's charities, as well as some other charities, present men as the problem rather than a more nuanced approach.

iptba · 20-06-2012 4:57pm

Piliger wrote: »

I couldn't agree more.

Us men are in general very passive when it comes to recognising that we need to stand up for ourselves against the women's movement. And the women's movement have a long and well oiled machinery for responding to and aggressively denouncing any effort to do so. It's hardly surprising I guess, after a hundred years of campaigning.

The campaigns that feminist organisation have successfully carried through against men's rights to access their children, have equal paternity leave, for anti democratic quotas, and so many other issues are examples in point. The pernicious campaigns, especially in recent years, to limit the rights of men accused of rape and their public denouncements, across the board, of all men who stand accused have shown how out of control a feminist agenda becomes when there is no balancing response. This has now spread to the demonisation of all men as latent abusers. Ask any group of men about their experience of walking in parks or in schools or in any arena that involves young children and you will find ghastly stories of being made to feel guilty or suspicious.

Recent example:

TUESDAY, JUNE 05, 2012

Doctor, 73, 'kicked out of bookstore for being alone in children's section'

Barnes & Noble has apologised to a 73-year-old man who was kicked out of one of its stores for browsing the children's section on his own.

Dr. Omar Amin, from Scottsdale, Arizona, said he was asked to leave after a female shopper told a worker she felt uneasy about his presence.

But the man, who is a world-renowned researcher of infectious diseases, said he was buying books for his two grandchildren.

'This is an insult to all men not just to me,' Amin told Azfamily.com.

'I left the store. I was upset like hell because I've been so insulted and humiliated in public for the charge of being a man.'

http://hereticalsex.blogspot.ie/2012/06/doctor-73-kicked-out-of-bookstore-for.html

sharper · 20-06-2012 6:47pm

I have precisely zero interest in any type of "men's rights" movement and the notion of some type of "masculine" group makes me feel quite uneasy.

Nor do I have any interest in battling or counter-weighting feminists.

However, equal right does interest me a lot and so does a more balanced "equal rights" movement composed of both and women.

iptba · 20-06-2012 7:38pm

sharper wrote: »

the notion of some type of "masculine" group makes me feel quite uneasy.

Not sure who was talking about a "masculine" group. Some were talking about a masculist group: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism

Aside: my recollection is that the masculism page on wiki used to have a longer list of grievances. I wonder what happened there. The Men's rights wiki now looks the more interesting/thorough page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights

ETA: neither of them now discuss the prison rape issue.

ETA: here's what the page looked like last year: http://web.archive.org/web/20110715170309/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism

Woodward · 20-06-2012 8:29pm

sharper wrote: »

I have precisely zero interest in any type of "men's rights" movement and the notion of some type of "masculine" group makes me feel quite uneasy.

Nor do I have any interest in battling or counter-weighting feminists.

However, equal right does interest me a lot and so does a more balanced "equal rights" movement composed of both and women.

The masculinists are primarily concerned with deconstructing male stereotypes. They object to the traditional male gender role and stereotype

EDIT: The Mens Rights Movement has many women, one of our most respected bloggers is a youtuber called GirlWritesWhat. We do not push for special treatment or gender specific laws, just equal treatment in law and changing the man bad/woman good stereotype which is so prevalent

bee_keeper · 25-06-2012 12:48pm

iptba wrote: »

Women and feminists are in the driving seat in terms of how gender issues and gender politics are presented in education, and in terms of research that goes on in the gender field.

they also own the debate when it comes to the media , bar john watters ( who is too ecentric to be taken seriously ) , i cant think of one journalist in this country who dares to question the feminist gospel

bee_keeper · 25-06-2012 12:50pm

yawha wrote: »

Which organisations? Which campaigns? Which writers? Which articles?

julie bindel has made a career out of spewing bile against men

our version of her would be susan mckay

Madam_X · 25-06-2012 1:00pm

Kevin Myers questions feminism. Actually I've seen a number of people throughout the Independent newspapers group do so.

And Julie Bindle attacks women too.

It's easy to name-check crazies. McKay is nowhere near as bad as Bindle.

bee_keeper · 25-06-2012 1:03pm

Onixx wrote: »

Kevin Myers questions feminism. Actually I've seen a number of people throughout the Independent newspapers group do so.

And Julie Bindle attacks women too.

It's easy to name-check crazies. McKay is nowhere near as bad as Bindle.

bindel only attacks conservative women who dont fall into line with her own world view , ghastly woman

kevin myers writes about issues other than feminism , bindel and mckay do not in the vast majority of cases and besides , myers is almost universally demonised for doing so while bindel is a heroine amongst the sisterhood

Madam_X · 25-06-2012 1:09pm

You don't have to be conservative to not fall into line with her worldview - any rational woman would think she's a crackpot.
Myers discusses other issues - what's the relevance of that? You said only Waters questions feminism - you're incorrect, myers does too. He is not almost universally demonised just because he's unpopular (he's also well liked) and who's Bindle a heroine to? Other nut-jobs no doubt. Unless you think all feminists or feminist-leaning or non traditional women are crackpots...?

I mostly associate McKay with writings about child abuse tbh.

bee_keeper · 25-06-2012 1:41pm

Onixx wrote: »

You don't have to be conservative to not fall into line with her worldview - any rational woman would think she's a crackpot.
Myers discusses other issues - what's the relevance of that? You said only Waters questions feminism - you're incorrect, myers does too. He is not almost universally demonised just because he's unpopular (he's also well liked) and who's Bindle a heroine to? Other nut-jobs no doubt. Unless you think all feminists or feminist-leaning or non traditional women are crackpots...?

I mostly associate McKay with writings about child abuse tbh.

the feminist movement has given cover and legitimacy to deeply unpleasant creatures like bindel , a female bully can get away with any amount of carnage by labelling herself a feminist , ive witnessed it myself , ive seen men brought to breaking point , when they finally decided to fight back , they were branded mysoginists who had a problem with women

id liken it to israeli agression , any criticism is dismissed as anti semetism

Madam_X · 25-06-2012 1:57pm

A woman who calls herself a feminist is absolutely despised in fairness. There are tit for tats being offered here (myself no exception) and the reality is somewhere in the middle.

christmas2012 · 25-06-2012 2:00pm

fathers rights aside,dont men have all the rights,which is why mens rights movements were never set up in the first place..

Woodward · 25-06-2012 2:15pm

christmas2012 wrote: »

fathers rights aside,dont men have all the rights,which is why mens rights movements were never set up in the first place..

They were set up, they just didnt receive as much support at a governmental level as the feminist groups.

As for rights there are many areas where men are discriminated against such as reproductive rights, divorce settlements, domestic violence laws, and sexual harassment laws, health care, genital integrity and more

bee_keeper · 25-06-2012 2:20pm

Onixx wrote: »

A woman who calls herself a feminist is absolutely despised in fairness. There are tit for tats being offered here (myself no exception) and the reality is somewhere in the middle.

despised where ?

from what i can see , any woman who publically identifys as a feminist can be pretty sure to be handled with kid gloves

iptba · 25-06-2012 2:48pm

bee_keeper wrote: »

they also own the debate when it comes to the media , bar john watters ( who is too ecentric to be taken seriously ) , i cant think of one journalist in this country who dares to question the feminist gospel

I think you're right about the media in general.

Except I do think Kevin Myers and Ian O'Doherty in the Irish Independent, should be counted among the people who challenge it, like Onixx suggested.

But RTE, for example, generally give feminists an easy ride.

bee_keeper · 25-06-2012 3:51pm

iptba wrote: »

I think you're right about the media in general.

Except I do think Kevin Myers and Ian O'Doherty in the Irish Independent, should be counted among the people who challenge it, like Onixx suggested.

But RTE, for example, generally give feminists an easy ride.

RTE has always been ran by liberals

ian o doherty is a prat who few have anytime for

Woodward · 25-06-2012 3:55pm

bee_keeper wrote: »

RTE has always been ran by liberals

I would disagree here. It has always seemed to me to be very conservative, pro church, anti-sex etc...

Madam_X · 25-06-2012 4:31pm

It doesn't matter what you think of O'Doherty - you said people in the media here don't challenge feminism. He does. Plus he likes to think he's anti liberal for a lot of issues.

Feminists are of course on the receiving end of absolute vitriol - much directed at their appearance, sexuality, and their assumed position as man-haters and wack-jobs (when they're likely to be neither).

But the issue of men's rights is a very valid one of course - however, as long as it is hijacked by people not actually presenting the issues in themselves and suggesting ways to challenge them, but instead using them as a platform to blame all feminists, take pot-shots as to how it would be this and this if you reversed the genders (making women immediately feel a degree of hostility) and even saying women overall have it better, not much progress will be made. If you'd like women to get involved and to disprove the theories that they're only out for themselves (not true) stop making them feel like they have to defend themselves.

py2006 · 25-06-2012 5:54pm

There are some very dubious and deluded characters who refer to themselves as feminists, when in reality they are clueless as to what the movement is about. They are not doing themselves nor the feminist movement any favours. It is for that reason that a lot of men (and women)are very wary of a woman who will announce herself as a feminist.

In my own experience, there is a lot of double standards when this whole issue is discussed and that is why you will hear a lot of men saying, "if the genders were reversed...".

bee_keeper · 25-06-2012 6:53pm

Woodward wrote: »

I would disagree here. It has always seemed to me to be very conservative, pro church, anti-sex etc...

your joking , a report came out last week which showed how hundred of children had died in the care of the HSE this past number of years , the story got the bare minimum of coverage

contrast this with the endless discussion over church abuse ( not defending church abuse btw )

priests = fair game
social workers = liberal sacred cows

RTE supports the labour party , is extremley pro public sector , the liberal agenda in general , europe , multiculturalism and the democrats in the usa

Madam_X · 25-06-2012 8:10pm

A suspicion that the editorial meetings at RTE comprise "Go easy on social workers, go to town on priests" is downright paranoia. And "liberal" as a negative is downright... what rednecks in the deep south say. Liberal agenda - what the hell is that?
RTE seems neither liberal nor conservative IMO. Still got the angelus and religious (catholic leaning) programmes. Used to be heavily unionised all right but those days are over.

Py, wariness of all feminism across the board is just ignorance and laziness. There are numerous types of feminism and degrees of militancy. It's a dirty word now that women can feel compelled to apologise for - "I'm no feminist", like "I'm no atheist"... the way some like to depict all atheists as arrogant Dawkins types.

bee_keeper · 25-06-2012 8:28pm

Onixx wrote: »

A suspicion that the editorial meetings at RTE comprise "Go easy on social workers, go to town on priests" is downright paranoia. And "liberal" as a negative is downright... what rednecks in the deep south say. Liberal agenda - what the hell is that?
RTE seems neither liberal nor conservative IMO. Still got the angelus and religious (catholic leaning) programmes. Used to be heavily unionised all right but those days are over.

Py, wariness of all feminism across the board is just ignorance and laziness. There are numerous types of feminism and degrees of militancy. It's a dirty word now that women can feel compelled to apologise for - "I'm no feminist", like "I'm no atheist"... the way some like to depict all atheists as arrogant Dawkins types.

you didnt think the story about children dieing in the care of the HSE was sligtlty undercovered

PrincessLola · 28-06-2012 7:28am

py2006 wrote: »

In my own experience, there is a lot of double standards when this whole issue is discussed and that is why you will hear a lot of men saying, "if the genders were reversed...".

Discrimination and gender relations are not two even sides of the same coin you realize, its not as simple as 'if genders were reversed', it never will be.
You have to take into account issues like privilege and history.
People who seriously think men are represented poorly in tv and movies need to have along hard think to themselves. Outside of idiotic 90s sitcoms, it really doesn't hold up to much scrutiny.

yawha · 28-06-2012 8:21pm

PrincessLola wrote: »

Discrimination and gender relations are not two even sides of the same coin you realize, its not as simple as 'if genders were reversed', it never will be.
You have to take into account issues like privilege and history.
People who seriously think men are represented poorly in tv and movies need to have along hard think to themselves. Outside of idiotic 90s sitcoms, it really doesn't hold up to much scrutiny.

I find a lot of the time that "if the genders were reversed" is used lazily and without much thought.

I mean, say a woman rapes a man and he gets ridiculed since society doesn't fully accept female on male rape. This doesn't mean that "if the genders were reversed", that a male perpetrator would be locked up for years and the victim sympathized with by all. More likely her entire sexual history would be brought up in court, and the perp acquitted because she was asking for it, if she even reported it in the first place.

And a lot of the time when it comes to presentation of dumb or sexually objectified men it's pure speculation as to what people's reaction might be to "if the genders were reversed". A lot of the time when I hear that reaction I can think of numerous examples where the genders are reversed and there's not nearly the reaction that some would lead you to believe there would be.

iptba · 28-06-2012 10:48pm

PrincessLola wrote: »

Discrimination and gender relations are not two even sides of the same coin you realize, its not as simple as 'if genders were reversed', it never will be.
You have to take into account issues like privilege and history.

Bringing in things like that makes things quite subjective. There's been a lot of human history and a lot of ways it can be interpreted! And even privilege isn't as straightforward as some might make out (how about that nice privilege not to have to do military service or be conscripted that has existed almost universally in the past and isn't that much different now).

Bringing history into it may lead to discrimination being justified as some other group were discriminated against in the past. The problem with this is that it can lead to a cycle of tit-for-tats.

PrincessLola wrote: »

People who seriously think men are represented poorly in tv and movies need to have along hard think to themselves. Outside of idiotic 90s sitcoms, it really doesn't hold up to much scrutiny.

Really? Trying to analyse how a gender in portrayed in the media is quite a big area, as one can see from all the work in the gender field. One counterexample that was mentioned on another thread on tGC forum in the last few days was domestic violence and how it invariably has in the past and still currently follows the model of male perpetrator/female victim.

Monty Burnz · 28-06-2012 10:55pm

yawha wrote: »

More likely her entire sexual history would be brought up in court, and the perp acquitted because she was asking for it, if she even reported it in the first place.

This used to happen 30 years ago. Not so much today. And don't alleged victims have anonymity now too?

yawha · 28-06-2012 11:04pm

Um, yes it indeed does happen today.

You're saying the majority of female rape victims report their rapes, that male rapists get prosecuted often and there is no victim blaming or reference to a woman's sexual history in court?

Victims have anonymity from the general public AFAIK, not sure what that has to do with anything.

Monty Burnz · 28-06-2012 11:06pm

yawha wrote: »

Um, yes it indeed does happen today.

You're saying the majority of female rape victims report their rapes, that male rapists get prosecuted often and there is no victim blaming or reference to a woman's sexual history in court?

Can you please give some examples from some recent court cases? It should be pretty easy if your claim is correct.

yawha wrote: »

Victims have anonymity from the general public AFAIK, not sure what that has to do with anything.

It means that the alleged victim is offered a protection that they did not receive in the past.

iptba · 28-06-2012 11:25pm

Regarding rape: I remember reading that although rates of conviction for rape can look low, they aren't particularly low when one compares them to lots of other crimes.

twinQuins · 29-06-2012 12:14am

PrincessLola wrote: »

[...] privilege and history [...]

You mean generalisations that suit your argument. I'm growing to hate this "privelege" nonsense as it ignores individual circumstances.

It's convenient to talk about "male privelege" as if every man is treated the same and will always, always be better off than a woman. No. Bull****. Human society is far more nuanced than that.

Yes, I'm having a rant here, no I don't care, I'm sick of holding my tongue to keep the peace.

Piliger · 29-06-2012 12:15pm

PrincessLola wrote: »

People who seriously think men are represented poorly in tv and movies need to have along hard think to themselves. Outside of idiotic 90s sitcoms, it really doesn't hold up to much scrutiny.

Well clearly you don't spend much time watching tv. Either that or you just wilfully ignore what you don't want to see.

py2006 · 29-06-2012 9:08pm

Onixx wrote: »

Py, wariness of all feminism across the board is just ignorance and laziness.

That is not what I said.

I am not wary of the feminist movement. I am wary of a woman who declares herself a feminist especially when it is out of context of a discussion or whatever. Not that it happens a lot.

I am neither ignorant or lazy thank you very much.

Pawwed Rig · 01-07-2012 2:36pm

christmas2012 wrote: »

fathers rights aside,dont men have all the rights,which is why mens rights movements were never set up in the first place..

Any time someone tries to bring up male issues they tend to be ridiculed, ignored or even censored. There is another thread in TGC regarding someone who was offended by the Donedeal add. While there were some intelligent responses the thrust of the thread was 'sure it is only a laugh, get over it and don't take yourself so seriously'.

There was another thread a while back about how men are discriminated against (I may fall foul of the mods for this one but here goes). It was closed down because of 1 or 2 posts*. It was a very informative thread that alot of people on TGC had contributed to and had some very good passionate debate directly relating to the issues men have in society. I think the closure of this thread is indicative of the opinion in society in general who do not want to recognise an issue in this regard.

*It has since been reopened in the humanities forum which is a crying shame imho as TGC is the place for it as it is probably the most relevant thread I have seen on TGC since joining boards.

Piliger · 01-07-2012 6:52pm

I agree fully. And what is it with Humanities ? Who on earth would go over there ????

Woodward · 01-07-2012 9:58pm

Piliger wrote: »

I agree fully. And what is it with Humanities ? Who on earth would go over there ????

I think its because Feminist Theory Womens Studies Gender Studies is part of the humanities faculty

Piliger · 01-07-2012 11:02pm

Woodward wrote: »

I think its because Feminist Theory Womens Studies Gender Studies is part of the humanities faculty

Sheeesh ... I knew I shouldn't have asked :rolleyes:

iptba · 10-07-2012 12:46am

Thought this was interesting. And could catch on.

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/07/09/law-professor-proposes-preglimony

Law Professor Proposes “Preglimony”
by W.F. PRICE on JULY 9, 2012

In a bid to further expand wealth transfer from males to females, Shari Motri, a professor at the University of Richmond, suggests that men should now be forced to pay for pregnancy expenses.

[..]

Interestingly, she wants men to pay this even if women get an abortion, which seems to suggest that men could be forced to pay to abort their own children, even if they don’t want to.

Woodward · 10-07-2012 9:34am

iptba wrote: »

Thought this was interesting. And could catch on.

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/07/09/law-professor-proposes-preglimony

As far as I know there are some states in the US which have something similar to this where they have to pay child support during the pregnancy

Feathers · 10-07-2012 11:50pm

Woodward wrote: »

yawha wrote: »

I firmly believe that the social enforcement of the "manly" stereotype is the root cause of a lot of the injustices that men face, yet I rarely see it focused on all that much when I read men's rights discussions.

Yea many MRA's tend to focus on bitching about feminism rather than gender roles. Masculinism tends to focus more on gender roles than the mainstream MRM

Is that not a case though if starting with what is most realistic to change: a focus on equality of opportunity rather than equality of outcome.
You can lobby and get paternity leave legislation changed, which may affect society's longer-term attitudes to men as care-givers. Much mire likely than having an awareness campaign or similar that would only get scorn via the tabloids.

christmas2012 wrote: »

fathers rights aside,dont men have all the rights,which is why mens rights movements were never set up in the first place..

Parental rights included, don't women have all the rights?

The Corinthian · 11-07-2012 4:18pm

iptba wrote: »

Thought this was interesting. And could catch on.

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/07/09/law-professor-proposes-preglimony

In Ireland a father may be directed to pay up to €2,000 towards maternity expenses, in addition to child maintenance.

Woodward · 11-07-2012 4:27pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

In Ireland a father may be directed to pay up to €2,000 towards maternity expenses, in addition to child maintenance.

Does paternity have to be determined by a test or is it on the word of the mother?

The Corinthian · 11-07-2012 4:37pm

Woodward wrote: »

Does paternity have to be determined by a test or is it on the word of the mother?

Naturally it can be contested on the basis of paternity.

If paternity is contested, the person contesting (typically the alleged father) it will have to pay for a court approved DNA test. If either the mother or alleged father refuse to comply, then the court will almost certainly find against them as their refusal will be taken as proof that they are seeking to hide the truth.

Bare in mind this also follows in cases where the alleged father wants to prove that he is the biological father.

The party that loses the paternity contest will often be directed to pay costs for the test if it was paid by the other party, although in practice if it is the mother and she is on LPA, this won't happen.

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