AEW - All Elite Wrestling (Spoilers for Latest Show)

Neil3030 · 06-07-2020 5:38pm

thebostoncrab wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head, better than anything else I've read to pin point the exact issue AEW has right now. When I read your post I challenged myself to think about who is the "main eventer" in AEW besides Mox....and for everyone not called Brian Cage I found a reason to say "But they won't beat Mox for the belt", and that's solely down to a lack of guys being presented as top tier level. I often use the final boss anaolgy for this. In a video game I will have to go against general bad guys (Mid card), sub boss (Upper mind card) and then end level boss (Main event). I can't put anyone in as an end level boss. The only person I could argue is Cody, but due to that stupid gimmick match he can't go for the belt.

The other issue when someone starts gaining momentum, they haveto put them in a tag team because they want to the the company that is seen as the company for tag team wrestling. And I'd say that has worked, because the tag division is stacked and full of teams that could legit challenge Kenny and Hangman....but it's come at the cost of your singles main event scene. I can't wait for Hangman and Kenny to move away from the tag scene so the singles division gets two potential end level bosses.

ThePott wrote: »

I feel they really fumbled with Omega. I think they were worried about looking like they were pushing themselves and this is a valid concern but he was legit one of the biggest names in wrestling not long ago and now he's just another guy. He's lost his momentum.

I remember reading someone say once that AEW are booking Kenny the way everyone feared WWE would which I think is a bit drastic but not far off. I feel like that with a lot of AEW's roster. It feels like they want everyone to feel like the top guys but there probably should be a limit to who is at the top of the card and who is in the middle, not everyone can be at the top and there's nothing wrong with that.

McMahon makes no secret about only focusing his energy on a handful of people at a time, those that he sees as his top 4 or 5 stars. They'll get pushed beyond the moon, while the remainder of the card just make up the numbers.

I feel this was the primary gripe amongst the "core" AEW / Independent fanbase - there were guys down the WWE card that they wanted pushed (Rusev, etc) and guys at the top that they didn't like (Roman), and further, they felt powerless about influencing either situation. No amount of cheers for Rusev or boos for Roman changed WWE's mind.

AEW, it's now clear, set out their stall to be antithesis to the WWE model - make sure everyone in the card gets their moment to shine, and have no clear favourites at the top. This was initially refreshing, and admirable to a certain extent, as I'm sure it helps foster a more collaborative atmosphere amongst talent.

But stars sell tickets. Stars get fans excited about a show. Stars get fans to buy the ppv. Stars keep fans up the extra hour into the small hours of the morning to see their match (well, maybe more relevant for us European fans). By trying too much to NOT be WWE, AEW have neglected one of the fundamental strategies of the wrestling business. And I feel their declining ratings now reflect this.

I think I've made this point a few times here, but the worst case of this has been in their women's division. You had a monster heel (Rose) with limitless potential - great look, size, powerful, can move, very convincing promo. She's the complete package, or at least, very close to it. And within the first year she has already lost at least twice in singles matches. Last match I saw her in, she was bumping around the arena for a woman half her size. Good luck getting her heat back!

LineOfBeauty · 07-07-2020 1:05pm

The Omega takes are wide of the mark.

He and Jericho were the clear top two in the company at the point of formation. They headlined a ppv and Jericho won. They put the belt on Jericho and in that time they've moved Omega away from the top position and others have been elevated as a result. A big issue with the roster on formation was that Omega, Jericho aside, had no natural rival for the ace position. So they've worked a long storyline with Page that should bring him up to that level while also elevating the tag team division (every company needs USP's and the tag stuff is AEW's). When the time comes the elevation of Omega to top singles star is easy but the time to do that is when he has legitimate challengers and contenders in fans eyes and, compared to when the company first started, in Cody, Mox, Jericho and soon Page they'll have genuine contenders for him as ace and that's genuinely just very well thought out booking.

connemara man · 07-07-2020 1:20pm

And AEW seem very much in holding pattern feuds until crowds are in. Knowing they need that reaction for some of the bigger stuff

Neil3030 · 07-07-2020 3:27pm

Omega should have ridden his momentum from Japan and murdered anyone he got in the ring with. He should have either been screwed out of the belt by Jericho, and now be undefeated in his pursuit, or he should have won the belt and stayed undefeated. In either case he establishes himself as their ace. You can't just push a button and overwrite nearly a year of bad booking.

RollieFingers · 07-07-2020 3:45pm

I've enjoyed Omega in AEW, him and Hangman have been a great pairing. Also like Mox as the champ, for me there's a bit of an aura around him that not many in wrestling have these days, he's definitely worthy of holding the belt.

Looking forward to catching BPJ on Dark tonight!

sky88 · 07-07-2020 3:50pm

connemara man wrote: »

And AEW seem very much in holding pattern feuds until crowds are in. Knowing they need that reaction for some of the bigger stuff

with the way america is going this may not be till 2021 will be hard to keep that momentum in stories going

ThePott · 07-07-2020 4:21pm

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

They put the belt on Jericho and in that time they've moved Omega away from the top position and others have been elevated as a result.

How so? Omega has still very much been top of the card, he main evented over the belt to put over Moxley. Who already would have been a main eventer. Hangman was a big deal already before being paired with him after the build to the first All Out. Who else has elevated from pairing with Omega? Moxley was already a big deal. Jericho has certainly elevated others but I don't feel Omega has necessarily.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

When the time comes the elevation of Omega to top singles star is easy but the time to do that is when he has legitimate challengers and contenders in fans eyes and, compared to when the company first started, in Cody, Mox, Jericho and soon Page they'll have genuine contenders for him as ace and that's genuinely just very well thought out booking.

All of these contenders were there early on anyway. Save for page they were pretty much at the top of the card from the inception of AEW. Are you really saying Jericho is a better contender now that he was a few months ago? Moxley already beat Omega not even that long ago and it was the main event essentially. I agree with you of course that this can all be undone over time when you put him back as a singles competitor but my only point was that they had probably the biggest non-WWE name in wrestling and I feel they squandered it.

I think it's pretty clear that AEW has put stories on hold until crowds come back but I don't think that excuses everything. I still think they messed up with Omega. Has he really raised anyone's profile? I don't think Hangman has been benefited from being paired with him and granted they've pumped the brakes on a lot of these stories until things get back to normal but I don't think the tag titles feel all that relevant. They weren't even defended at Double or Nothing.

I like AEW but it certainly has felt stale as of late in my opinion.

Neil3030 · 07-07-2020 5:14pm

Forget you know anything about Omega and you just looked at his spots on AEW PPVs or TV specials:

Lost to Jericho
Part of a six-man tag
Beat Cima
Lost to Pac
Lost to Moxley
Part of a tag match
Part of a 5-on-5 gimmick match

Is this getting him over as their ace? Could you imagine Gedo booking Okada like this if NJPW were breaking into the U.S.?

Also - how if you want to build Page as a singles guy... why on earth put him in a tag team??

beakerjoe · 07-07-2020 5:43pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Omega should have ridden his momentum from Japan and murdered anyone he got in the ring with. He should have either been screwed out of the belt by Jericho, and now be undefeated in his pursuit, or he should have won the belt and stayed undefeated. In either case he establishes himself as their ace. You can't just push a button and overwrite nearly a year of bad booking.

He had a great bout with Trent, as wrestling matches go, on Dynamite a few months ago.

But thats the problem, he should be killing Trent in a match. Trents a solid worker, but hes just a guy and yet hes going toe to toe with a top star.

If they want to make Kenny a top star/end level boss in teh future, it wont be hard, but right now Kenny has cooled off big time. The should have pulled the trigger on him v Hangman ages ago.

beakerjoe · 07-07-2020 5:45pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Forget you know anything about Omega and you just looked at his spots on AEW PPVs or TV specials:

Lost to Jericho
Part of a six-man tag
Beat Cima
Lost to Pac
Lost to Moxley
Part of a tag match
Part of a 5-on-5 gimmick match

Is this getting him over as their ace? Could you imagine Gedo booking Okada like this if NJPW were breaking into the U.S.?

Also - how if you want to build Page as a singles guy... why on earth put him in a tag team??

The booking initially was sound, hes in a team with Omega and they had difference and troubles. And their match/ feud with the Bucks was fantastic booking. But they moved far too slow with this angle and the trigger should have been pulled a few weeks later.

Neil3030 · 07-07-2020 6:51pm

beakerjoe wrote: »

The booking initially was sound, hes in a team with Omega and they had difference and troubles. And their match/ feud with the Bucks was fantastic booking. But they moved far too slow with this angle and the trigger should have been pulled a few weeks later.

Fantastic booking to what end?

The supposed top tag team lost to a non tag team (2nd ppv in a row they lost). So they're swimming up stream now to try get some momentum for FTR.

Meanwhile, you keep the tag belts on two guys, one of whom should be the ace of the company, and the other who has huge potential and needs to start establishing himself in the singles division.

What am I missing here?

07-07-2020 9:45pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Brian Pillman Jr will make his debut on Dark next Tuesday against Shawn Spears.

I was a big fan of his father. Is junior any good?

beakerjoe · 07-07-2020 10:05pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Fantastic booking to what end?

The supposed top tag team lost to a non tag team (2nd ppv in a row they lost). So they're swimming up stream now to try get some momentum for FTR.

Meanwhile, you keep the tag belts on two guys, one of whom should be the ace of the company, and the other who has huge potential and needs to start establishing himself in the singles division.

What am I missing here?

Well like I said it was initially good. The match was hot, the animosity was nicely teased. I wanted to see Omega and Hangman explode.

It didnt happen and is now so cooled off I dont care.

Deleted User wrote: »

I was a big fan of his father. Is junior any good?

Hes very green. Has the tools and is enthusiastic, but he needs work. One for the future.

Riddle101 · 08-07-2020 9:16am

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Brian Pillman Jr will make his debut on Dark next Tuesday against Shawn Spears.

Deleted User wrote: »

I was a big fan of his father. Is junior any good?

I've heard good things about Jr but It looks like he's copying his father a little which is not a good sign. Generation superstars should be trying to get out of the shadow of their fathers by doing their own thing but a lot of them seem to fall into the cliche of being just like their parents which only makes it harder for generation superstars to be taken more seriously by fans. I wish him the best anyway.

Agent Coulson · 08-07-2020 2:26pm

The Puppy Battle Royal tonight

grames_bond · 08-07-2020 3:11pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The Puppy Battle Royal tonight

I am more excited about this than anything else in wrestling right now! :pac:

Agent Coulson · 08-07-2020 4:24pm

HHH in an interview with Sports Illustrated openly admits that the WWE is counter programming AEW and will continue to do so.

sky88 · 08-07-2020 4:43pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

HHH in an interview with Sports Illustrated openly admits that the WWE is counter programming AEW and will continue to do so.

of course they do there head to head both shows will do it

and i think both shows should like if AEW is promoting fyter fest they need to counter with GAB to try keep ratings same it and vice versa

CastorTroy · 08-07-2020 4:48pm

Wonder if WWE have a name for next week's NXT to counter Fight for the Fallen

Lithium93_ · 08-07-2020 4:54pm

They got spooked, and decided to do The Great American Bash on a week's notice.

CastorTroy · 08-07-2020 5:36pm

Who actually notices apart from people who already watch the shows?

Agent Coulson · 09-07-2020 1:19am

Very solid tag team opener.

Agent Coulson · 09-07-2020 1:38am

Class Taz brought back the FTW title

raven136 · 09-07-2020 1:41am

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Class Taz brought back the FTW title

Really good moment

So far so good with tonight's show

Agent Coulson · 09-07-2020 2:11am

Joey and Archer was very enjoyable followed by a really good 8 man tag.

Neil3030 · 09-07-2020 3:01am

This is a lot better than I thought it would be, but dammit if it doesn't look like Jericho wrestling his son at times.

Agent Coulson · 09-07-2020 3:19am

Oragne is just so bloody good with that gimmick.

Neil3030 · 09-07-2020 5:18am

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Oragne is just so bloody good with that gimmick.

What exactly is that gimmick?

Agent Coulson · 09-07-2020 5:36am

The Puppy Battle Royal

This match is better than anything I called in 2000.....Tony

Agent Coulson · 09-07-2020 7:54am

Alvarez reporting the bruising on Colt was legit.

Ouch.

J. Marston · 09-07-2020 10:43am

Surprised Cage didn't end up in WWE. Looks like one of Vince's beefy boys.

Agent Coulson · 09-07-2020 4:16pm

https://twitter.com/main_eventer/status/1281089955884748800?s=21

LineOfBeauty · 09-07-2020 7:22pm

That 8 man tag is a banger. Great storytelling, brilliantly put together match, literally everyone came out of it looking better. I went all the way to ****1/4 on it.

Also really enjoyed the main event, minimal shtick (for a Cassidy match at least) and re-established The Inner Circle as real threatening heels. ***3/4

CastorTroy · 09-07-2020 7:27pm

Wonder who Nyla got as a manager

sky88 · 09-07-2020 8:11pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

Wonder who Nyla got as a manager

Vickie guerrero seems to be popular guess on twitter wouldn’t be suprised seems to be at a lot of the shows

J. Marston · 09-07-2020 9:31pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

HHH in an interview with Sports Illustrated openly admits that the WWE is counter programming AEW and will continue to do so.

Seems to be working. 3-0 NXT over the last 3 weeks in the ratings bumfight war.

sky88 · 09-07-2020 9:40pm

I don’t know why they feel the need to come out with comments like this same with Jericho last week

https://twitter.com/tonykhan/status/1281324955725107200?s=21

Neil3030 · 09-07-2020 9:51pm

How long before TK is the head of the Khan Corporation, trying to keep the world title off Stone Cold Cody?

CastorTroy · 09-07-2020 9:59pm

They messed up their chance to counter the Cole/Lee match. Instead of having Cassidy/Jericho as the main event, it's obvious they should've had the Puppy Battle Royal. I mean did you see the reactions of the fans during that Battle Royal?!

ConcertKing · 10-07-2020 6:20pm

Must say I nearly jumped outta my skin when Orange Cassidy nearly took Jerichos head off with the superkick!!

Such a great match and Orange Cassidy really does have all the tools to reach the very top.

Just wish there was a crowd there for it.

Neil3030 · 10-07-2020 6:56pm

I am absolutely astonished at how people see Cassidy as anything above midcard.

Undersized comedy gimmick with no promo.

When has that ever drawn money outside of the more niche, dedicated fanbase?

beakerjoe · 11-07-2020 1:32pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

I am absolutely astonished at how people see Cassidy as anything above midcard.

Undersized comedy gimmick with no promo.

When has that ever drawn money outside of the more niche, dedicated fanbase?

When has anyone star drawn money lately?

Hes doing well at the moment, the current gimmick is working fine.

Neil3030 · 11-07-2020 5:42pm

beakerjoe wrote: »

When has anyone star drawn money lately?

Hes doing well at the moment, the current gimmick is working fine.

Silly me! I misunderstood "getting to the very top". Clearly this doesn't mean drawing money any more?

So what's the measure of success nowadays? Few hundred people talking about you on Twitter?

By the way, do yourself a favour and don't look up Dynamite's all time worst viewed segment. It may feature a certain "top guy" that's doing "well" at the moment.

beakerjoe · 11-07-2020 9:41pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Silly me! I misunderstood "getting to the very top". Clearly this doesn't mean drawing money any more?

So what's the measure of success nowadays? Few hundred people talking about you on Twitter?

By the way, do yourself a favour and don't look up Dynamite's all time worst viewed segment. It may feature a certain "top guy" that's doing "well" at the moment.

Personally I like OC. Ive enjoyed his work thus far in AEW. Make no mistake I don't think he is the second coming of The Rock or Austin..... hell I dont think hes a main eventer in his current form. I like him in the same way I enjoyed The Hurricane tangle with The Rock.

Is he drawing? I really cant say I watch AEW for him alone, nor do I watch any show for 1 guy. He sells good merch, maybe in a way akin to Zack Ryder at the height of his fame. Fans seem to enjoy him, well the majority seem to at least.

I dont think wrestling as a whole is a successful business in the US. Ratings are low across the board. Hes as successful as anyone at the moment though. Good for him I say.

Sirsok · 11-07-2020 11:35pm

I was just about to write it's like the Hurricane and The Rock!

Fun gimmick that will have a shelf life , probably have a taken seriously angle eventually

beakerjoe · 11-07-2020 11:55pm

Sirsok wrote: »

I was just about to write it's like the Hurricane and The Rock!

Fun gimmick that will have a shelf life , probably have a taken seriously angle eventually

It most certainly has a shelf life, it will grow stale eventually but it all depends on hows its booked.

OC as a character or a performer will need to evolve long term. Right now, its over and Im fairly entertained and happy with the booking thus far.

sky88 · 12-07-2020 12:02am

I really enjoy oc I don’t think he’ll ever be a main eventer for the title but entertaining characters always have there place in any wrestling show

beakerjoe · 12-07-2020 12:12am

sky88 wrote: »

I really enjoy oc I don’t think he’ll ever be a main eventer for the title but entertaining characters always have there place in any wrestling show

Exactly. Riggt now OC is fine in his role and I see no issue with him rubbing shoulders with top tier performers.

Is he a main eventer in his current form? No.

Could the wrestler or character evolve to the point where he could? Probably, anything is possible.

Agent Coulson · 12-07-2020 7:04pm

AEW Dark next week is stacked and the main event is Cage vs Pillman Jr for the FTW belt.

Genetic Jackhammer · 12-07-2020 7:24pm

Pillman jr is a stud raw as hell but some prospect.

AEW - All Elite Wrestling (*Spoilers for Latest Show*)

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AEW - All Elite Wrestling (Spoilers for Latest Show)