All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

mountgomery burns wrote: »

All the same, I couldn't have any of this conspiracy theory nonsense. No way Cleere was refereeing with an agenda to do Tipp

I'm not into conspiracy theories either but there is a big rivalry between KK/Tipp, even hatred in some quarters. To have a KK ref Tipp when KK are waiting in the final was just poor judgement to me. I dont know Cleere or how partisan a KK man he might be but there is such a thing also a subconscious bias where a person favours one outcome over another without necessarily intending it.

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Seemingly discussions were going well until Donal Og demanded that he wouldnt take the job unless the English Market in Cork was closed down.

Its a ridiclous thing to have to listen on national TV. He should be stood down actually. If an English soccer pundit expressed such sentiments about Ireland he'd be sacked.

On Cusack's rant, he brings up Jack Charlton's long ball game as an example of teams without tactical innovation, when in fact the long ball game was developed as a novel tactic to use against a possesion based team, hitting the forwards early and winning the breaking ball in a dangerous position.

John Bull was mentioned
Donal Og Bull

I still have to re-watch the Limerick Kilkenny match. It passed with a blur and id be afraid I took a lot of it up wrong. But I said before the game I was worried about our chances. Every dog in the street could see what Kilkenny were going to bring and everyone knew Cody had timed the run. Hogan and Wally were always going to play this game.
We knew who was going to play and how they were going to start. Hit us early, hit us hard. After 2 minutes you could see we were in trouble. We caught them up, but Kilkenny to be absolutely fair to them stayed ahead. Deserved their win. The 65 at the end, these things happen, I wasnt even sure it was our line ball first off. Kilkenny deserved their win so I have no bones about it.
I knew we were definitely in trouble in week before the game. So many people I spoke with were so confident. Ridiculously confident. People think were so far ahead of the rest and I said why? Because of 1 game, the Munster final. Worst thing that could have happened this team was winning so easily. We had a great league, but championship last year where we scraped by a few times, and Cork, Tipp games this year should have been enough for most people to keep their feet on the ground. When I read Gillane say that the in house matches were as competitive as a championship match I knew we were in trouble. He was either over confident or talking rubbish. Either way how anyone can say an in house match was as intense or tough as Kilkenny were in that semi final or the qf against Cork is beyond me. When we all know whats required at this stage of the year. We played 6, won 3 lost 3. Lost to Tipp, Cork and Kilkenny. Cant have any complaints.
Lots of lessons learnt this year to be fair and a league & Munster double is a great return. Pressure will be on next year. I think Cody is probably 1 year early with his bunch but they have a great chance if another AI.

On the other semi final, what an epic and all the talking points. TSG was a disgrace, poor Cummins stick in between those two waxing lyrical about absolutely nothing. For all the talk about Tipp being old and slow, only 1 side was full of running in the last 20. And you cant beat experience. Wexford brought their game plan, but this was played at such a tempo they couldnt keep it up. People said Wexford lost their way, stopped playing their way, but I think that last 20 they were dead on their feet. It was involuntary. They were bet. Tipp deserved their win.
On the incidents:
McGraths red, he hit the hurley not the player, definite yellow, 2 yellows off, no complaints there other than the first yellow was soft. First disallowed goal, Breen I think, goal all day, no free out. Morris goal, goal all day. Square ball goal was borderline, id give it the benefit of the doubt, Morning Ireland played a bit of Eddie Brennan and Brian Carroll, both call square ball immediately. Penalty call, think he went down easily, have seen them given, have seen them not given, balances out with the square ball call maybe. The dig was a definite second yellow, probably even a red, Tipp very lucky there.
Inconsistency with the high tackles, Noel McGrath got a yellow, two Wexford tackles got away with it. Paudie Maher steps, 1 definite was the other wasnt and that was at a crucial stage for Wexford to get a free in. Few other instances of steps not called, think the ref made a point to ping Maher with it twice but the fact he left others go made it look biased.
The biggest incident for me was the hawk-eye disallowed goal. 1. I did not think hawkeye was for goal line or end line calls or what ever you might call it, just trajectory. Can it tell if a ball has just crossed the endline 'plane'? I didnt think so and I think the GAA need to clarify that. All its graphics on the big screen show is trajectory also which adds to the confusion. 2. I didnt think looking at replays or pictures that it had crossed the line. Those are my issues with the call. Mainly it didnt look like it had crossed the line, so thats in my mind 3 disallowed goals for Tipp that should have stood.
The ref was poor. Unfortunately for him he was much worse for 1 county than the other and that has amplified it. Tipp deserved the win. Wexford need a deeper squad, Tipp were able to bring in lads into the 15 then call on 5 more subs and all made an impact. I have it that Wexford started 18 and used 23 players this championship, way less than the other 3 semifinalists, Tipp I think its 21 starters, 26 used. If Davy goes, after the effort Wexford put in the last 3 years, it could all deflate very quickly. Their next manager is a very important appointment. Please dont pick Derek McGrath or Donal Og!

letsseehere14 wrote: »

I still have to re-watch the Limerick Kilkenny match. It passed with a blur and id be afraid I took a lot of it up wrong. But I said before the game I was worried about our chances. Every dog in the street could see what Kilkenny were going to bring and everyone knew Cody had timed the run. Hogan and Wally were always going to play this game.
We knew who was going to play and how they were going to start. Hit us early, hit us hard. After 2 minutes you could see we were in trouble. We caught them up, but Kilkenny to be absolutely fair to them stayed ahead. Deserved their win. The 65 at the end, these things happen, I wasnt even sure it was our line ball first off. Kilkenny deserved their win so I have no bones about it.
I knew we were definitely in trouble in week before the game. So many people I spoke with were so confident. Ridiculously confident. People think were so far ahead of the rest and I said why? Because of 1 game, the Munster final. Worst thing that could have happened this team was winning so easily. We had a great league, but championship last year where we scraped by a few times, and Cork, Tipp games this year should have been enough for most people to keep their feet on the ground. When I read Gillane say that the in house matches were as competitive as a championship match I knew we were in trouble. He was either over confident or talking rubbish. Either way how anyone can say an in house match was as intense or tough as Kilkenny were in that semi final or the qf against Cork is beyond me. When we all know whats required at this stage of the year. We played 6, won 3 lost 3. Lost to Tipp, Cork and Kilkenny. Cant have any complaints.
Lots of lessons learnt this year to be fair and a league & Munster double is a great return. Pressure will be on next year. I think Cody is probably 1 year early with his bunch but they have a great chance if another AI.

On the other semi final, what an epic and all the talking points. TSG was a disgrace, poor Cummins stick in between those two waxing lyrical about absolutely nothing. For all the talk about Tipp being old and slow, only 1 side was full of running in the last 20. And you cant beat experience. Wexford brought their game plan, but this was played at such a tempo they couldnt keep it up. People said Wexford lost their way, stopped playing their way, but I think that last 20 they were dead on their feet. It was involuntary. They were bet. Tipp deserved their win.
On the incidents:
McGraths red, he hit the hurley not the player, definite yellow, 2 yellows off, no complaints there other than the first yellow was soft. First disallowed goal, Breen I think, goal all day, no free out. Morris goal, goal all day. Square ball goal was borderline, id give it the benefit of the doubt, Morning Ireland played a bit of Eddie Brennan and Brian Carroll, both call square ball immediately. Penalty call, think he went down easily, have seen them given, have seen them not given, balances out with the square ball call maybe. The dig was a definite second yellow, probably even a red, Tipp very lucky there.
Inconsistency with the high tackles, Noel McGrath got a yellow, two Wexford tackles got away with it. Paudie Maher steps, 1 definite was the other wasnt and that was at a crucial stage for Wexford to get a free in. Few other instances of steps not called, think the ref made a point to ping Maher with it twice but the fact he left others go made it look biased.
The biggest incident for me was the hawk-eye disallowed goal. 1. I did not think hawkeye was for goal line or end line calls or what ever you might call it, just trajectory. Can it tell if a ball has just crossed the endline 'plane'? I didnt think so and I think the GAA need to clarify that. All its graphics on the big screen show is trajectory also which adds to the confusion. 2. I didnt think looking at replays or pictures that it had crossed the line. Those are my issues with the call. Mainly it didnt look like it had crossed the line, so thats in my mind 3 disallowed goals for Tipp that should have stood.
The ref was poor. Unfortunately for him he was much worse for 1 county than the other and that has amplified it. Tipp deserved the win. Wexford need a deeper squad, Tipp were able to bring in lads into the 15 then call on 5 more subs and all made an impact. I have it that Wexford started 18 and used 23 players this championship, way less than the other 3 semifinalists, Tipp I think its 21 starters, 26 used. If Davy goes, after the effort Wexford put in the last 3 years, it could all deflate very quickly. Their next manager is a very important appointment. Please dont pick Derek McGrath or Donal Og!

I'd be very surprised if cleere ever gets ref tipp in big game again, the free near the end against maher with 3 lads hanging off him was as Cody would say was criminal and reeked of bias, daithi Regan seems to be only man that heard sean cleere blow whistle before morris goal, all pundits on gas hour agreed 3 tipp goals should gave stood and 2 said Wexford had square ball but that was hard to call in fairness. If you look at replay cleere didn't see heffenans punch also. Cleere seems to want to be involved in every thing, even Donal o Grady said he could have ignored Hawkeye as play had went on too far but again chose to ride tipp.

Good point there about the use of hawk eye.
cant see us going down the route of v.a.r. as i think we would lack the patience.
also the second paudie maher free he had lost the hurley but also it may have been due to all the previous comments about his barging

raindodger wrote: »

Good point there about the use of hawk eye.
cant see us going down the route of v.a.r. as i think we would lack the patience.
also the second paudie maher free he had lost the hurley but also it may have been due to all the previous comments about his barging

No its not barging, chin barged with his head down and got a free in, Colin fennelly took 12 steps according to lads on the gAA hour, that's what you call barging.

Tell me how wrote: »

A lot of the conversation on radio yesterday was how the referees need more technology to be used.

You can imagine the furore if it emerged a ref ignored Hawkeye instructing him it was a point.

Even camera angles didn't prove Hawkeye was wrong.

Even camera angles didn't prove it was a point so you can't give it, cleere had the choice to ignore but didn't, not a hope it would have been mentioned had he ignored because nobody thought it was a point, how can Hawkeye distinguish between sliotar and knuckles of hogan? Hawkeye should not have intervened and cleere should have ignored it.

iebamm2580 wrote: »

His point is valid whether you lime him or not, cleere did not have to acknowledge Hawkeye, its at the refs discretion, if that's all you disagree with from my post then great we agree on the rest.

I'm not disagreeing with his point, I'm just amused that you think he's the last word on the matter.

What I actually disagree with is the rest your post, which is just persecution complex stuff.

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with his point, I'm just amused that you think he's the last word on the matter.

What I actually disagree with is the rest your post, which is just persecution complex stuff.

Where did I say he was the last word on the matter? Well most intercounty hurlers I have heard since have the same perception as me, even known tipp hater Eddie Brennan was saying in Twitter the ref had lost the plot and had voiced concerns pre game.

There was a camera in the Hill 16 goal, surely it would have a pretty good view of the Hogan catch.

Rasputin11 wrote: »

There was a camera in the Hill 16 goal, surely it would have a pretty good view of the Hogan catch.

If it wasn't a point do you really think they will come out and show it now? GAA trying to bury cleeres performance.

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I've done a little more reading on this, because it came to my mind about the 2013 minor semi-final between Limerick and Galway.

Part of Limerick's case at the subsequent hearing was as follows...



Now, of course Galway saw it their own way...



The only reference to Hawkeye in the findings of the tribunal are...



So that ambiguity was certainly there in 2013, and I think it'd be beneficial to hear from you the factual basis for Donal O'Grady's subsequent certainty ?

So that proves what, it doesn't say whether ref has discretion or not, how can I provide factual basis for Donal o Grady, I merely posted what he said, how am I meant to know where he got his info. So are you saying he was wrong and ref doesn't have discretion to ignore Hawkeye?

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Reads to me like it tracks ball trajectory so therefore where the ball is travelling not where it has travelled. I'd like clarification on this, nobody's sure.

Surely it can only know where the ball is going if it knows where it's coming from?

I'm going to throw in my 2 cent here.
Really enjoy the games at the weekend from a natural point of view. 160 (minors as well) Players putting their body on the line for even ball.
Really Championship hurling.

The Officials was the only thing that let the game down. Both Minor and Senior. To list out the mistake would take 10 pages.

Now the Idea that Sean Cleere would give Wexford calls is crazy and comes from a people that haven't seen Cleere referee before.
Sean is incapable of think that far ahead to do something like this.
The Other Referee are trying to be consonant, While still letting the game flow. Which lead to them walking a line that is impossible.
Cleere is different. It's like he has short term memory loss and he forget the rules apply to both sides from play to play. Cleere is so inconsonant with his calls it drive me crazy.

The thing around Ref missing the ball coming off the Kilkenny player at the end and the square ball. They don't annoy me that much. Mainly cause there mistakes. They shouldn't happen but they do.
All I want from Referees is to be consonant in his calls. I don't want perfection.

Looking forward to the Final. I had a feeling that Kilkenny would win all year but with Richie Hogan so far off the pace, I'm begining to turn. I'm going for Tipp in the final.

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

He was told it was a score on the last play. At that point he had little choice but to call back play and allow the score and restart play with a puck out.

Imagine it came out afterwards that he was told it was a score and he ignored it and allowed play go on. There would be war.

How long do you let the game run for though until you bring it back?
Just for arguments sake had it taken two minutes to get confirmation of the point could you still bring play back then and award the point and a puck out?

toxicity234 wrote: »

I'm going to throw in my 2 cent here.
Really enjoy the games at the weekend from a natural point of view. 160 (minors as well) Players putting their body on the line for even ball.
Really Championship hurling.

The Officials was the only thing that let the game down. Both Minor and Senior. To list out the mistake would take 10 pages.

Now the Idea that Sean Cleere would give Wexford calls is crazy and comes from a people that haven't seen Cleere referee before.
Sean is incapable of think that far ahead to do something like this.
The Other Referee are trying to be consonant, While still letting the game flow. Which lead to them walking a line that is impossible.
Cleere is different. It's like he has short term memory loss and he forget the rules apply to both sides from play to play. Cleere is so inconsonant with his calls it drive me crazy.

The thing around Ref missing the ball coming off the Kilkenny player at the end and the square ball. They don't annoy me that much. Mainly cause there mistakes. They shouldn't happen but they do.
All I want from Referees is to be consonant in his calls. I don't want perfection.

Looking forward to the Final. I had a feeling that Kilkenny would win all year but with Richie Hogan so far off the pace, I'm begining to turn. I'm going for Tipp in the final.

You're very consonant in your use of consonant anyway!

I would love to know how many people here, some of whom are actually character-assassinating match officials, have ever put their hands up to volunteer for this ever-thankless task.

Why would anyone put themselves through it ?

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Cameras either side of the goal so yes you can see where its coming from but I don't think it takes into account a goalie jumping high to catch the sliotar, needs to be looked at or clarified.

Hawkeye says that once the ball crosses the line it alerts the ref so apart from the trajectory of being in or outside the post it also has a a way of detecting once the ball is past the cross bar.

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Nah not in my world, if you deny he dislikes tipp its all the matter.

I was referring to the fact that he is married to a lady from Portroe.