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There's no such thing as Santa Claus!!!

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13567…16

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    #62
    Suckler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,209 ✭✭✭Suckler


    robindch wrote: »
    I don't see anything "magic" about filling my kid's head with Santa-related stories, especially since she figured out that it was an adult conjob when she was, AFAIR, four. I can make her smile by telling her lots of other false stories too - she's a kid - why would I abuse her trust?

    Yes, it's lovely to see her smile and grin and giggle and be happy over the moon when she knows she's going to get a present - and we put one from Santa beneath the tree - but she knows quite well it's from her parents. And now at the age of nine, she's embarrassed for her classmates (all of them religious) who still believe in Santa. As a parent, I'd like her to be a little ahead of the curve in terms of maturity and knowing what's what, instead of being one of the kids that's being laughed at her behind their backs because they still believe in Santa, the tooth fairy or any other pious myth.

    She didn't figure it out at age four. You told her because of your issues with religion. Forcing your child to mature is not her "being ahead of the curve in terms of maturity".


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    #63
    Mackman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭Mackman


    pickarooney wrote: »
    How about raising your kids with a positive mindset and to appreciate all the good in the world and the huge array of opportunities open to them?

    You can do that and still let them believe in Santy.


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    #64
    ch750536
    Registered Users Posts: 3,736 ✭✭✭ch750536


    The only reason we perpetuate this santa nonsense is because it is commercially required to do so. Think about it.

    Parents make kids believe you get presents for being good, which out of parents control. You even get the kids to write a shopping list of what will prove they have been good. (FFS people, seriously!!!11!!!1)
    Parents want kids to be happy.
    Parents buy enough stuff to make kids (& therefore themselves) happy.
    Corporations give an evil laugh at all the $$$

    The beauty of all this is the way they have made parents believe the whole santa thing is about the kids, it's not, it's for the parents. You are an evil crazy bitch if you don't persuade your kids that some guy who lives forever at the north pole makes gifts for every kid on the planet which he distributes in one night by flying on a magic sleigh pulled by a glowing nosed reindeer.

    Christmas in our house is about gifts partly. Gifts are always nice. More than anything though it is about spending quality time together, playing silly games, going for walks, doing jigsaws and calling in on friends.


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    #65
    Mousewar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    I found out when I was 9. I was devastated. Rumours had been spreading in school for months and I asked my ma several times if they were true but she denied them every time. I was still doubtful though and made her swear on my life so she admitted he wasn't real. I felt awful although I didn't show it. I wanted to seem like the cool kid in the know so I hid the disappointment. All of that led me to conclude that I wouldn't risk devastating my own kids and so would not indulge the Santa myth.

    However, kids believe in all sorts of fantasy. Dragons, invisible friends, the Gruffalo! We don't go around bursting all those bubbles so why would I pointedly tell my kid Santa doesn't exist? You see, it wasn't so much finding out that he didn't exist. It was the lying that got me. I had asked my mother several times and she lied to me. I think when a kid starts asking those questions it's a sign they're ready for the truth and shouldn't be lied to.

    In short, indulge Santa like you would any childish make-believe but don't out and out lie to them when they're asking you an honest question.


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    #66
    Into The Blue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭Into The Blue


    Mousewar wrote: »
    In short, indulge Santa like you would any childish make-believe but don't out and out lie to them when they're asking you an honest question.

    What about the (albiet dubious) OP scenario of the gobshïte telling a six year old, who in turn tells your six year old, who then comes to you looking for answers..


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    #67
    Weatherproof79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 174 ✭✭Weatherproof79


    Christmas was never the same once I found out. The whole point of being a child is to have a childhood. What a horrible miserable scrooge. Ignorance is bliss


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    #68
    Mousewar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    Into The Blue wrote: »
    What about the (albiet dubious) OP scenario of the gobshïte telling a six year old, who in turn tells your six year old, who then comes to you looking for answers..

    Well I heard rumours when I was six as well but I just dismissed them. I was still way too entrenched in it. I didn't even go to my ma that time. Each kid will be different, gotta judge it when it happens. Maybe I'd try a diversion answer or something but I just know I wouldn't flat out lie to my kid if he came to me genuinely looking for the truth, whatever his age.


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    #69
    Weatherproof79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 174 ✭✭Weatherproof79


    robindch wrote: »
    I don't see anything "magic" about filling my kid's head with Santa-related stories, especially since she figured out that it was an adult conjob when she was, AFAIR, four. I can make her smile by telling her lots of other false stories too - she's a kid - why would I abuse her trust?

    Yes, it's lovely to see her smile and grin and giggle and be happy over the moon when she knows she's going to get a present - and we put one from Santa beneath the tree - but she knows quite well it's from her parents. And now at the age of nine, she's embarrassed for her classmates (all of them religious) who still believe in Santa. As a parent, I'd like her to be a little ahead of the curve in terms of maturity and knowing what's what, instead of being one of the kids that's being laughed at her behind their backs because they still believe in Santa, the tooth fairy or any other pious myth.

    You're not filling her head with any Santa related stories but by the sounds of it you're instilling your judgemental snobbery. You care more about what others think of your child than her chance of a childhood you confirm that with the laughing behind her back comment. The only thing "embarrassing" is you,not kids who believe in Santa. And way to stereotype with the "all religious" comment. Everyone knows stereotyping is the pinnacle of intelligence smh . Just no hope for some people. The epitome of misery and snobbery


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    #70
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    This thread is really depressing....

    So many adults pushing their adult and biased view of the world on innocent kids :-

    I see we also have a few of the uneducated militant atheist types who even manage to bring their ill informed hatred of all things "God" into it.

    Jesus wept...

    They're kids FFS. They want to be told stories. They want a bit of magic.

    I figured it out young and it was still such a magic time.

    Stop putting your issues on your children. They don't think the same. Nor do they care about your cynical world view.


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    #71
    Into The Blue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭Into The Blue


    Swanner wrote: »
    They're kids FFS. They want to be told stories. They want a bit of magic.

    Stop putting your issues on your children. They don't think the same. Nor do they care about your cynical world view.

    They probably swap the fairy tales for the news paper at bed time.


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    #72
    Suckler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,209 ✭✭✭Suckler


    Into The Blue wrote: »
    They probably swap the fairy tales for the news paper at bed time.

    Only if the children have paid the rent and nappy charges on time. You have to teach them early you know.


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    #73
    lolokeogh
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭lolokeogh


    Swanner wrote: »
    This thread is really depressing....

    So many adults pushing their adult and biased view of the world on innocent kids :-

    I see we also have a few of the uneducated militant atheist types who even manage to bring their ill informed hatred of all things "God" into it.

    Jesus wept...

    They're kids FFS. They want to be told stories. They want a bit of magic.

    I figured it out young and it was still such a magic time.

    Stop putting your issues on your children. They don't think the same. Nor do they care about your cynical world view.

    agreed


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    #74
    Into The Blue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭Into The Blue


    robindch wrote: »
    Yes, it's lovely to see her smile and grin and giggle and be happy over the moon when she knows she's going to get a present - and we put one from Santa beneath the tree

    Small point, but why do you put a present from you via Santa under the tree? Why not just hand it to her?

    That's the part i find most depressing, she's trying to act grown up as she knows well by now thats you expect from a child, but the childish grin, giggle and smile seeps out all the same..


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    #75
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    robindch wrote: »
    I don't see anything "magic" about filling my kid's head with Santa-related stories, especially since she figured out that it was an adult conjob when she was, AFAIR, four. I can make her smile by telling her lots of other false stories too - she's a kid - why would I abuse her trust?

    Yes, it's lovely to see her smile and grin and giggle and be happy over the moon when she knows she's going to get a present - and we put one from Santa beneath the tree - but she knows quite well it's from her parents. And now at the age of nine, she's embarrassed for her classmates (all of them religious) who still believe in Santa. As a parent, I'd like her to be a little ahead of the curve in terms of maturity and knowing what's what, instead of being one of the kids that's being laughed at her behind their backs because they still believe in Santa, the tooth fairy or any other pious myth.

    There's just so much wrong with this post it's difficult to know where to start.

    You're not filling her head with Santa stories yet you did actually fill her head with Santa stories till she was 4 and now you put a present under the tree that's from Santa but not actually from Santa :confused:

    At least you're not abusing her trust eh :rolleyes:

    Just wondering, did you teach her to be embarrassed for her classmates or did she learn that gem herself ? Do you think the kids that believe in Santa are embarrassed for themselves ? Why mention that the kids that believe are religious ? What bearing does that have on anything ? Do you believe that she's more mature because you told her that Santa doesn't exist ?

    I sincerely hope that when she does mature, which will happen on her timescale, not yours, that she does think for herself and isn't tarnished by your views.

    Problem is, if that happens, she's more likely to be embarrassed for you putting posts of this nature on a public forum then she is for a few kids believing in the magic of Christmas.

    But each to their own and all that....


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    #76
    Into The Blue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭Into The Blue


    Seems as long as it's her doing the laughing in school, it's ok..


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    #77
    Cork Lass
    Registered Users Posts: 6,813 ✭✭✭Cork Lass


    Swanner wrote: »
    There's just so much wrong with this post it's difficult to know where to start.

    You're not filling her head with Santa stories yet you did actually fill her head with Santa stories till she was 4 and now you put a present under the tree that's from Santa but not actually from Santa :confused:

    At least you're not abusing her trust eh :rolleyes:

    Just wondering, did you teach her to be embarrassed for her classmates or did she learn that gem herself ? Do you think the kids that believe in Santa are embarrassed for themselves ? Why mention that the kids that believe are religious ? What bearing does that have on anything ? Do you believe that she's more mature because you told her that Santa doesn't exist ?

    I sincerely hope that when she does mature, which will happen on her timescale, not yours, that she does think for herself and isn't tarnished by your views.

    Problem is, if that happens, she's more likely to be embarrassed for you putting posts of this nature on a public forum then she is for a few kids believing in the magic of Christmas.

    But each to their own and all that....

    I couldn't have said that better. Thanks X 1000


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    #78
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I don't buy this "lying to kids" nonsense to be fair. We lie to kids all the time. They're usually little white lies, "No I'm not eating chocolate, this is Daddy's medicine", but we do it. I see no need to lie about important things, but even then we don't go into full gory detail. When a five year old asks where babies come from, you don't get into the nitty-gritty of Daddy doing the nasty thing with Mummy and blowing his beans without a jacket on. No, you polish it up, simplify it, talk about Daddy "putting the baby in Mummy's tummy with a special hug", or something. In other words, you lie.

    I find there seems to be two camps with the whole Santa thing. You've a minority of people who remember finding out about Santa as being a traumatic and horrible experience. And then you've most other people who either don't remember finding out, or don't remember it being a big deal.

    My Mum was telling me that she was 10 or so, and her teacher actually had to pull her aside after class to explain it - the other kids had started laughing when she talked about Santy in class. She vowed growing up that she would never inflict that on her own kids, she'd never get into the Santy nonsense. My Dad had the opposite view and when their first born came along, she went with it - after all, you can't really explain to a 2/3 year old that there's no Santy anyway, not when all of the other kids are all about it. She saw the delight that it brought and realised that far outweighs any nonsense notion of "not lying" to a toddler.

    Ultimately it's about ensuring that the truth is explained at the right time. It's the parents who let it drag on till the child is 9 or 10 in the hopes that they don't have to pull the plug themselves that are playing with fire. Not the ones telling tall tales to a four year old.


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    #79
    lolokeogh
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭lolokeogh


    robindch wrote: »
    I don't see anything "magic" about filling my kid's head with Santa-related stories, especially since she figured out that it was an adult conjob when she was, AFAIR, four. I can make her smile by telling her lots of other false stories too - she's a kid - why would I abuse her trust?

    Yes, it's lovely to see her smile and grin and giggle and be happy over the moon when she knows she's going to get a present - and we put one from Santa beneath the tree - but she knows quite well it's from her parents. And now at the age of nine, she's embarrassed for her classmates (all of them religious) who still believe in Santa. As a parent, I'd like her to be a little ahead of the curve in terms of maturity and knowing what's what, instead of being one of the kids that's being laughed at her behind their backs because they still believe in Santa, the tooth fairy or any other pious myth.


    wow how sad is this post..


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    #80
    haminka
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭haminka


    My almost 6-year old knows there's no Santa. She sees Santa as a fantastic and nice make-believe figure. I don't want to lie to her and tell her fibs about Santa and elves, especially as she also sees that stuff gets broken (like her Furby she got last Christmas) and we are not sending it back to Santa to get the money back. There's no less magic in Christmas because of that, we are going to bake the Christmas cookies soon and decorate them together, she's made her own Christmas tree decorations and cards and she's looking forward to the weekend when we are going to decorate the Christmas tree together.
    We try to keep the commercial side of Christmas like presents separate from the whole Christmas spirit. Yep, it's nice to be looking forward to presents and children love it but the main thing about Santa is a great way of marketing. Kids see something on the telly and want it so they write a letter to Santa. And they want more and more and some parents can't resists their little darlings because they are afraid to tell them that Santa didn't have so much money. So our daughter knows who's responsible for buying presents and that when we say no sweetie, this is way too expensive, it won't just appear under the Christmas tree because Santa magicked it out.


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    #81
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,108 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I was Mrs Claus for a few hours last week, not handing out presents but just talking to children. I spoke to several hundred children and they were all lovely kids, the vast majority with modest requests and very trusting. They were great!


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    #82
    Weatherproof79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 174 ✭✭Weatherproof79


    haminka wrote: »
    My almost 6-year old knows there's no Santa. She sees Santa as a fantastic and nice make-believe figure. I don't want to lie to her and tell her fibs about Santa and elves, especially as she also sees that stuff gets broken (like her Furby she got last Christmas) and we are not sending it back to Santa to get the money back. There's no less magic in Christmas because of that, we are going to bake the Christmas cookies soon and decorate them together, she's made her own Christmas tree decorations and cards and she's looking forward to the weekend when we are going to decorate the Christmas tree together.
    We try to keep the commercial side of Christmas like presents separate from the whole Christmas spirit. Yep, it's nice to be looking forward to presents and children love it but the main thing about Santa is a great way of marketing. Kids see something on the telly and want it so they write a letter to Santa. And they want more and more and some parents can't resists their little darlings because they are afraid to tell them that Santa didn't have so much money. So our daughter knows who's responsible for buying presents and that when we say no sweetie, this is way too expensive, it won't just appear under the Christmas tree because Santa magicked it out.

    Misery guts


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    #83
    haminka
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭haminka


    Weatherproof79 wrote: »
    Misery guts

    In what? As I said already, we have plenty of great Christmas spirit in our house. We'd sit around a fire, watching a nice movie, play games, go out for long walks during Christmas, have fun together, all those things we miss out on in our everyday life. My daughter enjoys creating stuff so to her sitting down and decorating cookies or making her own Christmas cards and decoration is what Christmas is about.
    There's nothing wrong with Santa for her either. She believes in Santa like she believes in Cinderella, fairies and God. It's a nice fairy-tale and she loves her fairy-tale stories and has a great imagination. So no, believing that Santa brings all the presents and is what Christmas is about is not a part of my family tradition.


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    #84
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    We grew up thinking Santy only brought a main present and a surprise. We were all grateful for what we got.

    My brother did the same with his kids. They were grateful.

    This notion that Santa is a marketing gimmick that facilitates giving kids too much is nonsense. If a parent can't say no to their child, then what Santa brings is only going to be a fraction of the problem over the course of the year.


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    #85
    Roger_007
    Registered Users Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    I remember finding out about Santa when I was about 7. I asked my Da why all the kids from the well-off families got really great presents from Santa when the rest of us got ordinary stuff. Without thinking he said that it was OK for them because they had plenty of money and we didn't.
    That was enough to convince me that if Santa was real, then he was certainly not very fair in his distribution of presents.


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    #86
    KatW4
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭KatW4


    This has happened in our school. Us teachers have gone mad with the santa stories. We've had reindeer dancing in our classrooms, letters from Santa and Santa is coming to visit them. But it was all undone by one child in 1st class who has told all the children that Santa isn't real.

    Why would a parent tell their young children this? Why ruin Christmas for hundreds of kids? I don't get it. They're little and they believe in magic so let them be innocent for as long as possible. I hate seeing children grow up before it's time to. They'll have enough hardship in life without ruining this one thing that they love so much when they are young!


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    #87
    Medusa22
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭Medusa22


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I'd be the first to admit I dislike pretty much all kids. I don't find kids cute. I have no interest in other people's kids. I don't fuss over kids. I have no interest in anyone's kids.

    But even me - miserable and all as I am - couldn't find it in me to ruin a kids Christmas by saying Santa is not real. Yesterday myself and my cousin were out for dinner and talking about what her daughter was getting for Christmas, and for the benefit of the two small kids eavesdropping at the table next to us, we talked about "what's Santa bringing?" "Did she tell Santa to drop some presents at her dads house too?" "Do you think Santa will take her soother in exchange for her toys Xmas morning" etc

    It's quite grim knowing there's people out there who'd gladly ruin that on a bunch of kids -- how miserable would you need to be, I wonder?

    Exactly this. I'm not a fan of kids myself but I'd never ever ruin the magic of Christmas for them, and believing in Santa really does make a difference, once you find out that he isn't real - Christmas is still enjoyable but it's never the same, it loses the magic, and I'd want them to believe for as long as possible.


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    #88
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,557 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I remember finding out about Santa when I was about 7. I asked my Da why all the kids from the well-off families got really great presents from Santa when the rest of us got ordinary stuff. Without thinking he said that it was OK for them because they had plenty of money and we didn't.
    That was enough to convince me that if Santa was real, then he was certainly not very fair in his distribution of presents.

    I don't think I ever looked at what other kids got and wondered why my gift was only ordinary.

    I got Battle Cat one year. There wasn't another toy in the world that could have topped that.


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    #89
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Medusa22 wrote: »
    ...but I'd never ever ruin the magic of Christmas for them, and believing in Santa really does make a difference, once you find out that he isn't real - Christmas is still enjoyable but it's never the same, it loses the magic, and I'd want them to believe for as long as possible.

    Well said, and very true.


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    #90
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    ch750536 wrote: »
    The only reason we perpetuate this santa nonsense is because it is commercially required to do so. Think about it.

    Parents make kids believe you get presents for being good, which out of parents control. You even get the kids to write a shopping list of what will prove they have been good. (FFS people, seriously!!!11!!!1)
    Parents want kids to be happy.
    Parents buy enough stuff to make kids (& therefore themselves) happy.
    Corporations give an evil laugh at all the $$$

    The beauty of all this is the way they have made parents believe the whole santa thing is about the kids, it's not, it's for the parents. You are an evil crazy bitch if you don't persuade your kids that some guy who lives forever at the north pole makes gifts for every kid on the planet which he distributes in one night by flying on a magic sleigh pulled by a glowing nosed reindeer.

    Christmas in our house is about gifts partly. Gifts are always nice. More than anything though it is about spending quality time together, playing silly games, going for walks, doing jigsaws and calling in on friends.

    WOW! Nobody else is like that. We should copy you.

    The self righteousness of the atheist anti-santy brigade here reminds me of a religious neighbour I had growing up who was similarly anti-materialist and had to be kept away from the neighbourhood kids lest she spill the beans for their own good. Same rhethoric about family and walks except she'd add in religious pieties about the birth of our Lord, and "His Season". To be fair she, when she wasn't destroying the pagan myth of santy for 4 year olds, used to help out at soup kitchens on Christmas Day.


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    #91
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    What my folks did worked for us -

    Let us believe in Santa, but explained things to us like this, so we wouldn't ask for mental amounts of gifts - you know how making presents costs Santa lots of money? Well he doesn't have that much money. So Mammy and daddy have to pay for half of it because that way he can give presents to the kids whose mammies and daddies have no money. So if what you want costs too much, it means some poor little girl with no money won't get a nice present and you want everyone to get presents, don't you?

    Made us aware that things cost money but didn't spoil the magic of believing in Santa.


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