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Nvidia RTX Discussion

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    #92
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Not going to see a decent value card until Intel launch IMHO, nVidia have too much of a monopoly.

    We're heading towards this bizarre situation in the consumer space where AMD will be the major CPU competitor and Intel the major GPU competitor.


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    #93
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    There's still hope for AMD if they have something similar up their sleeve for next year at 7nm. They surely knew about the way these designs were going to go by talking to microsoft. If microsoft worked with Nvidia to push this RTX technology they surely have kept AMD in the loop since they supply their console APU's.

    AMD themselves have been touting some multi core architecture for a while and people assumed Ryzen for gpus. Maybe it's something like RTX instead. We'll have to wait and see.


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    #94
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    It's not just a marketing video though. If you truly were a game developer you would understand the implications of this hardware.

    Of course we will have to see how it performs but these kinds of gpu designs are here to stay.


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    #95
    keffiyeh
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭keffiyeh


    BloodBath wrote: »
    It's not just a marketing video though. If you truly were a game developer you would understand the implications of this hardware.

    Actually https://www.resetera.com/threads/raytraced-sottr-runs-at-30-50-fps-1080p-on-1200-nvidia-rtx-2080-ti-up-bf5-doesnt-hit-1080-60.63321/

    Additional actually... most of the beauty of this is down to software, not hardware. The chip is just a dedicated processor, a lot like the first days of phys-x...

    That link should really be checked out by people getting too excited about this. It absolutely *is* a *marketing* video. Real world results are pretty unimpressive right now.


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    #96
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    Ok you do realise this is a brand new completely different architecture right? That the drivers are still a work in progress and that those demos were hobbled together from older titles not designed with this in mind and not optimised at all. They were used purely for demonstration purposes.

    The software to do this this has been around for years. The hardware is the revolutionary part. It may not be ready yet but I would not read much into some leaked frame rate captures.


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    #97
    earthwormjack
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭earthwormjack


    https://www.techradar.com/au/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti

    Some more small impressions if anyone cares to look.

    Going by the link below, I think I'll wait until gen 2 for these RTX GPUs. Great tech and a genuine jump in PC graphics but not worth it yet for me, especially as I'd only be jumping in at the 2070 level card anyway. Looking forward to real benchmarks with and without ray tracing enabled.


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    #98
    Squaredude
    Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭Squaredude


    2080Ti not able to hit 60fps@1080p with ray tracing turned on
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia-rtx-2080-ti-hands-on


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    #99
    Blazer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,418 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    You’d have to be off your rocker to get a 1st gen ray tracing card or flush with cash.
    And most of us here probably game at a minimum of 1440p if not 4K for those of us with a 1080ti.
    Would you really flog your 1080ti card for 300-400 and splash out over a grand on a 2080ti and then discover that your expensive new card can’t hit the refresh rate of your expensive monitor with Ray tracing enabled or downgrade to a lower resolution ?


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    #100
    Dcully
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dcully


    Squaredude wrote: »
    2080Ti not able to hit 60fps@1080p with ray tracing turned on
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia-rtx-2080-ti-hands-on


    I just find this hilarious, i knew myself it was struggling in the nvidia demo but nice to see it confirmed.
    Early days ofcourse.


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    #101
    Venom
    Registered Users Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭Venom


    Squaredude wrote: »
    2080Ti not able to hit 60fps@1080p with ray tracing turned on
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia-rtx-2080-ti-hands-on


    I would be very surprised if that is the case with final drivers and the finished game. I fully expect a big performance hit when ray tracing is turned on, but it would be brand destroying if the 2000 series dropped the ball so badly at 1080p.

    Blazer wrote: »
    You’d have to be off your rocker to get a 1st gen ray tracing card or flush with cash.
    And most of us here probably game at a minimum of 1440p if not 4K for those of us with a 1080ti.
    Would you really flog your 1080ti card for 300-400 and splash out over a grand on a 2080ti and then discover that your expensive new card can’t hit the refresh rate of your expensive monitor with Ray tracing enabled or downgrade to a lower resolution ?


    While there will always be those that need to have the latest and greatest, I think the people pre-ordering these cards without even seeing any gaming benchmarks or reviews are out of their minds.


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    #102
    keffiyeh
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭keffiyeh


    Venom wrote: »
    it would be brand destroying


    Lads let's chill out shall we...



    Again, there's nothing surprising about those numbers. Watch some videos on raytracing on youtube to understand what's actually happening; it's rather a lot. It's going to take a while to get real-time optimization down, etc. nVidia are well known for performance destroying gimmicks, it's been this way for years and that hasn't done anything to their brand. I'll hold out for an open source AMD or Vulkan driven version before I get mildly interested in getting this running on a rig of mine.


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    #103
    EoinHef
    Registered Users Posts: 5,572 ✭✭✭EoinHef


    Its the PC Building and Upgrading forum,most regulars know people here make a PCMR joke every now and then,its not a big deal.

    Report it and move on if it offends you but keep in mind your the only one here outraged by what was a throw away quip.

    People these days,being offended is a way of life for some!!


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    #104
    dreamers75
    Registered Users Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    That 5 minutes spent reading the last 3 pages I aint getting back.

    I am looking at a 2080TI purchase when they come out, RT looks great and all but ala BF1 amazing particle effects (which it has in 4k Ultra ) are simply stunning to look at. Star Wars is also a stunning stunning game (not very good ).....

    But they mean **** all when you someone is shooting at you. After a few rounds you dont even notice it.


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    #105
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    fitzgeme, keffiyeh, knock it off please. You both know you're winding the other up, and the provocation is dragging other forum users into your sh!tpost vortex with you. Everyone, please tone down the insults and (mock?-)outrage or the next one who'll be triggered is me, and then the thread will be sanitised of both bad posts and bad posters.


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    #106
    Mr Crispy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,675 ✭✭✭Mr Crispy


    Nvidia Clarifies - RTX in games doesn't mean Ray Tracing

    So RTX enabled games can lack real-time ray tracing, and instead use the deep learning stuff?

    These are all the announced games that will support real-time ray tracing;
    • Assetto Corsa Competizione
    • Atomic Heart
    • Battlefield V
    • Control
    • Enlisted
    • Justice
    • JX3
    • MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries
    • Metro Exodus
    • ProjectDH
    • Shadow of the Tomb Raider

    The others on the list of 21 games presumably use DLSS or summat.


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    #107
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    Its an interesting debate, seems one camp is all about framerates and the other camp is about the ray tracing. I wonder if Nvidia had launched a card 20-30% faster than its predecessor (what they nocturnally do) would people complain? I suppose you are getting what you always got a modest but real frame rate improvement plus you pay the extra for the RTX parts. Without having the RTX on consumer card the devs wont work wih it, but you cannot optimise and improve without have games for it and a wide user base. Its a catch 22. People are saying to wait for the 7 or 8 u process next year but from what I have heard from intel plants, this small a process has yield problems and could be a long way off.


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    #108
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Predictions of only a 10-20% gain. Very good point re the stop gap IMHO.



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    #109
    keffiyeh
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭keffiyeh


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Predictions of only a 10-20% gain. Very good point re the stop gap IMHO.


    It's definitely first gen stuff. I predict software version within two Nvidia gpu cycles and I'll also go ahead and predict AMD will hold off until they have a software solution too.


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    #110
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    I can't see AMD ever competing in the high end space; unless nVidia drive the prices up so much they can bring their professional ranges to bear. They're quite content producing mid range cards, APUs, and consoles chips. Their APUs are closly linked to their console chips and are getting metter and better, especially in the mobile space.


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    #111
    keffiyeh
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭keffiyeh


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    I can't see AMD ever competing in the high end space; unless nVidia drive the prices up so much they can bring their professional ranges to bear. They're quite content producing mid range cards, APUs, and consoles chips. Their APUs are closly linked to their console chips and are getting metter and better, especially in the mobile space.

    They can compete with xx80 non-ti's, they've shown that. They also have Intel to think about now. Miners deflated the hype for their latest cycle, but I have high hopes for them. I mean, most people thought they were over during Bulldozer and look at them now. Shipping RGB stock fans with their excellent and cheap high core Fount consumer chips. I hope their dark days of Bulldozer and rebranding last years' cards will be well behind them soon.


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    #112
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    Time will tell...pre ordering is an interesting one for hardware. Problem is if you dont pre order the chances of getting a car in the next 6 months is limited. Then you get one and 9 months later your card is no longer the state of the art. With games there is no supply issue, so pre ordering is silly till you see if the game is good. With hardware is it a gamble worth taking? Your existing card is at it most valuable second hand today...so I feel if you ride the upgrade train Pre ordering for RTX is the only way to have some time untill the next thing comes along.


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    #113
    Dcully
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dcully


    Im all for innovation and new tech i love it im a nerd like that.
    Ray tracing looks great but there is no way in hell i would sacrifice high framerate for such an effect or indeed any effect in multiplayer or single player for that matter, frame rate is king for me in akll games and genres.
    Right now im still on a gtx970 and and i5 2500K on a 1440 monitor and most games are achieving 100fps then you have a few games i need to turn down visuals to get a solid 90+ fps, my point is as i said for me its frames before everything else, even low settings look great at 1440 anyways and ultra settings really only shine on a 4k display anyways.

    Im planning a new build very soon, i was waiting on this nvidia announcement first so im really in limbo right now trying to decide.
    The gamesn article with framerate as low as 35 fps at 1080 is shocking , yeah i know drivers optimization etec etc but come on guys 35fps at 1080 for a €1200 GPU is very alarming, no amount of optimizing or drivers will bring that it close to my desired 90fps [minimum] at 1440 if its struggling to achieve 40fps at 1080?

    If these cards delivered performance where one was guaranteed 144fps @ 1440 with ray tracing i would buy, not to mention a lot of people were hoping to move on to 4k 144hz with these new cards.
    Seems to me this kind of performance[with ray tracing] is a long way off.
    Its as if nvidia said lets just get it out there and show off this tech and hope the sheep will buy into it.


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    #114
    Dcully
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dcully


    I wonder if this guy is lurking in here somewhere :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MIwDY0-C2o


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    #115
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    keffiyeh wrote: »
    They can compete with xx80 non-ti's, they've shown that.

    In benchmarks independent of other factors maybe, but otherwise no. They were priced out of the running (and I don't mean just because of crypto demands, the base RRP was too high, even during that AMD subsidized 'promo' period)

    Then you've other factors like much heavier power demands.

    At least now Vega 64 is dropping some places to €500-550, which is decent considering it's better than the 1080 but it's a bit late in the day now.

    RX580's a great card though. In many ways it's amazing they're doing as well as they are with such small resources compared to Nvidia or Intel.


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    #116
    jebidiah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭jebidiah


    I think this is similar to 4k gaming. It's not 100% there yet. Not for the mainstream gamer. Some will adopt it early some won't. And we will all have to listen them argue. It remains to be seen if the new cards are significantly better than the current gen with ray tracing off. I'd expect them to be able to do 4k and higher frame rates maybe bringing that resolution closer to the main stream.


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    #117
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Presumably HardwareCanucks will be giving the lowdown on performance difference today or tomorrow from what they mentioned in their latest video.


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    #118
    keffiyeh
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭keffiyeh


    TerrorFirmer wrote: »
    In benchmarks independent of other factors maybe, but otherwise no. They were priced out of the running (and I don't mean just because of crypto demands, the base RRP was too high, even during that AMD subsidized 'promo' period)

    Then you've other factors like much heavier power demands.

    At least now Vega 64 is dropping some places to €500-550, which is decent considering it's better than the 1080 but it's a bit late in the day now.

    RX580's a great card though. In many ways it's amazing they're doing as well as they are with such small resources compared to Nvidia or Intel.

    Benchmarks / performance is what I was talking about, of course.


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    #119
    Blazer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,418 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    Dcully wrote: »
    Im planning a new build very soon, i was waiting on this nvidia announcement first so im really in limbo right now trying to decide.

    Yep it will be a good time to pick up a 1080ti for cheap.
    I picked up a brand new one for my 18 month old 1080 plus €250 off a mate as the white card didn’t suit his pc. Fantastic card and a great upgrade.
    I had paid €500 for my 1080 as the ti launches were just around the corner and prices had dropped.


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    #120
    Dcully
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dcully


    It wasn't 1080p, it was 4k like all of the game demos there. A brand new unreleased game on a brand new graphics architecture and it was a tech demo thrown together and not optimised for high frames. People are reading far too much into this.



    The pcgames article states 1080p on their hands on.

    to quote them "IT’S TOUGH NOT TO BE CONCERNED WHEN THE ULTRA EXPENSIVE, ULTRA ENTHUSIAST RTX 2080 TI ISN’T ABLE TO HIT 60FPS AT 1080P SETTINGS"


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    #121
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    The thing is there is only partial ray tracing going on and you can choose what to use ray tracing for and what not. I'll have to see what the RTX integration is like on UE4 but it's not out yet. It's coming in the next version.

    It's still heavily rasterised. You can use the tensor core for super sampling AA and/or high quality up-scaling while using the RT core for whatever traces you want to do.

    The amount of calculations you can do on the new card has skyrocketed compared to the 10 series. It's too early for most people to get excited about as it's going to take time to really see the results of what these things can do. I get that, but there is no doubt in my mind that this a huge leap forward that is the new standard in gpu design.


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