Marathon Improvers Thread.

boydkev · 17-07-2017 3:59pm

I am looking for some advice, For previous marathons i have had holidays early during a plan so it had little impact but i am going 2 months later this year and wondering how much i need to get done while away.
In the P&D 55 plan, I will need to do this while away.
F- Rest (Travelling Evening)
S- 7 +Speed
S- 18 LSR
M- rest
T- 7 +Speed
W- 12 Medium
T- Rest
F- 10 LT
S- 5 Recovery
S- 20 LSR (Travelling Evening)

What do people suggest i concentrate on while away with regard to long runs etc.....

The Davestator · 17-07-2017 4:12pm

boydkev wrote: »

I am looking for some advice, For previous marathons i have had holidays early during a plan so it had little impact but i am going 2 months later this year and wondering how much i need to get done while away.
In the P&D 55 plan, I will need to do this while away.
F- Rest (Travelling Evening)
S- 7 +Speed
S- 18 LSR
M- rest
T- 7 +Speed
W- 12 Medium
T- Rest
F- 10 LT
S- 5 Recovery
S- 20 LSR (Travelling Evening)

What do people suggest i concentrate on while away with regard to long runs etc.....

I think that a lot will depend on how understanding your other half is!

Seriously though - if it's going to be hot, you'll need to be careful. Very hard to do hard sessions in high temps. To get ahead of the high temps, you'll need to get out early which means an early night (is that doable?)

jaggiebunnet · 17-07-2017 4:26pm

having just come back from hot conditions for the last couple of weeks doing P&D (thankfully early in the plan) I struggled, down to all the above, even with early nights, dehydration was a killer - too much food and drink, bad rest and then the heat itself, even at 7am it was 23C. Don't think i hit planned pace at any point but did all runs bar the last recovery one. So never slept too much as you can imagine!

adrian522 · 17-07-2017 5:13pm

How long are you away for? Try and have your week away coincide with one of the P&D recovery weeks. You'll have to re-jig the plan slightly. The key runs in the week you've posted are the 18 LSR, the LT run and the 20 mile run.

If you could rearrange the previous week to get the long run done on Friday you could take your rest day the day after you arrive. The 7 mile run is not that important, any run you get done that day will be fine.

The 12 Mile run is also a bit of a "nice to get done" but don't panic if it gets cut short or dropped altogether, there are so many in the plan that missing one won't make much difference.

Try and get your LT run in. I'd aim to have the night before an early (and preferably alcohol free) night and get it done early. The Sunday run if you can get it in do otherwise maybe push it to the Monday, but the 20 Mile run is important in that plan.

At the end of the day whatever runs you get done are a bonus as missing a few won't make much difference over the course of the plan.

boydkev · 17-07-2017 5:21pm

The Davestator wrote: »

I think that a lot will depend on how understanding your other half is!

Seriously though - if it's going to be hot, you'll need to be careful. Very hard to do hard sessions in high temps. To get ahead of the high temps, you'll need to get out early which means an early night (is that doable?)

LOL, My other half is very understanding but on holiday could be a different story.
I dont think early nights are a problem as we are going with a 7 & 5 year old.

I would also plan on going put as early as possible as heat WILL be a problem near Salou in the middle of august.

Van.Bosch · 17-07-2017 6:52pm

Has anyone used the sub 4 asics plan, it looks good to me but less mileage than P&D which I have done previously but I havnt done enough running year to date to do that.

hot buttered scones · 17-07-2017 8:30pm

boydkev wrote: »

I am looking for some advice, For previous marathons i have had holidays early during a plan so it had little impact but i am going 2 months later this year and wondering how much i need to get done while away.
In the P&D 55 plan, I will need to do this while away.
F- Rest (Travelling Evening)
S- 7 +Speed
S- 18 LSR
M- rest
T- 7 +Speed
W- 12 Medium
T- Rest
F- 10 LT
S- 5 Recovery
S- 20 LSR (Travelling Evening)

What do people suggest i concentrate on while away with regard to long runs etc.....

If you could shift the long runs around it might help. What about something like:

M-10LT
T-4 rec
W-Rest
Th- 18 LSR
F- Rest (Travelling Evening)
S- 7 +Speed
S- 11MLR
M- rest
T- 7 +Speed
W- 12 Medium
T- Rest
F- 10 LT
S- 5 Recovery
S- (Travelling Evening)
M- 20 LSR

Just get out early in the morning if you can and don't worry too much about pace if its hot, especially for the LT run. Just don't burn yourself out on holidays trying to do too much.

denis b · 17-07-2017 8:48pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Question regarding LSR's or even longer runs like the 10m mid week in P&D.

If you do these early in the morning, how wrecked are you for the rest of the day? I feel shattered, functional but really drained. Possibly to do with not eating right quick enough after but just wondering for those who do the food etc right, how much of an impact does it have?

I would normally do most of my runs pre-breakfast on the P&D plan at this stage. For me staying hydrated during the week is absolutely key. Post run chocolate milk for the more demanding and longer sessions on return help as well. More milk and porridge after shower seem to settle everything down as well and after that plenty of fluids during the working day.

Have not noticed any residual tiredness most days to be honest.

Van.Bosch · 17-07-2017 9:46pm

denis b wrote: »

I would normally do most of my runs pre-breakfast on the P&D plan at this stage. For me staying hydrated during the week is absolutely key. Post run chocolate milk for the more demanding and longer sessions on return help as well. More milk and porridge after shower seem to settle everything down as well and after that plenty of fluids during the working day.

Have not noticed any residual tiredness most days to be honest.

Thanks, to be honest I think I don't have a strong enough base for the P&D, was only doing 20/30 k a week which is too steep a jump. I wasn't enjoying it at all and with a jump like that I'm risking injury too. Going to ease back onto a lighter plan but possibly keep the P&D long runs.

The P&D plan is (I think) brilliant for people looking to improve themselves whereas I'm more in the need to get myself in shape.

denis b · 17-07-2017 10:28pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Thanks, to be honest I think I don't have a strong enough base for the P&D, was only doing 20/30 k a week which is too steep a jump. I wasn't enjoying it at all and with a jump like that I'm risking injury too. Going to ease back onto a lighter plan but possibly keep the P&D long runs.

The P&D plan is (I think) brilliant for people looking to improve themselves whereas I'm more in the need to get myself in shape.

Good call at this stage and absolutely right to keep your eye on the bigger picture.

chrislad · 20-07-2017 4:01pm

I'm week 9 into a modified Hal Higdon plan, and I think I'm going to step back into the regular Intermediate 1.

For comparsion (in miles) this was was - 6, 10, 6, 8, 13 - The Hal one is 4, 5, 4, 13 (with an extra rest day, must be a step back week)

The next 6 midweek runs are all 10 miles - the HH one is 8,8,5,8,5,8.

I've adjusted my plan and I'm losing 46 miles over 9 weeks, which should make things a bit easier.

Itziger · 21-07-2017 10:36am

chrislad wrote: »

I'm week 9 into a modified Hal Higdon plan, and I think I'm going to step back into the regular Intermediate 1.

For comparsion (in miles) this was was - 6, 10, 6, 8, 13 - The Hal one is 4, 5, 4, 13 (with an extra rest day, must be a step back week)

The next 6 midweek runs are all 10 miles - the HH one is 8,8,5,8,5,8.

I've adjusted my plan and I'm losing 46 miles over 9 weeks, which should make things a bit easier.

I'm not familiar with the HH plans at all but 8 mile - not to mention 5 mile! - midweek runs hardly seem great preparation for a marathon.

chrislad · 21-07-2017 11:24am

Itziger wrote: »

I'm not familiar with the HH plans at all but 8 mile - not to mention 5 mile! - midweek runs hardly seem great preparation for a marathon.

That's probably why I had it higher in the first place. I'm still deciding really. I'll probably change some of the later 5s to 8, and one of the 8s to 10.

I'm really apathetic about this marathon. I just want to get through it, as I don't plan to do one again, as I'm just not enjoying the distance or training any more.

denis b · 21-07-2017 4:22pm

chrislad wrote: »

That's probably why I had it higher in the first place. I'm still deciding really. I'll probably change some of the later 5s to 8, and one of the 8s to 10.

I'm really apathetic about this marathon. I just want to get through it, as I don't plan to do one again, as I'm just not enjoying the distance or training any more.

Is it worth tackling the marathon now? It's a significant use of your time and resources. Had a similar moment or two over the last week or so and decided that I want to do it. Might be worth having a think about what you want for now.

All the best whatever you decide.

chrislad · 21-07-2017 7:35pm

Yeah, I'm not going to back out at this stage. I've paid for the entry, flights, and accommodation already! It's going to probably be the only time I get into Berlin, as I'm never going to GFA, so I want to do it. I'm just a bit tired, and I'm really busy in work right now so that's probably not helping. If it were a local marathon, I could drop it, but not this one. I'll get through it, I'm just in the regret stage of the training right now. I've a rest week this week so that will perk me up I'm sure!

denis b · 21-07-2017 8:08pm

chrislad wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not going to back out at this stage. I've paid for the entry, flights, and accommodation already! It's going to probably be the only time I get into Berlin, as I'm never going to GFA, so I want to do it. I'm just a bit tired, and I'm really busy in work right now so that's probably not helping. If it were a local marathon, I could drop it, but not this one. I'll get through it, I'm just in the regret stage of the training right now. I've a rest week this week so that will perk me up I'm sure!

Fair play Chris. Will continue to follow. Had forgotten that the goal was Berlin.

Unthought Known · 22-07-2017 11:10am

Just looking for some advice on the next couple of weeks of the meno plan if anyone can help? I'm running the Fingal 10k tomorrow so the plan for the next couple of weeks (from Monday) is currently:

Wk1: 3m Rec, rest, 7m easy, 10m with 6MP, 3m rec, rest, 16m easy
Wk2: rest, 7m easy, 80min progression, 3m rec, rest, 5m easy, 18m easy

My problem is I'm flying to England early Saturday straight to a family party. On Sunday I'm flying to Spain and I don't think I'll have the time (or inclination) to run the 16m.

If I was to change Wk1 to this (running the 16m this Friday):

Wk1: 3m Rec, rest, 10m with 6MP, 3m rec, 16m easy, rest, rest

am I putting too much pressure on myself keeping the MP run on Wednesday? If anything I'd prefer to drop the Wednesday run back to all easy rather than skip the long run.

In Spain I shouldn't have a problem keeping to the plan. Did it last year with the Boards novice plan and it's actually great starting a run at 5am and watching the sun come up

adrian522 · 22-07-2017 11:17am

Unthought Known wrote: »

Just looking for some advice on the next couple of weeks of the meno plan if anyone can help? I'm running the Fingal 10k tomorrow so the plan for the next couple of weeks (from Monday) is currently:

Wk1: 3m Rec, rest, 7m easy, 10m with 6MP, 3m rec, rest, 16m easy
Wk2: rest, 7m easy, 80min progression, 3m rec, rest, 5m easy, 18m easy

My problem is I'm flying to England early Saturday straight to a family party. On Sunday I'm flying to Spain and I don't think I'll have the time (or inclination) to run the 16m.

If I was to change Wk1 to this (running the 16m this Friday):

Wk1: 3m Rec, rest, 10m with 6MP, 3m rec, 16m easy, rest, rest

am I putting too much pressure on myself keeping the MP run on Wednesday? If anything I'd prefer to drop the Wednesday run back to all easy rather than skip the long run.

In Spain I shouldn't have a problem keeping to the plan. Did it last year with the Boards novice plan and it's actually great starting a run at 5am and watching the sun come up

Could you do the 10 with 6 @ MP on Tuesday, recovery Wednesday, Easy run Thursday (or a rest day here), then long run Friday, then take the weekend off?

Don't sweat it though, missing a run at this stage of the plan won't have any negative impact on race day.

Unthought Known · 22-07-2017 12:48pm

adrian522 wrote: »

Could you do the 10 with 6 @ MP on Tuesday, recovery Wednesday, Easy run Thursday (or a rest day here), then long run Friday, then take the weekend off?

Don't sweat it though, missing a run at this stage of the plan won't have any negative impact on race day.

Thanks, that sounds good to me. I'll see how the legs are after tomorrow.

JacEim · 23-07-2017 10:16pm

Hi all
Just stumbled across this thread - hopefully someone might be able to help me out...
Did my first and only marathon in Dublin in 2015 and was thrilled with a 3:35 time. The novices thread was my most visited website that year and it was absolutely tremendous help (Dubgirl and everyone else were brilliant!). I was very comfortable on the day and remember that I could have kept going at the finish line so didn't leave everything out on the course (but was a great way to feel when finishing!!) Have kept running since but haven't entered any races this year. My last race was a 10 miler last year in 70.15 (carrying an Achilles injury) and I've been doing 20-30 miles per week for the last 3 months before starting the marathon program.
I'm doing the Asics 3:30 program as felt the 4:00 program worked really well for me (I don't expect to be 25 mins better than the 3:30 plan!!).
Anyway, I'm in the habit of having an A,B and possibly C targets. I was thinking of having sub 3:30 as my C target, 3:25 as the B target and 3:20 as the A (very aspirational) target.
I'm trying to use the 3:30 plan but retrofitting it to try to train for 3:20. For example - today I was supposed to do 12 miles in 1:48 (9.00 min mile), so I did the 12 miles at 1:32 (7.45 min mile). Couple of questions:
1. How much do I need to adjust the speeds on the 3:30 plan to train for a 3:20 time? (I felt that 7.45 min miles was too fast today).
2. Am I crazy trying to retrofit the 3:30 plan? Do I need to be increasing the mileage as well as the speed - e.g. Should it have been an extra two miles today and 30 seconds faster than what the 3:30 plan called for?
3. While I have been keeping a reasonably decent base level of fitness, I haven't been training for any events this year so I have no idea yet what I will be able to Peak out at for DCM - and will be another 5-6 weeks until I have really focused on executing the plan and building my fitness. Am I mad to be even considering a 3:20?
4. I like the 16 week Asics plans - even though these 4:00 and 3:30 plans are probably a bit old now. I downloads the Asics APP and it created a different looking plan which I just didn't like the look of.

Any thoughts? I'm not precious - tear strips off the above if necessary..
Cheers

Singer · 23-07-2017 10:50pm

JacEim wrote: »

Hi all
Just stumbled across this thread - hopefully someone might be able to help me out...

Hello again, and welcome back

JacEim wrote: »

I'm doing the Asics 3:30 program as felt the 4:00 program worked really well for me (I don't expect to be 25 mins better than the 3:30 plan!!).

Is https://www.chooseachallenge.com/wp-content/uploads/ASICS_TRAININGPLANS_Sub-3.30.pdf what you're doing?

JacEim wrote: »

1. How much do I need to adjust the speeds on the 3:30 plan to train for a 3:20 time? (I felt that 7.45 min miles was too fast today).

I reckon that's too fast. 8:30 is probably around right. By all means do the last few miles faster, and maybe do one or two longer runs in and around that pace, but generally that seems a little aggressive for 3:20ish.

JacEim wrote: »

4. I like the 16 week Asics plans - even though these 4:00 and 3:30 plans are probably a bit old now. I downloads the Asics APP and it created a different looking plan which I just didn't like the look of.

I don't think running plans get stale over time

The mid-week run and overall milage seem a little light to me in the Asics plans I've seen, if you're going to change it up then I'd consider going longer mid-week and generally adding on distance to some of the mid-week runs. But then again at that stage you're basically running a different plan :eek:

Van.Bosch · 24-07-2017 12:12am

In terms of the asics plans being too light midweek, is that for a particular pace? The sub 4 one seems to be about 6/6/6/6/7/7/8 type thing which I thought was light too but is similar to the boards plan, so I reckon it's okay for a sub 4 plan?

Thanks

JacEim · 24-07-2017 10:00am

Thanks Singer - that's the plan I'm using. So in summary, taking approx 30 seconds off the LSR at the weekend and adding a little bit more distance to the midweek runs.

Do I need to up the pace a little more on the interval / speed work ? If it's calling for intervals at 5k pace (which by October would be at around 15kph) then I'm trying to run them at 16kph for the 3.20 factor. I always get confused on these mid week speed sessions - are you supposed to be using your PB speed (as long as it is reasonably relevant), your current time for that distance or what you expect it would be for that distance having completed a marathon program? Eg i know my 5k pb is 19.52 but would currently probably do around 21.30, and if I do one in December would expect to be closer to 19.40 after doing this training
Does this make any sense even ?
I

Baxtardo · 24-07-2017 8:51pm

What's the general consensus on the HH plans as an improver? DCM 2016 was my first marathon, looking to go from 4:02 to maybe around 3:30 this year. I saw it mentioned above that the plan seems a bit light on midweek runs? I'm conscious of this being the fifth week of plans and need to get something locked in fairly soon. I'm increasing from an average 30km per week so far this year. HM PB is 1:34, 5k 19:24, both run recently. Below is the Intermediate 1 plan I've been half / sort of following. Thanks.

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51139/Marathon-Intermediate-1-Training-Program

Some great advice on this thread so far, great resource to have.

Van.Bosch · 24-07-2017 9:59pm

Baxtardo wrote: »

What's the general consensus on the HH plans as an improver? DCM 2016 was my first marathon, looking to go from 4:02 to maybe around 3:30 this year. I saw it mentioned above that the plan seems a bit light on midweek runs? I'm conscious of this being the fifth week of plans and need to get something locked in fairly soon. I'm increasing from an average 30km per week so far this year. HM PB is 1:34, 5k 19:24, both run recently. Below is the Intermediate 1 plan I've been half / sort of following. Thanks.

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51139/Marathon-Intermediate-1-Training-Program

Some great advice on this thread so far, great resource to have.

I'm far from an expert but to drop from 4:02 to 3:30 I think you need a more aggressive plan, risk is though that increasing the mileage that quick will likely cause injuries. Maybe stick to the plan but add a mile or two to the longest midweek run?

Singer · 24-07-2017 10:16pm

JacEim wrote: »

I always get confused on these mid week speed sessions - are you supposed to be using your PB speed (as long as it is reasonably relevant), your current time for that distance or what you expect it would be for that distance having completed a marathon program?
I

Run to your what you reckon is your current 5k pace, not your old or target one!

Baxtardo · 24-07-2017 11:37pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I'm far from an expert but to drop from 4:02 to 3:30 I think you need a more aggressive plan, risk is though that increasing the mileage that quick will likely cause injuries. Maybe stick to the plan but add a mile or two to the longest midweek run?

Thanks for the feedback. I've also been looking at the Asics 3:30 plan posted above. Seems to be a more balanced plan, with longer midweek runs and one LSR / short run at weekends. This might be a better option?

In terms of getting times down, is more miles in the legs the number one priority, or should I be focusing on more varied midweek runs (speedwork / hillwork etc.) also?

Murph_D · 24-07-2017 11:50pm

Baxtardo wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. I've also been looking at the Asics 3:30 plan posted above. Seems to be a more balanced plan, with longer midweek runs and one LSR / short run at weekends. This might be a better option?

In terms of getting times down, is more miles in the legs the number one priority, or should I be focusing on more varied midweek runs (speedwork / hillwork etc.) also?

Most reasonably advanced plans combine one or two midweek sessions (speed and/or tempo) and a long run, the latter having elements of quality or 'stuff' (progressive pace, fast finish, alternating pace, etc). There would also be 3-4 easy recovery days, and a mileage of 50-90 kms per week.

With your 5k/HM times, your issue is endurance, not speed, so what I would be concentrating on is mileage, building up sensibly from where you are now. 30k is certainly a little light, and you would want to be building this up slowly (adding 10% per week, stepback week every four weeks or so).

It may be too late for you this year to increase that mileage safely and sufficiently. There are cases here of runners getting excellent results off very low mileage, but they tend to be the exception. Many intermediate to advanced marathon plans suggest you are doing a minimum of 50kms a week before even taking them on (to avoid injury risk from increased intensity as well as increased mileage).

Baxtardo · 25-07-2017 12:19am

Murph_D wrote: »

Most reasonably advanced plans combine one or two midweek sessions (speed and/or tempo) and a long run, the latter having elements of quality or 'stuff' (progressive pace, fast finish, alternating pace, etc). There would also be 3-4 easy recovery days, and a mileage of 50-90 kms per week.

With your 5k/HM times, your issue is endurance, not speed, so what I would be concentrating on is mileage, building up sensibly from where you are now. 30k is certainly a little light, and you would want to be building this up slowly (adding 10% per week, stepback week every four weeks or so).

It may be too late for you this year to increase that mileage safely and sufficiently. There are cases here of runners getting excellent results off very low mileage, but they tend to be the exception. Many intermediate to advanced marathon plans suggest you are doing a minimum of 50kms a week before even taking them on (to avoid injury risk from increased intensity as well as increased mileage).

Interesting advice there. I should have got myself in order a few months ago! I've probably been averaging 60k p/w including cycling. I did over 50k last week with the plan (running) and the body feels fine. I'm still a bit confused which plan to go with, I'll do some more research but either way the idea seems to more more miles in a sensible manner.

You are bang on with the endurance vs. speed issue..always been the way!

Thanks for the info.

boydkev · 25-07-2017 7:51am

Baxtardo wrote: »

What's the general consensus on the HH plans as an improver? DCM 2016 was my first marathon, looking to go from 4:02 to maybe around 3:30 this year. I saw it mentioned above that the plan seems a bit light on midweek runs? I'm conscious of this being the fifth week of plans and need to get something locked in fairly soon. I'm increasing from an average 30km per week so far this year. HM PB is 1:34, 5k 19:24, both run recently. Below is the Intermediate 1 plan I've been half / sort of following. Thanks.

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51139/Marathon-Intermediate-1-Training-Program

Some great advice on this thread so far, great resource to have.

I am the same as yourself, Did DCM 16 in 4.00 and plan to get under the 3.30 this year. My PB are very similar with HM 1.36 and 5k 19.40. I looked at doing the HH Interdediate but then went down the P&D 55, 18 Week plan. Currently on week 5 and this week is 45 miles. I am finding the plan really good and managable. The LT runs are tough and the increase in mileage is steady.

peterc14 · 27-07-2017 1:15pm

Singer wrote: »

Is https://www.chooseachallenge.com/wp-content/uploads/ASICS_TRAININGPLANS_Sub-3.30.pdf what you're doing?

This is also the plan I am following so would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on it also.

Spirogyra · 27-07-2017 1:20pm

Has a 5k race any place in a Marathon plan?. There's one on Saturday the 13th. I'd really like to 'test' myself with one and it's important for 'variety' too. But it's unlikely I could do a very long run on the Sunday. Any thoughts regarding 'accommodating' such?. Thanks, S

adrian522 · 27-07-2017 1:39pm

I did a 5k (Parkrun) 2 weeks out last year. I think its a good blowout and good to get the body in touch with hurt of racing again and get the turnover going prior to the race.

No great downside to doing one as the recovery time isn't that significant and there is benefit there,

Rathfarnham is a good one in the run up to Dublin.

Spirogyra · 27-07-2017 1:59pm

Thanks Adrian, how many miles would you then run on Sunday?.

adrian522 · 27-07-2017 2:32pm

I ran 14 on the Sunday last year but at a very easy pace. That was 2 weeks out. 3 or more weeks before the race you could do more I guess.

The Black Oil · 27-07-2017 3:25pm

Heading out with a club 4hr+ group this weekend, hopefully.

ger664 · 28-07-2017 2:43am

adrian522 wrote: »

I did a 5k (Parkrun) 2 weeks out last year. I think its a good blowout and good to get the body in touch with hurt of racing again and get the turnover going prior to the race.

No great downside to doing one as the recovery time isn't that significant and there is benefit there,

Rathfarnham is a good one in the run up to Dublin.

A wise old coach told me that a 5K/4 mile race flat out the week before is good to get you into the swing of things. I questioned the proximity to the race and he said if you dont recover from it in 4-5 days you have overcooked your training, if you get injured same was going to happen in the marathon. Think he has a point.

Wubble Wubble · 28-07-2017 9:22am

peterc14 wrote: »

This is also the plan I am following so would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on it also.

I'm kind of following this, but between races and club sessions (Wednesdays) I am doing a lot of switching runs around. Week 1 was very soft, just to entice us in

16 x 200 in weeks 6 and 7 looks like a real heartbreaker. How did you get on with 12 x 200 in Week 2? (Same question to others following this plan)

Spirogyra · 28-07-2017 1:39pm

At what pace should a midweek (Thursday) long run be?.... could it be done as part of a club training session? 3 or 4 miles before and after ?.

adrian522 · 28-07-2017 1:53pm

It depends what plan you are following, and what the purpose of the run is.

What is the Club session? Also what are you doing the day before and after the long run?

peterc14 · 28-07-2017 3:26pm

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

I'm kind of following this, but between races and club sessions (Wednesdays) I am doing a lot of switching runs around. Week 1 was very soft, just to entice us in

16 x 200 in weeks 6 and 7 looks like a real heartbreaker. How did you get on with 12 x 200 in Week 2? (Same question to others following this plan)

I have missed a few of the speed sessions due to holidays etc. so cant really comment.
How important do you think the speed session is in the overall plan? I sometimes join a group speed session on the Tuesday however they do not do the same as the plan...would this matter much?

peterc14 · 28-07-2017 3:34pm

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

I'm kind of following this, but between races and club sessions (Wednesdays) I am doing a lot of switching runs around. Week 1 was very soft, just to entice us in

16 x 200 in weeks 6 and 7 looks like a real heartbreaker. How did you get on with 12 x 200 in Week 2? (Same question to others following this plan)

The saturday sometimes calls for 3/4M inc hill session or circuit...does this mean run 3/4 miles at easy pace then complete a hill type workout? What would be a good hill workout?

JacEim · 29-07-2017 10:48pm

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

I'm kind of following this, but between races and club sessions (Wednesdays) I am doing a lot of switching runs around. Week 1 was very soft, just to entice us in

16 x 200 in weeks 6 and 7 looks like a real heartbreaker. How did you get on with 12 x 200 in Week 2? (Same question to others following this plan)

Hi
I'm doing the Asics 3:30 plan, but I tend to do any of the speed sessions on the treadmill for two reasons - I work away a lot and am typically in different hotels and also am crap at managing big pace changes like this.
I found this run pretty ok (considering that I could probably not run 5k in less than 21 mins at the minute). I ran them at 16kph and did a couple extra to allow for the fact that I was on the treadmill. I really felt like every muscle / tendon / ligament was fully stretched and flexible at the end of the session (which I don't feel like after doing a regular or LS run...). More importantly, the 5m session the night after was fine...

The Black Oil · 30-07-2017 10:34am

Club LSR, be like.

Spirogyra · 30-07-2017 12:05pm

Ran 17 miles today, for the 3rd time in this 'cycle' and walked 1 .... at what point should I do 18 miles or 19 ? Don't want to 'burn out' too early ? with Dublin in mind.

Murph_D · 30-07-2017 6:51pm

Sounds about right for an improver marathon schedule. P&D 55 would be up to 18 miles 11 weeks out (next week). What schedule are you following, or are you winging it (sounds like you shouldn't be)?

Spirogyra · 30-07-2017 7:17pm

I'm not really following a 'fixed' plan, I'm more tailoring to my training schedule with my club and also some 'core classes'....I'm not sure whether I'm a Novice or Improver , probably more Improver.

Think though I will do 18 miles next weekend and do a 5K Fun Run the following Saturday for variety....

JohnDozer · 04-08-2017 4:37pm

Despite earlier posts suggesting I might have settled on doing the Boards plan, I did an about turn and launched into the P&D 55-70 plan. I'm currently debating dropping to the up to 55 plan after mesocycle 1. I've been able to do all the runs without any major problem bar a niggle related issue with the LT runs that doesn't affect me on any other runs, only on the LT runs. I've felt fatigued in general, but not overly so (I think). I haven't injured myself, but I do feel a little bit of buildup of tension in areas that suggest they are feeling the strain i.e. calves and achilles (These are not issues while running, more areas of tightness upon waking, and occasionally throughout the day). I guess I'm struggling to identify where the sweet spot is for what is normal fatigue and bodily strain while marathon training? Am I being a bit overly cautious and pulling the plug on a more ambitious plan a little too early, or is it simply an act of good self preservation and leaving the bigger more ambitious plan for another day out. I'll admit that my stretching and strengthening regime, while improved, is not what it should be. Diet and nutrition, while much improved are not what they should be. And lastly, keeping my runs in the recommended pace zones, while improved, are not what they should be.

Taking all that in consideration, my thinking is the 6 weeks has been a very good base building block, and that there is more to be gained by dropping to the 12 week up to 55 plan. (I might steal HBS's idea of squeezing in an extra 5 mile easy run on one rest day). All I'm throwing out there is the question that given I've been able to meet the requirements of the plan up to now, am I better off sticking with it for another couple of weeks to see how it goes, or make the call now based on the issues of concern outlined above.

hot buttered scones · 05-08-2017 12:16am

JohnDozer wrote:

Taking all that in consideration, my thinking is the 6 weeks has been a very good base building block, and that there is more to be gained by dropping to the 12 week up to 55 plan. (I might steal HBS's idea of squeezing in an extra 5 mile easy run on one rest day). All I'm throwing out there is the question that given I've been able to meet the requirements of the plan up to now, am I better off sticking with it for another couple of weeks to see how it goes, or make the call now based on the issues of concern outlined above.

I was going to do to 55-70 plan but I was put off by the midweek back to back MLRs (hard to fit in with work) and the fact that I felt maybe 70 was a bit too much. But at the moment I'm sort of feeling like maybe I'm not doing enough. However, I think I felt the same at this point last year and then a couple of weeks into Mesocycle 2 I knee I was doing enough. You could always do what I'm doing, but do the long runs and VO2 max sessions from the 55-70 plans - there's an extra interval in them I think. But yeah, stick with the plan your on for another couple of weeks and see how you get on.

hot buttered scones · 05-08-2017 12:29am

JohnDozer wrote:

I'll admit that my stretching and strengthening regime, while improved, is not what it should be. Diet and nutrition, while much improved are not what they should be. And lastly, keeping my runs in the recommended pace zones, while improved, are not what they should be.

Just wanted to add I'd say a lot of people (me especially!) could probably copy and paste these sentences into their own logs. Are you saying the paces are too fast or slow?? If they are too slow them maybe it's your goal that's the issue, and not the plan. If your running too fast - then stop. Especially for the recovery days. I don't think you can run too slowly on these days. Maybe if you sort this out, you might start feeling differently.
The LT sessions are tough though. I've considered maybe entering races and running them at LT pace, but getting through them on your own brings a bit of mental toughness. The 7 mile one is awful.
BTW you were asking about 10k warm up races in October. Did you check out the Croppy Boy 10k in Passage East in Waterford? Fits in with the first 10k tune up race and is on a Saturday. I'm thinking of that and maybe Donadea 2 weeks later.

Marathon Improvers Thread.

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