Covid-19 likely to be man made

04-03-2021 8:07pm

King Mob wrote: »

Remember that we were being told that the death rate of covid (about 1-2%) was not a big deal.

But now we're being told that a possible death rate of 0.00098% is a massive deal?

Or 0.0098%, or 0.098%. See above; we just don't know.

King Mob wrote: »

(This is why conspiracy theorists didn't want to discuss the numbers.)

Conspiracy analysts are usually happy to discuss numbers. No different here.

Dohnjoe · 04-03-2021 10:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Or 0.0098%, or 0.098%. See above; we just don't know.

Tens of thousands trialed vaccines last year, so we do have an idea. If you are suggesting that 0.09% of people "might be" dying due to the vaccine, that means we would have had 600 people dying during a trial of 40k people straight off the bat.

04-03-2021 11:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Or 0.0098%, or 0.098%. See above; we just don't know.

Conspiracy analysts are usually happy to discuss numbers. No different here.

Thank you Dr Frost. It's interesting to get a medical perspective on things.

Timberrrrrrrr · 04-03-2021 11:13pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thank you Dr Frost. It's interesting to get a medical perspective on things.

:pac:

04-03-2021 11:19pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Tens of thousands trialed vaccines last year, so we do have an idea. If you are suggesting that 0.09% of people "might be" dying due to the vaccine, that means we would have had 600 people dying during a trial of 40k people straight off the bat.

0.09% of 40k is 600?

You'd want to fix your calculator, Dohn.

robinph · 04-03-2021 11:40pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

After a brief hiatus, I can now address this point.

We have no idea, obviously, what percentage of deaths and hospitalisations are actually reported to this database. If it's 10%, you can multiply the 656 deaths by 10. If it's only 1%, multiply it by 100. Etc etc.

All of us are only guessing, really, so we'll have to leave it at that. I hope that's the extent of deaths, of course, but can't be proven either way.

Whilst reporting of symptoms due to a vaccine might happen to be stated as only 10%, its because of people being too lazy to report that they had a mild scratch on their arm.

The more severe the symptoms, the more likely it is to be reported. Or are you claiming that there are thousands, or tens of thousand, of people dying but without being included in any statistics?

It is known exactly who has died, and when, and from what cause. It's all recorded on their death certificate, so unless there is a big black hole all these people dying from covid vaccines are falling into then you're talking nonsense.

If someone has died from covid that is recorded, if someone has had a vaccine and still dies from covid that is recorded, if someone dies from an allergic reaction to a vaccine then that is recorded, if someone dies falling off a ladder then that is recorded.

Where are your claims of deaths from vaccines from? Show the numbers if they exist. If the don't exist then it didn't happen.

Number of people with scratchy arms we can only estimate, number of deaths we know exactly.

King Mob · 04-03-2021 11:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Or 0.0098%, or 0.098%. See above; we just don't know.

Well no, this isn't true.
You are claiming that only 10% of deaths are being reported. This is completely ridiculous.
When they say that 10% of symptoms aren't reported they are refering to symptoms like itchy injection sites, sore arms and slight fevers. They are not refering to deaths.
Those other symptoms are something people would just ignore and not bother a doctor with.
They would not ignore a death. It's silly to suggest that.

So unless you can find a source that specifically and clearly states that deaths are underreported by 90% your point doesn't hold.

Additionally the source for this number specific states that the number they are giving is an over reporting. So in reality the actual number of deaths due to the vaccines are far less. Saying that it is 0.0098% is being extremely generous to your silly conspiracy claims.

So even assuming that the deaths are ten times an over reported number and that it's 0.098% (and again for clarity it's not) why is this death rate a cause for concern while the 1% death for covid is not a concern?

Wouldn't lowering the number of deaths a hundred fold (or in reality over a ten thousand fold) be a good thing?
This is the point of my post that you have avoided.

Deleted User wrote: »

Conspiracy analysts are usually happy to discuss numbers. No different here.

Not in my experience.
And you yourself spent a good two or three pages of posts refusing to discuss or provide the numbers until someone else did it for you. You then had a dramatic exit from the forum.

Dohnjoe · 04-03-2021 11:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

0.09% of 40k is 600?

You'd want to fix your calculator, Dohn.

Oops my bad, it's 36. We didn't see that number in the trials.

Dohnjoe · 04-03-2021 11:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thank you Dr Frost. It's interesting to get a medical perspective on things.

Believing stuff on the internet without question, root cause of the problem right there

PintOfView · 05-03-2021 1:33am

Deleted User wrote: »

After a brief hiatus, I can now address this point.

We have no idea, obviously, what percentage of deaths and hospitalisations are actually reported to this database. If it's 10%, you can multiply the 656 deaths by 10. If it's only 1%, multiply it by 100. Etc etc.

All of us are only guessing, really, so we'll have to leave it at that. I hope that's the extent of deaths, of course, but can't be proven either way.

Aren't you dismissing that a bit too fast?

We're not just guessing, this is the CDC web site that someone directed us to in order to show how many people were dying of the vaccine.

However when the numbers were put in context, showing that 656 deaths were reported from 66 million who got the vaccine,
and the CDC site even said that those deaths weren't confirmed to be from the vaccine,
now you try to cast doubt on the numbers!

If you are being honest you can't have it both ways!

In the peak week in December 20,000 people more than normal died in the US. Their yearly deaths are:
2017: 2.75m dead in US (from all causes)
2018: 2.83m
2019: 2.85m
2020: 3.33m

Why did 400,000 people more than normal die last year in the US?
Answer = Covid (is it not?)

How can you then, with any degree of objectivity, start comparing 656 dead, to 400,000 dead,
and somehow try to say that the vaccine might be killing more than covid.
Can you explain your reasoning?

thecretinhop · 10-03-2021 11:50am

brilliant guy on joe rogan there. 90pc sure lab based leak. yeah yeah fake etc.

The Nal · 10-03-2021 2:02pm

thecretinhop wrote: »

brilliant guy on joe rogan there. 90pc sure lab based leak. yeah yeah fake etc.

Jamie Metzl. Very smart guy.

Where does he say hes 90% sure?

26-03-2021 8:12pm

PintOfView wrote: »

How can you then, with any degree of objectivity, start comparing 656 dead, to 400,000 dead,
and somehow try to say that the vaccine might be killing more than covid.
Can you explain your reasoning?

We don't know the exact figures of either, but I never suggested the vaccine was killing more people than Covid.

CSO: The median age of Covid deaths is 83, the same as that for all deaths. 88% of those had underlying conditions.

In other words, Covid is predominantly killing only elderly people with underlying conditions, who, statistically speaking, were close to passing anyway.

The question in the bigger picture is if all of these restrictions, economic consequences, social/mental health fallout etc will of been worth it.

Stay safe, folks.

Dohnjoe · 26-03-2021 8:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

We don't know the exact figures of either, but I never suggested the vaccine was killing more people than Covid.

CSO: The median age of Covid deaths is 83, the same as that for all deaths. 88% of those had underlying conditions.

In other words, Covid is predominantly killing only elderly people with underlying conditions, who, statistically speaking, were close to passing anyway.

The question in the bigger picture is if all of these restrictions, economic consequences, social/mental health fallout etc will of been worth it.

Stay safe, folks.

You believe Covid is a ruse by the NWO to take over the world, or have you dropped that now in favor of watered down Covid denial..

26-03-2021 10:46pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You believe Covid is a ruse by the NWO to take over the world, or have you dropped that now in favor of watered down Covid denial..

Banter aside, you should definitely get the vax, Dohn, being in the vulnerable category. Wouldn't want to lose your ever-present wisdom 'round these parts :pac: 💜

King Mob · 27-03-2021 1:40am

Deleted User wrote: »

We don't know the exact figures of either, but I never suggested the vaccine was killing more people than Covid.

Ok. So now we've established all of the conspiracy theorist scaremongering about the vaccine is false, what's the objection to the vaccine?

Deleted User wrote: »

CSO: The median age of Covid deaths is 83, the same as that for all deaths. 88% of those had underlying conditions.

In other words, Covid is predominantly killing only elderly people with underlying conditions, who, statistically speaking, were close to passing anyway.

The question in the bigger picture is if all of these restrictions, economic consequences, social/mental health fallout etc will of been worth it.

Stay safe, folks.

You're saying that it hasn't been worth it and we should just let old and sick people die.
Ok.

PintOfView · 27-03-2021 2:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

We don't know the exact figures of either, but I never suggested the vaccine was killing more people than Covid.

CSO: The median age of Covid deaths is 83, the same as that for all deaths. 88% of those had underlying conditions.

In other words, Covid is predominantly killing only elderly people with underlying conditions, who, statistically speaking, were close to passing anyway.

The question in the bigger picture is if all of these restrictions, economic consequences, social/mental health fallout etc will of been worth it.

Stay safe, folks.

So are you saying that we should have done the following:
- Made a strategic decision to keep everything running as normal
- Accept that the virus would run through the population unimpeded
- Accept a large death toll, skewed towards the elderly, and towards the vulnerable of all ages
- Accept that hospitals would be overrun until herd immunity arrived (one year? several years?)
- Accept that hospitals would not have the capacity to treat all the other medical conditions that would still require it
- Accept the trauma that all that would impose on the bereaved families, and health care workers, and people in general

How would that be better than what we've had for the last year?

If the vaccines work, and things get back to close to normality by the end of summer, do you not think we will have done the right thing?

LessOutragePlz · 28-03-2021 2:03am

A former CDC director has claimed that the virus could have escaped from a lab in Wuhan.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/03/26/ex-cdc-head-robert-redfield-believes-coronavirus-escaped-chinese-lab-scientists-dubious/7013982002/

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-03-2021 2:05am

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

A former CDC director has claimed that the virus could have escaped from a lab in Wuhan.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/03/26/ex-cdc-head-robert-redfield-believes-coronavirus-escaped-chinese-lab-scientists-dubious/7013982002/

Well that's me convinced :rolleyes:

King Mob · 28-03-2021 4:27am

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

A former CDC director has claimed that the virus could have escaped from a lab in Wuhan.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/03/26/ex-cdc-head-robert-redfield-believes-coronavirus-escaped-chinese-lab-scientists-dubious/7013982002/

What evidence does he present?

Is it just based on his authority?

How come he isn't part of the conspiracy that all other doctors are part of?
Is USA Today also not part of the media conspiracy?

agoodpunt · 28-03-2021 4:49am

And what do you think you know over a former director CDC read the article while not compeling by its simplicity a standout coincidence wuhan also has a Lab that experments with corona virus's

Mod Snip, Disagree respectfully

King Mob · 28-03-2021 4:58am

agoodpunt wrote: »

And what do you think you know over a former director CDC read the article

Just because he's a former head of the CDC doesn't mean he's infallible.
The current head of the CDC doesn't believe that the virus is man made or comes from a lab.

Just because he's a doctor, it doesn't mean that he's infallible.
The vast majority of scientists don't believe the virus is man made or comes from a lab.

So again, what evidence does he present?
Why is he not part of the conspiracy that all other doctors seem to be involved in?

28-03-2021 11:06am

Professor Bret Weinstein and his wife, Professor Heather Heying, were on Bill Maher's programme a few months ago and they touched on the lab hypothesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMGWLLDSA3c

"I said I think in June that the chances it came from the lab looked to me to be about 90%." - Professor Weinstein

LessOutragePlz · 28-03-2021 12:51pm

King Mob wrote: »

What evidence does he present?

Is it just based on his authority?

How come he isn't part of the conspiracy that all other doctors are part of?
Is USA Today also not part of the media conspiracy?

He believes that the reason it so transmissable is because it came from a lab.

"He added: "I do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human. And at that moment in time, the virus came to the human, became one of the most infectious viruses that we know in humanity for human to human transmission. Normally, when a pathogen goes from a zoonotic to human, it takes a while for it to figure out how to become more and more efficient." "

He also states that it's his theory and that there is no evidence for or against it:

"Redfield, a virologist who headed the CDC under President Trump, stressed several times that this is just his opinion, not a proven fact. "I'm allowed to have opinions now," he said. "Most of us in a lab, when trying to grow a virus, we try to help make it grow better, and better, and better, and better, and better, and better so we can do experiments and figure out about it. That's the way I put it together," he said of his theory."

The current CDC director has said the same they can't prove or disprove his hypothesis:

The current CDC director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, said at Friday's briefing that she didn't "have any indication for or against" the hypotheses and that the White House team is "looking forward" to a report from the World Health Organization that "examines the origin of this pandemic and of SARS-CoV-2 in humans."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-lab-theory-robert-redfield-no-evidence/

I don't know what conspiracy your talking about with the media and doctors as I never mentioned anything about that.

I'm just here to discuss the possibility that the virus escaped from a lab.

28-03-2021 1:20pm

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He believes that the reason it so transmissable is because it came from a lab.

"He added: "I do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human. And at that moment in time, the virus came to the human, became one of the most infectious viruses that we know in humanity for human to human transmission. Normally, when a pathogen goes from a zoonotic to human, it takes a while for it to figure out how to become more and more efficient." "

He also states that it's his theory and that there is no evidence for or against it:

"Redfield, a virologist who headed the CDC under President Trump, stressed several times that this is just his opinion, not a proven fact. "I'm allowed to have opinions now," he said. "Most of us in a lab, when trying to grow a virus, we try to help make it grow better, and better, and better, and better, and better, and better so we can do experiments and figure out about it. That's the way I put it together," he said of his theory."

The current CDC director has said the same they can't prove or disprove his hypothesis:

The current CDC director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, said at Friday's briefing that she didn't "have any indication for or against" the hypotheses and that the White House team is "looking forward" to a report from the World Health Organization that "examines the origin of this pandemic and of SARS-CoV-2 in humans."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-lab-theory-robert-redfield-no-evidence/

I don't know what conspiracy your talking about with the media and doctors as I never mentioned anything about that.

I'm just here to discuss the possibility that the virus escaped from a lab.

Thanks for the link.

Professor Bret Weinstein said something similar on the Bill Maher Show:

"There are lots of viruses that can escape from nature and infect people, but in general they don't have a second trick, that is to say they can infect you, they can make you sick, maybe they can kill you, but they can't jump to the next person. And so what's really conspicuous about this virus is that it had both tricks from the get go: it infects people and it jumps from one person to the next with no explanation."

King Mob · 28-03-2021 2:20pm

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He believes that the reason it so transmissable is because it came from a lab.

So he presents no evidence then.

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I don't know what conspiracy your talking about with the media and doctors as I never mentioned anything about that.
.

Several people here have suggested that all doctors and medical institutions including the CDC are involved in a conspiracy to hide the fact the virus was man made.

Do you believe this is the case?

LessOutragePlz · 28-03-2021 2:27pm

King Mob wrote: »

So he presents no evidence then.

There is no evidence to prove that he is correct or incorrect that's why he is suggesting it as a theory. I never claimed it was the truth, I merely stated that it was a possibility according to him.

King Mob wrote: »

Several people here have suggested that all doctors and medical institutions including the CDC are involved in a conspiracy to hide the fact the virus was man made.

Do you believe this is the case?

No.

King Mob · 28-03-2021 2:32pm

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There is no evidence to prove that he is correct or incorrect that's why he is suggesting it as a theory. I never claimed it was the truth, I merely stated that it was a possibility according to him.

There is evidence that supports an animal based origin and there is some evidence against the idea of a lab based origin.
There so far hasn't actually been any solid evidence to support a lab based origin beyond thing like the above with are simple opinion.

The vast majority of people who are suggesting a lab origin in the conspiracy theory context are suggesting the reason for this is that there's a giant global conspiracy to cover up the origin.

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

No.

Ok great.

29-03-2021 7:15pm

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. So now we've established all of the conspiracy theorist scaremongering about the vaccine is false, what's the objection to the vaccine?

MRNA technology has never been used in humans before. There's no long-term safety testing. Moderna have never had a product brought to market for humans before Covid. Yet, here we are rolling out their jab to the world at large. I'm sure you'll understand those who have at least a slight apprehension re: long-term safety/data, when there simply is none. If something is to go wrong with this new technology down the line, that's a lot of people in trouble.

Further, the pharmaceutical companies have indemnity. Governments have taken on the responsibility. If things go awry, the taxpayer will effectively be suing themselves.

I've had many vaxxes in the past, but will be giving this one a miss. I obviously hope nothing goes wrong in the mid-longer term, but we're in unchartered waters moving forward.

King Mob wrote: »

You're saying that it hasn't been worth it and we should just let old and sick people die.
Ok.

Never said that. Simply stated the median age of Covid deaths is the same as that for all deaths. Vast majority have underlying conditions. Take it up with the CSO if you want to dispute their statistics.

robinph · 29-03-2021 7:27pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

MRNA technology has never been used in humans before. There's no long-term safety testing. Moderna have never had a product brought to market for humans before Covid. Yet, here we are rolling out their jab to the world at large. I'm sure you'll understand those who have at least a slight apprehension re: long-term safety/data, when there simply is none. If something is to go wrong with this new technology down the line, that's a lot of people in trouble.

Further, the pharmaceutical companies have indemnity. Governments have taken on the responsibility. If things go awry, the taxpayer will effectively be suing themselves.

I've had many vaxxes in the past, but will be giving this one a miss. I obviously hope nothing goes wrong in the mid-longer term, but we're in unchartered waters moving forward.

Never said that. Simply stated the median age of Covid deaths is the same as that for all deaths. Vast majority have underlying conditions. Take it up with the CSO if you want to dispute their statistics.

So is it only Pfizer and Moderna that are in on the conspiracy to release the virus from the lab then?

How come the other vaccine manufacturers haven't said anything about this as they would surely be in a better position than anyone to see what needs to be seen regarding if it was man made or not. Would think it would be pretty good for the other vaccine companies if they could show their arch enemies were behind it all.

Strange that they haven't done that though don't you think?

29-03-2021 9:11pm

robinph wrote: »

So is it only Pfizer and Moderna that are in on the conspiracy to release the virus from the lab then?

How come the other vaccine manufacturers haven't said anything about this as they would surely be in a better position than anyone to see what needs to be seen regarding if it was man made or not. Would think it would be pretty good for the other vaccine companies if they could show their arch enemies were behind it all.

Strange that they haven't done that though don't you think?

My post was a response to Mob asking "what's the objection to the vaccine?". Was nothing to do with what you're talking about.

robinph · 29-03-2021 11:01pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My post was a response to Mob asking "what's the objection to the vaccine?". Was nothing to do with what you're talking about.

Are you aware of the title of the thread?

King Mob · 29-03-2021 11:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

MRNA technology has never been used in humans before. There's no long-term safety testing. Moderna have never had a product brought to market for humans before Covid. Yet, here we are rolling out their jab to the world at large. I'm sure you'll understand those who have at least a slight apprehension re: long-term safety/data, when there simply is none. If something is to go wrong with this new technology down the line, that's a lot of people in trouble.

Further, the pharmaceutical companies have indemnity. Governments have taken on the responsibility. If things go awry, the taxpayer will effectively be suing themselves.

Ok.
So specifically what long term effects are you concerned about?
What long term effects are possible?
Or is it just a completely vague and baseless fear?

Deleted User wrote: »

I've had many vaxxes in the past, but will be giving this one a miss. I obviously hope nothing goes wrong in the mid-longer term, but we're in unchartered waters moving forward.

And how do you know that there's no long term effects from covid?

Deleted User wrote: »

Never said that. Simply stated the median age of Covid deaths is the same as that for all deaths. Vast majority have underlying conditions. Take it up with the CSO if you want to dispute their statistics.

Then why is the median age of covid deaths relevant to you?

31-03-2021 1:01am

robinph wrote: »

Are you aware of the title of the thread?

Yes, I am. However, I was simply answering the man's question. Doesn't explain why you would ramble on about something else in response. I initially thought you were replying to someone else, and had quoted me accidentally.

You need to actually read posts before jumping in. I recall you having trouble with this in the past as well.

King Mob · 31-03-2021 1:05am

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, I am. However, I was simply answering the man's question. Doesn't explain why you would ramble on about something else in response. I initially thought you were replying to someone else, and had quoted me accidentally.

You need to actually read posts before jumping in. I recall you having trouble with this in the past as well.

So to be clear, you agree that covid is likely not man made?
And you agree that the idea that the virus was specifically man made and released on purpose for some nefarious reason is false?

31-03-2021 1:42am

King Mob wrote: »

So to be clear, you agree that covid is likely not man made?
And you agree that the idea that the virus was specifically man made and released on purpose for some nefarious reason is false?

You need to stop with the "so to be clear, you agree..." type stuff. It's blatant projection of your own beliefs onto others.

I would agree with WHO advisor Jamie Metzl on the matter:

“It seems kind of likely that [if] you have a Chinese lab studying a dangerous virus, and you have a very similar virus that leaps out right next to one of the labs, you could logically…put two and two together.”

https://news.yahoo.com/adviser-says-likely-coronavirus-leaked-200153962.html

From 10.50 to 11.40 on Joe Rogan podcast:

"What are the chances that patient zero, from the series of animal to animal to human trasmissions.. just so happens to show up in Wuhan, which is the only city in China with a Level 4 Virology Institute, that has the world's largest collection of bat coronaviruses... that is doing gain of function research trying to make those viruses more virulent. Particularly by making them more able to infect human cells. So in my mind, if patient zero is just somebody who had an exposure to an animal, the mathematical odds of that person just showing up in Wuhan would be actually... kind of absurd."

Do you believe these absurdities, Mob? Do you still believe, considering the above, that it is not manmade? If so, why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIXKJXsiBFc

King Mob · 31-03-2021 2:18am

Deleted User wrote: »

You need to stop with the "so to be clear, you agree..." type stuff. It's blatant projection of your own beliefs onto others.

No not really, I don't believe these things, so not sure how they can be "my own beliefs".
Similarly, it's not "projection." I'm simply asking you to clarify your position. Both of these claims have been claimed here by your fellow conspiracy theorists and they are they options relevant to your objection to robinph's post.
Typically I find that conspiracy theorists like yourself don't like to be specific and succinct when asked to state their positon.

Deleted User wrote: »

I would agree with WHO advisor Jamie Metzl on the matter:

Ok. You believe that the virus is likely to have been altered.

Do you believe that it was altered on purpose to be released as part of a conspiracy to engineer a global pandemic?

In both cases, do you believe that the vaccine manufacturers are aware of the true origin of the virus?

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you believe these absurdities, Mob? If so, why?

No. I obviously don't.
I don't believe that there is any evidence to show the virus is in any way man made, and there's some evidence that it is not.
I don't believe it was released deliberately as part of a global conspiracy.

Any chance you'll be going back to address my questions in my previous post?

31-03-2021 2:52am

King Mob wrote: »

No not really, I don't believe these things, so not sure how they can be "my own beliefs".
Similarly, it's not "projection." I'm simply asking you to clarify your position.

I never said I didn't believe it was manmade, or anything of the sort, so why would you say "so to be clear, you agree that Covid is likely not manmade..."? It's the equivalent of putting words in one's mouth. You believe the official story, so I can only assume it was a form of projection.

King Mob wrote: »

Both of these claims have been claimed here by your fellow conspiracy theorists and they are they options relevant to your objection to robinph's post.
Typically I find that conspiracy theorists like yourself don't like to be specific and succinct when asked to state their positon.

I can't speak for others; they may have similar or different opinions to me. We don't all have to share the same viewpoints. Remember, it's conspiracy theories. That's the point: discuss theories. You're talking as if you expect every single person who doesn't believe the official story to come on here and all agree in unison on every detail. Not realistic.

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. You believe that the virus is likely to have been altered.

And you believe that a virus which broke out in Wuhan, where a lab that was actively altering coronaviruses to make them more able to infect human cells, was not likely to be altered? Ok.

I would agree with the WHO advisor on this. Logic would suggest it's certainly possible the virus was altered.

King Mob wrote: »

Do you believe that it was altered on purpose to be released as part of a conspiracy to engineer a global pandemic?

I'm not sure re: this. We'll probably never know for sure.

King Mob wrote: »

In both cases, do you believe that the vaccine manufacturers are aware of the true origin of the virus?

I don't know. Their job is to make the vaccines for the virus, not worry about it's origins.

King Mob wrote: »

Any chance you'll be going back to address my questions in my previous post?

I will go back and look tomorrow. Or next year. But I shall answer

King Mob · 31-03-2021 3:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

I never said I didn't believe it was manmade, or anything of the sort, so why would you say "so to be clear, you agree that Covid is likely not manmade..."? It's the equivalent of putting words in one's mouth. You believe the official story, so I can only assume it was a form of projection.

I asked if that's what you believe. That's what a question mark is for.
I'm sure you'd also be upset if I asked it the other way around.

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't speak for others; they may have similar or different opinions to me. We don't all have to share the same viewpoints. Remember, it's conspiracy theories. That's the point: discuss theories. You're talking as if you expect every single person who doesn't believe the official story to come on here and all agree in unison on every detail. Not realistic.

But if any of the theories were true and based on any kind of reason or evidence, they would converge towards a single truth.
If they were just fantasy and based on imagination, they would diverge and form many different ideas.

Also, a lot of these conspiracy theories are contradictory and incompatible. It can't be both a secret plan to release the virus to cause a fake pandemic and also an accidental release of the man-made virus that's being covered up.

Deleted User wrote: »

And you believe that a virus which broke out in Wuhan, where a lab that was actively altering coronaviruses to make them more able to infect human cells, was not likely to be altered? Ok.

Lol. That's not what I said or what my position is. What was that about putting words in people's mouths?

Deleted User wrote: »

I would agree with the WHO advisor on this. Logic would suggest it's certainly possible the virus was altered.

Ok. What evidence does he provide to the respected academic journal of "Joe Rogan's Podcast"?

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure re: this. It's certainly possible. We'll probably never know for sure.

No, I don't think such a thing is possible and relies on a lot of fantasy thinking about how a global conspiracy could work. It's no more possible that a global conspiracy to convince people the world is round.

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know. Their job is to make the vaccines for the virus, not worry about it's origins.

This is a silly thing to claim. To develop vaccines, they would have to look into the virus extensively. Specifically for the new mRNA vaccines, they would be looking at the genetics of the virus in extreme detail.
You are suggesting that during all of this, they did not notice any sign that would indicate the virus is man made. So either they are incompetent to the extreme, since conspiracy theorists with no training or education in virology could already tell the virus was man made, or the evidence of it being man made is undetectable, which is contradictory as again conspiracy theorists have already detected this.

Deleted User wrote: »

I will go back and look tomorrow. Or next year. But I shall answer

No, you won't. You'll continue to ignore them I think. They are too hard for you to address without exposing the gaping holes in your position.

King Mob · 31-03-2021 3:47am

You're once again dodging points that you can't address.

Deleted User wrote: »

Btw, you're absolutely OBSESSED with the whole 'flat earth' thing. You're constantly bringing it up in different posts D

I bring it up because it's an apt comparison to many of the conspiracy theories you and others subscribe to.
It relies on the same kind of logic and assumptions you guys use. For example, to believe (or even entertain) that the covid pandemic is manufactured, you have to believe that all governments and organisations and scientists must all be involved with a singular conspiracy that is kept nearly perfectly secret. The same is so for the Flat Earth theory.

You realise that the Flat Earth theory is bare faced nonsense, yet you don't want to apply the same skepticism to conspiracy theories you prefer.

ShatterAlan · 31-03-2021 3:58am

Just watching Panaroma right now.

They are just losing samples and it looks likes Mcdonalds workers in charge of determining whether you are positive or negative.

31-03-2021 4:04am

King Mob wrote: »

For example, to believe (or even entertain) that the covid pandemic is manufactured, you have to believe that all governments and organisations and scientists must all be involved with a singular conspiracy that is kept nearly perfectly secret. The same is so for the Flat Earth theory.

Not at all. A small number of people leaking a virus from a lab doesn't require the knowledge or agreement of "all governments and organisations and scientists". The virus is out there. Governments/organisations/scientists now have to deal with it. Why would they all have to be in on it from the start? That's a silly statement.

Anyway, how about a magic trick? I'm gonna make myself disappear... to bed. Goodnight, Mob. Legend. We'll talk again.

lucernarian · 31-03-2021 4:10am

King Mob wrote: »

You're once again dodging points that you can't address.

I bring it up because it's an apt comparison to many of the conspiracy theories you and others subscribe to.
It relies on the same kind of logic and assumptions you guys use. For example, to believe (or even entertain) that the covid pandemic is manufactured, you have to believe that all governments and organisations and scientists must all be involved with a singular conspiracy that is kept nearly perfectly secret. The same is so for the Flat Earth theory.

You realise that the Flat Earth theory is bare faced nonsense, yet you don't want to apply the same skepticism to conspiracy theories you prefer.

Honestly, the multi quote replying is tedious and counterproductive if you want to discuss something in earnest.

Equating the flat earth theory with a general lab-origjn hypothesis for the virus is absolutely bonkers btw, one is a fanciful myth that seems to be more of a meme than a credible position anyone holds, the other is a hypothesis that experts in the field state is a distinct possibility. This extends to the head of the WHO and several leading media and (western) governments and experts.

Are such red herrings and false equivalencies even allowed under the charter for this forum?

31-03-2021 4:12am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Just watching Panaroma right now.

They are just losing samples and it looks likes Mcdonalds workers in charge of determining whether you are positive or negative.

I saw a clip of that earlier. Whole thing is a shambles.

Anyway, vaxx passports etc about to be rolled out, if they can push it through. "Vaccine bonuses" from Micheal Martin to start the coercion. All predicted way back last year. Follow the big money investments behind the scenes to see the future. Vaxx passports will facilitate the digital ID system and everything else which will follow.

Can't wait :pac:

31-03-2021 4:13am

lucernarian wrote: »

Equating the flat earth theory with a general lab-origjn hypothesis for the virus is absolutely bonkers btw, one is a fanciful myth that seems to be more of a meme than a credible position anyone holds, the other is a hypothesis that experts in the field state is a distinct possibility. This extends to the head of the WHO and several leading media and (western) governments and experts.

Exactly. Costs Mob a lot of credibility bringing up the same nonsensical comparisons continuously.

lucernarian wrote: »

Are such red herrings and false equivalencies even allowed under the charter for this forum?

Good point. Maybe the mods can advise further on this? Happening all the time.

lucernarian · 31-03-2021 4:19am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I saw a clip of that earlier. Whole thing is a shambles.

Anyway, vaxx passports etc about to be rolled out, if they can push it through. "Vaccine bonuses" from Micheal Martin to start the coercion. All predicted way back last year. Follow the big money investments behind the scenes to see the future. Vaxx passports will facilitate the digital ID system and everything else which will follow.

Can't wait :pac:

Quite a few leaps of logic in that. I don't need a crystal ball to see that most governments and their populations will do pretty much whatever it takes to overcome this current situation. I'm not sure of the benefits of a "passport" of immunity, though it has precedent e.g. for the Hepatitis B vaccine. Digital IDs are not needed or required for a vaccine rollout btw.

King Mob · 31-03-2021 4:23am

Deleted User wrote: »

Not at all. A small number of people leaking a virus from a lab doesn't require the knowledge or agreement of "all governments and organisations and scientists". The virus is out there. Governments/organisations/scientists now have to deal with it. Why would they all have to be in on it from the start? That's a silly statement.
.

lucernarian wrote: »

Equating the flat earth theory with a general lab-origjn hypothesis for the virus is absolutely bonkers btw, one is a fanciful myth that seems to be more of a meme than a credible position anyone holds, the other is a hypothesis that experts in the field state is a distinct possibility. This extends to the head of the WHO and several leading media and (western) governments and experts.

But here, you both are not accurately representing what I actually said.
I did not say that believing in a solely a lab-origin was equivalent to believing a flat earth.

I said:

"to believe (or even entertain) that the covid pandemic is manufactured".

And the original point was:

Do you believe that it was altered on purpose to be released as part of a conspiracy to engineer a global pandemic?

Several theorists here have suggested that the pandemic is fake, and that all governments and scientific organisations are involved.

31-03-2021 4:26am

lucernarian wrote: »

Digital IDs are not needed or required for a vaccine rollout btw.

They're not. But they will facilitate it amongst other things into one integrated system. Gates talked about it at the very start of the pandemic. See his ID 2020 project. He's been on the money with nearly everything so far, so I'll believe him on this.

lucernarian · 31-03-2021 4:29am

King Mob wrote: »

But here, you both are not accurately representing what I actually said.
I did not say that believing in a solely a lab-origin was equivalent to believing a flat earth.

I said:
And the original point was:

Several theorists here have suggested that the pandemic is fake, and that all governments and scientific organisations are involved.

You literally described it as an apt comparison...

31-03-2021 4:32am

King Mob wrote: »

But here, you both are not accurately representing what I actually said.
I did not say that believing in a solely a lab-origin was equivalent to believing a flat earth.

I said:
And the original point was:

Several theorists here have suggested that the pandemic is fake, and that all governments and scientific organisations are involved.

You're backtracking now. You said:

King Mob wrote: »

For example, to believe (or even entertain) that the covid pandemic is manufactured, you have to believe that all governments and organisations and scientists must all be involved with a singular conspiracy that is kept nearly perfectly secret. The same is so for the Flat Earth theory.

You're always banging on about Flat Earth theory and using it as a comparison to every conspiracy theory in an attempt to derail. It's ridiculous and doesn't work, mate, so do yourself a favour and stop doing it :pac:

Covid-19 likely to be man made

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