Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

shootermacg · 01-08-2020 12:32pm

OneLungDavy wrote: »

I remember himself and Toner clattering Curry. What minute did he hit Itoje?

Buer · 01-08-2020 12:40pm

shootermacg wrote: »

The peoples' elbow he delivered to Itoje was definitely a citing issue. Wonder how it was never picked up? The physicality of that game was off the charts.

I'd consider that handbags and a bit of off the ball messing without a huge amount of impact. He had a couple of clear outs where he launched himself in like a missile with little attempt to bind and made contact very high on the opponent.

shootermacg · 01-08-2020 12:47pm

One thing that game showed up was Ireland's inability to adapt. The english rush defense was galloping up because every ruck resulted in Murray passing to 10/12.

France on the other hand sent runners each side of the ruck all day along with a pick and drive tactic. I think the more direct route is England's soft spot.

Paul Smeenus · 01-08-2020 1:00pm

Buer wrote: »

I'd consider that handbags and a bit of off the ball messing without a huge amount of impact. He had a couple of clear outs where he launched himself in like a missile with little attempt to bind and made contact very high on the opponent.

I thought at least one of his clear outs was a red card. But he got away with it. If it happens again, he might not be so lucky.

shootermacg · 01-08-2020 1:03pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I thought at least one of his clear outs was a red card. But he got away with it. If it happens again, he might not be so lucky.

There are a few from England too.

clsmooth · 01-08-2020 1:18pm

shootermacg wrote: »

https://youtu.be/cFOvl98oq2I?t=1655

Nothing in that. Itoje will do that all day long. He gets away with murder somehow. Let him know you’re not taking it and he’ll think twice next time. I remember in the Champions Cup Final he had Ryan’s jersey half off over his head at one stage and Ryan was just looking for help from the referee which wasn’t coming. I’m sure someone had a word and said if someone does that to you again, you sort it out yourself (within reason). At the end of the day they’re committing the foul play and you’re just trying to get away so you’ll get a little bit of leniency shown. No one including the ref likes sh1t housery.

Paul Smeenus · 01-08-2020 1:22pm

clsmooth wrote: »

Nothing in that. Itoje will do that all day long. He gets away with murder somehow. Let him know you’re not taking it and he’ll think twice next time. I remember in the Champions Cup Final he had Ryan’s jersey half off over his head at one stage and Ryan was just looking for help from the referee which wasn’t coming. I’m sure someone had a word and said if someone does that to you again, you sort it out yourself (within reason). At the end of the day they’re committing the foul play and you’re just trying to get away so you’ll get a little bit of leniency shown. No one including the ref likes sh1t housery.

Itoje is the player that actually makes me wish we still had Neil Best to call on. I doubt Maro would try to pin him down after a ruck more than once.

Clegg · 01-08-2020 1:32pm

clsmooth wrote: »

Completely agree. He had a few no arms clear outs which he was lucky to escape a citing for. That said, I liked seeing that nasty edge in him. We’ve been comparatively powderpuff up front since 2018 for some reason when previous to that we were one of the best packs in the world for a few years. Missing abrasive backrows like SOB and Leavy obviously wouldn’t have helped. Hopefully with a better balanced back row we can right that.

Unfortunately SOB wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to that game. He doesn't have the incredible athleticism that made him one of the world's best players. Best example I can give is last years Champions Cup final against Saracens. Couldn't make a dent in their defence, nor was he able to stem the flow of their attack either.

shootermacg · 01-08-2020 1:36pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Itoje is the player that actually makes me wish we still had Neil Best to call on. I doubt Maro would try to pin him down after a ruck more than once.

TBF is Maro was on your team he'd be your favorite player!

Paul Smeenus · 01-08-2020 1:40pm

shootermacg wrote: »

TBF is Maro was on your team he'd be your favorite player!

100%

shootermacg · 01-08-2020 2:05pm

Ireland had approx 79% in territory and 76% possession in the second half, maybe it was England taking their foot off, but who knows if it wasn't for those two fumbles. It was also an away game, so.

Dunney848 · 02-08-2020 1:29pm

shootermacg wrote: »

Watching back the Ireland/England 6N game. My god! Ryan and Stander were incredible! I knew CJ had a vicious streak, but Ryan takes zero prisoners! I think we made some terrible mistakes in that game, but our main mistake was a lack of a pick and drive to narrow the defense.

If we had a team full of Ryan’s we might have won that game. You have to match the English at their own game to beat them. Wales also nearly beat them in Twickenham by running them around and varying point of attack but they stood up to them also. If you let the Rnglish dictate terms of contact you will lose against them.

clsmooth · 02-08-2020 10:07pm

Clegg wrote: »

Unfortunately SOB wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to that game. He doesn't have the incredible athleticism that made him one of the world's best players. Best example I can give is last years Champions Cup final against Saracens. Couldn't make a dent in their defence, nor was he able to stem the flow of their attack either.

Completely agree, think we’ve really missed the physicality we had from 2011-2017 with SOB and 2018 with Leavy. Tough players. That said one player isn’t going to magically change everything but Stander needs some support in the back row.

Dunney848 · 02-08-2020 10:52pm

clsmooth wrote: »

Completely agree, think we’ve really missed the physicality we had from 2011-2017 with SOB and 2018 with Leavy. Tough players. That said one player isn’t going to magically change everything but Stander needs some support in the back row.

Stander is a player I have always had an awful lot of time for but I think he’s too one dimensional and that doesn’t work against England. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Doris perhaps come to the fore in next years six nations or maybe a resurgence of Conan if he puts in a European campaign. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If Farrell has any sense he will change things up for England next season although I will be gutted for CJ because he’s such a good attitude.

03-08-2020 12:37am

shootermacg wrote: »

Ireland had approx 79% in territory and 76% possession in the second half, maybe it was England taking their foot off, but who knows if it wasn't for those two fumbles. It was also an away game, so.

Similarly we beat them pretty easily in 2018 when a few bounces of the ball went our way

Shefwedfan · 03-08-2020 9:13am

Dunney848 wrote: »

Stander is a player I have always had an awful lot of time for but I think he’s too one dimensional and that doesn’t work against England. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Doris perhaps come to the fore in next years six nations or maybe a resurgence of Conan if he puts in a European campaign. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If Farrell has any sense he will change things up for England next season although I will be gutted for CJ because he’s such a good attitude.

I might have posted since the 6 nations in 2019 and since our back row is the biggest issue. A combination of Standar/ VDF/ POM does not work, they had made a start to change it up for Scotland match but then reverted to the same back row

Against the inferior Scotland and out of form Wales it wasn’t shown up but against the better teams we get hammered

clsmooth · 03-08-2020 10:58am

Stander was by far was our best back row (and player if memory serves me) in the 6N. Maybe him at 6, with Doris at 8 and VDF or Leavy (if he can get back in with Leinster first) at 7 is worth a rattle. I still feel POM is the odd man out at the moment. Wouldn’t bet against him forcing his way back into the team if he was sat out for a few games though.

OneLungDavy · 03-08-2020 11:48am

Anyone think Stander could be effective at 7? He has the pace for it and I think having him attacking in the wider channels might suit him, rather than trying to run into big forwards all day.

Then take your pick from Dorris, POM, Conan, Beirne for 6 and 8. Assuming Leavy isn't up to speed.

bilston · 03-08-2020 11:50am

clsmooth wrote: »

Stander was by far was our best back row (and player if memory serves me) in the 6N. Maybe him at 6, with Doris at 8 and VDF or Leavy (if he can get back in with Leinster first) at 7 is worth a rattle. I still feel POM is the odd man out at the moment. Wouldn’t bet against him forcing his way back into the team if he was sat out for a few games though.

Stander, Leavy, Doris is ultimately what I'd like to see us get to. That could be our back row for the next two or three years. But we have to see how Leavy does after his injury, he will have been out for 17 months by the time Leinster play Munster.

clsmooth · 03-08-2020 12:06pm

bilston wrote: »

Stander, Leavy, Doris is ultimately what I'd like to see us get to. That could be our back row for the next two or three years. But we have to see how Leavy does after his injury, he will have been out for 17 months by the time Leinster play Munster.

True, Leavy’s first challenge is getting back to first choice for Leinster. Plenty of quality competition there. If he can do that, he’s back in the picture. We can’t expect him to be competing for an Irish position just yet. Quite like the sound of that potential back row though. We’re quite thin on 7s. VDF and POM at a push for now.

Cookiemunster · 05-08-2020 1:53pm

6N fixtures confirmed for Oct 24th and 31st. https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2020/08/05/date-for-guinness-six-nations-2020-restart-announced/

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 05-08-2020 2:05pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

6N fixtures confirmed for Oct 24th and 31st. https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2020/08/05/date-for-guinness-six-nations-2020-restart-announced/

All original tickets invalidated by the way.

PTH2009 · 05-08-2020 8:05pm

Feels like an age since that England game in February

Unbelievably were still in with a chance of winning the title, 2 BP wins

Shefwedfan · 05-08-2020 9:55pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Feels like an age since that England game in February

Unbelievably were still in with a chance of winning the title, 2 BP wins

People forget that in 2019 we had a chance to win the 6 nations had we beaten Wales....

shootermacg · 05-08-2020 10:54pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Feels like an age since that England game in February

Unbelievably were still in with a chance of winning the title, 2 BP wins

France are not going to be pushovers. Their attack is very very good, their nine ten combo are really good and Shaun Edwards is the defense coach.

Thrashssacre · 06-08-2020 10:16am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Feels like an age since that England game in February

Unbelievably were still in with a chance of winning the title, 2 BP wins

One bonus point win we should have them bested in points difference

Former Former · 06-08-2020 2:23pm

Thrashssacre wrote: »

One bonus point win we should have them bested in points difference

Based on February's form, you'd back England to rack up more of a score on Italy than we will, so we likely will need two BP wins, or at least a fairly convincing non-BP win over France.

The good thing is that we'll know exactly what we need from the France game before it kicks off. Just need to get our sh1t together first.

molloyjh · 06-08-2020 5:17pm

Former Former wrote: »

Based on February's form, you'd back England to rack up more of a score on Italy than we will, so we likely will need two BP wins, or at least a fairly convincing non-BP win over France.

The good thing is that we'll know exactly what we need from the France game before it kicks off. Just need to get our sh1t together first.

I reckon with the provincial schedules as they are, Ireland will have a hard time getting back into the flow of it. Things will be easier on more settled teams like England. At this stage this stuff is about recouping lost income more than the actual sporting competition itself so I'm not sure how much it really matters*.

* I retain the right to utterly change my opinion on this should Ireland actually win the 6Ns.

PMC83 · 11-08-2020 2:01pm

Ruaidhri O'Connor saying on OTB that he reckons we'll be seeing plenty of new caps in the coming months.

Lowe being the obvious one, who else could we be seeing?

salmocab · 11-08-2020 2:06pm

PMC83 wrote: »

Ruaidhri O'Connor saying on OTB that he reckons we'll be seeing plenty of new caps in the coming months.

Lowe being the obvious one, who else could we be seeing?

I’d say maybe there will be some young guns leap frog in, there’s quite a few games coming up with plenty of time for someone like Ryan Baird to get a cap that hasn’t quite been earned as it might in a normal season.

PMC83 · 11-08-2020 2:08pm

salmocab wrote: »

I’d say maybe there will be some young guns leap frog in, there’s quite a few games coming up with plenty of time for someone like Ryan Baird to get a cap that hasn’t quite been earned as it might in a normal season.

Hes a good call, Tom Farrell? he was in camp before.

aloooof · 11-08-2020 2:11pm

PMC83 wrote: »

Ruaidhri O'Connor saying on OTB that he reckons we'll be seeing plenty of new caps in the coming months.

Lowe being the obvious one, who else could we be seeing?

I'd guess Deegan, Gibson-Park, Baird, Baloucoune, Fineen Wycherly, Goggin, Blade could be in the mix?

PMC83 · 11-08-2020 2:15pm

aloooof wrote: »

I'd guess Deegan, Gibson-Park, Baird, Baloucoune, Fineen Wycherly, Goggin, Blade could be in the mix?

Dunno would we see both Gibson-Park and Blade? Both good enough but we are pretty stacked I think. Would prefer to see Cooney move into the top spot if anything

aloooof · 11-08-2020 2:18pm

PMC83 wrote: »

Dunno would we see both Gibson-Park and Blade? Both good enough but we are pretty stacked I think. Would prefer to see Cooney move into the top spot if anything

Good point, alright. Injuries as well will likely play a part too. I think Ryan and Henderson are both due to be back, but something like 2 starters in the one position being injured could mean a great opportunity for someone like Baird.

Clegg · 11-08-2020 2:26pm

aloooof wrote: »

I'd guess Deegan, Gibson-Park, Baird, Baloucoune, Fineen Wycherly, Goggin, Blade could be in the mix?

Deegan has already been capped. And in light of Carbery's continued injury woes we might see a new 10 get a run out. Burns at Ulster is Irish qualified and maybe Harry Byrne or Ciaran Frawley will make extended squads.

theboss80 · 11-08-2020 2:30pm

PMC83 wrote: »

Ruaidhri O'Connor saying on OTB that he reckons

I'll stop ya there....:pac:

It was a conversation starter from him to big up Lowe

OTB has a very definite formula for about the last year in terms of how they want to talk about certain topics particularly the national team and who they see being brought into it.

PMC83 · 11-08-2020 2:32pm

theboss80 wrote: »

I'll stop ya there....:pac:

It was a conversation starter from him to big up Lowe

OTB has a very definite formula for about the last year in terms of how they want to talk about certain topics particularly the national team and who they see being brought into it.

I'll keep going regardless. Cos its fun.

Madigan?!

theboss80 · 11-08-2020 2:47pm

PMC83 wrote: »

I'll keep going regardless. Cos its fun.

Madigan?!

My opinion would be he would need to play his way back into the squad. This year might be too early for him but if the new season starts well we could see him in contention next Feb.

Remember also he will need to be preforming as well as Sexton, Carbery and Byrne to be considered and even then he could be in same position as JJ where he is playing alot for province but country selection doesn't have the trust in you to start. He'll be involved with national training squads but I think his ship may have sailed unless there is an injury crisis.

Niallof9 · 11-08-2020 2:50pm

If we don't throw caution to the wind this year then we never will. Hopefully the time off has given andy space to assess and get comfortable. We need a full reboot from the last 12 months imo. Maybe Murray rediscovers his form etc. Lowe is a no brainer. baird as well.

Clegg · 11-08-2020 2:53pm

PMC83 wrote: »

Hes a good call, Tom Farrell? he was in camp before.

Tom Farrell's issue is that we've plenty of good 13's already in place. Ringrose is first choice and in the event of injury we have Henshaw, who played very well against Wales this 6N, and Chris Farrell after that. Not saying that he'll never get a look in, but rather that outside centre is a position we've plenty of depth in. That's not the case with flyhalf, wing or second row.

Former Former · 11-08-2020 3:17pm

With six games in seven weeks, I'd expect a 45-man squad and probably most of them to see game time at some point. Who gets a shot probably depends on who's injured and who's deemed past it.

Hopefully the chances go to younger guys with more potential than mid-range guys who are never going to be test class.

Dog Botherer · 11-08-2020 3:41pm

Madigan is an interesting one as he covers 3 positions well and is a high percentage goalkicker. If he rediscovers his old Leinster form he could easily fill the Steyn bench role should Farrell wish to experiment with a 6/2 split.

thomond2006 · 11-08-2020 3:49pm

Madigan's "old Leinster form" couldn't get him a consistent starting role there and his career has fallen away since then. There's little to no chance of him getting capped again outside of a crazy injury crisis.

Clegg · 11-08-2020 3:50pm

Hooker is a major problem area. Rob Herring is the incumbent, but he's only ok at test level. The next senior option is Niall Scannell, but he's just ok as well. Ronan Kelleher is the great hope now, but he's just 22 years old and in his first full season of rugby. Cupboards seem a bit bare.

Dog Botherer · 11-08-2020 3:55pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Madigan's "old Leinster form" couldn't get him a consistent starting role there and his career has fallen away since then. There's little to no chance of him getting capped again outside of a crazy injury crisis.

he wouldn’t be looking for a consistent starting spot. Steyn wasn’t exactly blowing people away with his form before the WC and was mostly used as a break glass in case of emergency. Madigan has obviously been crap for a while now but that doesn’t mean he can’t turn that around.

before this turns into a whole thing I am not advocating for dropping Carbery for Madigan or some other nonsense. just positing an idea that Farrell could play with should Madigan perform well in the interpros.

PMC83 · 11-08-2020 3:58pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Madigan's "old Leinster form" couldn't get him a consistent starting role there and his career has fallen away since then. There's little to no chance of him getting capped again outside of a crazy injury crisis.

I agree but we're not exactly spoiled with choices. Johnny and Joey have high enough injury profiles. Its easy enough to see a situation where they are both out. Then we have the two Byrnes, Billy Burns and Carty.All low to no caps. If Madigan finds form we could yet see him back.

clsmooth · 11-08-2020 3:58pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

If we don't throw caution to the wind this year then we never will. Hopefully the time off has given andy space to assess and get comfortable. We need a full reboot from the last 12 months imo. Maybe Murray rediscovers his form etc. Lowe is a no brainer. baird as well.

I don’t think Baird is a no brainier just yet. He’s got a great chance to put himself in the mix over the next month or two though.

aloooof · 11-08-2020 4:04pm

I really don't see Madigan picking up any more caps (during this window or otherwise) tbh. His first job is to get ahead of Burns at provincial level. We don't know if he'll even manage that yet, let alone get near international level.

11-08-2020 4:28pm

aloooof wrote: »

I really don't see Madigan picking up any more caps (during this window or otherwise) tbh. His first job is to get ahead of Burns at provincial level. We don't know if he'll even manage that yet, let alone get near international level.

I'm not sure what I'm looking forward to more - Madigan getting picked for Ireland, or awec having to defend the selection :pac:

Paul Smeenus · 11-08-2020 4:39pm

Burns and O'Toole were full squad members who could have seen some game versus Italy. Whether they will now, with all the disruption, is another matter. But if be surprised if one or both of them aren't new caps in thid upcoming run of games.

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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